I can't get any serious, consistent accuracy out of my 224 Valkyrie WOA with a 23" Krieger 7"twist bbl. Will the new 22 ARC be a cartridge?
- Thread starter Iron Worker
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I it your only precision gas gun? Almost every issue with gas guns is due to not driving the rifle properly. They aren't forgiving like bolt rifles.
Similar issue with larger .580 bolt face magnums. Its almost never the rifle or ammo.
Similar issue with larger .580 bolt face magnums. Its almost never the rifle or ammo.
Watch the Hornady podcast on the 22 ARC. They talk about the 224 being one of the worst cartridges they have had to get good accurate loads. The reason for the 22ARC was made
I built a 224V shortly after the cartridge came out, but had already developed a questionable rep - I am an experienced handloader and load tuner and didn't mind a challenge. My 224V is AR-15 based, and sports a SS 4-groove heavy contour pre-chambered 20" Kreiger 6.5T, and is a solid build (image). I spent many, many hours loading different bullets, powders, powder charges, seating depths etc. with unacceptable precision (I will only accept excellent precision). I, like many others, was eventually able to develop very good shooting loads, but only after MUCH more effort than usual. My precision load is not typical of others that have shared their working loads, and be warned, I don't give a rat's rear about SD's or MV's, just 5-shot group size on a target.
My precision load is 25.4 gr. H4350 (yes - H4350) using a moly-coated 90gr. SMK in fully prepped Starline brass. Another good load is 23.4gr. Varget with a 77gr. moly SMK (but why bother? my .223 Wylde's shoots 77SMK's with excellent precision). Use of precision loading techniques are a must. These two loads both work for me BUT: I had to cut out the front of my magazines to get a 2.338" COAL for the 90gr. load to achieve good precision. Nothing I did with either 88gr. ELD's or 90gr. SMK's worked until the bullet was loaded longer.
Some other factors:
1) Use the minimum neck tension required to hold the bullet firmly. (BTW - I find this works for virtually all cartridges.)
2) My rifle is only capable of precision when the BCG and bolt are clean and the bolt is free moving and lightly lubricated. If the BCG and bolt get gummed up, precision is gone.
3) This cartridge, with its fast-twist barrel and the heavier bullets, really wants to twist/torque the rifle upon firing. I use a homemade bipod with a wide stance to help control rifle jump and twist. (Image below shows normal and wide-stance bipods.)
Personally, and I've said this before, I believe this cartridge was designed on a bar napkin on a Friday night well into Happy Hour (in a bar close to the Federal office). I would not recommend this cartridge to anyone, and especially anyone who is not an experienced and determined handloader. When this barrel goes south, I'll be moving to a 6ARC or close cousin, perhaps even a 6BR, to get the BC of a 105 Hybrid in a round that will fit in a normal AR-15 mag.
My precision load is 25.4 gr. H4350 (yes - H4350) using a moly-coated 90gr. SMK in fully prepped Starline brass. Another good load is 23.4gr. Varget with a 77gr. moly SMK (but why bother? my .223 Wylde's shoots 77SMK's with excellent precision). Use of precision loading techniques are a must. These two loads both work for me BUT: I had to cut out the front of my magazines to get a 2.338" COAL for the 90gr. load to achieve good precision. Nothing I did with either 88gr. ELD's or 90gr. SMK's worked until the bullet was loaded longer.
Some other factors:
1) Use the minimum neck tension required to hold the bullet firmly. (BTW - I find this works for virtually all cartridges.)
2) My rifle is only capable of precision when the BCG and bolt are clean and the bolt is free moving and lightly lubricated. If the BCG and bolt get gummed up, precision is gone.
3) This cartridge, with its fast-twist barrel and the heavier bullets, really wants to twist/torque the rifle upon firing. I use a homemade bipod with a wide stance to help control rifle jump and twist. (Image below shows normal and wide-stance bipods.)
Personally, and I've said this before, I believe this cartridge was designed on a bar napkin on a Friday night well into Happy Hour (in a bar close to the Federal office). I would not recommend this cartridge to anyone, and especially anyone who is not an experienced and determined handloader. When this barrel goes south, I'll be moving to a 6ARC or close cousin, perhaps even a 6BR, to get the BC of a 105 Hybrid in a round that will fit in a normal AR-15 mag.
Apples and Oranges. Different platform (AR-10 vs. AR-15). Heavier bullet, much higher recoil.
(But I love my 6.5CM too.)
My point was that I just grew weary of trying to get good results, and lost interest ... went to play with other toys. Sold all the 224-V stuff and spent it on 300-BLK and 6.5-CM ... which covered both ends of what I had gotten the 224-V to do. My sense is that for every guy that says "I love my 224-Valkyrie" ... there are 10 guys that can't make it shoot straight no matter how hard they try.
That is a fascinating post. ThanksI built a 224V shortly after the cartridge came out, but had already developed a questionable rep - I am an experienced handloader and load tuner and didn't mind a challenge. My 224V is AR-15 based, and sports a SS 4-groove heavy contour pre-chambered 20" Kreiger 6.5T, and is a solid build (image). I spent many, many hours loading different bullets, powders, powder charges, seating depths etc. with unacceptable precision (I will only accept excellent precision). I, like many others, was eventually able to develop very good shooting loads, but only after MUCH more effort than usual. My precision load is not typical of others that have shared their working loads, and be warned, I don't give a rat's rear about SD's or MV's, just 5-shot group size on a target.
My precision load is 25.4 gr. H4350 (yes - H4350) using a moly-coated 90gr. SMK in fully prepped Starline brass. Another good load is 23.4gr. Varget with a 77gr. moly SMK (but why bother? my .223 Wylde's shoots 77SMK's with excellent precision). Use of precision loading techniques are a must. These two loads both work for me BUT: I had to cut out the front of my magazines to get a 2.338" COAL for the 90gr. load to achieve good precision. Nothing I did with either 88gr. ELD's or 90gr. SMK's worked until the bullet was loaded longer.
Some other factors:
1) Use the minimum neck tension required to hold the bullet firmly. (BTW - I find this works for virtually all cartridges.)
2) My rifle is only capable of precision when the BCG and bolt are clean and the bolt is free moving and lightly lubricated. If the BCG and bolt get gummed up, precision is gone.
3) This cartridge, with its fast-twist barrel and the heavier bullets, really wants to twist/torque the rifle upon firing. I use a homemade bipod with a wide stance to help control rifle jump and twist. (Image below shows normal and wide-stance bipods.)
Personally, and I've said this before, I believe this cartridge was designed on a bar napkin on a Friday night well into Happy Hour (in a bar close to the Federal office). I would not recommend this cartridge to anyone, and especially anyone who is not an experienced and determined handloader. When this barrel goes south, I'll be moving to a 6ARC or close cousin, perhaps even a 6BR, to get the BC of a 105 Hybrid in a round that will fit in a normal AR-15 mag.
So, what is it about this 22ARC that will make it a better cartridge?
I really enjoy my 224 Valkery but decided early on after hearing issues with the 1-7 twist. I went with a 1-6.5 Bartlin ar15 24 in barrel. Shoots very well with the 88 eld. Shoot 3/4 moa ALL day long as long I do my part.
I picked up a CMMG valkyrie upper clearanced when the problems with the cartridge were surfacing. Tried 88 elds and h4350 and never looked back. It's been one of the most accurate ars I've had the pleasure of running. The 24" barrel helps the 1 in 7 twist issue. It has been a great coyote gun and long distance trainer for the kids. Maybe I got lucky but that upper has a permanent home.
I had 6gt case sitting around and had a thought of if the 22gt can fit in a AR15. Well they DO https://sdrifles.com/22-gt-ar15/
To heck with the 22 ARC and Valkyrie. Move on up to this baby.
To heck with the 22 ARC and Valkyrie. Move on up to this baby.
I am not sure why peopel have had so much trouble with Valkirye. I bet probably number one is peopel who think if they can shoot a bolt action they can shoot a semiautomatic. Then there is also what barrel. People like to buy a bargain bin barrel then complain when it's not a laser. There are also those situations where someone bangs their head trying the same bullet or powder over and over when the barrel is clearly saying try something else.
Mine didn't want to shoot the 70rdfs I have. Nothing I own has wanted to shoot them though. Makes me think it's the bullets and not the gun. 60 sierra hp it shoots great.
Mine didn't want to shoot the 70rdfs I have. Nothing I own has wanted to shoot them though. Makes me think it's the bullets and not the gun. 60 sierra hp it shoots great.
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I had trouble with the 224 Valkyrie, so I dissassembled, went back and started over. Different, barrel 6.5 twist, checked out the, as offered, Areo Precision upper ...it needed attention. Center the bolt carrier group, made a huge difference with the 224 Valkyrie, more than any other caliber, also glue in with green bearing sleeve High Temperature loctite. Wax the reciever for easy disassembly. I know its easy for me to do, cause I have machine shop and machine tools, but every caliber bottle neck cartridge can be .5" shooter 5 shot grouper in the AR platform. But sometimes ya gotta do more than just assemble parts. Start with a quality barrel, usually expensive, build your own. That's how I do it.
Now the 224 Valkyrie shoots to my expectations.
Now the 224 Valkyrie shoots to my expectations.
Attachments
Well, working with the 6 ARC has been reminiscent of the torture to get the Valkyrie to shoot. Hornady is a marketing company , not an accuracy outfit. If it sells -sell it.I built a 224V shortly after the cartridge came out, but had already developed a questionable rep - I am an experienced handloader and load tuner and didn't mind a challenge. My 224V is AR-15 based, and sports a SS 4-groove heavy contour pre-chambered 20" Kreiger 6.5T, and is a solid build (image). I spent many, many hours loading different bullets, powders, powder charges, seating depths etc. with unacceptable precision (I will only accept excellent precision). I, like many others, was eventually able to develop very good shooting loads, but only after MUCH more effort than usual. My precision load is not typical of others that have shared their working loads, and be warned, I don't give a rat's rear about SD's or MV's, just 5-shot group size on a target.
My precision load is 25.4 gr. H4350 (yes - H4350) using a moly-coated 90gr. SMK in fully prepped Starline brass. Another good load is 23.4gr. Varget with a 77gr. moly SMK (but why bother? my .223 Wylde's shoots 77SMK's with excellent precision). Use of precision loading techniques are a must. These two loads both work for me BUT: I had to cut out the front of my magazines to get a 2.338" COAL for the 90gr. load to achieve good precision. Nothing I did with either 88gr. ELD's or 90gr. SMK's worked until the bullet was loaded longer.
Some other factors:
1) Use the minimum neck tension required to hold the bullet firmly. (BTW - I find this works for virtually all cartridges.)
2) My rifle is only capable of precision when the BCG and bolt are clean and the bolt is free moving and lightly lubricated. If the BCG and bolt get gummed up, precision is gone.
3) This cartridge, with its fast-twist barrel and the heavier bullets, really wants to twist/torque the rifle upon firing. I use a homemade bipod with a wide stance to help control rifle jump and twist. (Image below shows normal and wide-stance bipods.)
Personally, and I've said this before, I believe this cartridge was designed on a bar napkin on a Friday night well into Happy Hour (in a bar close to the Federal office). I would not recommend this cartridge to anyone, and especially anyone who is not an experienced and determined handloader. When this barrel goes south, I'll be moving to a 6ARC or close cousin, perhaps even a 6BR, to get the BC of a 105 Hybrid in a round that will fit in a normal AR-15 mag.
What barrel?
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