.....and if you enjoy case prep.....please do mine.
That part of the rifle operation sucks.
That part of the rifle operation sucks.
- Thread starter SonoranPrecision
- Start date
Lol, I've been at it going on 34 yrs, I no longer care to do it that much. But retired, have all the time in the world to get it right, so I keep doing it. Looking at my LR rifles, 4K minimum, when I am missing what I am aiming at, I want it all to fall back on myself w/o the outside interference, like can I trust my ammo.
When I got into LR shooting, there were no factory ammo options for the cases I chose, and today, I'm not about to let my investment in equipment collect dust so I can sit on my ass even more.
Actually I'm into reloading for cheaper Than and factory ammo after less than 1k rounds shooting my 260. And that includes press, dies, accessories and components.
When you use a 100 yard group to "prove a point" im just debunking it with facts.
Show me the same group at 1300 yards with factory ammunition vs optimized reloaded ammunition and we'll talk
When you use a 100 yard group to "prove a point" im just debunking it with facts.
Show me the same group at 1300 yards with factory ammunition vs optimized reloaded ammunition and we'll talk
Well, I’m not currently, nor was I previously, trying to “prove a point”. Nor did I ever claim that factory ammunition is superior in performance to optimized reloads, and I certainly never claimed that I could replicate this group at 1300 yards. I understand what you are saying, and I am fully aware of and have experienced the benefits that this hand tuning can provide.
I was simply asking, given my particular application, i.e., local PRS matches, whether or not there were any significant advantages to handloading that I may have not considered.
Reading back through, I see than many people missed what I was asking, and have begun knee jerking to a perceived (though demonstrably unfounded) attack on their precious reloading. I did no such thing, and am myself an avid (though less experienced than many here) reloader, and do not plan to stop.
I apologize for any misunderstanding, I thought that my intent behind the post was clear.
@sstacllc
Scott Satterlee ran Prime 6 Creed factory ammo at the PRS finale this year, took 18th place out of 206 shooters. There were a ton of very small targets at distance. Conservative charge of 115's at 2970 fps, long throated chamber so not sensitive to the lands eroding, makes a pretty compelling reason not to reload.
Scott Satterlee ran Prime 6 Creed factory ammo at the PRS finale this year, took 18th place out of 206 shooters. There were a ton of very small targets at distance. Conservative charge of 115's at 2970 fps, long throated chamber so not sensitive to the lands eroding, makes a pretty compelling reason not to reload.
I am an Old Fart and have been gathering cases, powder, bullets,{and PLEASE don't call them "Pills"] , that is just stupid,] for over 40+ years.
My current rifle I like to shoot is a 6.5/06. Just had a new barrel installed but don't have it back yet.
Where do you buy "Factory AMMO" for that?
Almost all of my rifles have shot none other than handloads.
I may have bought factory ammo and shot it to get the brass, but almost everything else I bought components and loaded it myself.
I weigh my charges down to the knat's ass and put the best bullet I have on top, then go shoot them and see how it pans out.
I think, that having bought ALL of these components in years past, that I can load and shoot much cheaper than you can buy Factory AMMO and I will be better than the factory can do.
The other thing is that I am OLD and retired and have time to devote to it and enjoy doing it.
My days consist of, go to the 1000 yd. range, go downrange and paint the steel and hang a 2 quart milk or juice bottle filled with dyed water 18 inches in front of the plate, then my Partner in Crime and I shoot at that until the hit is made. We have never left a bottle intact, a hit every time even if it takes 30 rounds. If weather conditions permit, we will use one of those small water bottles, like you take in your car, and none of them are intact either.
Go home, hit the reloading bench, and stay in the cycle of "Rinse and Repeat." We shoot 3 to 5 times a week, depending on weather.
We leave the weekends open for others.
My current rifle I like to shoot is a 6.5/06. Just had a new barrel installed but don't have it back yet.
Where do you buy "Factory AMMO" for that?
Almost all of my rifles have shot none other than handloads.
I may have bought factory ammo and shot it to get the brass, but almost everything else I bought components and loaded it myself.
I weigh my charges down to the knat's ass and put the best bullet I have on top, then go shoot them and see how it pans out.
I think, that having bought ALL of these components in years past, that I can load and shoot much cheaper than you can buy Factory AMMO and I will be better than the factory can do.
The other thing is that I am OLD and retired and have time to devote to it and enjoy doing it.
My days consist of, go to the 1000 yd. range, go downrange and paint the steel and hang a 2 quart milk or juice bottle filled with dyed water 18 inches in front of the plate, then my Partner in Crime and I shoot at that until the hit is made. We have never left a bottle intact, a hit every time even if it takes 30 rounds. If weather conditions permit, we will use one of those small water bottles, like you take in your car, and none of them are intact either.
Go home, hit the reloading bench, and stay in the cycle of "Rinse and Repeat." We shoot 3 to 5 times a week, depending on weather.
We leave the weekends open for others.
Lol, the only mistake you made here was asking the question initially. IMO, why would you ask others opinions on how you should conduct business. You handload, you know the benefits, now you want to shoot factory ammo in one rifle, the results are right there for you to make the decisions, and in all honesty, it IS Your decision only.
Welcome to a gun forum! And the saying, opinions are like assholes, not so, we only have one asshole.
This is only 100 yards, but from last week with 3100 rounds through the tube... Hornady ELD-M 140-gr factory ammo. 5-shot group. I swear! And, the group is even in the bullseye! ?
And, the group is even in the bullseye! ? Again, I can get the same result with 5 rocks at a 100 yards.
LOL! Video, or it didn't happen!
I can do it at zero yards with a ballpoint pen. ?
OK, teachmesensai, put down the rocks and grab baseballs.
If you are that accurate with rocks, then baseballs will be "prepped ammo" for you,----then the Rockies need you badly.
You're on, Hotshot, I will be your agent and share 50/50 and have you pitching baseballs next spring and if they are as accurate as your rocks, you have no place other than up to go and have lots of loot to share so the rest of we peons can buy components to shoot and TRY to get as accurate as your rocks.
If you are that accurate with rocks, then baseballs will be "prepped ammo" for you,----then the Rockies need you badly.
You're on, Hotshot, I will be your agent and share 50/50 and have you pitching baseballs next spring and if they are as accurate as your rocks, you have no place other than up to go and have lots of loot to share so the rest of we peons can buy components to shoot and TRY to get as accurate as your rocks.
Milo, I volunteer to be The ASSHOLE you speak of.. I have nothing else to do and I am good at being an ASSHOLE.
I don't think I am the only one on here that"qualifies."
I don't think I am the only one on here that"qualifies."
Same thing here. It would cost me more to reload than shoot the factory loads I'm shooting and the groups I'm getting.....well.....good enough for me. My buddy likes the brass supply though!
If your banging steel targets factory loads should be fine especially using match grade. Now if your punching holes off the bench then you would get much better accuracy by custom reloading so you can attempt five shots through a single hole. I have friends who reload every type of ammo and really enjoy the process.
Factory ammo varies greatly between brands, my own experience is just with 22lr punching holes in paper off a bench but when I switched to ELY at $.37 a round it was like night and day over using the $.035 ammo.
Factory ammo varies greatly between brands, my own experience is just with 22lr punching holes in paper off a bench but when I switched to ELY at $.37 a round it was like night and day over using the $.035 ammo.
My qualifications run deep too. I doubt anything I said was a reference to you.
Challenge accepted!
I've done it many times. All factory ammo. But, I figured there's a limit to how many target photos I can post without annoying people.
The >1-MOA groups are the exception. Sub-MOA is the routine.
Four in a row @ 100 yards...
Five in a row @ 300 yards...
Good enough??
Need more? I've got plenty. ?OK... one more... can't help myself. How about 17 sub-MOA groups in a row at 200 yards (during the same range session)? Three different kinds of factory ammo (if you count Copper Creek as "factory").
If it's been done... it is possible. ?
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Buy the ammo for $1.34, sell the Lapua brass for $0.60-0.70/piece (I feel that’s a reasonable price). And boom, shooting factory ammo for close to or less than it can be reloaded for. Of course this hinges on multiple factors that have already been covered.
Depends. What are you doing? If shooting only a handful per outing and not that much total per year, yeah, it's better to just buy it.
If shooting habits are gross or you tend to use a lot of ammo on an outing or stockpile, then yeah, reloading and handloading in general is a great idea.
I load mostly on a Dillon 650 now and even weighing each charge (for precision ammo) I can still crank that shit out FAST. If I'm loading M855 type shit I can crank 'em out even faster. And my M855 is WAY better than the military shit is, even mass produced.
I get components in bulk, always in bulk and I always max out a hazmat shipment with at least 48lbs. powder plus other shit. Only way to go. Some places offer vet discounts (being a vet in some ways is like getting lifetime 10% off everything, but whatever).
Basically if you load in bulk and prefer accurate ammo, it's worth it. If you have either the money or lack of necessity to get around loading though, it'll always save you more time. But I have more time than money, and I actually enjoy loading --that's another thing, if you hate doing it, don't do it. For me it's a zen thing really, the repetative motions and quiet.
If shooting habits are gross or you tend to use a lot of ammo on an outing or stockpile, then yeah, reloading and handloading in general is a great idea.
I load mostly on a Dillon 650 now and even weighing each charge (for precision ammo) I can still crank that shit out FAST. If I'm loading M855 type shit I can crank 'em out even faster. And my M855 is WAY better than the military shit is, even mass produced.
I get components in bulk, always in bulk and I always max out a hazmat shipment with at least 48lbs. powder plus other shit. Only way to go. Some places offer vet discounts (being a vet in some ways is like getting lifetime 10% off everything, but whatever).
Basically if you load in bulk and prefer accurate ammo, it's worth it. If you have either the money or lack of necessity to get around loading though, it'll always save you more time. But I have more time than money, and I actually enjoy loading --that's another thing, if you hate doing it, don't do it. For me it's a zen thing really, the repetative motions and quiet.
I’ve got a friend on here that shoot nothing but factory ammo. He shoots quite a few local and some national and international matches. He does just fine. These are PRS type matches.
I shoot a couple matches a year. I do shoot a fair bit otherwise but only a couple matches. I only shoot handloaded ammo.
We like to give him shit that he would score higher and place higher if he’d start reloading match ammo.
This is the way I see it, I don’t need to see it this way because I load for plenty of other reasons also. If my loads are shooting smaller than factory ammo, if available for my caliber, then when shooting steel plates, I don’t have to be quite as accurate in my hold. His form has to make up for my ammo. If he’s shooting 3/4 moa ammo and I’m shooting 1/4 moa ammo, and we’re shooting at a 1moa plate, then he needs to have a lot less wobble to hit. I can afford a little less stability in the funky positions that you’re sometimes put in during a PRS match.
If factory ammo is shooting good enough for your purposes, and it’s cheap enough that you can afford it. Then rock on man? If not, reloading might be a better idea.
I shoot a couple matches a year. I do shoot a fair bit otherwise but only a couple matches. I only shoot handloaded ammo.
We like to give him shit that he would score higher and place higher if he’d start reloading match ammo.
This is the way I see it, I don’t need to see it this way because I load for plenty of other reasons also. If my loads are shooting smaller than factory ammo, if available for my caliber, then when shooting steel plates, I don’t have to be quite as accurate in my hold. His form has to make up for my ammo. If he’s shooting 3/4 moa ammo and I’m shooting 1/4 moa ammo, and we’re shooting at a 1moa plate, then he needs to have a lot less wobble to hit. I can afford a little less stability in the funky positions that you’re sometimes put in during a PRS match.
If factory ammo is shooting good enough for your purposes, and it’s cheap enough that you can afford it. Then rock on man? If not, reloading might be a better idea.
Target Sports USA, they have it at $267 a case or something like that.
Yeah, are all of these people really selling all of this brass for 70 cents a pop? Is there really that much of a market for brass thats fired out of barrels other than theirs? I know I sure wouldnt spend that much on a potential headache.
Not to say that it can alway be done, but I’ve seen 1x Lapua brass go for $60-80/100 pretty regularly. In fact just saw 3-4x Lapua brass sell for about $40/100. Obviously, whether or not that keeps up is a whole other story.
Factory ammo has come a long ways, Berger and PRIME are turning out some really great ammo, especially in 6.5 Creedmoor.
No, for your described end use there is zero reason for you to reload.
Find a lot # that works really well and buy a barrels worth.
You are not missing anything, for your application it makes plenty of sense to shoot factory ammo as it has shown already to meet your needs.
Personally, I will not use brass from a different chamber but there are plenty of guys who will so selling the fired brass is an option.
Rambling here, but something that would never enter my mind, at that price, perfect way to stockpile brass and break in a rifle if reloading for it was the goal. By my calcs, I could not load new Lapua brass with a hybrid for 1.34 per rd, guess would be around 1.50 first go.
Of coarse I do, if you read exactly what I said, " I could not load new Lapua brass with a hybrid for 1.34 per rd, guess would be around 1.50 first go". Emphasis on new.
One time, one firing, collect brass after is all I meant.
Sheldon mentioned it earlier. I was testing out some of the New 6 mm Prime with the 115 RDFs on Peterson Brass. I was able to place in the Top 20 at the PRS Finale with the stuff and the ammo didn't hold me back even on the sub MOA stuff. I've been reloading for 40 years. the last 10 I've been reloading upwards of 8000 rounds per year and I'm tired of it. All of the money I've spent in the last few years was to make this process faster with out degradation of performance. The Prime ammo is nearly identical to what I already load with an ES of less than 20 and temp stability. I wont reload next year. I'm sick of it. I've throated all of my stuff pretty deep I've found that a good healthy jump of over .100 thou makes for a very stable and accurate chamber. On my 4th one and they break in easy and don't speed up. Additionally since the pressure is much lower in the beginning of the burn the barrel last longer as well. Got 2500 out of the last one.
LOL! I totally misread your challenge!
Yeah... I seem to have the Hannukah-magical barrel! It never burns out! ?
Nonsense. At last calculation my 125 or 135 grain 9mm loads are costing me $95 per 1k.Conversely, by way of example, I can't come close to this price.
Case of Federal 9MM Luger 115GR FMJ Black Pack, 1,000rds - C9115BP250
Federal Champion handgun ammunition is loaded for pounding paper targets with ballistic performance that closely matches comparable Federal Premium loads for the ultimate real-world practice. Federalpalmettostatearmory.com
I do the same as you do, but honestly, I am beyond the cost per rd thing on LR rds, I'm either going to shoot it or not. I'll be dead before my AMP pays for itself, if that is even possible.
Not if you want to consider that your time is $$. The things I’ve spent big money on to speed up the process without losing consistency, I consider pay for itself in my time saved.
Lol, I am retired, no one including myself, or esp my wife, thinks my time is worth shit. When I tell people i do not have the time to do something, eyes roll, I need to replace that lie with "I don't give a fuck" and be done.
Do you have a source for factory loaded 153gr A-Tip 6.5 PRC or 115gr DTAC 6CM? I'm all ears.
I know how you can get factory loaded ammo with any bullet you want.
Tuned to your rifle also.
Nope. And it makes no difference since I’m not shooting either 6.5prc or 6CM.
Many of us, myself included, got into reloading back when 308 was king. Back then, if I wanted 175 FGMM, it was $28 on sale if I was lucky. Today, factory ammo is better and cheaper.
Loading a wildcat or a caliber that isn’t offered cheap at factory, of course you are reloading. I’m so deep into the reloading rabbit hole I would lose money going back to factory.
It has taken me a while to get my process down to damn near perfection, but seeing 1 hole groups with low single digit SD confirms its worth it.
If you dont have time, buy ammo.
If you have time and don’t want to reload, buy ammo.
If you want a wildcat and don’t have time, buy custom loaded ammo.
If you don’t have time or funds to buy ammo, sell all your shit and play Modern Warfare.
Loading a wildcat or a caliber that isn’t offered cheap at factory, of course you are reloading. I’m so deep into the reloading rabbit hole I would lose money going back to factory.
It has taken me a while to get my process down to damn near perfection, but seeing 1 hole groups with low single digit SD confirms its worth it.
If you dont have time, buy ammo.
If you have time and don’t want to reload, buy ammo.
If you want a wildcat and don’t have time, buy custom loaded ammo.
If you don’t have time or funds to buy ammo, sell all your shit and play Modern Warfare.
It was a rhetorical question to a stupid post. I'm sure you'd be happy to load it for me but I doubt I'd be willing to pay you for your effort.
Just stating option for calibers and bullet choice you mentioned.
All good.
Only thing worse is "bullet heads". Hearing people say that is like nails on a chalkboard.
Thats close to my normal cost, my last order I caught some sales and ordered enough bullets to get angry notes from the post office. Really drops the price per round.
I load 9mm for $.11ea without even trying. $.13ea for 40SW. If I bought 20k 9mm or .40 I can get $.03 off the bullets. Powder and primers don't start to come down enough to make it worth it unless I buy 100k loads worth. I only paid $135 for 20k 40SW powder loads.
I was given 200 pieces of once fired 300 norma brass, it was all junk because of an oversized chamber. Cracked a die and learned I will never touch used brass from a gun other than mine. Guy decided to try to reload shortly after, didn't listen and cracked his die. You guys can keep your once fired brass.
Thank you for the insult. It was absolutely necessary and much appreciated. I can now clearly see the err of my ways.
Don't get sanctimonious after starting a troll thread. You knew full well what you were trying to do.
Ah, see that’s where you’re wrong. While I’ll admit the title is a bit clickbaity, the body of the post is honest and genuine. I would appreciate it if you could please explain exactly what it is about the post makes it a “troll post” so that I can avoid such conduct in the future.
