308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

[michaeltx]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this board.

I went to the range today, second trip with this rifle. I was shooting 175smks, Varget, CCI BR, fed brass. Started at 40.0, tumbled. Moved to 42.0, tumbled. Then 43.0, in LC brass, tumbled. I then tried factory gmm 168gr, and that even tumbled. The twist rate is 11.25, cut the same as the m24 barrel. The barrel was designed for the m118 ball. Am I just not pushing hard enough yet? I talked to a reloader I've gone to for a while, and he told me to give up and move down to a 155gr bullet, but I didn't buy this rifle to shoot 155gr. I really want to get the 175s to work, but is a couple grains of powder going to possibly make the difference between tumbling and accurate shooting?

 

[sniper7mm]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

I am going out on a limb and assuming you are shooting to 1000 yds?
If so the 175 SMK ahead of 45 grains of Varget should get you there.
The 155 grain will also get there. The 168's only good to about 800 yards.

I am sure others will chime in.

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Oh, forgot to say. Nope, tumbling at 100 yards. Had some nice holes in the paper that were totally sideways, could make out the bullet from tip to boattail.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

You have some other kind of issue. I have owned two 5R's and there are a BUNCH of owners here on the Hide with them. The 168's or 175's will shoot fine in the 1:11.25 barrel...again...you have a issue that does not have to do with your ammo it sounds.

Good luck,Stan

 

[Guest]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Muzzle Crown

 

[308sako]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

.

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Thanks guys, looks like it's time to contact remington. I talked to the range master and the first thing he said was muzzle crown as well. Bummer.

Oh well, if it's the rifle at least I can feel a bit better that it wasn't my hand loads

 

[wirehand]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Able to post any pics of that crown ?
Is there even rifling in the barrel ?

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Just for grins, have you tried any factory ammo? Maybe a box of Federal Gold Medal Match in 175? It's just a thought.

 

[wirehand]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: michael.tx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I then tried factory gmm 168gr, and that even tumbled. </div></div>

Definatly don't mention reloads to Remmy.

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

as an FYI, I shoot the 168 AMAX to 1000 yards in my 5R with zero tumbling problems..

Im getting pretty tired of hearing that the 168's wont make it to 1K

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

I'll post a pic of the crown soon, camera has to charge. The crown looks kind of weird, I can see the rifling very easily, like there's a very shallow cut to the crown, not as recessed as I see on my other rifles.

 

[TomS308]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

The milspec rifles have an interesting history about them that does make them unique. Whether unique is good or bad will depend on each persons perspective in this case. The single big thing that makes the milspec unique, and consequently gives it the milspec name, is the barrel. The way the milspec came about, as told to me by a Remington LE division employee, was a byproduct of the M24 production line. There are specific tolerances that each M24 Barrel must achieve in order to pass inspection. As is normal in any production line some of the barrels will not meet those specifications and Remington would toss those barrels into the "no-go" pile and discard them (I am not sure where they used to go from there). It turns out that someone had the idea of taking those barrels that did not pass inspection and re-contour the barrel to the standard Remington heavy barrel contour, mount it to a Remington 700 stainless action, and call it a "Milspec" rifle.

I would check out the bore and crown..

from the article at http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml

http://www.snipercentral.com/

 

[Joeyhotfizzle]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as an FYI, I shoot the 168 AMAX to 1000 yards in my 5R with zero tumbling problems..

Im getting pretty tired of hearing that the 168's wont make it to 1K </div></div>

I think he meant the 168 SMK's not the A-max's. IIRC the design of the 168 SMK's boat tail is the cause (I have read a long thread about this in here a long time ago and not from personal experience).

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Taking a picture this close up was a challenge.

 

[wirehand]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Doesn't look bad, hard to say from this angle.
There does appear to be twist in the rifling.
Maybe if it were me I would comfirm the twist with a tight patch and some marks on the cleaning rod.

 

[USMCj]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: michael.tx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but I didn't buy this rifle to shoot 155gr. I really want to get the 175s to work, </div></div>

Why the hell not? The 155 Scenars will beat the shit out of the 175s any time of the day! My 5R hates the 175s but sure does love 155 Scenars over 46.2 RL15!

Do some reading, there is no reason to choose the 175's over the 155 Scenars, NONE!!!

 

[spot69221]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

I have shot worse crowns than that!

No way a bullet should tumble that bad in 100 yds.

I would guess, you got a wrong twist barrel. When you speak to Remington call more than one of the techs and see what they say.

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

USMCj: Hadn't looked at that bullet. Didn't know there was a 155 with a .508 BC. That's a wicked bullet, little pricey though. I'm guessing this is the bullet Palma shooters use? I always wondered how the hell they made 1k with a 155.

edit: Just looked, seems sierra makes one that can do it too. I guess I never looked at the 155s, always shot 168 in 308 win before I got this rifle.

 

[USMCj]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Stick with the Scenars, proven performer!

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Already ordered a box from midway

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joeyhotfizzle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as an FYI, I shoot the 168 AMAX to 1000 yards in my 5R with zero tumbling problems..

Im getting pretty tired of hearing that the 168's wont make it to 1K </div></div>

I think he meant the 168 SMK's not the A-max's. IIRC the design of the 168 SMK's boat tail is the cause (I have read a long thread about this in here a long time ago and not from personal experience). </div></div>

I figured as much but people dont distinguish when they say the 168's tumble and that gives a bad perception that all 168's tumble which is not the case. I understand the 168 SMK arent that great past 800 but the amax is a different story and people should clarify when they are talking about them.

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Anyone think it's possible the problem was metalic fouling? I read it's as problem during break-in with this rifling. I had a new scope this trip, boresighted but it was above the paper. I was alone so I couldn't tell where the rounds were going. Probably had a dozen down the bore before I hit the paper and saw the keyholes. Forgot all about cleaning after that until I got home. I didn't get a ton of copper out like I was at first, but definately more than I've seen with other rifles. The longest string I shot without cleaning until yesterday was 4 rounds. How many rounds have you guys used for break-in with these barrels?

Sorry mods that that has become a major OT.

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

I "broke in" my barrel using the method listed on Kreiger barrels page.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

Its a factory barrel so it may or may not have some burs in the barrel due to the manufacturing process. Honestly, take it out and shoot it and do what makes you comfortable. It will most likely tighten up after getting a few rounds down the barrel and cleaning.

Right now, I only clean every 150-200 rounds or if I see a decline in accuracy.

If his rounds are all tumbling at 100 yards, I would say he has a bigger problem.

Michael.. there are a ton of people from TX on this board that Im sure would be more then willing to meet you and try and help you out. After that, I would take some pics of your targets and mark what each of the rounds are on the paper showing that they all tumble and that you even have problems with factory ammo and give Rem a call and tell them you got a bunk rifle. If you know anyone with a bore scope, try and check the barrel for anything obvious. Like I said, you should try and meet up with someone from the board.

 

[robash53]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Have you measured your twist to make sure it is as advertised? Easy enough to do with a good cleaning rod and a piece of masking tape. Been more then one barrel installed as an 11.25 and actually been someting else. Chronographed those loads in question to see what velocities you are getting?

Rob

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Just checked the twist, spot on. I went ahead and cleaned again, no powder residue but I got a ton of copper again. Must have been distracted while cleaning yesterday.

I'll give it one more shot this weekend, can't make it to the smith this week anyway. I've got a box of 150gr powershoks somewhere I'll put through it.

rob: no chrono yet

 

[spot69221]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

Keep us informed, I want to see what you end up as the answer. Your sure on the twist.

 

[michaeltx]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

I just made it back to the range with this rifle. The combination of the TX heat and frustration kept me away I think. Started at 25 yards with factory 150gr fed powershoks, no tumbling. I moved on to 100 yards with the feds, no problem. So I tried the same 45.0 gr load that tumbled last time. Couple scope adjustments, then I shot a group. 3 shot .252". I think that's the best group I've ever shot. Then a 5 shot group of a little under .4".

Crazy, I guess it was just fouling. These were junk reloads I made for my m1a, and it shot like that. I can't wait to get back out there with some well preped stuff. Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[308sako]

Re: 308 load, rem700 5r mil spec, tumbling

!