Wait....seriously? We need a thread to discuss the stupid shit we hear from other shooters.
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Let’s consider the bolder part of this sentence given that it is 2019 and the 142 SMK is not the only decent choice for long range 6.5 shooting. Oh wait, it’s not really even in the running anymore as a best choice for Lr 6.5 shooting.
Point being that the whole .260 having mag length problems hasn’t existed for at least the past 5 years. With the advent of better bullet designs and choices and more magazine options, this issue just isn’t an issue anymore. Yes, when the 142 SMK was the only decent bullet option and the original AIAC magazine was the only decent magazine option, the design of the 142 often demanded seating longer than mags available at the time would reasonably accommodate.
All that having been said, the 6.5 Creedmoor is a more modern and efficient design. Just let’s not repeat old news as being valid these days unless there’s real reason to do so.
Hi,
Can't we just stroll back a few decades and revamp the 6.5 Lapua Magnum with modern monolithics and advanced knowledge of twist rates and such.....stop playing patty cake with inferior MVs....
Sincerely,
Theis
Can't we just stroll back a few decades and revamp the 6.5 Lapua Magnum with modern monolithics and advanced knowledge of twist rates and such.....stop playing patty cake with inferior MVs....
Sincerely,
Theis
Fair enough. I don't care either way. I do agree that the 6.5 Creed is a more modern design, no argument there. It's not my intention to start a cartridge debate. Stick with your 260 or your Creed. Makes no difference to me.
Bottom line is the 6.5 Creed has enjoyed unprecedented market support since it's inception.
Wow! and as ridiculous as that is, even the RPR has been around long enough to not be a fad lol.
I've actually heard that one on the Hide a few times. And there is a stupid stuff thread somewhere around here.
I can see that there might bea throat erosion issue with the one on the left. I’m guessing the “FMB” Stands for F#$k My Barrel...
Being in the business for approx. 17 years, seen many things and the 6.5 was one of them. Around 5-6 years ago customers started asking on a regular basis for 6.5cm with limited availability on the shelve. Around 3 years ago it was every day asking, most times the only asking for rifles. Walk up and calls, what do you have 6.5 CM, insert their favorite manufacture; do you have, when will you have, when will they make, why don't they make, why don't they make more. The manufactures listened (possible the best marketing strategy in history) and availably grew with quick turn time off the shelves. Over about a 1.5 year period, at no time we didn't have some 6.5cm on order. Also during this ammo/bullets flew off the shelf. Customers would buy hundreds of dollars, even saw 1k a few times of 6.5cm. Not to start an argument as the 6.5cm is top shelf cartridge, the marketing strategy was more top shelf. I have walked into some gun shops that had a whole section display of just 6.5cm with big signs posted.
I heard some wild claims, even had a minor argument not too long ago that no other cartridge is as accurate, he basically got in my face, no 6.5CM will shoot outside .5moa so don't tell me that gun has a 1moa guarantee, its .5moa maybe .25moa, its that accurate. I heard its a one shot instant death cartridge to insert a distance, its a laser beam out to mile I don't to have hold over, with thrown in there I cant miss with it from steel bangers to hunters, yadda yadda.
Over the last year and half or so, the demand has and is in rapid decline but again, all guns sales are. Its possible there are lots of buyers remorse now as they don't need, don't want it now, I need coin for ??? and its time to unload my 6.5cm with many thinking there still is that high demand super awesomeness I had yet will keep my 06, 308, 270, etc. You can insert most of this with, will you buy my 6.5, can I place it on consignment, etc.
Not to hurt feelings, yes there are plenty of shooters who still have invested interest but not the masses or even the more than average shooter / hunter.
Current guns sales are those who want a bottom price point.
I heard some wild claims, even had a minor argument not too long ago that no other cartridge is as accurate, he basically got in my face, no 6.5CM will shoot outside .5moa so don't tell me that gun has a 1moa guarantee, its .5moa maybe .25moa, its that accurate. I heard its a one shot instant death cartridge to insert a distance, its a laser beam out to mile I don't to have hold over, with thrown in there I cant miss with it from steel bangers to hunters, yadda yadda.
Over the last year and half or so, the demand has and is in rapid decline but again, all guns sales are. Its possible there are lots of buyers remorse now as they don't need, don't want it now, I need coin for ??? and its time to unload my 6.5cm with many thinking there still is that high demand super awesomeness I had yet will keep my 06, 308, 270, etc. You can insert most of this with, will you buy my 6.5, can I place it on consignment, etc.
Not to hurt feelings, yes there are plenty of shooters who still have invested interest but not the masses or even the more than average shooter / hunter.
Current guns sales are those who want a bottom price point.
I’d imagine a lot of ill informed casual shooters also bought a 6.5cm and never shoot past 600 (probably 300) and realized all the other guns they own do fine inside that range.
Just about to burn out a second barrel in my first custom rifle, 6.5 CM. Settled on the 6.5 as my first thinking I could use it for everything from 300-1300, which I did. My next barrel will be a 6BRA because I’m shooting more regularly at 500-1000 and I’m looking for a little more accuracy/consistency in that range.
Also added a custom 223 that is an absolute blast to shoot from 300-1000 with 75 ELDM, but damn, wind is a bitch.
(Who am I kidding, this is more addiction than hobby, I’ll probably just build another)
Also added a custom 223 that is an absolute blast to shoot from 300-1000 with 75 ELDM, but damn, wind is a bitch.
(Who am I kidding, this is more addiction than hobby, I’ll probably just build another)
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Yep, its actually just a 243ai. I was poking fun at the fact guys will change some small detail of a cartridge and poof, game changer never been done before. Lol.
Throat has only moved 25 thou in 1300rds, but its mild for an ackley.
6.5 is not the new cool and manufacturers need to sell stuff. Soo, lets talk about the benefits of the 6.9 dashing, naked super swift valkyrie blackout! Lots of casual shooters will jump on and off of whatever is new and "better." It's true in almost every industry. I got a 6 creed because it was $800 and I plan to shoot it until I'm better than the gun. Gonna be awhile.
I agree with others that brought up the people that thought they wanted to shoot long range and quickly realized that it wasn't for them or it wasn't as easy as some make it out to be on YouTube. I shot with my brother's buddy that bought an rpr in 6.5 creedmoor and he was rather frustrated at 980 yards that day. He had the rifle a while and he hit all around the plate but only hit the 12" gong a couple times. I was shooting my 6.5 saum because I expected the wind to be bad. He decided that he was going to buy another rifle in a magnum after he shot my rifle a few times and hit all but one shot.
6.5 Creedmoor might have been a fad when I bought my first 6.5 Creedmoor barrel 8 years ago but a box of 140 grain Amax cost about as much as a box of .308 FGMM which was the box ammo standard for .308.
6.5x47 was always the $$$ option and visible because the 6.5 Grendle fad is probably what made people look at 6.5mm cartridges more.
.260 never grabbed any big chunk of the market for one reason or another.
It's funny that .260 fans like to shit on 6.5 Creedmoor because it got popular.
To me the 6mm stuff is the fad, you barely heard a whisper about any before 6.5 Creedmoor came along but I think some of them might be older.
But there is nothing wrong with fads, it's how knowledge is created and if they don't work, they go away as soon as the next new hotness comes around.
6.5 Creedmoor is not going anywhere. No one asks why so many .308s are for sale (there are plenty).
Another thing no one is asking is why so many .308s aren't for sale and that's because no one is buying.
6.5x47 was always the $$$ option and visible because the 6.5 Grendle fad is probably what made people look at 6.5mm cartridges more.
.260 never grabbed any big chunk of the market for one reason or another.
It's funny that .260 fans like to shit on 6.5 Creedmoor because it got popular.
To me the 6mm stuff is the fad, you barely heard a whisper about any before 6.5 Creedmoor came along but I think some of them might be older.
But there is nothing wrong with fads, it's how knowledge is created and if they don't work, they go away as soon as the next new hotness comes around.
6.5 Creedmoor is not going anywhere. No one asks why so many .308s are for sale (there are plenty).
Another thing no one is asking is why so many .308s aren't for sale and that's because no one is buying.
Are there .260 fans making fun of the 6.5 Creedmoor these days? Maybe 8 years ago, but any reasonable .260 shooter knows that the marketing support for the 6.5 makes it more popular. As it should be. When I started shooting .260, 6.5 Creed was only a new cartridge with the promise of Hornady brass to come.
.260 shooters past always lamented about the complete lack of support for the round. This absolutely opened the door for a redesign by a company that decided to go all in and actually support their round.
The same could be said for the .243. It’s still a good round, but improvements and advancements make any number of new 6s a better choice for a competitor today. It might still be a couple years before 6 Creedmoor offers the average hunter a choice of off the shelf options in every LGS and box store like the 6.5 currently enjoys.
.260 shooters past always lamented about the complete lack of support for the round. This absolutely opened the door for a redesign by a company that decided to go all in and actually support their round.
The same could be said for the .243. It’s still a good round, but improvements and advancements make any number of new 6s a better choice for a competitor today. It might still be a couple years before 6 Creedmoor offers the average hunter a choice of off the shelf options in every LGS and box store like the 6.5 currently enjoys.
Low recoil, enough power to hunt with for 90%+ of mid-sized north american scenarios, easy to load for, factory ammo good enough to go buy a cheap gun and affordable ammo and go right out and start shooting moderately sized targets out to 1,000 yards, even for relative beginner shooters. If that isn't revolutionary, I'm not sure what is. It essentially took the 308 and improved it in almost every conceivable way. Not huge improvements, but lots of moderate improvements to a round that was already quite good. I doubt we'll ever see a round in my lifetime that is such a game-changer. In new rifles today, 6.5 outsells everything else, by a lot, and it isn't mass market stupidity.
I am guessing most either want a different action, even if it is to put another 6.5 barrel on it, or they just want out.
Having said that, I think the .308 is a better option for many. I see a lot of guys try to keep their 6.5/6's cool because they can't even contemplate putting a new barrel on a rifle. They look at me like I am some freak when I tell them I order new barrels when I get to 800 rounds so I have one waiting when they current one is done.
Having said that, I think the .308 is a better option for many. I see a lot of guys try to keep their 6.5/6's cool because they can't even contemplate putting a new barrel on a rifle. They look at me like I am some freak when I tell them I order new barrels when I get to 800 rounds so I have one waiting when they current one is done.
I can't really think of any situation where the .308 will be better, just situations where the differences won't be apparent.
.308 does have better barrel life and potentially cheaper surplus ammo but if you're shooting for accuracy you won't be shooting surplus ammo and you would probably trade the barrel life for the BC which is why so many people have.
.308 does have better barrel life and potentially cheaper surplus ammo but if you're shooting for accuracy you won't be shooting surplus ammo and you would probably trade the barrel life for the BC which is why so many people have.
Only real situation is an LE agency that either has a ton of .308 ammo or if they train enough to burn barrels out that could save some money with staying with .308.
Other than that, 6.5cm wins most any other scenario.
I don't know about that. Out to a grand a 308 with good bullets does well. 20 years ago, not so much. Things are different these days. One of my 308's still has the factory barrel and spanks my custom 6.5 out to 800.
Maybe it's because you are shooting with the wrong hand?
Eh, that seems a little sensational, but I do agree your last line that the 6.5 Creed’s popularity isn’t ALL marketing.
There’s a reason the military is moving to 6.5 Creed, and it’s not because it’s a market fad or media darling; it’s because it increases hit probability at distance for the average soldier by something like 40%.
The real-world performance gap between the Creed and the 7.62x51 is actually much more impressive than the ballistics hair splitting, which is quite the rare accomplishment.
I think the growth of the sport is a factor, I am new in the last year bought a RPR in 6.5CM, love it and having a blast. I am now in the process of building another 6.5CM, I plan to keep the RPR but may move it to fund the next project if it just sits. I imagine there are many before me that did a similar thing with a RPR, Tikka, Savage, etc.
I got my 6.5 before the "fad" !!!! AWESOMENESS!!!!!
Seems like a decent amount have 500-1200 rounds through them and are 1/3-close to needing a new barrel.
6.5 is great. It makes the wind a lot less of a factor for smoking targets And varmints for people that have more money than time. Even at closer ranges
6.5 is great. It makes the wind a lot less of a factor for smoking targets And varmints for people that have more money than time. Even at closer ranges
Which was by design. When the 6.5 Creedmoor was designed, the premise was to have light recoil, flat shooting, made from readily available components for reloading (which is why Hornady used to put the load data on the box), and be produced in quantities sufficient to meet demands. The reason the round has done so well is because WE, the LR community, tried it, lived it, hyped it and, more importantly, bought it and recommended it to everyone, and most manufacturers, both rifle and ammunition, listened.
I think it was 2014 when we were on the old Hide and we were discussing whether the 308 was now obsolete because of the 6.5 Creedmoor. I remember Frank had a post that led to a lengthy conversation on 6.5 Creedmoor v. 308. Soon, we'd see an explosion of new shooters to the sport, thanks in my opinion to the release of the RPR, and a bunch of new offerings in 6.5 Creedmoor by ammo makers in response to demand. Once they saw the success of Hornady's loaded ammo, they quickly followed suit.
Edit: And if you want to see why the 260 never developed into what the 6.5 Creedmoor became, you can thank Remington for screwing that up! As usual, Remington introduced the cartridge, then did jack shit to support it! They could've cornered the market and gotten the lion's share of the shooters interest. Instead, they offered crap like 10-twist barrels and never bothered to push the 260, so even though the ballistics are nearly identical, you have ten or fifteen 6.5 Creedmoor shooters for every 260 shooter. But what else can you expect from a rifle maker that was so out of touch with what the shooters wanted that they didn't even start chambering their rifles in the ultra-popular 6.5 Creedmoor until around 2017!
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Remington really stepped on their pee pee’s with the 260.
Right now is a good time to be a 260 fan though.
Good brass
Good bullets
Good powders
Roomy mags
Good times.
Looking forward to my third 260 barrel.
Right now is a good time to be a 260 fan though.
Good brass
Good bullets
Good powders
Roomy mags
Good times.
Looking forward to my third 260 barrel.
Ive had 4-5 6.5's and loved them, but then got on the 6mm wagon for a while and loved it even more.. but just ordered a m77 long range in 6.5. It's a great all round cartridge. The extra barrel life is the only reason I go with it over the 6mm, for now anyways. I just do 300-1000 yard practice and matches, so the 6.5 works great for that.
I have been debating on a 22 cal to build. either 223AI or 224V in a bolt gun.
I have been debating on a 22 cal to build. either 223AI or 224V in a bolt gun.
Could one argue that the rise in ar platform popularity and creed popularity are fairly linked?
I wouldn't go that far. AR10 popularity is nowhere near AR15.
I never jumped on 6.5 creed till last year,shot a 260,7-300/28 nosler and many 6 creed barrels along with 338lapua impr 7 mag and 300 win and 6 bra,but I have to admit I’m quite fond of it for prs type matches,good energy and splash crazy accurate good barrel life and 2980 FPS with 140 hybrids that will flat drive tacks I think I will order a couple more barrels
Never really caught on to the .260 or the .308, as I'm still stuck on the 6.5 Swede and 30-06. I am however gonna try my hand at twisting up a 6.5 CM. What is old is new again, just a new generation of shooters and a plethera of new bullets, and even those new bullets, are old designs revamped/marketed for the new crowd. Aluminum tipped Hornady's(1st generation Nat. Match Amax) have been around for over 30 years.
TM6
TM6
That's pretty quick. Can you share your load? Thanks.
Just went to my first prs match to observe/work before I jump in to shooting at a match.
Lots of people shooting 6.5 very few shooting 308 some 6 dasher The 308’s did the best on the spinner at 400 yards the 6.5 did really good at 900+ but all that aside it came down to the people who practice & practice again again.
Lots of people shooting 6.5 very few shooting 308 some 6 dasher The 308’s did the best on the spinner at 400 yards the 6.5 did really good at 900+ but all that aside it came down to the people who practice & practice again again.
It's pretty clear why 6.5 Creed is slowing down in popularity. Everyone is jumping to the 7.6 Creedmoor it's improved on the 6.5 in every way. Only a fool would stay with the 6.5 after this was released.
Had a spinner at 300 last weekend. 147's at 2700 out of my 6.5 took 3 solid hits to flip.
I watched a lot of guys not be able to spin it, but it was all timing. Pulling the trigger before you see the plate is hard, but necessary to connect at the right time.
I will say all my 3 gun practice spinning plates at 1-200 with a 223 came in handy as it takes a very good timing to spin one with a 55grn bullet.
The rise in AR popularity happened after the Clinton "assault weapon" ban sunset and people scared that Obama would reinstate it.
But as I said earlier, I think the popularity of the 6.5 Grendle got a lot of AR shooters looking at long range shooting right as 6.5 Creedmoor was gaining traction.
My first is an LR308 build that I started in 2010-11 and I was buying parts in Obama mania when a plain Jane LR308 in .308 was crazy expensive. Since the budget parts were crazy expensive, I spent a tiny bit more to go with parts from JP and Criterion to make it a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I now have a few ARs in 6.5 Creedmoor and a bolt action (custom).
Luckily I don't have to sell to move up, I just add on as money allows.
My next will probably be a 7mm flavor to try and make a legitimate mile gun that I can shoot 60-100 times in a sitting without wearing out my shoulder or requiring an obnoxious brake.
I've heard 6.5 CM fad complaints and obituaries from .308 and other caliber fans for 12 years now. Would be nice if that much effort would be invested in actual range time. Isn't it nice to have choice, at least for now? Enjoy what you shoot, get better with it, and win. What does it matter what the guy next to you shoots as long as he hits. I'm sure Goliath was convinced that the slingshot was a fad and no doubt would be short lived.
What do you have against slingshots? Don’t you know that with the advent of new higher BC projectiles and slick new manual launch systems, today’s slingshot is the equivalent of yesterday’s pocket .32?
LOL There you have it. I quote another example of previously innovative technology being successfully deployed in a shock and awe display and it gets stated that I'm against it? Be careful what you wish for someone might start a thread that those modern slingshots are just a fad and that those dogwood and rubber band slingshots were just as, or even more effective and that there are so many on the market because people are trading them either in for newer bows, or crossbows and some are going back to the dogwood because it's cheaper and brings the same results at shorter ranges. Aside from hard data all of this is preference and some prefer AIs and Barrets, others prefer Heckler and Koch. Get what you feel best with and what you get the best results with for the range you shoot, that fad talk is pointless. I enjoy my range time with what I chose, no point in drooling, or maligning.
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Describing 6.5CM as the gateway drug, is such an apt way of phrasing. But I think #1 and #2 are right on. I'm very interested to see if #3, is indeed an emerging trend.
Yep, I think such rapid over saturation of the market is a big part of what the OP is seeing. Seems like after 6.5CM started taking off, there were quite a few of 308 being up for sale. The market may also swing to the newer 6mm cartridges, so we may be seeing this again in a few years with a ton of those.
D
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Too much recoil then we talk them into a brake and then too much recoil and too loud.
I'm very skeptical of the claim that people are moving back to 308 in any significant number.
