Re: Yes, I'm starting a caliber debate...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: machinisttx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proverbs 18:19</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: didithurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I wasn't even going to chime in here... But I see alot of spots where someone could be confused. This is experience only, not opinion. I put 5 rounds of 9mm into an angry, pissed, person in a different country, the only thing that stopped him after 3 shots to the chest and a shot to the head was a SECOND shot to the HEAD. When I got home I went to a .45. My BACKUP pistol is a .357 ruger revolver. I can hand load .38 rounds all day to target with, but when I leave the range, I put in full magnum loads. I thought about a Desert Eagle .44 for a side arm, but found it to be too "bulky" to move quickly, I am considering a Glock 10mm for my sidearm and will keep the .357 as a backup to that. I've said all that to re-iterate what jethro21 said...
In the event adrenaline is SURGING through your body...
".38 or .357 are both decent choices...you will only feel the recoil when you practice."
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Exactly. I used my backup Ruger sp101 in 357 with a 2 and a quarter inch barrel in a self-defense situation. 5 shots against two subjects with 4 hits from 2-10 yards. penetration was complete. 2 exits wounds with minimal expansion. 2 exit wounds with massive tissue damage with bone fragments. subject one chest wound and abdominal wound. subject 2 with 2 hits to the pelvis. neither survived. never felt or heard anything. can't even remember seeing the sights. the only thing that i had later was blood splattered on my clothes, ringing of the ears and an overwhelming feeling of anger. cops said it was justified. have since abandoned the 357 for a 9mm with a more rapidly expanding bullit design. recoil is only felt during practice. </div></div>
Out of curiousity, what load was used? 125 grain SJHP Remington magnums run 1300 fps out of my 2.25" SP101, and make a mess out of cats. The equivalent load from Federal is about 50 fps slower. The rem load hasn't failed to expand in water testing, though weight retention is on the low side. It fragments a lot like M193 from a 5.56.
If you were comfortable with the ruger, there wasn't any reason to change guns/calibers---the ammo simply wasn't suited to that use.
To be more precise, the bullet didn't get enough velocity from that barrel length to expand properly. </div></div>
Points well made.
First I was using 158 gr jhp. With a better bullet selection I could have obtained better expansion. My bad.
Second I can and still do feel comfortable with my 101. It has just been transferred from back up concealed weapon to my rucksack for hiking in bear country in East Tennessee with my daughter.
Third. After 5 shots I came to the realization that I was unarmed except for a very expensive stainless steel rock.
Lastly. The incident got me to thinking. I was in a built up area with literally hundreds of people within range. I fired 5 rounds that were not backstopped. Most self-defense scenarios will be in the vicinity of innocents. There has to be a weapon/bullet combination with adequate killing power that minimizes the danger to noncombatants. After taking game with a 9mm using highly frangibles I think that is the way to go but I am open to suggestion.
I do not mean to highjack this thread and want to stress that the 357 is an excellent self-defense round. I am extremely confident it its ability to produce one shot kills and with practice it is very controllable. There are many holes filled with bad guys because of the killing power of the 357 magnum. I still practice with my little ruger on a monthly basis but will probably end up giving it to my daughter as she goes into bear country a lot more often than I do. Maybe she can start protecting me one of these days.
