Unreliable poorly build garbage design surpassed by virtually everything else on the market.
That is why.
That is why.
Why no love for the Savage
- Thread starter L2bravo
- Start date
Thanks for the input be it positive or negative, guys. Going back out on our OWN land to shoot tomorrow. We're doing what works for us in our budget and banging steel.
There is one word that describes why we hate Savage - Tikka.
Pretty much Tikka was like a hot scandanacian virgin showing up at the $20 hooker counter.
Yeah, Shankster liked the $20 hooker line and would usually buy it out down to the last midget and tranny, And yeah, it’s still sex even when that thing is smoking BEFORE you get up in there...
I have the most insane custom gun ever. Badger action, proof barrel, yada yada yada. $7k gun. An AI Ax in 338. JP LRP07.
The $1500 tikka ctr in a whiskey 3 is 9/10 of those guns. The $800 ctr in its factory stock was 8/10 of those guns. And the $600 savage? It was 1/10 of those guns.
Pretty much Tikka was like a hot scandanacian virgin showing up at the $20 hooker counter.
Yeah, Shankster liked the $20 hooker line and would usually buy it out down to the last midget and tranny, And yeah, it’s still sex even when that thing is smoking BEFORE you get up in there...
I have the most insane custom gun ever. Badger action, proof barrel, yada yada yada. $7k gun. An AI Ax in 338. JP LRP07.
The $1500 tikka ctr in a whiskey 3 is 9/10 of those guns. The $800 ctr in its factory stock was 8/10 of those guns. And the $600 savage? It was 1/10 of those guns.
When I bought my first Stag Model 6, the G/S Owner showed me a 100yd target with his own Model 6 and PPU 75gr Match. I was very skeptical.
But I bought some of that and some of the 69gr, too. The 75 was able to deliver the then current Stag 6's 1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee repeatedly, like a lotta repeatedly. So I bought two cases of it. This was in the late 1990's.
I also bought a dangload of PPU 55gr FMJBT because it was dirt cheap and Obama was Obambamming. The 75's brass is great for handloading and the 55 has turned out the same to the limits of my ability to prove otherwise.
The 55 brass makes fairly good practice ammo for 100yd training, too; as long as it's being run through a decent rifle. When I started back at loading the 308, I bought PPU 308 brass from Midway and never had to look back.
So, I believe I understand your displeasure with the PPU, but I just want to state that I have found that there are several kinds of PPU, and that their Match stuff works fine for me.
Greg
But I bought some of that and some of the 69gr, too. The 75 was able to deliver the then current Stag 6's 1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee repeatedly, like a lotta repeatedly. So I bought two cases of it. This was in the late 1990's.
I also bought a dangload of PPU 55gr FMJBT because it was dirt cheap and Obama was Obambamming. The 75's brass is great for handloading and the 55 has turned out the same to the limits of my ability to prove otherwise.
The 55 brass makes fairly good practice ammo for 100yd training, too; as long as it's being run through a decent rifle. When I started back at loading the 308, I bought PPU 308 brass from Midway and never had to look back.
So, I believe I understand your displeasure with the PPU, but I just want to state that I have found that there are several kinds of PPU, and that their Match stuff works fine for me.
Greg
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I shoot about 3k pistol rounds a month. Ppu is the worst by far. It chronos all over the place, and power runs weak to stout, all in the same box. It used to be good stuff, no doubt. Somewhere along the road, only my opinion, something changed. I hate it on every level now.
Here is my current Savage build.
Not sure why everyone is so down on them. Feels great and runs perfect.
Best factory or custom trigger I’ve ever felt.
Go Savage!
Not sure why everyone is so down on them. Feels great and runs perfect.
Best factory or custom trigger I’ve ever felt.
Go Savage!
You better have a second look at the post you quoted.
Hi,
@Dthomas3523
Is that the new SBR that Savage is rumored to be displaying at 2019 SHOT Show?
I hope they can figure out the muzzle flash because the ones tested at NSWC Crane had horrible flash.
Sincerely,
Theis
@Dthomas3523
Is that the new SBR that Savage is rumored to be displaying at 2019 SHOT Show?
I hope they can figure out the muzzle flash because the ones tested at NSWC Crane had horrible flash.
Sincerely,
Theis
Been referring to the Savage set for several weeks lately, and many references to Short Actions are either missing or marked 'discontinued'.
There is a big transition going on with the Accue-Fit stock, but that seems to be limited to Long actions.
This leaves me wondering whether the SA is eliminated permanently, or being withdrawn while a similar Accue-Fit setup is being developed for the SA.
Does anyone have any straight scoop on this?
Greg
There is a big transition going on with the Accue-Fit stock, but that seems to be limited to Long actions.
This leaves me wondering whether the SA is eliminated permanently, or being withdrawn while a similar Accue-Fit setup is being developed for the SA.
Does anyone have any straight scoop on this?
Greg
For some idiotic reason Savage has abandoned the old 10/110 SA/LA naming system for a standard 110 series across to board. That is why you're seeing many of the 10/11/12 series of rifles "discontinued".
Below is a writeup of the change from last year.
http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?441-Savage-Arms-Reinventing-the-Model-110
I have owned several centerfire Savages over the years and used to love them. They were very accurate out of the box. The triggers (pre accutrigger) sucked but were very easy to improve. Mine always went bang, never had an extraction issue. I quit mine because they didn't feed reliably and I got tired of it. The very heavy bolt lift also never felt great.
I think Savage has issues designing a good feed system or they wouldn't have changed it so many times. This can be cured if your rifle is using an AI mag system.
Also, you can drop in a bolt lift kit, but I think you'll likely find your rifle decocking if run to hard/quickly.
The floating bolt head and barrel nut (although ugly) really do help make these rifles more accurate. If you're shooting casually a Savage may suit your needs just fine. But run em hard or need to be able to count on firing that second, third, fouth and so on round and you might start to understand why not everyone loves them.
For me, I can't see spending the money on a new Savage for what you can buy a Howa or Tikka for. Howa specifically is my budget rifle of choice (I own five btw, all sub moa, none with any kind of feeding, extracting, or ejecting issues) and what I recommend if someone asks for a sub $600-1000 rifle.
I think Savage has issues designing a good feed system or they wouldn't have changed it so many times. This can be cured if your rifle is using an AI mag system.
Also, you can drop in a bolt lift kit, but I think you'll likely find your rifle decocking if run to hard/quickly.
The floating bolt head and barrel nut (although ugly) really do help make these rifles more accurate. If you're shooting casually a Savage may suit your needs just fine. But run em hard or need to be able to count on firing that second, third, fouth and so on round and you might start to understand why not everyone loves them.
For me, I can't see spending the money on a new Savage for what you can buy a Howa or Tikka for. Howa specifically is my budget rifle of choice (I own five btw, all sub moa, none with any kind of feeding, extracting, or ejecting issues) and what I recommend if someone asks for a sub $600-1000 rifle.
Bought a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 CM last year for like $400ish with rebates. Shot a bunch this year....put it in an MDT chassis with an XLT buttstock and an Atlas Bipod etc....My first precision rifle. It has never failed to feed, failed to extract, nor given me any trouble. It is currently shooting sub .5 MOA out to 600 yards with hand loads.
I'm a fool. I love my Savage as it has not given me any reason not to. Runs like a top and shoots where I aim it - I'm the weak link, not the gun.
If I had it to do all over again I'd probably do the same thing....when I burn this barrel l out next year I'll probably just mount a high end barrel and continue until I burn the second barrel out. I have $2K invested including chassis, stock, scope, bipod and rails/extras. I shoot every bit as good as my Nephew and his gun buddies and my brother and his gun buddies running custom guns out to $10K - some of these guys compete. I don't.
It's not a one size fits all deal. I'm very happy with my Savage and bang for the buck it's serving me well. Maybe not for everyone but it works for me.
VooDoo
I'm a fool. I love my Savage as it has not given me any reason not to. Runs like a top and shoots where I aim it - I'm the weak link, not the gun.
If I had it to do all over again I'd probably do the same thing....when I burn this barrel l out next year I'll probably just mount a high end barrel and continue until I burn the second barrel out. I have $2K invested including chassis, stock, scope, bipod and rails/extras. I shoot every bit as good as my Nephew and his gun buddies and my brother and his gun buddies running custom guns out to $10K - some of these guys compete. I don't.
It's not a one size fits all deal. I'm very happy with my Savage and bang for the buck it's serving me well. Maybe not for everyone but it works for me.
VooDoo
That is the important part. If you've bought something and it serves you well and you're happy with it and you've not experienced any short comings then good for you.
Yeah, that's a lot like how I feel on the subject. Clearly, a lot of folks are finding dissatisfaction with the Savage design. While some of it is bound to be subjective and based on unmet expectations; no small part of that dissatisfaction has a basis in hard facts.
To the first set, I think it may well be unrealistic to expect, custom performance from an economy setup; but the same action gets used on more sophisticated models and in such applications, predictable malfunctions are simply unacceptable. But these are also subject to ongoing upgrades and improvements. Much of this comes from recognition that user expectations are rising, and also that the industry-wide issues, like safety, are not going to go away all by themselves.
While many might prefer different approaches, the actual upgrades like the Accue-Trigger solve real issues, and meet the original design goals. Do they need refinement? They apparently do, but no degree of breast beating on sites like this will improve on that. The maker needs to know precisely what the gripe is before they can address it in a positive manner. So when griping here, please include some account of how the manufacturer responded to your notification. It's just the right thing to do.
AHC322, thank you especially or the info about the changes that are undergoing at Savage, I had clearly achieved a clean miss on that stuff. IMHO, when Savage does them, they result in a a better product. But that's simply my opinion.
Some years back in the early twenty-ohs, I was able to chat with Bob Greenleaf about his ongoing work on the original Nick Brewer-designed Savage 110. Several of the features, like the barrel nut and floating bolt head, were done to simplify and speed production, but also, especially as with the floating bolt head, had a demonstrated benefit to accuracy while also eliminating some individual machining steps that went against the grain of the basic replaceable parts doctrine which was, in fact, a consequence of revolutionary firearms manufacturing practice.
I've had a few hiccups regarding Savage rifles of mine, but the newest one to do so was made in 2001. It has had the aftermarket cocking force modification, and now runs very smooth. It also had a Sharpshooter trigger upgrade that was made to bring my rifle up to speed with the newer Savages that were in production at that time (while they were waiting for the in-house Accu-Trigger to come to maket). It also has a McMillan A3 stock, and has had the barrel replaced with a Lothar-Walther Premium Savage contour varmint barrel. it's not all that much of an original Savage these days, but mechanically, none of the replacements differ in any great degree from what was factory stock at the time of the upgrade (2002-2003). Yes, this rifle has had extractor failures, but they all trace back to overloaded cartridges blowing primers. Only the first one, the modified one, has had any history of malfunction.
This Savage rifle and four others have been in my use for along time, and in some instances, decades. I hear and see more examples of unacceptable failure in other brands, notably Remingtons (off-center chambers, bad crowns, barrels cocked at angles, none of which problems seem to make much noise around here despite their seriously unacceptable frequency) than I have seen with my own rifles.
So yes, folks complain, and are often dead-on correct.
But any emphasis that Savage rifles are the only rifles or worst rifles that have issues are misleading, and often IMHO deliberately so. Some folks just gotta make themselves look big by making others look small.
My Savage work.
Greg
To the first set, I think it may well be unrealistic to expect, custom performance from an economy setup; but the same action gets used on more sophisticated models and in such applications, predictable malfunctions are simply unacceptable. But these are also subject to ongoing upgrades and improvements. Much of this comes from recognition that user expectations are rising, and also that the industry-wide issues, like safety, are not going to go away all by themselves.
While many might prefer different approaches, the actual upgrades like the Accue-Trigger solve real issues, and meet the original design goals. Do they need refinement? They apparently do, but no degree of breast beating on sites like this will improve on that. The maker needs to know precisely what the gripe is before they can address it in a positive manner. So when griping here, please include some account of how the manufacturer responded to your notification. It's just the right thing to do.
AHC322, thank you especially or the info about the changes that are undergoing at Savage, I had clearly achieved a clean miss on that stuff. IMHO, when Savage does them, they result in a a better product. But that's simply my opinion.
Some years back in the early twenty-ohs, I was able to chat with Bob Greenleaf about his ongoing work on the original Nick Brewer-designed Savage 110. Several of the features, like the barrel nut and floating bolt head, were done to simplify and speed production, but also, especially as with the floating bolt head, had a demonstrated benefit to accuracy while also eliminating some individual machining steps that went against the grain of the basic replaceable parts doctrine which was, in fact, a consequence of revolutionary firearms manufacturing practice.
I've had a few hiccups regarding Savage rifles of mine, but the newest one to do so was made in 2001. It has had the aftermarket cocking force modification, and now runs very smooth. It also had a Sharpshooter trigger upgrade that was made to bring my rifle up to speed with the newer Savages that were in production at that time (while they were waiting for the in-house Accu-Trigger to come to maket). It also has a McMillan A3 stock, and has had the barrel replaced with a Lothar-Walther Premium Savage contour varmint barrel. it's not all that much of an original Savage these days, but mechanically, none of the replacements differ in any great degree from what was factory stock at the time of the upgrade (2002-2003). Yes, this rifle has had extractor failures, but they all trace back to overloaded cartridges blowing primers. Only the first one, the modified one, has had any history of malfunction.
This Savage rifle and four others have been in my use for along time, and in some instances, decades. I hear and see more examples of unacceptable failure in other brands, notably Remingtons (off-center chambers, bad crowns, barrels cocked at angles, none of which problems seem to make much noise around here despite their seriously unacceptable frequency) than I have seen with my own rifles.
So yes, folks complain, and are often dead-on correct.
But any emphasis that Savage rifles are the only rifles or worst rifles that have issues are misleading, and often IMHO deliberately so. Some folks just gotta make themselves look big by making others look small.
My Savage work.
Greg
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