Normally those great groups are cherry-picked, guys score one good set and that becomes the entire thought of the line.
the truth is a bit more gray
the truth is a bit more gray
- Thread starter tobylazur
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Savage is great for what it is. Cheap.
Once you start upgrading the costs escalate and that minimal cost is now basically a wash and you’re left with a subpar platform for your efforts compared to what the other would cost. You spend 3k in investments in barrels and tools and stocks and triggers and bases and bedding and the 200 dollar difference in original costs comes out to 7%. Is that 7% worth not being able to get that chassis you really want or an extraction system that is fundamentally better or a trigger other than timney or something that’s just an overall nicer foundation?
The more you put into it the less attractive it becomes.
Once you start upgrading the costs escalate and that minimal cost is now basically a wash and you’re left with a subpar platform for your efforts compared to what the other would cost. You spend 3k in investments in barrels and tools and stocks and triggers and bases and bedding and the 200 dollar difference in original costs comes out to 7%. Is that 7% worth not being able to get that chassis you really want or an extraction system that is fundamentally better or a trigger other than timney or something that’s just an overall nicer foundation?
The more you put into it the less attractive it becomes.
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You don't need a $4500 rifle to have fun or be competitive. Hell you can spend Savage money and get a quality product from Howa or tikka. You can spend a grand and get a full chassis rifle and there are tons of options. The point is Savage are junk guns. So are Remington's as far as I'm concerned. Both are inferior to just about every other option on the market. Stop trying to defend something that is undefendable to people who actually know what they are talking about.
And that is more like the kind of answer I and other people are looking for. Mirrors the math/answer I came to personally. Keep my savage and enjoy it for what it is, and use it as my hunting rifle. Maybe rebarrel it into something fun and different like a 7SAUM. Spend my money on a nicer foundation for my match gun, like the Howas or Tikkas mentioned here. But my thought was try to put the least into it to have a functional rifle. If you could buy a literally 500 dollar rifle (like the 110 Tactical) and then go shoot a match with it, that would be pretty cool for a lot of people. Or my 12FV for all of 200 bucks.
I didn't say you needed to have one, if anything that is your stance. If you don't want to lay out the cash then stay home and work to be less poor. $1000 is still double some of the potential off the shelf Savage options.
I'm also not defending anything, for the record. I am trying to get some real input as to whether you could make some simple modifications to a barebones rifle and end up with something you could shoot at a reasonable level, especially since I own one of those barebones rifles. If it were possible for me to put just a couple hundred bucks into it and be able to shoot a match, I would do that instead. But since it isn't very doable, I'm looking at other solutions. I have found a couple places selling the RPR or Howa Bravo right around 900 online, either seem like a good option.
Seen this with many. Only group that means anything is 10 shots over ten different days at 10 different locations. Shoot a .25-.50 moa group that way an now your talking about a accurate system (shooter an rifle).
I dislike how Savage has 15 different bolt hole spacings, bolt release locations, and magazine types. Factory Remington's have their problems, but at least their core platform has had the same footprint over the years. I have been running 700 actions fairly hard for years and have never had an action problem, or a problem finding accessories.
here is some pics for those shooting cheep guns to make the bolt lift very smooth and easy.
the first pic is an unaltered one. you can see the raised point right where it should be level.
sorry the pics got jumbled the scond one is the unaltered one
the first one is it leveled off creating a smooth easy bolt lift
the rest are just more pics of the mod
oh while your at it check your firing pin protrusion, it should be .060" if its not adjust it.
the first pic is an unaltered one. you can see the raised point right where it should be level.
sorry the pics got jumbled the scond one is the unaltered one
the first one is it leveled off creating a smooth easy bolt lift
the rest are just more pics of the mod
oh while your at it check your firing pin protrusion, it should be .060" if its not adjust it.
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Any reason to get a T3x over a T3? At that price I'd even be happy with the .243 barrel and just shoot it out before changing to 6.5CM.
.243 is a great caliber, PRS shooters all love the 6mms. Slippery high BC bullets and high velocities. The factory barrel is a 1:10 twist though, which means you would probably be limited to <90 grain bullets, so you lose out on some of the benefit. Plus with a light profile it would likely heat up fairly quickly.
As far as I know there isn't a real functional difference between the T3 and T3x, just a bit of a weight difference and a slightly larger ejection port?
My buddy got one of the $200 varmint barrel savages about 6 months back when cabelas had them on sale. He also payed with discounted gift cards he bought online. He free floated the barrel and ran a few rounds through it. Scrubbed the barrel clean and it shoots as well as any custom. That’s the good.
The bad. The accutrigger won’t stay set. It will lighten up on its own until the trigger safety will trip when the bolt is closed. Does this often. He had a small part break underneath the spring on the firing pin. He has about 400 rounds through the rifle. When the rifle gets dirty, the bolt will not close on a round. Out of commission until it is cleaned.
Do not buy a savage unless it is the only way you can afford to start shooting. At the $215 he has in his it’s easier to overlook these issues. At anything more I couldn’t imagine.
The bad. The accutrigger won’t stay set. It will lighten up on its own until the trigger safety will trip when the bolt is closed. Does this often. He had a small part break underneath the spring on the firing pin. He has about 400 rounds through the rifle. When the rifle gets dirty, the bolt will not close on a round. Out of commission until it is cleaned.
Do not buy a savage unless it is the only way you can afford to start shooting. At the $215 he has in his it’s easier to overlook these issues. At anything more I couldn’t imagine.
Well that's a bummer. Has he called Savage for new parts/an RMA? That is the same rifle I have, got it for under 200 between the sale, rebate and the gift cards haha. I turned my trigger down as low it seemed like it wanted to go and haven't had any issues with it.
Yea. I guess I'd be missing out on any barrel threading for brakes as well.
Yup. I had the exact same plan at first, drop it in a bravo and shoot it as it sits until the barrel was smoked. But most likely you would be limited to the 87-95 grain bullets at most, which give up a fair bit in BC compared to the 103-115 grain pills. Probably would be better off to sell it as unfired and get a prefit I figure.
No he didn't call Savage. The little washer that broke underneath the firing pin spring was a cheap part. His trigger will eventually lighten until it will trip when the bolt is closed. If it would stay set it would be a really good trigger. He is just going to replace it. Other than that after about 15-20 rds when it was new it started shooting like shit. Scrub the bore and never had to mess with it again. Just needed breaking in. I hope yours shoots as good as his.
Here is a tip if you haven't done it already. Free float the barrel. You will have to remove quite a bit of material because of how much the stock flexes but once you get it done its done. It doesn't need to be pretty. The rifle is extremely front heavy. The stock is hollow so you can remove the recoil pad and weight it up. We just did this on his by adding some lead shot and packing tight to keep everything from sliding around. Man it made a world of difference.
For a range gun Savage rifles are fine. I just wouldn't rely on them for much else. If you can find them cheap then you aren't out much. Some of those suckers are up around a grand though.
LOL. You are correct. This rifle was meant to get him into the bolt action game now though. If he was going to put money into this gun then he would have just bought something better to start with. The rifles I am talking about don't even have the accu stock. Flemsy tuppaware and shoots like a $3000 custom. It just doesn't feel like one.
I have two Savage Model 10 rifles and two Remington 700s. The Savages do feel cheap and I have occasionally had feeding/ejecting issues. I wouldn't say bolt lift is great on either platform. Both savages still have accutriggers, which I don't mind, but if they are adjusted too light they have issues. Good thing I don't like super light triggers.
Both Savage rifles were bought and upgraded before the Tikkas/Howas gained popularity and before I knew any better. I have so much money wrapped up in them now with aftermarket barrels, McMillan stocks, DBM, etc. that I can't afford to start over with a different platform. They turned out really nice and shoot lights out but I am still running that clunky savage bolt when I shoot. I don't shoot comps so when I do have an issue its not a big deal for me. I just deal with it. It's not gonna keep me from enjoying what I love but its just kind of disappointing given the other options available now.
In retrospect I wish I would have gone the Tikka route because they are very nice and there are even prefit barrels for them now too. This was the main reason I went with savage.
I do like my 700s and they are both shooters with factory barrels. They both have upgraded triggers and chassis and I wouldn't have a problem using them in comps as they are reliable now that they have been upgraded.
Both Savage rifles were bought and upgraded before the Tikkas/Howas gained popularity and before I knew any better. I have so much money wrapped up in them now with aftermarket barrels, McMillan stocks, DBM, etc. that I can't afford to start over with a different platform. They turned out really nice and shoot lights out but I am still running that clunky savage bolt when I shoot. I don't shoot comps so when I do have an issue its not a big deal for me. I just deal with it. It's not gonna keep me from enjoying what I love but its just kind of disappointing given the other options available now.
In retrospect I wish I would have gone the Tikka route because they are very nice and there are even prefit barrels for them now too. This was the main reason I went with savage.
I do like my 700s and they are both shooters with factory barrels. They both have upgraded triggers and chassis and I wouldn't have a problem using them in comps as they are reliable now that they have been upgraded.
I like the lipstick on the female savage.
I just bought a MkII for my boy. Haven't shot it yet. I have an extra Razor II in a SPHUR mount, and I am honestly thinking about throwing it on rather than buying rimfire glass.
I think the rifle was like $250, and isn't it a rule that you should spend 12X on the scope what you paid for the rifle...? Did I read that on The Hide somewhere?
I just bought a MkII for my boy. Haven't shot it yet. I have an extra Razor II in a SPHUR mount, and I am honestly thinking about throwing it on rather than buying rimfire glass.
I think the rifle was like $250, and isn't it a rule that you should spend 12X on the scope what you paid for the rifle...? Did I read that on The Hide somewhere?
Simply because they perform very well..!
Throw a decent bolt in there and this will change!
But why?
Sounds like you weren’t shooting very good ammo! I’ve never had anything over a 1.5” group out of any savage at 100yds.
henryG did you see my post above on fixing your heavy bolt lift????
check it out, its an easy fix.
check it out, its an easy fix.
They are too dumb and ignorant to know any better. It's like a guy who ate dogfood his while life and when someone tries to explain lobster and steak he says "alpo is great, it works"
I’ll be the first to admit I’m an optic and rifle snob. I typically won’t recommend factory stuff or cheap optics.
That being said, guys don’t lose matches because of the actions they are or aren’t shooting (within reason).
Run your savage and learn how to shoot it well.
That being said, guys don’t lose matches because of the actions they are or aren’t shooting (within reason).
Run your savage and learn how to shoot it well.
Started last Fall - about a year ago - building my first precision rifle. Didn't know much but knew I wanted to shoot at MOA targets at increasing ranges and didn't want to drop thousands right out of the gate before I knew anything. I'm one of those guys who reads a lot, thinks a lot, and then goes out and does it to find the kinks. Started with a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 CM and started adding stuff as I learned and started shooting better.
All in I have less than $2K invested and I'm shooting consistent .7 MOA 5 round groups out to 600 yards. About 500 rounds down range now and *none* of the problems I have been warned about like extractor failure and failing trigger safeties. I am a Savage Fan Boy - my brother has Les Baers and a nephew has Ruger Precision Rifles, Bergara, and other higher end stuff. Both of them have Gun Buddies with some very serious hardware and optics so I have had a chance to compare to some degree. I'm still a newbie but I'd buy another Savage and trick it after this experience. Then again, I have no intention of competing so my opinion is just an ignorant one.
But if one just wants to shoot precision and doesn't wanna break the bank right out of the gate, my Savage has run 500 rounds of Factory Ammo and never missed a lick or let me down in any way.
VooDoo
All in I have less than $2K invested and I'm shooting consistent .7 MOA 5 round groups out to 600 yards. About 500 rounds down range now and *none* of the problems I have been warned about like extractor failure and failing trigger safeties. I am a Savage Fan Boy - my brother has Les Baers and a nephew has Ruger Precision Rifles, Bergara, and other higher end stuff. Both of them have Gun Buddies with some very serious hardware and optics so I have had a chance to compare to some degree. I'm still a newbie but I'd buy another Savage and trick it after this experience. Then again, I have no intention of competing so my opinion is just an ignorant one.
But if one just wants to shoot precision and doesn't wanna break the bank right out of the gate, my Savage has run 500 rounds of Factory Ammo and never missed a lick or let me down in any way.
VooDoo
500 rounds? I guess your the expert now since you have as many rounds though the platform as guys will put through in a 2 or 3 day course or practice session. Go shoot out a couple barrels, run it hard in the elements ( not a pretty little covered square range), lug it up and down a few mountains and get a hot load or two in it. You don't know what you don't know.
This is false. In another shooting sport I lost out on placing in the money due to a malfunctioning shotgun. It was a Browning citori not some piece of shit. Replaced it with a Merkel and never had a gun related malfuctiom in competition again. These guns are babied and don't get put though a fraction of the abuse that a presision rifle in the field has to deal with. Savages are notorious for failing under moderate to hard use. Hence why only benchrest nerds and other boring lame ass disciplines use them. In the field, the bullshit separates from the real deal
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Another issue in .243 is that with a standard factory barrel chambering, you may not be able to close the bolt on some of the longer extended range .243 rounds. I have a bunch of very hot .243 rounds from Copper Creek that I inherited. In a custom barrel they will shoot amazingly well & far, but won't let the bolt close on an average factory chambered barrel setup for the lighter standard bullets.
Hence why the (within reason) comment.
The point I’m making is you need to be able to outshoot your equipment before its that much a consideration. If he’s asking about a savage, odds are he probably doesn’t shoot better than it’s capable of or well enough the rifle going down in a match is going to be what holds him back.
Same principle when people are starting out and burn through 6 and 6.5 barrels when they could have used .223/.308 and placed/learned the same amount while saving money on barrels/ammo.
I have watched this thread for some time now. I started shooting matches with a Savage because I liked them for hunting and they shot good groups. I have had shitloads of issues with extraction and ejection. I had a second ejector installed by a gunsmith. The gun runs good with a new extractor and dual ejectors. I've replaced the extractor four times this season because it wears out in a few hundred rounds. It was a good way to learn what the game is about. I even managed to make the action cycle smoothly, and the bolt lift is rather good after some polishing and a lot of dry firing. I have managed a couple top 20 and a top ten finish in some Border Wars matches. I will also say that the extraction and ejection issues are a constant distraction and hold me back. The gun has run perfectly for a whole match in less than half of the matches I have shot. I have less than $1000 in the rifle, but if I get to the point where I want to be consistently competitive I will need a more reliable action to build off of. The failures are just too numerous, and the few points they cost a guy can easily take him out of the running for the top spots. I agree that there are much better options out there now. All of the desirable features that Savage used to have like prefit barrels, etc are available for a ton of different actions now. Most all of those actions are better than a Savage.
Years ago I purchased a R700 in .308 to get into what - I thought at the time - was long range shooting. I sold it a week after having it and purchased a Savage FCPK10 also in .308. At the time is was far more accurate but heavy. I put 2500 rounds through it out to 1200 yards. It was unfortunately stolen and the model had been discontinued so I replaced it with a savage stealth. I don't like the gun at all. It shoots well, but the action blows and the stock sucks. After sitting in the safe I replaced it with a Ruger RPR in 6.5CM and haven't shot .308 since.
I also have a savage HS precision in 338LM with a broken extractor. I used to be a savage guy, but I doubt I'd ever buy one again. Years ago you didn't have as many comparably priced options as you do today. Howa/ Tikka etc are probably better options now.
I also have a savage HS precision in 338LM with a broken extractor. I used to be a savage guy, but I doubt I'd ever buy one again. Years ago you didn't have as many comparably priced options as you do today. Howa/ Tikka etc are probably better options now.
I like savages have several that I have rebarreled, they work, are accurate and are cheap. Not the greatest by any means some are better than others.. They need tweaking to run well. I still get a ejection or extraction issue once in awhile but it’s usually when it gets really dirty but once every 100rds.
The Accutrigger is not that great, so I put timneys in @ 2-2.5lbs. Bed the scope rail get a beefy lug and good nut touque it down to about 80ft lbs and they will always shoot 1/2 minute or better most better. 6.5-284, about 500 rds through it, 6.5x47 over a 1000rds, 6xc at 800rds so far, and a 28 Nosler with about 150 rds. They shoot well but you have to drive them, bolt is stiff but I lighten it some and are good starter guns. My next will be a Tikka or go up a bit more and go custom action.
The Accutrigger is not that great, so I put timneys in @ 2-2.5lbs. Bed the scope rail get a beefy lug and good nut touque it down to about 80ft lbs and they will always shoot 1/2 minute or better most better. 6.5-284, about 500 rds through it, 6.5x47 over a 1000rds, 6xc at 800rds so far, and a 28 Nosler with about 150 rds. They shoot well but you have to drive them, bolt is stiff but I lighten it some and are good starter guns. My next will be a Tikka or go up a bit more and go custom action.
I shot my new Tikka T3 Tac for the first time last Friday. It was every bit as good of a shooting experience as I hoped. Bolt slides like glass, no lift issues, same accuracy with a random box of factory match 175gr 308 as with my hand loads in my Savages. I noticed the trigger was heavier than I am used to, but the break was clean and consistent. I will not even adjust it as I am already used to it.
Sure, I could be bad at reloading so I have to rule that out next trip to the range. Also, I could be a better shot with the chassis that comes with the Tikka than with a standard stock configuration, but I guess I won't know the answer to that one - unless my next Tikka has a standard stock config.
Needless to say, I will have two Savage rifles for sale soon, one is a lefty 10FLCP-K in 308.... I enjoyed them for what they were, but time to move forward with better quality and performance.
Sure, I could be bad at reloading so I have to rule that out next trip to the range. Also, I could be a better shot with the chassis that comes with the Tikka than with a standard stock configuration, but I guess I won't know the answer to that one - unless my next Tikka has a standard stock config.
Needless to say, I will have two Savage rifles for sale soon, one is a lefty 10FLCP-K in 308.... I enjoyed them for what they were, but time to move forward with better quality and performance.
This has been a good thread to hear how others have found their rifles under heavier use. I'm not a high volume or competition shooter, but I'm working on improving my long distance field shooting. When I first started shooting years (and years) ago, military surplus rifles and ammo were still available and inexpensive, so I got used to putting rounds downrange through M1917's and Mauser 98's. The rifles were very solid, and I was used to running them hard, and never had an issue with reliability. When I finally worked my way up to sporter rifles, I was drawn to the Savage because it was so modular, and that you could easily replace barrels, bolts, or whatever you wanted. The two basic model sporters I later bought, one 308, one 30-06, have been decent, modest-use rifles but the 308 has had the same occasional weak and intermittent ejection issue that others have noted. A friend has a stainless 308 that has occasional mis-feeds with the factory detachable mag, and a pretty poor (heavy and rough) bolt lift.
Both of mine are sufficiently accurate, but I admit that the reliability issues and roughness of the action has turned me off to them. We are pretty fortunate today, high quality pre-fit barrels and barrel nuts are available for many more rifles, so a person can upgrade their rifle pretty easily themselves now, which I think is a nice feature. In time as I tried other rifles, I found other actions I preferred more, so I don't plan to upgrade anything on my Savages. I'll just shoot them up for what they are, and save my pennies for something else.
Both of mine are sufficiently accurate, but I admit that the reliability issues and roughness of the action has turned me off to them. We are pretty fortunate today, high quality pre-fit barrels and barrel nuts are available for many more rifles, so a person can upgrade their rifle pretty easily themselves now, which I think is a nice feature. In time as I tried other rifles, I found other actions I preferred more, so I don't plan to upgrade anything on my Savages. I'll just shoot them up for what they are, and save my pennies for something else.
Well guys... i ended up ordering a Howa barreled action through Brownells yesterday. It's on backorder, so i don't know when it will be here, but it's a start. I'm interested in dropping it in a KRG Bravo chassis.
I don't know if i should keep my Savage, or sell it now.
I don't know if i should keep my Savage, or sell it now.
D
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Savage 110s are good if you buy everything separate and put it together yourself and replacing barrels as needed. They are not good if you plan on playing Army with them. In fact, who ever came up with the plastic bottom bolt release should be fired.
"QC issues with Savages" lol anybody bought a Remington in the past 10 years? Must have been pure luck when I shot over 2,000 rounds in 3 months through my model 10 in 308. Not a single ejection or extraction issue.
"Dont buy a Savage! Buy a Remington, pull the barrel, replace the trigger and have it trued!" -Said the idiot. And pay somebody to do it!
Maybe I wasnt running mine "hard enough"? Must have been it. Will the bolt heat up and seize? Will the magazine jar out of place by all the hardcore shooting? Maybe the barrel will start flopping around and cause a failure to feed into the chamber.
P.S. My scope hasnt fell off yet. Or my barrel. Knock on wood.
"Dont buy a Savage! Buy a Remington, pull the barrel, replace the trigger and have it trued!" -Said the idiot. And pay somebody to do it!
Maybe I wasnt running mine "hard enough"? Must have been it. Will the bolt heat up and seize? Will the magazine jar out of place by all the hardcore shooting? Maybe the barrel will start flopping around and cause a failure to feed into the chamber.
P.S. My scope hasnt fell off yet. Or my barrel. Knock on wood.
Dont get so upset. Savage rifles are cheap. They feel cheap compared to every other product out there. It would be hard to argue that. They do shoot well though.
My remington rifles are fine like they came. No need to do any of the stuff that you claim needs to be done. I did replace the trigger on a couple though because i do prefer a lighter pull for the most part. Your experience may differ.
I also would wager that you bought your savage rifle to save some money upfront and that is perfectly okay. Some people cant afford more while others can but just dont see the reason to and either reason is fine. My buddy bought his because it was the cheapest way for him to get in the game. It shoots fantastic but he has had reliability problems well within 400 Rds. Im glad you havent. He would have prefered a Tikka all day everyday but just didnt have the coin.
been shooting in rifle matches for 40 years, i've seen more Remington 700 bolt handles ripped off the bolt in matches than i care to tell about. that being said every time one of these threads come up you'll find these guys that spent $4000.00 on a custom rifle and then had there asses handed to them by some guy shooting a savage. all you have to do is listen. the way some of you guys jerk a rifle around trying to shoot is beyond my reasoning. you can be quick with a rifle without trying to rip the bolt out of the receiver. don't like savage rifles don't buy them!!!!!!
far as gritty bolt??? just takes 10 minutes with a dow rod and some bore paste, she'll be smooth as a baby's ass in no time.
far as gritty bolt??? just takes 10 minutes with a dow rod and some bore paste, she'll be smooth as a baby's ass in no time.
I don't think anyone has mentioned bolt handles in this thread. It seems the main complaint with Savage in here has been extraction/ejection issues. Some guys try to buy accuracy and lose to more experienced people, that's true. But why is no one winning large scale PRS matches with Savage? Are all of the top competitors being fooled into spending more money they don't need to spend?
@NateVA, I know exactly what the point is here. All you custom action guys are basically all the same. You label anybody not shooting one religiously, as "intellectually inferior" and not as smart. Reminds me of liberals. Puke.
Just shoot your gun, and everybody else will shoot theirs.
Just shoot your gun, and everybody else will shoot theirs.
The OP solicited opinions about Savage rifles and actions. He received opinions from people here, which tend to be negative for that brand. We gave those opinions because he is looking for the best quality product to spend his hard earned money on. Furthermore, I think his best bet is a Howa or Tikka rifle, not a custom action. I don't see why this has to be an uncivil discussion.
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