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Why are actions+bolt so expensive

You realize you can only shoot one at a time, right? Why build so many ARs and not one long rifle?
My long rifles are coming next year. Like I said in this thread, 1 308, 1 6.5 creedmoor, and 1 556.

The AR15s vary in their intended purpose. 2 SBRs for CQB and home defense, 1 SPR, 2 Match/Competition rifles, and 2 extra general-purpose rifles. My 3 AR10s will be mostly for long-range.

When I'm done, my gun collection will have:

9 AR15s (various calibers)
3 AR10s (various calibers)
4 PDWs
8 handguns
2 shotguns
3 22lr guns in various setups
3 Bolt Action guns (various calibers) or more if I can get more actions before the Measure 114 court date in the first week of March.
 
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I can look across the room right now and say, with extreme confidence, that I have thousands of dollars in parts that have no host, or are in XYZ stage of build, upgrade, refinement, etc... and more thousands of $ in rifles and optics that, admittedly, may not even have a single round down the pipe yet.

Just two weeks ago I took two unfired pistols to the range. One was purchased Spring 2022, the other Summer *2019*. I have another pistol that was purchased Spring 2022... still unfired. And a rifle from Spring 2022... also unfired. That rifle will in days have a scope coming for it and I haven't thought about mounting it. That'll probably happen maybe next year. In 2016 (could have been 2017) I bought a rifle which I didn't fire until 2021. Lastly, I have all the parts to complete an AR-15. I started buying them in 2021. It's about half assembled. I have another rifle on order (wait list). If I get it this year I bet I don't shoot it this year.

To @Nbleak21's point, I always have parts and guns sitting around for a long time before I give them attention.
 
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I was busy with other things in 2020 and didn't have my parts list assembled at that time. I was looking at buying complete guns at that time but hadn't fully done enough research into them.

The only thing I'm just holding off on is two builds until I can buy the complete upper in 2025. That is my Daniel Defense upper and my PRI Mk12 upper. Everything else is on track to be completed this year.

I don't think you've made a new point here.
Son, my point is you are an excessive planner with a lot of enthusiasm. This is not bad in an absolute sense.

I’m contrasting that image with myself, who is looking one day ahead and wearing a coon skin cap for its enthusiasm-boosting properties.

You seem to be in thrall to a buzzy and intoxicating gear rush. I know the addiction well. I sometimes see my younger self in your frenzied planning. I am both amazed and sad at the energy you are expending. Why?

Because the most important thing you have in this world is time.

Money cannot buy you time. Not really.

This is the unspoken reason underlying why guys are suggesting you buy one AR and one bolt action and shoot them for a while. Throw in a .22LR for fun. Shoot with friends, a girlfriend, your kids, with someone you enjoy.

Realize storing and selling gun stuff is a bigger pain and time-sink than doing the same thing with, say, camping gear.

And guns are finicky, not like other consumer goods. Can be frustrating and a further time-sink. More guns = more futzing with guns and less time shooting, loving, whatever.

But maybe you have gunsmith butlers to take care of these things? (giving you a little ribbing)

Myself, I have wasted so, so, so much precious time researching gear to the nth degree. I have reams of info for gear I never even bought.

My dad did this too. Sailboats, airplanes, etc. Time spent away.

Away from me.

Meanwhile I have happy, golden retriever-type friends who buy stuff with almost zero-to-zero research and they simply go bounding away to have fun.

I wish I would’ve spent more time with my young kids, with my friends, hiking, skiing, biking…something.

I’ve been to old man estate sales in which I see reams of unopened boxes full of new gear. Woodworking stuff, pepper mills, knives, whatever. I think of all of the time the deceased fellow spent researching and buying these items. Time not spent with loved ones. Time spent to avoid things.

You are going to age and die much faster than you think you are.

This is the lesson I’m trying to pass on to you.
 
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I would take an AXSR kitted out with all the goodies over a safe full of bullshit.
That because you learned lmao, after likely going through a safe full of shit to figure out what is important and what works. I guess it really depends more on whether you like and are serious about shooting or if you just like to tinker. Some people just like a safe full of shit to mess with.

I suggested this to the OP once…
What did he say?

OP there is some seriously smart and talented people on these boards and others that have learned the hard way. The best advice one can give, if you are serious in your questions, is to get behind/try out as much shit as possible. Find what works for you. Better yet, go to a match and you’ll quickly learn what works and doesn’t work. Aside from that, build you one bad ass handgun, one badass AR, one badass bolt action and have one bad ass shotgun. You can even throw in a sub Gun or two for fun. Learn how to use them well. You will thank us later. The more shit you have, the more shit you will collect, the more shit there will be to take care of and maintain and load for and on and on and on. But, if you just like to tinker, by all means, buy all the shit you want.
 
And oh yeah, don’t constantly list all the reams of stuff you’re going to buy, ok?

You don’t seem to know it, but it comes across as immature (to me), insensitive (making the less wealthy jealous), or hollow boasting.

With future or current gear lists, discretion is the greater part of valor and all that.
 
That because you learned lmao, after likely going through a safe full of shit to figure out what is important and what works. I guess it really depends more on whether you like and are serious about shooting or if you just like to tinker. Some people just like a safe full of shit to mess with.

I sold a lot of shit to afford my AIAT and I love that rifle. Main shooter. It’s awesome.
 
And oh yeah, don’t constantly list all the reams of stuff you’re going to buy, ok?

You don’t seem to know it, but it comes across as immature (to me), insensitive (making the less wealthy jealous), or hollow boasting.

With future or current gear lists, discretion is the greater part of valor and all that.

I have to list everything I'm building. In every thread I create, people are constantly questioning my credibility and questioning if I am going to even build anything at all, or if I even have any guns at all. Even if it's a thread about cars or some other topic, I'm either followed from thread to thread or harassed about it constantly. This thread is kind of the norm for me. I just want to establish that I either have the guns, or I have the receivers with the intention of building them out this year or in 2024.

I list everything I'm building this year and next year because that gets brought up a lot. I list my build schedule because that gets brought up a lot too.
 
That because you learned lmao, after likely going through a safe full of shit to figure out what is important and what works. I guess it really depends more on whether you like and are serious about shooting or if you just like to tinker. Some people just like a safe full of shit to mess with.


What did he say?

OP there is some seriously smart and talented people on these boards and others that have learned the hard way. The best advice one can give, if you are serious in your questions, is to get behind/try out as much shit as possible. Find what works for you. Better yet, go to a match and you’ll quickly learn what works and doesn’t work. Aside from that, build you one bad ass handgun, one badass AR, one badass bolt action and have one bad ass shotgun. You can even throw in a sub Gun or two for fun. Learn how to use them well. You will thank us later. The more shit you have, the more shit you will collect, the more shit there will be to take care of and maintain and load for and on and on and on. But, if you just like to tinker, by all means, buy all the shit you want.

I guess I'm the latter. I love to tinker with builds. That is exactly why I didn't get an AI AXMC or MRAD or KAC SR-25 etc. The more builds I have, the more I get to try different things down the road. I want to try out different chassis, different triggers, different barrels, using different suppressors, etc. I think all of my AR builds will be pretty badass. I have one nice PDW, handgun, and shotgun. And my Bolt Action guns will be pretty sweet. I don't mind taking care of my guns, it's a hobby that I get to geek out on which is fun for me so caring for my guns will be no different from caring for my vehicles.

But I'm also going to use my guns quite extensively. I'll do reviews on them, sign up for training courses, and shoot a few of them every weekend.

I have learned so much from these boards and there are a ton of great posters here who have pushed me in the right direction for which parts to use in my builds. So I definitely look out for advice on here.
 
At this point, all of these memes seem appropriate (weirdly, for me, unironically posted). Good luck to you.

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I guess I'm the latter. I love to tinker with builds. That is exactly why I didn't get an AI AXMC or MRAD or KAC SR-25 etc. The more builds I have, the more I get to try different things down the road. I want to try out different chassis, different triggers, different barrels, using different suppressors, etc. I think all of my AR builds will be pretty badass. I have one nice PDW, handgun, and shotgun. And my Bolt Action guns will be pretty sweet. I don't mind taking care of my guns, it's a hobby that I get to geek out on which is fun for me so caring for my guns will be no different from caring for my vehicles.

But I'm also going to use my guns quite extensively. I'll do reviews on them, sign up for training courses, and shoot a few of them every weekend.

I have learned so much from these boards and there are a ton of great posters here who have pushed me in the right direction for which parts to use in my builds. So I definitely look out for advice on here.
Out of curiosity, how old are you? What do you do for a living? Got any kids? Taking care of stuff takes a lot of money and time and the shooting game ain’t cheap. Just saying.
 
I’m so happy LilG is spreading his autism in more than the semi-auto forum. “Hey guys. What’s the best lower? I have 5 already but am planning to change my direction 12 times before I start building- nominally sometime next year. And, I have to do this fast because I’m racing an AWB…”
 
I have to list everything I'm building. In every thread I create, people are constantly questioning my credibility and questioning if I am going to even build anything at all, or if I even have any guns at all. Even if it's a thread about cars or some other topic, I'm either followed from thread to thread or harassed about it constantly. This thread is kind of the norm for me. I just want to establish that I either have the guns, or I have the receivers with the intention of building them out this year or in 2024.

I list everything I'm building this year and next year because that gets brought up a lot. I list my build schedule because that gets brought up a lot too.
You know what they say…if one or two people are assholes to you, the problem likely lies with them. If everyone is an asshole, the problem likely lies with you.

I haven’t made up my mind about what you really are (honest enthusiast, clueless nitwit a la Sam bankman-fried but w/guns, federal agent, controlled asset, antifa, etc) but you’ve been skylining yourself like few I’ve seen on here recently.

Regardless, it’s been entertaining…
 
Out of curiosity, how old are you? What do you do for a living? Got any kids? Taking care of stuff takes a lot of money and time and the shooting game ain’t cheap. Just saying.

In my 30's, no kids, working two jobs until my sabbatical in 2025 where I'll take a year off to travel with my gf and just enjoy life.
 
You know what they say…if one or two people are assholes to you, the problem likely lies with them. If everyone is an asshole, the problem likely lies with you.

I haven’t made up my mind about what you really are (honest enthusiast, clueless nitwit a la Sam bankman-fried but w/guns, federal agent, controlled asset, antifa, etc) but you’ve been skylining yourself like few I’ve seen on here recently.

Regardless, it’s been entertaining…

I don't think I've posted any bad threads that would draw the kind of assholes I'm getting. I've been really nice to everybody. I have been super focused on learning about different parts of guns from other people's experience. I think it's just the Hide. There have been a lot of great people who have helped me here, but I don't get assholes on Reddit or Arfcom. In fact, everyone is super friendly on Reddit and Arfcom despite their reputation. On here though, I can't post a thread about cars or some other topic without being harrassed. I don't think it's the entire site, I think it's just a few people with sock accounts who are doing it. Most people on here have been very helpful. But I can't have a thread on here without it being derailed by the few who come on here to question my credibility.

I mean, look at this thread and how it evolved. Even trolls like Hlee follow me from post to post asking me when I'm going to build out my guns. I can't post a thread without him showing up.
 
I have to list everything I'm building. In every thread I create, people are constantly questioning my credibility and questioning if I am going to even build anything at all, or if I even have any guns at all. Even if it's a thread about cars or some other topic, I'm either followed from thread to thread or harassed about it constantly. This thread is kind of the norm for me. I just want to establish that I either have the guns, or I have the receivers with the intention of building them out this year or in 2024.

I list everything I'm building this year and next year because that gets brought up a lot. I list my build schedule because that gets brought up a lot
You’re getting the reactions that you are because you’re constantly asking for advice and information and then arguing with the advice and information.

Seems like most people are just trying to make the point that if you have more posts on Snipers Hide than you have actual lifetime rounds fired through a gun, you should slow down and get some more experience before building 15+ more guns.
 
You’re getting the reactions that you are because you’re constantly asking for advice and information and then arguing with the advice and information.

Seems like most people are just trying to make the point that if you have more posts on Snipers Hide than you have actual lifetime rounds fired through a gun, you should slow down and get some more experience before building 15+ more guns.

That can't be it. I don't think I've argued with anyone who has given me legitimate advice about what to build or how to build it or the parts to use. I welcome you to find me an example where I did that because I'm just not that type of person. I'm incredibly grateful for every bit of information I get. Did you just make this up?

It's okay for someone to build out 5 ARs (my other 4 only require the lower to be built out since I'm using complete uppers). I don't think there's anything wrong about building, and testing out those ARs, changing out buffers or adjusting the gas as needed, and shooting them. I feel like I'm being shamed for building a bunch of guns and I don't see why it's a problem.

Why would you assume that I have more posts on the Hide than rounds fired out of an AR15?

How many rounds do you think I've shot over my lifetime, with my family and friends?
 
You just wrote a good goddamn modern poem hahah!

Spreadsheet Things
by jpjulian

My wife helped
me set up a spreadsheet
several years
ago
When we were
finished
she said,
"this explains
a great many things."
 
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Would you suggest I build my Bolt guns first over my AR's? I've already stated in this thread that the reason I'm building my AR's first is because there might be a ban on semi-autos in my state. I can't do everything all at once. I can't build out my bolt action guns, buy suppressors, and build my AR's at the same time. Something has to give. How would you schedule your builds if you lived in a state that was not 2A friendly? The best advice I've been given is to buy my suppressors first, so that is the route I am taking. Suppressors aren't cheap, especially the ones I'm buying.
I suggest you go with 1x quality 5.56 semi, 1x quality bolt gun, 1x quality can you can use on both, buy some ammo, and leave the rest of your money in the bank...or buy a rental, stocks, bonds, open an account with a broker, etc.
 
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I suggest you go with 1x quality 5.56 semi, 1x quality bolt gun, 1x quality can you can use on both, buy some ammo, and leave the rest of your money in the bank...or buy a rental, stocks, bonds, open an account with a broker, etc.
Well, do remember two is one, one is none! :d
 
AR are worthless for long range accuracy work due to all the compromises you are forced into. AR are great for those things you want a light weight handy semiauto rifle for in a limited number of cartridges of limited use and heavy compromises. Bolt action rifles are almost limitless with regards to the chambings you can select froma nd build. Semi-Auto's are about rapid fire period. They compromise everything else for that end.

You select a goal and select the characteristics most needed to best accomplish that goal. I grew up with the M16A andA2 and I qualified with one in the early 1980's but I did not own one AR15 clone until about 2020. They just do not do the things I need a rifle to do most.

Finish one project and then move on to the next do not have too many irons in the fire at once.

Cheers!
Nothing the OP posted is as laughable as this gem right here! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
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Why precision actions cost what they do:
the machining for them isn't cheap
the labor isn't cheap
the raw material isn't cheap
government: local, state, federal regulation
taxes for local, state, federal
ffl license
accounting (nothing to do with producing the receivers)
lawyers (also nothing to do with producing the receivers)

R&D costs. It's just my opinion but that's why stiller, defiance, and surgeon receivers aren't seen as often at matches. They found a product that worked and stopped innovating. Better products come to market for example ARC, BigHorn, Kelbly, etc.

For how my ARC Mausingfield has performed over the last 5 or so years in matches, $1600 is a bargain.
 
well i have a 223 bolt gun already

but for the sake of red dawn and tyranny and all that...i def need a 5.56 one too so i can take my AR ammo and use it in a bolt gun...cause 5.56 is where it's at i mean shit the military uses it still
I don't know. I better hear this from "An INSTRUCTOR" in "A CLASS". :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
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You guys derail every thread I make lol
You have to realize the type of people that are here. This thread explains it pretty well. Would be better titled as Life on the Hide.
Btw that thread is Legendary Thread post #123.
 
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You have to realize the type of people that are here. This thread explains it pretty well. Would be better titled as Life on the Hide.
This place certainly has its own dynamic...:D
 
Well, do remember two is one, one is none! :d
This also sorta applies to women but is harder to implement correctly
Two or more can also turn into none.
Quit getting all “spooky action at a distance”, maaaaan 💨
I thought rifles were for when you want to reach out and touch someone… Have I been doing this wrong??
wut bro?

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So I was joking about having two chicks at a time and you were talking about long distance phone calls maaannn n
 
Haha, yeah... I've got a few working ones, too. I believe LilG does as well, just not, perhaps, BoltAction at this point.

LilG, While I don't run or own a Reciever Company, I can give some insights given my background in engineering and operations.

Ultimately, it comes down to fixed and variable costs... conceptually it can be a little tricky, but hang in there with me, and we'll walk through it.

Specifically, let's focus on the receiver itself (IE, not bolt, coatings, trigger assemblies, or any other parts/treatments that are sometimes outsourced.)

As indicated by one of the other members, you will need a CNC machine to mill the parts, which can cost $500k-$1mm or more! Aaron at Gunwerks has some amazing videos of some of this stuff and touches on optimization and vertical integration aspects, quite eloquently in this video: Click Here
Alt:

Generally, these machines will be financed or depreciated over a given period (7 years is not uncommon)... So you're looking at ~$16,500/mo to pay for this equipment, assuming a 10% interest rate for a business loan at $1,000,000.

In addition, you'll need a facility to run this machine in. For a facility the size of Aaron's, linked above... I'd estimate somewhere along the lines of $12,000-18,000/mo, inclusive of property taxes. Let's call it $13,500 for simple math.

You'll also need a guy/gal to oversee the facility and manufacturing operation. $100k-$200k annually for an Ops Manager, is not uncommon (depending on the industry and size of the overall operation.) for simple math, let's call it $15k/mo after you include benefits and all that fun stuff.

If you add those three together and another $5k for misc items such as insurance, marketing, and General and administrative expenses, you've got your large components of "overhead" covered at a sum total of $50k/mo. These costs will be there if you make zero parts, one hundred parts, or one thousand parts/mo. while fixed in nature, these are called your variable costs... because they vary according to how many units you make.... confused, yet? Hear me out:

Say your raw material for each receiver is a $50 block of metal. While you may get some volume discounting, it will never scale in the same way your overhead costs will. Same with the person that is operating your machine. If your operator makes 4 receivers/hr, and, because he's a skilled technician running an expensive piece of equipment, he makes $40/hr. That means you are spending $10/receiver in labor. These costs are your fixed cost because you have to spend $50 for each block, and you have to pay your operator for each 15min that he/she is making your receivers. So $60/receiver.

The math for receiver cost goes like this:
1 receiver/month = ($50,000 / 1 receiver) + $60 = $50,060/receiver
100 receiver/mo = ($50,000 / 100) + $60 = $5,060/receiver
1000 receiver/mo = ($50,000 / 1000) + $60 = $560/receiver

Do you see, now, why the overhead costs are considered variable, and how the per-piece costs are considered fixed?

Great!
So if we make 1000 receivers/mo, we can lower our costs to $560 each.

If we want to make money... we will have to add a margin (profit) into the equation.
While I don't know the profit margins of receivers, I do know that in my Industry, we target a 37% contribution margin (or better).
So if we used that number: $560/(1-.37), we get to a sales price of $888.88 to make our target revenue per receiver sold.

$888 sounds pretty close to some of those numbers you're familiar with ;)

If you wanted to cut the cost more, you could add another machine and another operator... or run the machine up to its theoretical limit of 24/7 operations. Ideally, you want to fully absorb your overhead (make your variable costs as little $ as possible), or at least as much as your business demand and personnel can handle!

certainly the above is a very watered-down version of what goes into running a manufacturing facility and business. Still, hopefully, that helps to show what costs can go into it, aside from the machining of the metal itself.

Damn it, you beat me to it. I am an op mgr at a company and there are many things that go into a price and chief among them is the skilled labor. People call us because we are the best. And we cost a little more than competitors.
 
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And oh yeah, don’t constantly list all the reams of stuff you’re going to buy, ok?

You don’t seem to know it, but it comes across as immature (to me), insensitive (making the less wealthy jealous), or hollow boasting.

With future or current gear lists, discretion is the greater part of valor and all that.
Exactly right. That is why I have not mentioned getting a penis pump installed.

Wait - what?
 
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