Why So Many Young Americans Fall for Socialism.
- Thread starter PatMiles
- Start date
Not being smart enough or just an inability to meet military standards isn't and never will be grounds for a dishonorable discharge.
It would fall under a general discharge or other than honorable.
The leadership is busy enough with substandard troops. It takes a long time to get one pushed out the gate, and then you have to wait on a replacement that needs training.
This isn't burger king where you can learn your job in 3 days. There are way too many technical specialties and seriously difficult jobs to allow for mandatory service.
Upgrade training takes a lot of concerted effort on the part of the supervisors and even more on the trainee's part.
Forcing someone into service is a huge disaster, just waiting to happen.
You must have had a small shop.
But yeah, hear everything you're saying.
Jeezus. You sound like you live in a sithole, commie city on the west coast.
Shop had 48 guys, my part of the band was six of them.
After turning off my phone last night I picked up my current read, "What Do You Care What Other People Think?" by Richard P Feynman. It just so happened that on page 90 was the following paragraph:
The real question of government versus private enterprise is argued on too philosophical and abstract a basis. Theoretically, planning may be good. But nobody has ever figured out the cause of government stupidity - and until they do (and find the cure), all ideal plans will fall into quicksand.
The real question of government versus private enterprise is argued on too philosophical and abstract a basis. Theoretically, planning may be good. But nobody has ever figured out the cause of government stupidity - and until they do (and find the cure), all ideal plans will fall into quicksand.
The idea of mandatory military service isn't too great.
The idea of mandatory service of some type (military OR some updated true AmeriCorp)? A bit better. If tied into something (benefits, as an oversimplified example).
Mandatory service to vote, or for citizenship? Read some ScyFy Heinlein...
The same spoiled hippie boomers who spent the entire 60s having a temper tantrum and have lined their pockets and their retirements with everybody’s future since.
Should’ve popped a nuke over Woodstock. Would’ve solved a lot of problems.
The fix you propose is related to our education system and parenting skills.
Do you have any idea how many democrats and liberals are actually in the military?
I thought not.
Military service doesn't educate people in politics, capitalism and US history.
The purpose of our military is to project strength and if necessary wage war.
Fixing social and educational problems isn't why we have a military.
Shop had 48 guys, my part of the band was six of them.
Weapons load crew?
You're taking an over simplistic view of something you have no knowledge or experience with.
See, now you're talking.
Part of the problem is not growing up and having to work for things.
Granted, there are still plenty of youth that have responsibilities and get taught a great work ethic and how to think for themselves.
Unfortunately a greater part of youth want for nothing and do nothing to earn what they get.
This is the parental side of the problem.
If the youth isn't taught responsibility and critical thinking, you end up with a child that has been raised and indoctrinated by the fucked up educational system.
Why should the military be responsible to untrain and re-train our youth?
That's like forcing your local police department to retrain your dog who keeps shitting and pissing on the carpet.
It's not their job.
Sounds like proper parenting being foisted elsewhere all over again...
Exactly.
I think Alex needs to put his money where his mouth is, join the military and fix all of our social and educational problems using the might of Uncle Sam.
Project 100 K in the sixties was a hoot ,they were cannon fodder in Vietnam and it leaked into the eighties fortunately the east has the same issues .
1950,s boomer here red white and blue never a socialist
If you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart, but
If you're not a conservative when you grow up, then you have no brain.
-1960's
If you're not a conservative when you grow up, then you have no brain.
-1960's
Capitalism is the answer with a caveat. If someone is a moron you should be obligated to fix them. For far too long people have gotten comfortable hiding behind lawyers and law. Start correcting peoples attitudes or poor behavior (whether it is entitlement or other) and the problem starts to fix itself very quickly. Insurance company doesn't follow through with its obligations/service that you are paying for, well then.
Just a thought.
Make tar and feathering great again
Just a thought.
Make tar and feathering great again
...Capitalism works. It's when the greed sets in, that's when things go to $hit.
Mac
Mac
Same here, but from the 40's (49 anywayLOL).
That hit me the other day, I've lived in two centuries and 9 decades.
Believe it or not, Heinlein's original intention of writing "Starship Troopers" was not so that Verhoeven could nearly ruin the story years later, only to have the actors save it from being a total shit show but to show the maturation of young roustabout goofball becoming a man and a contributor of society. In the story, one can become a voting citizen by serving at least one enlistment. Or, in the case of woman so desiring, bearing and raising good children. Essentially you have a stake in what is being voted for with your money. I still kind of like the idea but so many people have a problem with standards for voting. Many is the person who would not qualify if, for example, he could not solve the quadratic equation for f(x)=4x^2+2x+2. Or, to find the first derivative of the same equation.
Some would say that is authoritarian. It is not. You just don't get to vote other people's money for yourself with contributing to the pot, as it were.
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Please stop posting about the military - you are embarrassing to those of us who did serve
Wont work, bra.Capitalism is the answer with a caveat. If someone is a moron you should be obligated to fix them. For far too long people have gotten comfortable hiding behind lawyers and law. Start correcting peoples attitudes or poor behavior (whether it is entitlement or other) and the problem starts to fix itself very quickly. Insurance company doesn't follow through with its obligations/service that you are paying for, well then.
Just a thought.
Make tar and feathering great again
It's not unlike the drug situation. People have eaten mushrooms of cowshit, eaten cactus that taste terrible, smoked various and sundry substances, and fermented or distilled others, since there have been people. Governments have been trying to stop it for quite some time, putting them in prison, even killing them, and they dont stop. It's part of a basic human nature to want to alter your consciousness one way or another. Youre not going to stop basic human nature.
As I said in another thread (or was it earlier in this one), capitalism may temporarily be better than Commieunism or Socialism, but in the end they will all fail because of human nature. There will always be that 10 or so percent who arent satisfied with just having their fair share, they want your share as well. These are the ones that go into politics, and big business, while the average Joe just wants to be left the fuck alone to enjoy his or her fair share. The 10% are shrewd and take advantage of Joe. doesnt matter if its Capi's, Socie's or Commie's in the end it works out the same. Joe gets fucked until he snaps and strikes back. Sadly, at this point theres enough technology that this snap may be the final one.
There has to be a fundamental change in human nature.
Not the way to be homey.
He can say what the fuck ever he wants and you did a good job keeping it that way.
I'll just drop this here.
fee.org
Not Yours to Give - FEE
[The following story about the famed American icon Davy Crockett was published in Harper’s Magazine in 1867, as written by James J. Bethune, a pseudonym used by Edward S. Ellis. The events that are recounted here are true, including Crockett’s opposition to the bill in question, though the...
fee.org
Make tar and feathering great again
Why? So the Leftist lunatics can then start identifying as chickens?
A lot of these points regarding child rearing is IMO very correct. But there is also the issue of being in the latter stages of an economic cycle where affordability for everyone is an issue. And it will continue to get worse. Older generations had the benefit of having time to make a nest egg if they used common sense and discipline. The younger ones dont have that and are realizing at least instinctually that they are going to have a very hard road. They are totally unprepared for this, and this is where the danger lies. They will vote for whatever they think helps ease their perceived pain. I have watched lots of videos and read books regarding the Great Depression, and what I find fascinating is that the socialism and corporatism fostered by FDR was received with great pleasure. That how we got three terms with that dude. When the chips are down people will vote for anything that helps them, its human nature.
And then some of those Depression survivors became teachers. Along came LBJ and his social welfare programs. The rest is history.
And then some of those Depression survivors became teachers. Along came LBJ and his social welfare programs. The rest is history.
Great thread! Can someone please suggest me some good books that’d help kids learn the differences between these economic systems and why capitalism is the best choice?
We got a 2.5 years old kid and my wife is going to homeschool. I teach her about God, American history (the real one - not the victimized bullshit version), the constitution and outdoor activities. She helps her grandpa with the mower and in the garden. Future conservative with the ability to think for herself in the making.
We got a 2.5 years old kid and my wife is going to homeschool. I teach her about God, American history (the real one - not the victimized bullshit version), the constitution and outdoor activities. She helps her grandpa with the mower and in the garden. Future conservative with the ability to think for herself in the making.
Remember, The Austrian painter did not seize power on a National Socialist Agenda... He was elected. First to the Reichstag. Then his party won a significant number of seats. Then he maneuvered his way to be appointed Chancellor when the Depression had everyone in Germany screaming that they wanted Bread and Jobs. Which is what he promised. Along with Villifying a certain religion (not a race) that most people associated with wealth and banking. The Germans lapped it up like free beer with a salty pretzel. Never forget what National SOCIALISM is. It's socialism.
Then... came his socialist work programs. Build the Autobahns. Build monuments. Blood and Soil. Mandatory military service to keep the jungen busy.. All clubs and organizations from the Boy Scouts on up were subsumed into the KdF (Strength through Joy). All youth were required to join the Shitler Jungen... And within 12 years, the youth of the nation were so fanatical that they were putting on disposable paper uniforms and ready to try and shoot at tanks with last-ditch Panzerfausts because their Father-God-Fuhrer had said so. And if their parents tried to intervene, the kids reported their own mothers and fathers who were strung up with piano wire, and the kid got a nice ribbon.
Be cautious about demanding government-run work programs, mandatory military service or mandatory 'anything.' Having children raised by the state means that the children are shaped by the state. Which sounds fine. Until the state is run by, say, a drooling potato with a vilinous staff or Stalin or the Austrian painter. Or a murderous bitch who kicked off her presidential aspirations with an appalling book called "It Takes a Village" which was basically about how it was the STATE that should be raising children. Because parents can't be trusted. Especially the ones who teach about freedom, the Constitution and drive fuel-burning pickup trucks and own guns. Those parents cannot be trusted to raise children.
And our founding fathers understood that stealing a man's labor through taxation or any other means, was the worst kind of theft of all. (Unfortunately, they had a limited view of humankind... so stealing a white man's labor was the worst kind of theft. As for women, blacks and the bog Irish... well screw them! But I'd like to think we've evolved.)
Anyway... putting everyone in uniform sounds great when things are being run by George Washington or Patton. But when every young person has to be put through basic training (indoctrination is what it is...) and then follow orders and a chain of command leading to, say, this guy:
Or this guy:
Well, we would be finished as a nation in a generation. Oh and all those indoctrinated people would be armed and have weapons skills. How do you think China and North Korea hold on so tight.
As I mentioned in another post, I don't think the crazy left has the numbers or the 'actual' influence that we think they do. It's a few tens of thousands in a country of 350 million. BUT they scream and shout and carry on... AND worm their ways into positions of government power (or professions like teaching, journalism or the military) where they can do a lot of damage. Don't forget that Bernie, AOC and Iliahn Omar get to appoint cadets to all the academies, too. You don't think they are appointing great American warriors, do you? No, they are appointing good little socialists from their district socialist families. To become ring knockers and gut America from the inside... with their fancy West Point and Anapolis degrees.
Despite this, I still see a lot of good kids who give me hope. If we can stomp out the leftist freaks (legally), they won't be a noisy bunch of screaming retards.
How to do that? RIght now, ANTIFA seems to be crossing the line by attacking federal officers and their families. Declare them domestic terrorists who are committing kinetic acts against American people and infrastructure. That's jail time. We have a fantastic resources to address terrorism. Use it. Then find out where the funding is coming from. That can be prosecuted under RICO. Strip funding and send the funders to jail. All legally. No door kicking, etc. Precedent was even set by the drooling potato. You know, that whole 'violent revolution' thing one January.
Just remember, that the same thing can be used by anyone. And has been. Though last I checked, not a single act of violence over the last 16 years was carried out by patriots... Just by guys pretending to be them. Guys who have wormed their way into the top echelons of federal and state organizations and who are quite happy to kick in doors and jail their political enemies because, well, making omlettes and clearing speed bumps off the Shining Path.
Sirhr
Capitalism provides the opportunity to be successful, it's not about fair share. After all, what is "fair"?? My interpretation of "fair" is what I have contractually agreed to, violate that contract and we will have a problem. If you make an agreement, honor it!
Is it human nature to be shitheads? I don't think so, most people want to be the hero, the good guy. It is the fringe weirdos that are the proverbial shitheads.
Honor your promises, easy task. Congress failed and some old school guys stood up to them. https://www.nps.gov/articles/the-1932-bonus-army.htm
Great articleI'll just drop this here.
Not Yours to Give - FEE
[The following story about the famed American icon Davy Crockett was published in Harper’s Magazine in 1867, as written by James J. Bethune, a pseudonym used by Edward S. Ellis. The events that are recounted here are true, including Crockett’s opposition to the bill in question, though the...
Not really. They are often weak soft humans that lash out violently whenever they are challenged. Unless they are going directly to the meat grinder like Ukraine, it’s garbage in, garbage out.
The military was always meant to be "a-political"! But those guys
I think that if you talked to some of the young Soldiers today that I encounter regularly you would feel better. There are douchebags but for the most part you have a lot of young kids that are trying to do the right thing for the right reasons.
Indoctrination, the Army has their Army values (Loyalty · Duty · Respect · Selfless Service · Honor · Integrity · Personal Courage. Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral).) and teaches laws and land conflict. In that case I would say yes to indoctrination claim but outsid of that it is more compliance to directives and orders, "somewhat".
While I don't care for Milley he did say some stuff that was interesting in regards to "disciplined disobedience". I think that resonated with me because of something I did in early Iraq. Anyways, an interesting read, https://www.army.mil/article/187293/future_warfare_requires_disciplined_disobedience_army_chief_says
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I'm good with all that, but its not exactly my point.
"Is it human nature to be shitheads?"...No of course not, thats why I mentione the small % that take advantage of others...through hook or crook.
"If you make an agreement, honor it." 100% Your word represents YOU, and if your word in no good.....
On the other hand, " Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton
Look at our world. 90% of us mostly just want to do do our work, enjoy our lives, and be left alone. Its a small percentage that fuck it up for everybody. Capitalism is just one system, its whats inside men that wreck it. Yes, capitalism give an individual the opportunity to success, where we fail is in forgoing 'eternal vigilance' to see that others arent taking advantage of everyone. Then there's the .0001% who control the 10%.
Kind of like a gun. Doesnt matter which type of gun you've got, there are really only two options. Use it with wisdom to provide food and or entertainment, or use it to harm others for personal gain or satisfaction. Its not the gun, nor type of gun, its all on the indivdual controling it.
The military was always meant to be "a-political"! But those guys
I think that if you talked to some of the young Soldiers today that I encounter regularly you would feel better. There are a lot of douchebags but for the most part you have a lot of young kids that are trying to do the right thing for the right reasons.
Indoctrination, the Army has their Army values (Loyalty · Duty · Respect · Selfless Service · Honor · Integrity · Personal Courage. Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral).) and teaches laws and land conflict. In that case I would say yes to indoctrination claim but outsid of that it is more compliance to directives and orders, "somewhat".
While I don't care for Milley he did say some stuff that was interesting in regards to "disciplined disobedience". I think that resonated with me because of something I did in early Iraq. Anyways, an interesting read, https://www.army.mil/article/187293/future_warfare_requires_disciplined_disobedience_army_chief_says
Agree. And it’s still a place where most go to serve and do great things.
But the big “what if” is always there.
Remember that the german army was traditionally the most professional and disciplined army in the west. Officers were educated classically, erudite, upper class.
Then they had to take an oath to a madman. And went totally off the rails.
Top down and civilian leadership can, in just a few years, destroy a lot of traditions and professionalism.
Sirhr
Ps. The reason that America didn’t have a significant standing army, heading into World War II was a tradition all the way back to the revolution that a standing army is a threat to a republic. And never forget that MacArthur and Patton fired on veterans making up the bonus March army. They were ordered too.
I find it odd that people think the cure for socialism is mandatory military conscription. Which is literally going and working for the government, letting the government control every aspect of your life.
The cure for socialism is shrinking the already too bloated government. How to get there, thats a complicated task. But forcing every one to be conscripted is going to cost how much, requiring how much more taxation?
It in action is literally the exact opposite of shrinking socializm, its growing it.
The cure for socialism is shrinking the already too bloated government. How to get there, thats a complicated task. But forcing every one to be conscripted is going to cost how much, requiring how much more taxation?
It in action is literally the exact opposite of shrinking socializm, its growing it.
To a point I can see this as a good idea. We dont need to have troops stationed all over the world. That shit is expensive, and doesnt work.
At 18, or upon the completion of school, EVERYBODY (including the polititians and their families) serves a year, learns to use all weapons, and learns a (I think y'all call it an MOS?) Then goes home and back to work. If you can legitimately claim conscientious objector, you get a non combat MOS but you serve.
Keep a small, tight, skeleton crew and a plan to call up everyone on a moments notice.
Wont happen but we can dream.
I remember, I posted a link earlier about the bonus army above.
Yes, for those weak of mind and heart they can be corrupted and follow the herd. For the others? Depends on their motivations, what would you sacrifice for your family? I saw what happens when a family is kidnapped and threatened with death and the family member is told to make the sacrifice aka suicide bombing on a specific target or his family will be tortured and murdered. That Iraqi Police Major strapped the suicide vest on, went into the compound and into an uninhabited section of the compound and blew himself up hoping that his family would survive and nobody else but him would die. I always said we see the best and worst in conflict and that day we saw the tragic best as a man sacrificed himself to try and save his family.
It's a crazy world! One day someone can make sense of it.
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Agreed
So, because a couple of morons take advantage of a system it is a "bad" system? Because a couple of morons misuse firearms for a bad purpose are all firearms now "bad"?
Where do we draw the line? Anything can be abused and taken advantage of, nothing is perfect and never will be! What is "good enough"?
I think these are some of the questions our society needs to figure out.
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Try telling that to a certain segment of the Hide population.
They have the answer, and anyone with actual experience is a fool for thinking it's not a good way to change.
I posted this yesterday but it bears repeating.
Some people.
Howard, a I tried to explain to Alex yesterday, it's way, way more complicated than that.
Some technical schools are over 1 year long.
My stepson is an ARMY Combat Engineer.
4-1/2 months of his first year was basic and AIT.
That would leave 7-1/2 months of that year for what you propose.
That 4.5 months was just for his initial qualification to trainee status.
Where does the Army get use from the Soldier?
In the Air Force, upgrade training takes much more than a year.
Some airframes are extremely complicated. It takes years, to almost a decade to become a SME on just one airframe. Guess what. You don't get to stay with it. Uncle Sam moves you to a different base with different aircraft and you start all over again.
It just isn't a simple as brick laying
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FAir enough, I saw your other post. I was never in the military (except for two years of a miserable boarding school) so I dont have your experience.
That in consideration, there should be ways to improve, there are always ways to improve.I'd guess the guys int the jobs you speak of are interested in staying for the career. No doubt what youre saying is true about more technically specialized slots but the average grunt is a different situation. Cooks, most truck drivers, that sort of job are not really skills that are going to expire, or not be brought up to snuff pretty quickly. Just keep enough of those to keep the rest running.
Just my $00.015 cents
Actually, we had plenty of people that would only do 4-6 years and that was it.
Some left after 4yrs not really knowing much.
Some left as excellent troops that you wanted to keep, but they had bigger plans.
Some stayed.
From the outside it seems simple. It just isn't.
I recall you being a stone mason.
Most of what you know wasn't learned in 6-8 months. Instead, it was years to decades later.
If you had a 50+% turnover rate and had to personally train each person, how much work could you actually get done in the allotted year, minus basic training and then technical school?
Hint, I had a somewhat short tech school. After basic training, tech school and a familiarization course, I got to my first assignment at the 6 month mark. You don't hit the ground running form there. You end up in all kinds of other courses and about two months later, you finally start learning your job.
On top of that, many careers aren't a steady stream of repeated tasks. In aircraft maintenance, you work on what breaks. It's different all the time.
My stepson learns some new technique every time they go into the field. That won't happen in a year.
As far as cooks, truck drivers, H20 specialists and the like, they have to do more than just drive trucks and flip burgers.
Do you want your drinking water to come from some liberal shithead with a vengeance streak because he's been forced to join the Army? I would hope not.
A buddy of mine is a retired Maj General.
We laugh about all of the bullshit that went on during our careers. You have to have a sense of humor or you'll go nuts.
He likes it when he proposes an idea and I say: I see your point, but it just won't work...
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To paraphrase a saying
Only fools and idealists not under the iron fist of universal compulsory conscription beg and champion for such a monstrous thing.
Only fools and idealists not under the iron fist of universal compulsory conscription beg and champion for such a monstrous thing.
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