Re: Why all the interest in FFP scopes?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The part about FFP being dropped came from early scope literature anouncing new scopes that featured reticules that remained constant in size and stayed centered when adjusted. When I was younger I asked my dad about it and he said in the 40's when he bought his first scope he fought problems like fogging, off center reticals and later on reticals that got smaller as you dial them down. This is where that shit came from.
The point of this thread?
Sure, I have no real agenda but I do have an opinion about them based on my knowledge of them so far. I started the thread to find out more.
Do most of the people on here really need one or did they buy it because someone they respected use one? The reason I ask is I want to know the real answer. Are the majority of posters here for real operators that kill people regularly? I'm not, but am interested in long range shooting so some of the technology is shared. That is why I am here. To learn from those that know more.
Some of the guys in the group I shoot with has tried them and switched back to 2nd focal for the reason I threw out above. I looked through one of the new Leupolds I sold and thought, well if that's what he wants and let him have it. He had no need for it but read about it and wanted to try it. No problem with that I guess. I don't have anything against them other than cost and having one would make very little difference to me as I almost never turn my scope below 25 power. If they (squirrels or steel gongs) get that close I have my Glock 20 at the ready. I'm no sniper but I have friends that are or were and they dislike them for the reasons I said. On the lower powers they were hard to see especially in a low light situation when one would be dialed down. I know the good ones are lit up but we don't hunt or shoot after dark it so it is just another thing to go wrong and drives the cost up.
My closest 10” gong at 500 yards would barely be visible in that and using the retical to hold 9 MOA correction would be pretty hard. A 300 yards squirrel would never be seen in this picture. Starting to see my point of view. I like the idea of the NPR1 and would use that but I want it at full power.
A lot of new shooters come here looking to see what the big boys use and next thing I know is they think they need a 22 power Night Force FFP zero stop 20 MOA dials or Mil/ Mil on their 22 Hornet for shooting tree squirrels. It's getting to where they are now asking about S&B or USO for deer hunting because they read somewhere they track better. This is from guys that think shooting over 300 yards is unethical. It's their money and it makes them feel better then a guy should have it. I just don't need it for myself and question how many here really need one. That was the reason for the thread. It just seems like a waste of money for the guy like me that never turns it down or they are department LEO snipers that never go over 300 yards with their .308. Military and competition is way beyond me so bear with me on that.
I did a search and saw lots on, “here they are”, threads but can't seem to find any reasons that made me want to have one. I came here to learn and see if I was missing something so I thought I would ask those that do use them their opinions. I try to learn something everyday. </div></div>
FFP scopes aren't optimum for everybody's needs, and FAR from optimum for most people's pocket book. If you're always trying to shoot small targets (squirrels) at 300 yards that are sitting still, they sure, you may not need to or want to dial your scope down. I don't know many people here that would shoot at a squirrel at 300 yards on the lowest magnification IF they were able to dial up, or unless they were just trying to prove they could do it. Most guys here would like to dial up their magnification on a smaller stationary target; there's a reason that most of their scopes dial up to 16x or higher. Oh and for the record, I don't know many guys here who would try to use a mil reticle to hold "9 MOA". There's a reason that most tactical guys like MIL/MIL scopes or MOA/MOA scopes, apparently you haven't quite gotten the difference between MIL/MIL and MIL/MOA scopes.
As others have said, for what you do, a FFP may not be much use to you. You ever tried to shoot at targets that are moving at 25x or higher? You ever tried to shoot at a coyote at a dead run in the 3 or 9 o'clock position (relative to you) at 100-300 yards at 25x? If you have, or do it often, then you SHOULD understand. Lots of guys here (myself included) are doing UKD shooting, and at movers or multiple targets at multiple ranges. In these type of situations, you don't have time to look at your scope power to see if it's on the magnification that the reticle is accurate at so that their hold over or lead is correct; you gotta shoot and make your corrections.
It would appear that almost every example you talk about, or for your customers, is related to 300 yards or less. It also sounds like it's at stationary targets (gongs, squirrels relaxing, etc) at a known distance. Any competent shooter could probably get the job done with Nikon Buckmaster, and lots of guys with a BSA if it would hold zero (big if, lol). The distances you are talking about aren't even CLOSE to the distances that these guys are shooting at, or the same situations (movers, UKD, quick follow ups, multiple targets, etc). It would appear that for your type of shooting, and lots of your customers, they don't really "need" a FFP scope, and probably won't utilize it. For the guys here, which is the minority of shooters, we know how to fully utilize these scopes and they fit OUR needs. Even if we don't "need" it, for some of the shooting some people might occasionally do, it may make things more convenient. Oh and I also assure you that lots of guys here could see and hit a 10" gong at 500 yards with their scopes dialed down to the lower power. We don't just hold over on a target either, we dial the correct distance and hold dead on; no need to have to try to figure out 9 MOA on a mil reticle.
