With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

N

Notso

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Minuteman
Nov 28, 2010
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#1
This is not just a hypothetical question. I'm getting ready to leave the country for an overseas contracting job for a couple years and I'm trying to lead turn my next rifle decision.

I currently own and load for a .308 SPS-T that been upgraded extensively and is a hammer. I probably have 3500 rounds down the tube so far. Primary use for the new gun will be LR steel (1000+) and TAC matches/steel safaris. Will definitely threaded for a brake and can.

So since I can order the gun well before I get home - time is not an issue for a custom build. Also, to a degree budget is fairly unlimited (within reason). So I'm thinking I have three options:

1. Get the 700 action rebarreled with a custom tube and worked by someone like GAP, APA, etc
2. Have a custom rifle built from the ground up using whatever action is best (surgeon, badger, GAP, etc)
3. Buy a complete rifle off the shelf like an AW, etc.

I'm initially leaning towards option #2 in .260 and keeping my current .308 intact for a "beat around" gun. I'm not particularly partial to the AICS style rifles, but I'm open to trying them again.

So help me spec a rifle with the above mission tasks in mind. Pick the custom shop, components (action, barrel, etc), and caliber. If you don't mind, try to justify why you chose your route.

Thanks for your help.
 
#2
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I would buy a Desert Tactical Arms SRS. They now offer a .260 conversion. If you want to shoot .308 out of the SRS and already have the .260 conversion, all you need to purchase is the .308 barrel as the bolt and magazine transfer over. If you really want to get out past 1,000 yards you could pick up a 7 WSM, .300 WM, or .338 Lapua conversion kit.

The rifles shoot amazing and the ability to change out the caliber is awesome. I have one on order and cannot wait to receive it.
 
#4
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

Go all the way custom. Get a stock that REALLY fits you, not just an A5. Try everything and get it adjustable in every which way. 260 means shortish barrel. DBM of your choice. I recommend the R&D brake. Contact Defiance machine and talk to them about getting a custom action straight from them. get some trigger that breaks at 1.98lbs and then start worrying about reloading...

Same for scope, USO: go nuts.

Those are broad strokes but you plug in what details are missing from your own knowledge and you will have a keeper.
 
#5
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would buy a Desert Tactical Arms SRS. They now offer a .260 conversion. If you want to shoot .308 out of the SRS and already have the .260 conversion, all you need to purchase is the .308 barrel as the bolt and magazine transfer over. If you really want to get out past 1,000 yards you could pick up a 7 WSM, .300 WM, or .338 Lapua conversion kit.

The rifles shoot amazing and the ability to change out the caliber is awesome. I have one on order and cannot wait to receive it. </div></div>

My option is this.
 
#11
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

IMHO, contact Robert @ Gradous rifles. Tell him exactly what kind of accuracy you expect & in what calibers. Have him do a switch barrel with several calibers for you. He has a very well equipped reloading/shooting room about 5 yards from the shop so your dream setup would be waiting all dialed in with loads already developed. Plug & play just waiting on your return.
Semper Fi
 
#12
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 95LTZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO, contact Robert @ Gradous rifles. Tell him exactly what kind of accuracy you expect & in what calibers. Have him do a switch barrel with several calibers for you. He has a very well equipped reloading/shooting room about 5 yards from the shop so your dream setup would be waiting all dialed in with loads already developed. Plug & play just waiting on your return.
Semper Fi </div></div>

take it up a step and take a class from him and build said rifle with your own hands.....
 
#14
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

It sounds like you are "not particularly partial to the AICS style rifles" and are interested in a 260. You also already have a Rem 700. Have you thought about a TRG in 260? You could have it by the end of the week! I find the stock very comfortable, it is very robust, the trigger kills my Jewel, and the bolt runs so much smoother than my Rem 700. It also is very forgiving and ridiculously easy to shoot well. I believe it is a good value when compared to similar platforms (AIAW/AIAX). The TRG 22 also weighs considerably less than an AIAW.

If you can't tell already, I like mine quite a bit. Check out the video below.

http://vimeo.com/24227428
 
#15
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I'd Have to say if it were me, I'd Do with something ground up from GAP... I see a lot of guys love the 260 round. I have never been a fan of it. Maybe I should re-read its ballistics and see what the hype is...

If I were to have the gun built, I would go 6.5x47 Lapua... Just my opinion... I'm thinking I am going to have GAP build me something in that cal. over the winter... Maybe it will be my xmas present to myself...

I wish you luck overseas and wish you luck in your decision...
 
#16
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 95LTZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO, contact Robert @ Gradous rifles. Tell him exactly what kind of accuracy you expect & in what calibers. Have him do a switch barrel with several calibers for you. He has a very well equipped reloading/shooting room about 5 yards from the shop so your dream setup would be waiting all dialed in with loads already developed. Plug & play just waiting on your return.
Semper Fi </div></div>

This would be a close second option.
 
#18
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

aiawsm and have a 7 rem mag barrel made for it. great rifle with a caliber that ballistically gives up nothing to virtually any caliber in terms of shooting paper and steel.
 
#19
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I would go with either a 408CT or 50BMG (biased). Sure the other calibers might get you to 1000yds, are lighter, cheaper to build, and cheaper to shoot, but you gotta consider the SHTF, DM, and HAS scenarios.

What happens if it all goes south (shit hits the fan) and there are roving gangs of marauders/mercenaries/etc.? Sure you can pop em off one at a time at 1k yds but what if they're driving a truck? .260 and .338 might do some damage to a vehicle, but a 50BMG API or a 408CT is like shooting a stop sign. THEN you can take out your 260 and start plinking.

Also, the DM (dick measuring) quotient of a 408CT or 50BMG is much greater than a 338LM or comparable cartridge. When I walk up to the range and get out my 50 I KNOW I have a bigger dick than anyone else there. Including Mr. Anzio 20mm (Sure it might be bigger than the 50, but that guy's compensating for something...)

And finally the HAS (hot as shit) scenario. As you're in Vegas you know there are times your shooting and its just ridiculously hot. You're lying down prone and you can feel your skin baking like its in a big ole pressure cooker. Every now and again you get a whiff of a breeze from the next guy's muzzle break and its the only semblance of relief except its so small you don't get to enjoy it. Thats where the 50 comes in. Every shot is like a nice breeze for everyone around you. People will line up to shoot next to you because its so cool (figuratively AND literally).

In all seriousness though, the 408CT is the best ULR cartridge in my opinion, but I loooooooove my 50.

 
#20
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I just don't think there is any argument against the "SHTF" logic. The "DM" doesn't measure up though and the "HAS" isn't as cool as he makes it sound (puns intended). Seriously though, there may come a time when you need to stop the truck or blow a hole through the wall. In those situations, a smaller, lighter gun just isn't going to do the job.
crazy.gif
 
#21
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 95LTZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO, contact Robert @ Gradous rifles. Tell him exactly what kind of accuracy you expect & in what calibers. Have him do a switch barrel with several calibers for you. He has a very well equipped reloading/shooting room about 5 yards from the shop so your dream setup would be waiting all dialed in with loads already developed. Plug & play just waiting on your return.
Semper Fi </div></div>

take it up a step and take a class from him and build said rifle with your own hands..... </div></div>

Robert is an awesome guy and an awesome smith. Check my signature line.
 
#22
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

At those ranges, 1000 yds+, I would pass on the 260 rem and 308win. I would pick either a 338 lapau/norma/etc vs. 7mm WSM/SAUM depending on your budget and what you are shooting.
 
#24
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

Too many great shops to pick just one. If you wanted to just buy a rifle I would go AIAW chambered in 6.5x47mm and stick your S&B on it and be done with it.

For a build, I think a Badger Gen II M2008 would be sweet, Badger bottom metal, Badger rings, Manners stock in 6.5x47mm/6.5 Creedmoor/.260 Rem.

+1 for whoever said 7WSM!
 
#25
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AIAW gets my vote. </div></div>

as opposed to the AIAX? </div></div>

It's kinda like choosing between Salma Hayek and Penelope Cruz... Can you really go wrong?
 
#27
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

.

If you like Rem action style plataform, I would have a GAP custom build with SURGEON or DEFIANCE action and a couple of barrels on .308 and .260rem.
 
#28
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

You know my love of AI rifles but I'd say if you are comfortable with the manners then stick with that stock for the next rifle as well. Fuck having o retrain on a new platform while keeping yourself confident on the SPS. I've dropped my m2008 build ideas I was having lately for that reason. I'd be giving mr Cain a call as well-- Joey and Tims rifles he built are excellent and for a reasonable price too. Any of the 6.5s will work great for what you want. I couldn't discount creedmore and espicially not the lapua.
 
#29
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go with either a 408CT or 50BMG (biased). Sure the other calibers might get you to 1000yds, are lighter, cheaper to build, and cheaper to shoot, but you gotta consider the SHTF, DM, and HAS scenarios.

What happens if it all goes south (shit hits the fan) and there are roving gangs of marauders/mercenaries/etc.? Sure you can pop em off one at a time at 1k yds but what if they're driving a truck? .260 and .338 might do some damage to a vehicle, but a 50BMG API or a 408CT is like shooting a stop sign. THEN you can take out your 260 and start plinking.

Also, the DM (dick measuring) quotient of a 408CT or 50BMG is much greater than a 338LM or comparable cartridge. When I walk up to the range and get out my 50 I KNOW I have a bigger dick than anyone else there. Including Mr. Anzio 20mm (Sure it might be bigger than the 50, but that guy's compensating for something...)

And finally the HAS (hot as shit) scenario. As you're in Vegas you know there are times your shooting and its just ridiculously hot. You're lying down prone and you can feel your skin baking like its in a big ole pressure cooker. Every now and again you get a whiff of a breeze from the next guy's muzzle break and its the only semblance of relief except its so small you don't get to enjoy it. Thats where the 50 comes in. Every shot is like a nice breeze for everyone around you. People will line up to shoot next to you because its so cool (figuratively AND literally).

In all seriousness though, the 408CT is the best ULR cartridge in my opinion, but I loooooooove my 50.

</div></div>
Took the words right outa my mouth. Go 50 and I'm talking full custom balls out 50 or go home. Size matters.
 
#32
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AIAW gets my vote. </div></div>

as opposed to the AIAX? </div></div>

It's kinda like choosing between Salma Hayek and Penelope Cruz... Can you really go wrong? </div></div>

Salma Hayek for sure no comparison.
 
#33
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triggerhappy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AIAW gets my vote. </div></div>

as opposed to the AIAX? </div></div>

It's kinda like choosing between Salma Hayek and Penelope Cruz... Can you really go wrong? </div></div>

Salma Hayek for sure no comparison. </div></div>

WRONG!!!! I'd step on Salma's face to get a closer look at Penelope
grin.gif
 
#34
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

Thanks for all the great replies. I will research DTA and TAC Ops some more. The DTA sounds interesting for the ability to switch calibers easily. That could be very handy. Although I'm NOT a fan of tube or chassis systems. How does the bull pup design lend itself to rapid fire when the bolt is behind the trigger hand?

As I said - my primary use will be TAC Matches. So a 50BMG, 338LM and the other DM rifles are not really an option. Besides, I have women telling me it's too big already.
grin.gif


As LVMIKE said - I'm shooting a Rem 700 with a Manners T4A w/ the mini-chassis setup and I really am comfortable with that style of stock. I like the AI action w/ the short throw bolt, but I've just never been comfortable behind the stock.

As for why I'm leaning towards .260 for a match gun.... I'm looking for something with good ballistics but reasonable barrel life. By the time I'm done with load development - a good chunk of the barrel life is gone with some of the really hot calibers. but I'm not set on .260 if something better is out there.

Keep the suggestions coming!
 
#35
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for why I'm leaning towards .260 for a match gun.... I'm looking for something with good ballistics but reasonable barrel life. By the time I'm done with load development - a good chunk of the barrel life is gone with some of the really hot calibers. but I'm not set on .260 if something better is out there.

Keep the suggestions coming! </div></div>
Maybe the 6.5 Creedmore is just right for you.
 
#36
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

#2 with a 260 (tac match reamer from PTG - .098fb), Surgeon 591 action (Ion bonded), Bartlein 8.5 twist 5R. Go with Spartan Rifles, GAP or Score HI Gunsmithing. They're building top rigs that are winning competitions. I won the 2010 Snipers Hide Bash & 2011 Nor Cal Tactical Bolt Rifle Challenge with this setup.
 
#38
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I'd purchase something based off a Surgeon 591 and DBM along with a Kreiger barrel and Manners stock and then pick one of the top smiths to do the finish work.
 
#40
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

Thanks again for the good suggestions. It'll give me something to research while I'm gone and dreaming of when I can shoot again. I'm hoping to at least make friends with some of the ex-SOF contractors over there and maybe get some range time in for when I'm jonesing for some trigger time. But I digress.

Anyway, I'm specifically interested in something in the 20-22" barrel length range. Are any of the 6-6.5mm calibers (.243, .260, 6.5 Creed, 6x47, etc) going to be significantly handicapped going short?
 
#42
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, I'm specifically interested in something in the 20-22" barrel length range. Are any of the 6-6.5mm calibers (.243, .260, 6.5 Creed, 6x47, etc) going to be significantly handicapped going short? </div></div>

You should probably be looking at 24" minimum to take full advantage of velocity coupled with the BC. I believe Rob01 recommends 26" for the 6.5 creed.

Josh
 
#43
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I've got a 20" barrel on a 6mm Remington (Remington model 700 BDL) and it shoots better than I can hold. It doesn't seem to matter who shoots it, they always get their deer (mule deer) with one shot. It seems to work fine anywhere from 40 yards to 440 yards. However, I don't think I'd shoot at deer sized animals at ranges exceeding 1/4 mile with the 6mm. Knocked him right down at that range though. There shouldn't be any problem shooting paper or steel (or small critters) at 600 yards and maybe even out to 1,000 yards.
 
#44
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would buy a Desert Tactical Arms SRS. They now offer a .260 conversion. If you want to shoot .308 out of the SRS and already have the .260 conversion, all you need to purchase is the .308 barrel as the bolt and magazine transfer over. If you really want to get out past 1,000 yards you could pick up a 7 WSM, .300 WM, or .338 Lapua conversion kit.

The rifles shoot amazing and the ability to change out the caliber is awesome. I have one on order and cannot wait to receive it.</div></div>

The SRS is a very unique set up and around 12" shorter than a standard bolt gun, with it's bullpup design. So you can throw a 28-30" barrel + a suppressor on it and still have around the same OAL as a 20" standard rifle build.

Goat
 
#45
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I would go right to the Nemesis Arms Vanquish

http://www.nemesisarms.com/

and put a Hensoldt on top of it.

The rifle is amazingly accurate and is more like a piece of art than a gun. the trigger is crisp beyond anything else I have ever felt. And since you can change calibers just by swapping barrels, it's more versatile than pretty much everything else out there.
 
#46
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

I would recomend the AIAX, and get a few barrels in different caliber for it so you never get board with it. It will honestly serve you better than any custom. This is truely a "last rifle ever" purchase.

All that being said, I do also love a custom built rifle. I would recomend any of the big name builders, my personal choice is APA but they all are talented. Now if you decide to go the custom route there is a question you need to answer first. Where and how will you be shooting this rifle and taylor that into the build. Like if you expect to shoot 1200 yds or more a 18" .308 although capable in the right hands probably isnt the best choice. You get the idea.

Most important get what YOU like not what is the most popular, and enjoy it.
 
#47
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

That is exactly it. It comes down to what you feel most comfortable with for a platform. There has been lots of great information given to you and advice by people much more knowledgeable and experienced than myself. That being said as far as my own recommendation it would personally be against a 260 or 6.5. They are fantastic cartridges are do not get me wrong. I just believe that those rounds are going to do what your 308 already does only better. It sounds like you want to have a nice long range rig for 1000 and beyond. I would recommend something along the lines of a 338 Lapua. It will get you out to 1800 yards no problem. Something you can grow into and really enjoy. It is an expensive round if you do not reload but you do. As far as barrel life you will get plenty of it. Someone on here asked Accuracy International what the barrel life for a 338 Lapua was and got this response:

"Expected would be 7.5k honestly and can be less or more depending on the way she is run and ammo numbers of course."

I think you would really enjoy the Lapua in a custom built rifle tailored exactly the way you want it and to what fits you best and most comfortably. Surgeon or Stiller action on a Krieger barrel but there are lots of other great barrel and action makers. This is where I would personally start. Hope this helps or gives you another view as to what direction you want to go. Best of luck my friend!
 
#48
Re: With Unlimited time and unlimited budget....

If your are going to be gone for two years I would just rat hole the money and wait a while. Things can change a lot in that amount of time. Something new could come along.

Personally I would go with the AW or the AX if you don't care for the "traditional" AI chassis and they are readily available.

If you want to go a custom rout research it for a while, talk to builders and when you have 12-14 months left place your order.

I had GAP build me a 6.5x47 and could not be happier with it. If you just want to punch paper or ding steel and not hunt long range its accurate to 1200 + yards. It shoots flatter than a .300 WM and used less than half the powder.

Oh and I would trade my rifle to be the orphan kid in Africa that Salma Hayek was nursing.
 
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