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Rifle Scopes Why no love for Mark 4 with M5 turrets?

USMC 0231

USMC 0231

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 19, 2003
156
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southern New Jersey
I'm looking to start my mil/mil world. I love my Night Force NXS but I can't swing for the FFP. Vortex and Bushnell elite tactical FFP with G2dmr seem to be the right price with the features I want. Leupold Mark 4 FFP with M5 turrets is about 1500 for the 3.5-14. Why isn't this ever in the debate? I have a few Mark 4s with M1 and M3 knobs and they have served me well. My favorite is my leupold with the Premier gen 2 FFP upgrade I had done back in the day.

Do you thing the vortex is better even at its lower price? My thoughts are the Leupold is better then the Vortex but less then the NF NXS.

Thoughts?
 
I own a 4.5-14x mk4 FFP with the m5 turrets and love it and Leupold has one of the best warranty's in the business. Also having used the nightforce equivalent which is the 15x F1, if money were an issue I'd get the leupold.
In my opinion the glass quality is slightly better on the nightforce but not enough to justify the price difference.
 
I enjoy Leupolds, Mil or Moa... If you'd like a solid price on one let me know.
 
^LMAO I have several leupolds and also NXS, to me the nightforce has better glass but that is just my .02
 
I've had a couple of 4.5-14's with the M5's for a couple years. I think they are good. They have never failed on me. The glass if far better than all the PST's everyone raves about. I've wanted to pick up the 6-20 model for a while, but everyone pays too much for them and then prices them too high when they decide to sell them used.
 
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I know about them not being cool or that they are "So yesterday". Since it is FFP and mil/mil I don't see the problem. Would I like a zero stop or illuminated ret? Sure but for a grand less the the new NF and only 500 more then Vortex I think this will be my next scope. I do wish the turrets were more low profile.
 
Wouldn't it be a fairer comparison be a razor hd or Bushnell ERS. You also have the SS 5-20 HD in that price range.
 
For that price look for a used Razor. You will see them pop up here from time to time for $1500-ISH. It can't be beat for that
 
I agree that a Razor will beat it hands down.....I own a couple of both of them. However, if it matters to you, do a size and weight comparison between the Razor and the MK4 M5......if light weight and compact are important to you, the MK4 M5 is hands down the winner.
 
The MK4 M5 I own is 10 times the scope compared to the PST, in my opinion. I own two ffp PST scopes and I still think they are great, but the Leupold has far better glass. The clicks are more audible and positive, I also prefer the TMR reticle compared to the vortex reticle. If money does not matter the Night Force FFP would be my next choice.
 
Thanks so much for the help everybody. I guess that I never put vortex in the same class as leupold. Leupold used to be the standard with NF being ahead. The other concern is that I have a Leupold Mark 4 MLR spotting scope I use for work. The ret is close to my work NF NXS ret so it's good to go. It might be nice for that to match exactly to my rifle scope if I get the mk 4 m5 scope.

Thanks again for all the help and I think I will save up a little more for the Leupold for peace of mind.
 
I think the Leupold Mk4 M5 is great - except the FFP. I have one, and this is the scope the convinced me that for me (LE work), the SFP is better. If Leupold made a Mk4 M5 SFP TMR, I'd be in lust. Add the firedot but still in the same price range, and I'd fap to it.
 
I agree the leupold is far better then the pst. My brother uses a pst and couldn't shoot a coyote due to sun glare and I could with my vx3. We were laying beside each other. I would argue for it even over the razor due to weight savings and size. ounces add up to pounds and pounds suck humping around the mountains. Zero stop and illumination aren't even important to me much less a deal breaker. I'll be sending both my 6.5x20's in when I get the word the new MOA reticle is ready for them. For my new build I'm thinking of getting a mark 4 with M5 unless they come out with it in MOA.
 
I agree with chad44, I have a Mark 4 and an M-3A and have had a VXIII 4.5-14 for years. Leupolds are great. I also just bought a NF NXS and can't wait to take it to the range. I am also waiting for Leupold to bring out the MOA reticle for the 6.5-20, and the 8.5-25...........hurry up Leupold!!!! And for me zero stop and high speed turrets aren't important either. I know for some guys they are necessary but not for the type of hunting and shooting I do. Merry Christmas everyone and God bless our troops!
 
USMC 0231 said:
I'm looking to start my mil/mil world. I love my Night Force NXS but I can't swing for the FFP. Vortex and Bushnell elite tactical FFP with G2dmr seem to be the right price with the features I want. Leupold Mark 4 FFP with M5 turrets is about 1500 for the 3.5-14. Why isn't this ever in the debate? I have a few Mark 4s with M1 and M3 knobs and they have served me well. My favorite is my leupold with the Premier gen 2 FFP upgrade I had done back in the day.

Do you thing the vortex is better even at its lower price? My thoughts are the Leupold is better then the Vortex but less then the NF NXS.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I have a couple leupold M3 scopes and they are pretty good, they seem a bit archaic compared to newer tactical scopes and while the overall quality is good enough it's not on par with Nightforce or the Vortex Razor. The newer M5 turret scopes are neat but when I look at them for 1500 I think of other options I'd rather have. I would definitely take a chance on a steiner 3-12 for 1200-1400 vs the Leupold for example.
 
I own the MK4 M2 2.5-8x36mm. I think the glass is pretty impressive compared to the other scopes i own. It's not on par with my SN-3, but nor should it be. That said i've gotten so used to zero stop i can't really see myself owning a scope without it. The M2 only has one rotation so it technically has zero stop.

It's a nice scope but it needs to be updated. I guess they've technically done that with the newer versions of the mark 4 and the mark 6 lineup. They're just in an entire different price range.
 
I have a mk4 4.5-14 m5 that was my 1st nice scope. Glass is nice to my untrained eye. Tracks well with good clicks. I run it as a hunting scope on my 300WinMag. I think it's a nice light scope. I just got a NF 5.5-22 nxs and have been neglecting the leupold. Think they are both really clear. For the money the mk4 is hard to pass up. It won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
 
I really wish the Mark4 3.5-10 was available in SFP with M5 Knobs and MilDot/TMR Reticle (illuminated or not) :(
 
I was in contact with the Leupold custom Shop in November in regards to having an
existing Mark 4 3.5-10x40 SFP TMR (model 60020), upgraded from M1 to M5 turrets.
At that time, they advised me that such an upgrade is possible, and would cost $195
plus shipping. Leupold also advised me at that time, that any current production
Mark 4 SFP M1 scope (3.5-10, 4.5-14, 6.5-20, 8.5-25) which has an equivalent FFP
model with M5 turrets, can be upgraded to M5 turrets for the same $195 plus shipping.

As an example, using HD1911's post above. He indicated that he was looking for a
Mark 4 3.5-10x40 SFP M1 in either Mil-Dot (model 52128), or TMR (model 60020).
Both of these scopes have equivalent FFP M5 versions: model 110080(Mil-Dot), or
model 110074(TMR). Because of this, the parts exist to be able to upgrade any
Mark 4 3.5-10x40 SFP M1 scope to M5 turrets.
 
PBR-XP FAN said:
I was in contact with the Leupold custom Shop in November in regards to having an
existing Mark 4 3.5-10x40 SFP TMR (model 60020), upgraded from M1 to M5 turrets.
At that time, they advised me that such an upgrade is possible, and would cost $195
plus shipping. Leupold also advised me at that time, that any current production
Mark 4 SFP M1 scope (3.5-10, 4.5-14, 6.5-20, 8.5-25) which has an equivalent FFP
model with M5 turrets, can be upgraded to M5 turrets for the same $195 plus shipping.

As an example, using HD1911's post above. He indicated that he was looking for a
Mark 4 3.5-10x40 SFP M1 in either Mil-Dot (model 52128), or TMR (model 60020).
Both of these scopes have equivalent FFP M5 versions: model 110080(Mil-Dot), or
model 110074(TMR). Because of this, the parts exist to be able to upgrade any
Mark 4 3.5-10x40 SFP M1 scope to M5 turrets.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. thanks for that info.

I would obviously like to buy the scope from the Factory already with M5 knobs in SFP with TMR/MilDot without being up charged $200.... but that's in a perfect world I guess.
 
HD1911,

I agree with you. There is no reason, in my mind, why Leupold should still be
making any of the Mark 4 scopes, whether SFP or FFP, with mis-matched
reticle and turrets. If a Mark 4 has M1/M2/M3(MOA) turrets, it should have
an "MOA-calibrated" version of the TMR reticle factory installed. If a Mark 4
scope has M5(MRAD) turrets, it should have an "MRAD-calibrated" version
of the TMR reticle factory installed.

This change alone, in my mind, would go a long ways in eliminating a lot of
the criticism leveled against Leupold in the tactical shooting community. If
Vortex can offer matched reticles and turrets in scopes costing half of what
their competitors model's do, why can't Leupold do the same, especially when
they already have most of the components on hand to do so??
 
Last edited:
PBR-XP FAN said:
HD1911,

I agree with you. There is no reason, in my mind, why Leupold should still be
making any of the Mark 4 scopes, whether SFP or FFP, with mis-matched
reticle and turrets. If a Mark 4 has M1/M2/M3(MOA) turrets, it should have
an "MOA-calibrated" version of the TMR reticle factory installed. If a Mark 4
scope has M5(MRAD) turrets, it should have an "MRAD-calibrated" version
of the TMR reticle factory installed.

This change alone, in my mind, would go a long ways in eliminating a lot of
the criticism leveled against Leupold in the tactical shooting community. If
Vortex can offer matched reticles and turrets in scopes costing half of what
their competitors model's do, why can't Leupold do the same, especially when
they already have most of the components on hand to do so??
Click to expand...

completely agree Bud.
 
deadnbrkn84 said:
For that price look for a used Razor. You will see them pop up here from time to time for $1500-ISH. It can't be beat for that
Click to expand...

I just got a used TMR/M5 in excellent shape for $1k, though I doubt it will match my Swarovski or Nightforce scopes, it seems hard to beat at that price.
 
I have a 3.5-10x40 with mil-dot and M5 knobs. My complaints are that there is no illuminated reticle option and the parallax doesn't have distances listed. Other than that, it is a great scope. It tracks dead-on and the glass is very clear. The low light capabilities don't compare to Zeiss or USO, but you have to spend another $1k for those. I don't think there are many better options for mid-priced scopes.

In full disclosure, I don't hunt with this scope anymore. The FFP is very difficult to see at 3.5x for the last couple minutes of visible light - an illuminated reticle or SFP reticle would fix this. I have relegated this scope to a range gun in favor of the two other brands I mentioned for hunting purposes.
 
whitebread said:
I have a 3.5-10x40 with mil-dot and M5 knobs. My complaints are that there is no illuminated reticle option and the parallax doesn't have distances listed. Other than that, it is a great scope. It tracks dead-on and the glass is very clear. The low light capabilities don't compare to Zeiss or USO, but you have to spend another $1k for those. I don't think there are many better options for mid-priced scopes.

In full disclosure, I don't hunt with this scope anymore. The FFP is very difficult to see at 3.5x for the last couple minutes of visible light - an illuminated reticle or SFP reticle would fix this. I have relegated this scope to a range gun in favor of the two other brands I mentioned for hunting purposes.
Click to expand...

That's my whole point....just think IF Leupold put that same scope in SFP and Illum. Configuration....
 
Not to bring up an old thread but lol. I wound up getting the Leupold Mark 6 3-18. Great price from Liberty Optic. Thanks for all the great comments
 
I've had several Leupy's and never been disappointed with any of them. My last one was a Mark 4 with M5 turrets. I'd put it up against a Gen 1 razor any day. I bought my 6.5-20 for $1500 and it was a great investment. For the money, you can't go wrong with one IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If leupold came out with a mk4 5-20 FFP tmr with illumination and 10-mil turrets they'd be in good shape. I love mk4's and would surely be interested if they made this scope an option. But of course if it's illuminated it'll prolly up the msrp $750.

*Edited* for two grand.
 
Last edited:
hypno02 said:
If leupold came out with a mk4 5-20 FFP tmr with illumination and 10-mil turrets they'd be in good shape. I love mk4's and would surely be interested if they made this scope an option. But of course if it's illuminated it'll prolly up the msrp $750.
Click to expand...

They sorta do... 6.5-20x50 with 34mm tube and 10 mil/rev M5A2 locking turret. TMR reticle is an option along with H27 and H58. No illumination though...

Leupold 67810 Mark 4 ERT 6.5-20x50 Riflescope for sale!
 
I have the mark 4 6.5x20 M5 TMR and love it. We were trying to hit cans at 1k and the open center in the TMR is sweet for that. Not sure how you can get much better glass. I've had it in low light and it was awesome. I hunt with it so the weight of the razor and night force wasn't even an option.
 
www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/265072-mark-6-3-18-question-problem.html
 
The Bushnells are an excellent value, Scott at Liberty optics has great prices. Mile High has them on sale right now even lower. The 10 Mil / ZS models are running about 1200. That's a shit ton of scope for for the money. Call Scott first I'll bet he works something out with you if you have sale prices from elsewhere, awesome dude.
 
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