Would Like Input with Wilson Super Sniper Build

[jeffwhip]

I haven’t posted much on this forum. I already have two bolt action sniper rifles (7MM Allen Magnum and 338 Edge). I‘d like to get an AR chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor that I can use for hunting out to 600 - 700 yards.

With that in mind, I am considering the Wilson Super Sniper 6.5 Creedmoor, 20” barrel, suppressed with their Whisper Suppressor, topped with a Nightforce NX8 2.5X20 50mm F1. I’m thinking about reloading using Lapua brass, 140 grain Berger Elite Hunter bullets, and H4350 powder.

1. Since I’d like to hunt with this gun suppressed, with a 20” barrel will this be too heavy? If I went to a lighter Wilson AR I could save 1.5 pounds.
2. If I reload with the bullet slightly off the lands, will this fit into the magazine and feed properly or will it be too long?
3. Is there another optic I should consider?

Thanks in advance for all your replies!

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

What animal are you planning to hunt with this setup?
I run a LMT MWS for hogs with either a 13" LW or 16" medium 7.62 barrel both suppressed. I shoot from a tripod because it's a heavy rig. I don't know the weight on the Wilson, but a 20" gun with a can is not something you're going to be shooting unsupported. Have you shot any AR10/SR25 rifles before, particularly suppressed?

 

[Eli17L]

I am glad to lean its not my age as my AR10 has become a safe queen and my back still hurts from the last hunt.
I am along to learn how one does this.

 

[Odysseus1911]

First, what are you hunting? You're going to have lower velocity from a 20" barrel than the standard 24", and a little less still from an AR platform. Even from a 24" bolt action, you may be dropping below 1000 lb./ft. energy at 600-700 yds, so you'll likely be lower than that. That's not a problem for thin-skinned game like whitetails, but if you're hunting something else, it might not be an ethical choice for that distance.

2nd, While Wilson Combat makes fine handguns and rifles, their rifle barrels are mid-tier button-rifled tubes. Not that anything's wrong with them, but since the barrel is by far the most important part of the gun, personally, I'd spend a couple hundred more and get a reputable cut-rifled barrel (Bartlein, Kreiger, Proof, etc.). If weight is a concern, get a Proof carbon fiber barrel to shed a couple pounds right off the bat.

3rd, Wilson's marketing makes their suppressors look attractive, but they just don't hold a candle to any of the other major suppressor brands in sound reduction or durability. I'd be looking at TBAC, Dead Air, Rex Silentium, KGM, and CGS first.

4th, your choice of optic is fine, but lots of people find them a little disappointing due to a number of minor considerations. On the other hand, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a better [reasonably priced] FFP optic that's well-suited to hunting than the Leupold mark 5HD 3.6-18x44. It's lightweight, short, and has great IQ for the price point. Everyone loves it.

 

[Ravenworks]

With the stated ranges why not be more traditional and stay with the 308/7.62?
It's just going to be cheaper all the way around with a metric ton of selections on bullets.

 

[jeffwhip]

Thank you all for your replies. I’d like to be able to hunt deer, elk, and antelope. I plan on hunting with my son and one of us will carry my 338 Edge which is good for 1000+. Hence, I’d like to have an AR10 that will cover out to 700 or so.

1. I have only shot a 223 suppressed.
2. I’d like a gun I can shoot off hand should I need to, however almost all of the shots I’ve taken have all been supported.
3. Odysseus1911, Is there another AR10 out there that uses a higher end barrel? My 338 Edge and 7MM AM both have Krieger barrels? I’m open to another manufacturer.
4. Because I get a LE discount, the Nightforce is actually cheaper than the Leupold. However, I will consider them when it’s time to pull the trigger.
5. Which manufacturers use Proof carbon barrels?
6. Are there any AR10’s who use a larger magazine opening such that I can seat a barrel close to the lands and not have chambering issues?

 

[cloverleaf22]

I'm not sure if 6.5cm is any different, but every 223/308 AR barrel I have won't let me seat mag length bullets to the lands. For 308, my criterion lets me get .060-.080 with HPBT's and the lothar walther won't let me get any closer than .100. If that is a requirement you might want to get a custom cut chamber.

 

[Evintos]

How heavy is too heavy is dependent on your physical fitness levels and tolerance. Consider 6.5 grendel if weight is significant factor. Scratched that, missed the elk hunting part.

It depends on the magazine and how the throat chamber is cut. Metal DPMS/SR25 pattern mags allow for a longer COAL than Magpul Polymer mags. The 2nd factor on whether or not a cartridge loaded long would work is the feed ramp cut on both the upper as well as the barrel extension.

The Nightforce will be fine.

The Wilson Combat Whisper is freakin heavy (titanium at 17.8oz). Lots of companies that make Ti suppressors that weigh 33% less than the Whisper.

 

[Constructor]

2nd, While Wilson Combat makes fine handguns and rifles, their rifle barrels are mid-tier button-rifled tubes. Not that anything's wrong with them, but since the barrel is by far the most important part of the gun, personally, I'd spend a couple hundred more and get a reputable cut-rifled barrel (Bartlein, Kreiger, Proof, etc.). If weight is a concern, get a Proof carbon fiber barrel to shed a couple pounds right off the bat.

Bill Wilson told us ER Shaw made his barrels.

 

[Odysseus1911]

Bill Wilson told us ER Shaw made his barrels.

Really? Didn't know that. Weren't they making their own for a while?

 

[Odysseus1911]

Thank you all for your replies. I’d like to be able to hunt deer, elk, and antelope. I plan on hunting with my son and one of us will carry my 338 Edge which is good for 1000+. Hence, I’d like to have an AR10 that will cover out to 700 or so.

1. I have only shot a 223 suppressed.
2. I’d like a gun I can shoot off hand should I need to, however almost all of the shots I’ve taken have all been supported.
3. Odysseus1911, Is there another AR10 out there that uses a higher end barrel? My 338 Edge and 7MM AM both have Krieger barrels? I’m open to another manufacturer.
4. Because I get a LE discount, the Nightforce is actually cheaper than the Leupold. However, I will consider them when it’s time to pull the trigger.
5. Which manufacturers use Proof carbon barrels?
6. Are there any AR10’s who use a larger magazine opening such that I can seat a barrel close to the lands and not have chambering issues?

Deer and antelope, fine. I think a 6.5 Creedmoor is pretty underpowered for 600-700 yard shots on elk -especially out of a 20" AR. You've got a tiny bullet and you just don't have enough energy on target at that distance for anything but a perfect shot on game that big.

As far as higher end barrel, what's your price range? You could buy a Seekins or a JP Enterprises. Several others, too. Personally, I'd just buy the Wilson AR, sell the new barrel that came on it and replace it with a Proof carbon fiber.

 

[padom]

I haven’t posted much on this forum. I already have two bolt action sniper rifles (7MM Allen Magnum and 338 Edge). I‘d like to get an AR chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor that I can use for hunting out to 600 - 700 yards.

With that in mind, I am considering the Wilson Super Sniper 6.5 Creedmoor, 20” barrel, suppressed with their Whisper Suppressor, topped with a Nightforce NX8 2.5X20 50mm F1. I’m thinking about reloading using Lapua brass, 140 grain Berger Elite Hunter bullets, and H4350 powder.

1. Since I’d like to hunt with this gun suppressed, with a 20” barrel will this be too heavy? If I went to a lighter Wilson AR I could save 1.5 pounds.
2. If I reload with the bullet slightly off the lands, will this fit into the magazine and feed properly or will it be too long?
3. Is there another optic I should consider?

Thanks in advance for all your replies!

140 Bergers can have problems feeding in a large frame 6.5cm gasser.. they are long and pointy. Another member was having issues with 140 hybrids stabbing the back of the extension..

The Berger 130 AR Hybrid was designed for an AR. I'd stick with them. 6.5cm AR really shines with 120-130gr bullets. 140 ELD do run fine though...

Make sure you run KAC or ASC SS mags that offer the longer coal

 

[BCP]

I think a 308 16" or a 6.5 creedmoor 20" would be fine. The challenge is building one that is lightweight, accurate and not horrible to shoot.

Wilson Combats are supposed to shoot very well but they are pigs. The super sniper one I looked at was like my DPMS SASS, heavy as fuck.

 

[jeffwhip]

Deer and antelope, fine. I think a 6.5 Creedmoor is pretty underpowered for 600-700 yard shots on elk -especially out of a 20" AR. You've got a tiny bullet and you just don't have enough energy on target at that distance for anything but a perfect shot on game that big.

As far as higher end barrel, what's your price range? You could buy a Seekins or a JP Enterprises. Several others, too. Personally, I'd just buy the Wilson AR, sell the new barrel that came on it and replace it with a Proof carbon fiber.

If I were to look at the JP Enterprises AR or other brand, how light can I go without giving up accuracy? Can you give me a recommended build to look at? Is it possible to have a custom made AR10 in 6.5 made that will take 140 G Bergers?

 

[Tbraginton]

I’ll stick to my lane and leave the ballistics side of the discussion to dudes with more time on 6.5.

As for the optic, OP I would reach out to the LE sales rep at nightforce and ask him for photos of the FFP vs SFP on the NX8. (Or PM me and I’ll email you the ones I’ve got) Depending on what reticle you choose you might find yourself a little underwhelmed with usability at low magnification levels. I’ve got a Mil-XT F1 and at 2.5 the reticle essentially disappears. You can count on running illumination (which is pretty bright) if your shooting at low magnification.

 

[Zback]

I have the Wilson Whisper, it does not really suppress well compared to TBAC and other brands listed and is heavy.

 

[db2000]

Why on earth do want to hunt at 700 yards with a gasser? Seems odd but whatever.

 

[padom]

I cant say it enough...140 Bergers are going to be a problem. I've built 25-30 6.5cm gasser to date...I'm telling you, they are too long and point for reliable feeding... stick with what works...140 ELD...123/130GR..

 

[Coffee_and_Pipes]

I haven’t tried their Super Sniper, but I have a Tactical Hunter in .308 from Wilson that I really like.

I got it last year, and it’s only been to the range a couple times, but it’s been enjoyable to shoot. It feels really light compared to my Seekins SP10 in 6.5 CM.

Initially, it had some issues cycling 175 gr FGMM (I shoot unsuppressed), so I sent it back to Wilson, and they said they replaced the extractor. It’s worked well for the small amount of shooting that I’ve done since then.

 

[jeffwhip]

Thank you for all of your recommendations. I’ll do some more research.

 

[Brym427]

Buy a kac and be done

 

[ryodlsl]

Agree with db2000. If you really want a 6.5 for hunting, a PRC, SAUM or SS/SST would be better. 20 or 22 inch CF barrel, lightweight action and run the 140’s or even better, 156 Bergers

 

[wade2big]

140 Bergers can have problems feeding in a large frame 6.5cm gasser.. they are long and pointy. Another member was having issues with 140 hybrids stabbing the back of the extension..

The Berger 130 AR Hybrid was designed for an AR. I'd stick with them. 6.5cm AR really shines with 120-130gr bullets. 140 ELD do run fine though...

Make sure you run KAC or ASC SS mags that offer the longer coal

Are these the magazines?

SR-25 AR10 .308 | 20 Rd SS - Blem

Our 20rd .308 magazines meet the highest standards. These stainless steel magazines are built to withstand punishment from the range and out in the field.

www.ammosc.com

What is the coal that can be run in these so I can compare to the steel magazines I already have? Do these run well in most of your rifles? What is the Internal dimension of the magazine itself?

 

[padom]

Are these the magazines?

SR-25 AR10 .308 | 20 Rd SS - Blem

Our 20rd .308 magazines meet the highest standards. These stainless steel magazines are built to withstand punishment from the range and out in the field.

www.ammosc.com

What is the coal that can be run in these so I can compare to the steel magazines I already have? Do these run well in most of your rifles? What is the Internal dimension of the magazine itself?

Never bought their bless but yes....max COAL was like 2.865....they used to say it on their site...not sure why they don't anymore...

 

[bobke]

Not to rain on ASC too hard, but the last dozen mags I purchased from them varied enough dimensionally in width that in a pair of Mega Maten lowers that I built up as 6.5CM, combined with Mega dimensional +\- mag well tolerances of a non mil spec receiver, the mags would drop free after a shot, or not stay in at all.
These were all newer style radiused front feed lip 10 rounders, and tried their older design square feed lip 5 rounders to no avail in Mega, but did work in older Black Rain receivers with tighter mag well tolerances. Seems to be a worst case scenario of stacked manufacturing tolerances.
Have used ASC mags for years now, most often have recommended them for 6.5 CM for their longer OAL capacity, but recent QC, rough edges, dripping from coatings and more especially tolerances to narrow side of width has me looking for alternative sources. Talking to their service rep, he said they don’t specifically state the mags work for CM-they’re designed for 308, but as case head dimensions are same, they should in my understanding.
Passing along my personal recent experience, hoping others have seen something to the contrary, or they get their stamping and forming dies within an acceptable standard.

 

[TurboTrout]

If I were to look at the JP Enterprises AR or other brand, how light can I go without giving up accuracy? Can you give me a recommended build to look at? Is it possible to have a custom made AR10 in 6.5 made that will take 140 G Bergers?

Call them and tell them your mission, I don’t think anything leaves that place that’s not pretty damn accurate

They can build just about anything you like, though I normally just have them build me uppers and I’ll build a nice 80% based lower for it, because it’s fun and murica!

 

[padom]

Not to rain on ASC too hard, but the last dozen mags I purchased from them varied enough dimensionally in width that in a pair of Mega Maten lowers that I built up as 6.5CM, combined with Mega dimensional +\- mag well tolerances of a non mil spec receiver, the mags would drop free after a shot, or not stay in at all.
These were all newer style radiused front feed lip 10 rounders, and tried their older design square feed lip 5 rounders to no avail in Mega, but did work in older Black Rain receivers with tighter mag well tolerances. Seems to be a worst case scenario of stacked manufacturing tolerances.
Have used ASC mags for years now, most often have recommended them for 6.5 CM for their longer OAL capacity, but recent QC, rough edges, dripping from coatings and more especially tolerances to narrow side of width has me looking for alternative sources. Talking to their service rep, he said they don’t specifically state the mags work for CM-they’re designed for 308, but as case head dimensions are same, they should in my understanding.
Passing along my personal recent experience, hoping others have seen something to the contrary, or they get their stamping and forming dies within an acceptable standard.

Interesting....I only have MEGA large frame receiver sets (3). Built in 308 and 6.5cm.. I run KAC mags but I did pick up a few ASC years ago to test and they looked, felt, ran just like my KAC.... only difference I found dimensionally between the 2 was KAC allowed coal 2.872 vs ASC 2.865...

I also exclusively run ASC SS 5.56 mags in my DMR for the long COAL...

Sad to hear their quality and QC has fallen off. I admittedly haven't purchased any mags from them in many years but the ones I do have run great...never had an issue