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Would you shoot this match?

Would you participate?

  • Absolutely, sign me up!!

    Votes: 63 68.5%
  • Nah bro, gtfo!

    Votes: 29 31.5%

  • Total voters
    92
Been tried. The only way to build a match to cut out heavy gear is to include rucking/walking. Or have matches with 3+ minute stages. Both will cut the attendance drastically.

For 90s and 2min stages. Most anything can tough out using a 22lb rifle and 8lb bag.

You have to make things damn near trivial to eliminate it when running the prs type matches.
LOVE the intent here (and very much appreciate the podcast(y)) but it's not strictly true that rucking/walking is the only way to cut heavy gear. Much of the conversation regarding match design centres on a false dichotomy between hard limits/restrictions and an "anything goes" attitude. In my experience launching a shooting sport and assisting in match design, a hybrid approach is best. Any match that includes ~10-15% of the total round count shot from a combination of unsupported offhand, seated, kneeling and sitting will significantly strip gear weight from any shooter who wants to be competitive. None of this precludes stages that enable all the 'toys' but nobody is winning the above-mentioned match with a 20lb+ rifle.
 
What was described in the first post is what I currently run with 2 exceptions: I use a can or brake depending on circumstances and have a 1 lb trigger pull but 1.5 in no big deal...I would be fine shooting this match, I'd just remove my Hellfire and add a couple turns to my trigger weight and be ready to go right now.
 
. Any match that includes ~10-15% of the total round count shot from a combination of unsupported offhand, seated, kneeling and sitting will significantly strip gear weight from any shooter who wants to be competitive. None of this precludes stages that enable all the 'toys' but nobody is winning the above-mentioned match with a 20lb+ rifle.
People often say this, but if you look at Service Rifle weights, where all the shooting is positional including offhand, they put just as much weight in as we do in PRS. Weight always adds stability.
 
People often say this, but if you look at Service Rifle weights, where all the shooting is positional including offhand, they put just as much weight in as we do in PRS. Weight always adds stability.

Yea, we put weights in them for sure, but not 25 pounds. I think the heaviest I ever shot was 17, and it's closer to 15 now. I couldn't stand the front weights, it was just too much. I know plenty of people that go all the weigh to 18-19 though, and it's ridiculous.
 
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20lb rifle weight limit--Yup, already there.
Only one bag for the entire match--Yup, pint Sized GC.
8lb bag limit--Yup, psgc with sand is less than 6lbs.
1.5lb minimum trigger weight--Yup, can do.
No muzzle devices--Yup, Isn't that how we all started?
 
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This is entertaining to see, all these people butt-hurt about someone who shoots a 24-lb rifle vs a 20-lbs rifle, or having a trigger pull weight of 1.5-lbs vs 2.5-lbs. I see the same people butt-hurt about tac tables, and tripods, but say nothing about a 10-lb game changer, CkyPod, or a barricade stop.

Who the hell cares what other people use or how their rifle is configured? In the end, the same people will be the top finishers no matter what is allowed or not allowed.

Next thing you know people will be arguing about 6mm vs 6.5mm and what the color of the other guys chassis is, because it's painted flat black, and your bright pink Cerikote finish has too much glare, and it's not fair.

Get a grip with reality, if you suck at shooting, then practice and get better. Complaining about other people's gear is not going to make you a better shooter.

Nothing in life is fair, and that includes matches that are based on practical shooting applications. If you want all these rules, then go shoot Service Rifle. There they could care less if you shoot weak hand, and opt to use a sling or not. But you're limited to a lot of those things the crybabies are whining about.

Jeez, get a life.
 
I’d shoot your match if I could run a can. My hearing is integral to my profession and I’ve pretty much committed to only shooting suppressed. In fact, it was match shooting that led me to that conclusion. I would prefer everyone run a can and I feel like I owe it to the spotters, staff, RO’s and other attendees to run a quiet gun. I couldn’t care less about the rest. Trigger, weight, bags, whatever. I’ll make do. But I’d only really be interested if suppressors were allowed.
 
Reading the responses to this thread I’m surprised there aren’t any “silencer only” matches out there.
 
So, the goal is to test skills and such that used to be tested a lot, and now with bags and rifles being used.....the shooter is being almost removed from the equation.

(I am **NOT** saying current matches are bad. They are fun. Not debating that).

I also want shooters to be able to use their current setup with only a little/easy modification.

So, would you shoot a match with following restrictions:

20lb rifle weight limit (scope and such included)
Only one bag for the entire match (same bag for everything)
8lb bag limit (no larger than pump pillow)
1.5lb minimum trigger weight
No muzzle devices (no cans or brakes)

To explain further, the removal of brakes alleviates the need to set a weight limit like 16lbs. Many shooters only have one comp gun and they can’t get it below 20lbs without major changes or another rifle. The recoil added from no break would take the place of a lower weight restriction.
Sounds to me like a "Service Rifle" rules approach to a match. Limits shooters to similar gear and course of fire. I'd be game. 2 questions; are semi auto and bolt in the same class, would there be an upper limit on scope magnification? My thought is shoot semi and bolt in one class I'm not as familiar with scopes to say place un upper limit.
 
This is entertaining to see, all these people butt-hurt about someone who shoots a 24-lb rifle vs a 20-lbs rifle, or having a trigger pull weight of 1.5-lbs vs 2.5-lbs. I see the same people butt-hurt about tac tables, and tripods, but say nothing about a 10-lb game changer, CkyPod, or a barricade stop.

Who the hell cares what other people use or how their rifle is configured? In the end, the same people will be the top finishers no matter what is allowed or not allowed.

Next thing you know people will be arguing about 6mm vs 6.5mm and what the color of the other guys chassis is, because it's painted flat black, and your bright pink Cerikote finish has too much glare, and it's not fair.

Get a grip with reality, if you suck at shooting, then practice and get better. Complaining about other people's gear is not going to make you a better shooter.

Nothing in life is fair, and that includes matches that are based on practical shooting applications. If you want all these rules, then go shoot Service Rifle. There they could care less if you shoot weak hand, and opt to use a sling or not. But you're limited to a lot of those things the crybabies are whining about.

Jeez, get a life.
You are missing the point and by no small margin. Form follows function and different matches emerge because a growing number of the shooting community believes in the primacy of practical rifle skills instead of gear. It's not that anyone cares what anyone else shoots, it's that some of us care that the skills we develop in shooting matches reliably transfer to real-world scenarios.
 
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You are missing the point and by no small margin. Form follows function and different matches emerge because a growing number of the shooting community believes in the primacy of practical rifle skills instead of gear. It's not that anyone cares what anyone else shoots, it's that some of us care that the skills we develop in shooting matches reliably transfer to real-world scenarios.
Yes, you are free to care about whether or not skills are developed for yourself, but why care about someone else's skills, and whether they are developed or not?

Everyone is different, we all come in different shapes, and sizes. We all grow old, and for me, my elbows are shot (nerve damage), so there's things I do to avoid the pain and further damage. If I choose to use a piece of gear to make up for my physical limitations, who are you to decide what is best for me, works me, and what I need to avoid?

Face it, no one here is ever going to agree on what should be allowed or disallowed. If you want to look at it from a different perspective, then we should stop using bipods and bags all together, as they are a piece of equipment that aids your shooting, some could say is a crutch, and you could use the same argument that it takes away certain skills. Agree or disagree, everyone needs to face reality.
 
So, the goal is to test skills and such that used to be tested a lot, and now with bags and rifles being used.....the shooter is being almost removed from the equation.

(I am **NOT** saying current matches are bad. They are fun. Not debating that).

I also want shooters to be able to use their current setup with only a little/easy modification.

So, would you shoot a match with following restrictions:

20lb rifle weight limit (scope and such included)
Only one bag for the entire match (same bag for everything)
8lb bag limit (no larger than pump pillow)
1.5lb minimum trigger weight
No muzzle devices (no cans or brakes)

To explain further, the removal of brakes alleviates the need to set a weight limit like 16lbs. Many shooters only have one comp gun and they can’t get it below 20lbs without major changes or another rifle. The recoil added from no break would take the place of a lower weight restriction.
I definitely would.
 
Yes, you are free to care about whether or not skills are developed for yourself, but why care about someone else's skills, and whether they are developed or not?

Everyone is different, we all come in different shapes, and sizes. We all grow old, and for me, my elbows are shot (nerve damage), so there's things I do to avoid the pain and further damage. If I choose to use a piece of gear to make up for my physical limitations, who are you to decide what is best for me, works me, and what I need to avoid?

Face it, no one here is ever going to agree on what should be allowed or disallowed. If you want to look at it from a different perspective, then we should stop using bipods and bags all together, as they are a piece of equipment that aids your shooting, some could say is a crutch, and you could use the same argument that it takes away certain skills. Agree or disagree, everyone needs to face reality.
Couldn't agree more on eliminating bags and bipod. Great comment.
 
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I wonder if you could put the limits on the match that you want and then let anyone that wants to shoot it with whatever just understand their score won't count towards anything. If the match can support say 80 shooters and you get 60 that want to play the game by the rules let them compete within said rules and the others can hang out and shoot whatever they want. If one of those guys wins by 20 shots, oh well he didn't shoot within the match rules and gets exactly squat. 2 divisions, competition and non. Non-competing gets nothing except the experience.
 
Hell you've already priced most new shooters out of the game already. 4000 rifles 2000 scopes 1300 cans why not open sites and a stock rifle. That will test your skills.
 
Post #99 - Fsh4mny has it right

Run it like an IROC race

Same equipment for every one - seems like different manufacturers would be interested in stepping up - could also have different setups/ spec guns for different matches to showcase different manufacturers goods and keep each match on a more equal footing - making each stage more suitable to a shooters style using said equipment than say the previous match - but no sandbaggers cherry picking which equipment at which match suits them best - perhaps a 5 match series and a 3 match minimum sign up - lots of ways to spin this - just eliminate the equipment and make it about the shooter - some 14 year old with out any equipment hang ups will probably smoke us all ... “INTAC Shooterama” - Indian Not The Arrow Championship Shooterama - or some pc version of this ... ok you can blow this idea up now ...
 
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Precision rifle is the only division of the shooting sports I've participated in that spends more time trying to slow down good shooters, or progress for that matter. Bitching about someone else's equipment is never going to make you a better shooter. If you don't like getting beat by a guy using a tripod for rear support? Learn how to use a tripod for rear support. And the weight argument is just ridiculous. It's almost as if some folks don't understand the reason behind it. Hell, it seems most of you don't even know the reason behind shooting competitions. If you think it's just about beating the shooter next to you, maybe video games would be more suitable for you.

With all this talk about recoil reduction from muzzle devices and rifle weights, would there be divisions based on body weight? I'm only 180lbs and I have to manage the same recoil as someone that weighs 230lbs....how fair is that?

As far as bags....carry as many as you want. Hell, bring a couch to shoot off of. If you can manage several bags on the clock during the stage good on you. The top 10 shooters in the match could shit in a sock, and still beat half the field using that for support.

Constantly imposing rules to limit the shooters isn't far from giving everyone a participation trophy.
 
Precision rifle is the only division of the shooting sports I've participated in that spends more time trying to slow down good shooters, or progress for that matter. Bitching about someone else's equipment is never going to make you a better shooter. If you don't like getting beat by a guy using a tripod for rear support? Learn how to use a tripod for rear support. And the weight argument is just ridiculous. It's almost as if some folks don't understand the reason behind it. Hell, it seems most of you don't even know the reason behind shooting competitions. If you think it's just about beating the shooter next to you, maybe video games would be more suitable for you.

With all this talk about recoil reduction from muzzle devices and rifle weights, would there be divisions based on body weight? I'm only 180lbs and I have to manage the same recoil as someone that weighs 230lbs....how fair is that?

As far as bags....carry as many as you want. Hell, bring a couch to shoot off of. If you can manage several bags on the clock during the stage good on you. The top 10 shooters in the match could shit in a sock, and still beat half the field using that for support.

Constantly imposing rules to limit the shooters isn't far from giving everyone a participation trophy.
Exactly! That’s precisely why the time on PRS matches are getting shorter and shorter and “all gear in hand” or “deploy on the clock” if you need it than use it but it is going to cost you time. You make the decision.
 
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So you want everyone to take off some weight and there muzzle brake?
So that means that top shoots will still win... the middle pack still be middle pack... and the beginners/new shooters still be at the bottom?

What does this change?

I find matches with "deploy on the clock" and "all gear within arms length" to be a good way to keep the "gear race" from taking over. If you don't want shooters using a bean bag... just add in "bag smaller then a square foot"

Also funny seeing how many people are so into suppressors... I have shot matches in CO/UT/AZ/WA/WY/etc and usually see less then 10-20% of the field running suppressors.... So you still have to wear ear pro, so what difference does it make?
 
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I like the practical concept of this. I think a can should be standard equipment for the modern Rifleman. If a competitor has his act together enough to own a can he should not be brought down to the level of the less equipped. We should keep the equipment standards high enough to lift others. This does not prohibit someone who does not own one, but rather could be an opportunity to educate and lift others to a better way of doing things. So long story short, yes I would shoot the match but please allow silencers as long as they make weight. So if the intent is to test the running of a rifle you would use in the "real world" IMHO a silencer is basic or "standard" modern Rifleman equipment. Thanks!
Should not be brought down to my level? Wow, didn’t know because I choose not to run or for that matter own a can I’m so far beneath you! I’m with some of the others I guess, there comes a point when limits have to be set in every sport. IMO shooting is about the experience and you shouldn’t have to spend your retirement money in order to at least be in the realm of competitive. Just an opinion from a low level shooter I guess.
 
If I allowed muzzle brakes, then I have to limit weight. Then I lose a lot of shooters who don’t have a rifle that meets the weight. More than I lose for shooting bare muzzle.

As for practical.......train harder than you fight. If you learn to control recoil without a brake, you’ll perform even better with your brake when it’s time for that real life shot.
Wonderfully stated! You asked a simple question and laid out simple guidelines but yet the whining began anyway.
Personally I love shooting my 17lb .308(no can, no brake, just a simple bipod and bag). If someone says they’re starting a Volkswagen only drag race, don’t show up with a Corvette kicking and screaming that you should be able to join!
 
Bags? Hell. Just have a 50lb bag of rice and hand everyone a tube sock when they sign in. As much rice as they want, as long as they can still knot the sock. Then they can have a 1lb bag or a heavier one. As for cans; if you shoot without a can you get a second sock. If you catch someone cheating don’t ban them. Just give them an old fashioned blanket party with everyone’s rice sock.
 
IMO shooting is about the experience and you shouldn’t have to spend your retirement money in order to at least be in the realm of competitive. Just an opinion from a low level shooter I guess.
It's unfortunate that this is the culture being pushed right now. When I shot my first match in 2017, the old shooters were quick to show me how to build solid positions, transition smoothly, locate targets quickly, determine wind, etc, before every stage and even let me re-run it after a stage if I didn't do well. There were no chassis weights, gamer plates, tac tables, or 18 different types of fancy bags, and tripods were used to hold spotting scopes and binos. And none of them made suggestions that I needed to do anything to my gun or gear except add a muzzle brake.

Now new shooters are being taught the way to "beat" a stage is with their gear selection, and it's perpetuated on the internet as much as it is at the range. Just spend more money and buy more things to help you win. And maybe they actually do hit a few more plates, but they still look absolutely terrible doing it, and will never be more than a mid pack shooter until they learn how to actually shoot. Trust me, don't get caught up in the gear, grind away with whatever rifle you have and you will surpass everyone that just tries to throw money at it and not develop real skills.
 
@lte82 I whole heartedly disagree. I shot with a Manners stock with one weight (gun was under 20lbs), rear tripod on one stage all year and one schmedium bag. But hey, I only managed to finish 2nd at the Regional Finale and 7th in the region for the year.

It's a massive misconception that you need a lot of gear to be competitive.
 
I dont get the whole wanting to create something new but still cater to typical PRS shooters and their current setups using mild gear restrictions that force them to shoot a certain way but also not too strict that it deters them.

Sounds like PRS lite.

Doesnt the stage naturaly determine what gear is best?

For 98% of PRS stages the answer is heavy bag, heavy gun, tripod.

Can somone create stages that the above isnt the answer to? Maybe the lack of creativity in stages is the real reason its come to this. The easy button is to restrict gear. But can you design stages that make certain gear an advantage or a handicap?
 
This right here, the ass-hat stage designs for the most part is what is driving the introduction of more gear.

As I always say, make the targets smaller, and put them further out, and it will make it challenging no matter what gear is available.
 
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@lte82 I whole heartedly disagree. I shot with a Manners stock with one weight (gun was under 20lbs), rear tripod on one stage all year and one schmedium bag. But hey, I only managed to finish 2nd at the Regional Finale and 7th in the region for the year.

It's a massive misconception that you need a lot of gear to be competitive.

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with, what you posted was my exact point lol. You don't need crazy amounts of gear to compete or even win. I've won matches with a single bag and no gamer gear.

I just went to a club match and shot with new shooters for the first time in a while, and several of these guys had zero form or skill, but were wielding 25 lb dashers with gamer plates and tripods and couldn't finish mid pack. I tried to show two of them how to build a better position on a couple of stages but they didn't listen and didn't care. They would rather discuss which piece of gear they needed to hit more next time.
 
I get that everyone doesn’t have one, but I think we should be encouraging everyone with a rifle to get one.

You said yourself that you should practice for “when it’s time for that real life shot.” Any and all real life shots I’ve made over the last several years have been with a can on my rifle.

You do realize there are states that don't allow suppressors, right!
 
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Doesnt the stage naturaly determine what gear is best?

For 98% of PRS stages the answer is heavy bag, heavy gun, tripod.

Can somone create stages that the above isnt the answer to? Maybe the lack of creativity in stages is the real reason its come to this. The easy button is to restrict gear. But can you design stages that make certain gear an advantage or a handicap?

More movement and faster par times, and limit the total number of shots from each position. IE, 8 shots from 8 positions vs 8 shots from 1-4 positions, and 90 second par times vs 120 seconds. "Windows" like ladder rungs, or windows / ports on a shoot house where you actually have to move the gun and bag fore and aft, in and out, as well horizontally and vertically. Transition speed & smoothness on those types of stages gets much harder with heavier equipment. I would also move away from the super tiny targets beyond 400 yards, so people don't feel the need to use rear support to be stable enough to hit it. Throw up 1.5-2.5 moa targets, but make the stage harder and faster by making people move their body and their gear, find the targets, dial, and build solid positions quicker. 120 seconds to shoot 8-10 shots from 1-4 positions with almost zero rifle movement for every stage is what is allowing the 25 lb gamer gun to succeed.

You dont even have to make *every* stage fast and with lots of transitions, but build enough of them into the match so that you have to succeed on those stages as well to place or win.
 
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You do realize there are states that don't allow suppressors, right!

Yeah sucks to be them. I don’t shoot in those states. I don’t see the point in carving out exceptions for the handful of places that don’t allow freedom. USPSA doesn’t limit all the other open, limited or CO to 10 rounds just because California does.
 
I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with, what you posted was my exact point lol. You don't need crazy amounts of gear to compete or even win. I've won matches with a single bag and no gamer gear.

I just went to a club match and shot with new shooters for the first time in a while, and several of these guys had zero form or skill, but were wielding 25 lb dashers with gamer plates and tripods and couldn't finish mid pack. I tried to show two of them how to build a better position on a couple of stages but they didn't listen and didn't care. They would rather discuss which piece of gear they needed to hit more next time.
I.must have misread or misinterpreted your post. My apologies.

I disagree with the notion of limiting gear through rules. You don't necessarily need to add a ruck to make people feel the weight or length of a rifle. Stage design can play a huge part. It's been discussed shortening part times and changing the position to shot ratio. But why not introduce movement in other ways? Drag a mannequin 10 or 15yds to the firing line and then shot from 5-6 positions. Start on the ground all gear in hand and climb a flight of stairs up to the firing position. Make guys do mag changes at every position. Make the positions non-linear; start on the far left, go to the middle, go back to center left, go to far right finish on the center right.
 
It's unfortunate that this is the culture being pushed right now. When I shot my first match in 2017, the old shooters were quick to show me how to build solid positions, transition smoothly, locate targets quickly, determine wind, etc, before every stage and even let me re-run it after a stage if I didn't do well. There were no chassis weights, gamer plates, tac tables, or 18 different types of fancy bags, and tripods were used to hold spotting scopes and binos. And none of them made suggestions that I needed to do anything to my gun or gear except add a muzzle brake.

Now new shooters are being taught the way to "beat" a stage is with their gear selection, and it's perpetuated on the internet as much as it is at the range. Just spend more money and buy more things to help you win. And maybe they actually do hit a few more plates, but they still look absolutely terrible doing it, and will never be more than a mid pack shooter until they learn how to actually shoot. Trust me, don't get caught up in the gear, grind away with whatever rifle you have and you will surpass everyone that just tries to throw money at it and not develop real skills.
There is a fine balance to be struck here. We should always strive to improve our capabilities, even if it's with gear. This problem isn't going to get solved with more restrictions. It's an education issue for new shooters. They spend way too much time listening to the middle and lower level shooters. I've been shooting competitively for 23 years across 4 disciplines and it is the same in each, new shooters will try to throw money at their struggles on the range. If they have the money to do it, they just pay an expensive lesson (I know from personal experience). If they don't have the money, they should seek better ways to improve and they will be better shooters for it (this took me too long to learn).

Rather than be a fucking nanny and try to limit the gear race, you have two options: Push more education on the newer shooters, or modify the match and stage design to make more gear prohibitive on its own. Some of the best 3-Gun matches ever held were done by Kyle Lamb and he didn't have gear restrictions. He designed a match that eliminated all but the most practical gear and let the shooters decide for themselves.

All of the action shooting sports have one thing in common, they pose a shooting problem to the shooter and let them determine how they are going to solve it. If your only means of managing what gear they use is with restrictions, your match/stage design needs to improve to match your intent. Stop trying to level the playing field with arbitrary restrictions and let ingenuity and dedication carry shooters to the top.
 
I'd like to see a thread started where everyone that says "stage design" throws out a well laid out stage. I feel very blessed that our small local club has 3 ranges that we rotate each month, but even with the land we have there is only so many ways to skin a cat. Blaming MDs stage designs seems to be the go to thing here lately.
 
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I'd like to see a thread started where everyone that says "stage design" throws out a well laid out stage. I feel very blessed that our small local club has 3 ranges that we rotate each month, but even with the land we have there is only so many ways to skin a cat. Blaming MDs stage designs seems to be the go to thing here lately.
Nobody is blaming the stage design of every MD, there are some magnificent ones all over the country. But, if they are complaining about the amount of gear shooters are using while not modifying their courses of fire, it's going to be addressed.
 
Nobody is blaming the stage design of every MD, there are some magnificent ones all over the country. But, if they are complaining about the amount of gear shooters are using while not modifying their courses of fire, it's going to be addressed.

If you read enough of these gear threads, there is absolutely a TON of people blaming stage design. It's a lose lose situation to me. If a match required a ton of movement eventually people would get tired of that and the complaining would go the other way. "It's not a fitness competition, it's a shooting match" it all just comes around to you can't make everyone happy.
 
Maybe the answer is there isnt just one alternative to the cookie cutter PRS, that many people still enjoy BTW. There is no one size fits all. Maybe it can splinter into a few directions? Like car racing how many different types of car racing is there, then divisions inside that?

I'll shoot any match at least once. I'll either love it and keep doing it or not.

I hate to quote Nike but "Just do it"
 
It all goes back to how do you get everyone to show up and reward the ones who are doing it the marksman way vs the gear route

I still think the answer is bracket racing style division. Reward the guys relying on fundamentals with a points multiplier / different handicap and it'll make guys try to pursue the top of the ranks in that method.
But..
If someone is a gear guy and just wants to shoot bean bag chair bench rest then just let them have it. Their personal thing may be hit percentage. Still let them come play the game and let them enjoy it... Just don't let them make it to the top of the charts / podium by doing the things that are not in the direction you are trying to take your group.

Hey everyone out at the match shooting no matter what it is, and reward the guys that are putting in the work, and it'll work itself out
 
It all goes back to how do you get everyone to show up and reward the ones who are doing it the marksman way vs the gear route

I still think the answer is bracket racing style division. Reward the guys relying on fundamentals with a points multiplier / different handicap and it'll make guys try to pursue the top of the ranks in that method.
But..
If someone is a gear guy and just wants to shoot bean bag chair bench rest then just let them have it. Their personal thing may be hit percentage. Still let them come play the game and let them enjoy it... Just don't let them make it to the top of the charts / podium by doing the things that are not in the direction you are trying to take your group.

Hey everyone out at the match shooting no matter what it is, and reward the guys that are putting in the work, and it'll work itself out
If you think gear is advancing shooters to the podium you must not have been around a lot of good shooters.

One thing a lot of you seem to misunderstand is that the guys in the top 20 are mostly only competing with the top 20. If you gave them all 15lb rifles and a game changer, the majority of them would still finish on top. The folks at the top don't need the extra gear to beat everyone else at the match....they need it to beat each other.
 
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If you think gear is advancing shooters to the podium you must not have been around a lot of good shooters.

One thing a lot of you seem to misunderstand is that the guys in the top 20 are mostly only competing with the top 20. If you gave them all 15lb rifles and a game changer, the majority of them would still finish on top. The folks at the top don't need the extra gear to beat everyone else at the match....they need it to beat each other.
Doesn't change the fact that if they can't get the podium/ first place with their "game gun" due to a bracket or handicap then they will have to shoot via the more "rewarded" discipline. If all 20 top shooters are at the bottom in points because their bracket puts them behind the curve then they will change over to the direction that DT is trying to push them. Once the guys on the top spots are shooting 10lb bare muzzle 300 Norma then the article about what the pros use will reflect such and POOF every new gun guy thinks this is what he must do as well

A 14sec car can cross the finish line before a 12sec car... Just depends how many lights he got in the bracket. The bracket is there to make it so that reaction time had more to do with who won... Think of that as there fundamental... Fundamentals win bracket races... Bracket the rifles and give handicaps for all the goodies and the guy making 1/2 as many hits will win while doing it the hard way compared to the top 20 guys making 95% hits with a game gun... This seems to be what DT is trying to migrate them away from
 
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Well this pretty much sums up our country...

OP thanks for taking the time and most likey putting in effort to making this happen. Even if you don't put this match on (I would not blame you with all the bitching).

At the end of the day we have a man trying to help grow a sport that we all love. Instead of supporting that man a lot of bitching is taking place. I guess reading comprehension has gone out the window? He stated the rules he was thinking and it was a simple yes/no answer requested. Look at all these responses and ask yourself why anyone would want to take on running a match.

I have been shooting matches before the PRS was a thing. Guess what? Some people actually tried to help one another more times than not back then. You were given wind calls to help get you on target. No one had a look at me sponsorship shirt. Good people having a good time. I would like to see more of it again myself.

At one point some matches were 308 only. I know crazy right? The 6.5CM wasn't even out ...YMMV
 
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