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Precision Rifle Gear New Athlon Rangecraft Chronograph-Garmin Xero Killer?
- By Varminterror
- The Armory
- 266 Replies
By and large, with 2-3fps spread between units, determining truth with the equipment I currently have available just isn't a reality - even firing a truing test at distance, I'm quite confident I'm not sufficiently skilled to determine on target a difference in velocity of less than 2fps. As I mentioned above, by and large, based on these results, since all of the units agree within all practical application tolerances, either ALL of them are wrong, or ALL of them are correct.
By and large, if any truth exists near or among these results, it appears, based on the nature of the dataset, there is significant indication of both offset AND random "drift" (not drift, but rather simple error). You can see in 1) the heatmap of the total 600 data points, 2) the 30 round non-chronological focused chart, and 3) the intrabrand data table above there's a prevailing order for each unit respective to one another. One of my LabRadar LX's read faster than the other ~2/3 of the time, LabRadars displayed the fastest speed 90% of the time, one of my Garmins read faster than the other ~2/3 of the time and the two Garmins were in the middle of the 3 brands 85% of the time, and the two Athlons gave the slowest readings 89% of the time, with one of the units reading faster than the other ~50% of the time. However, those trends were not 100%, 100%, 100%... The relative offset from one another persists a vast majority of the time, however, random error does swap and flop the order from time to time.
I'll be honest - this isn't my only data set with these devices, although at this time, it IS my largest set - I'm really, really surprised to see the smallest ES and SD from the Athlons. I will point out, however, having the smallest ES and SD in this particular test doesn't necessarily mean the Athlons were the tightest to truth. Considering the EXTREMELY bad ammo used for this test, the Athlons may simply be erring on the inside of the extremes. The Athlons DID display the highest variability between the two units, around twice the deviation between the 2 Athlons as I saw from the 2 Garmins.
I can't speak from direct knowledge, but I also assume the channels are assigned within firmware, but I could be wrong. I could also understand if the $150 offset between the Athlon and the other brands was achieved by using a single channel transmitter. But Athlon has been quite straight forward in stating that they did not design the Velocity Pro's with high radar traffic firing lines in mind, and saved money in development and deployment in living single channel life.
Something I DO find interesting - in my own testing and that I have seen by others so far, it never seems to be Garmins interfering with the Athlons, but rather almost always seems to be LabRadars (or Caldwell VelociRadars, in my personal test). The Garmins do frequency hop when turned on (not sure if they do so mid-operation), so that alignment between the manual frequency swap LabRadar models (maybe Caldwells are fixed? Dunno yet) and NON-alignment with Garmins makes sense. Considering the current market, the interference opportunity would be relatively low - most PRS firing lines won't have many if any LabRadars present, rather a lot of Garmins, and the Garmins will move out of the way of the Athlons.
I have seen lane crossing interferences with Athlons as well as Garmins - and recognize that when the units are lane crossing the LabRadars and Caldwells, those units would be hiding the interference better than the Garmin or Athlons only because of their design - acoustic triggers will still interfere and produce false readings, they just don’t give false triggers to warn you that the interference is coming. The Athlons get stuck in the same re-triggering loop whereas the Garmins I have seen have not been so persistent, and rather are only reporting erroneous velocities (4k velocities for 2.8-3k loads).
Yes, I have tested some side by side data capture, rather than the vertical orientation I have pictured above. I will also offer more and more testing of this nature in the near future (big plans this week and weekend) so I can better demonstrate the sensitivities. Having the units farther spread apart will achieve 2 limits as the beams are peeled farther and farther apart 1) the Athlons are less persistently retriggered as they receive less concentrated radar false echo, 2) the units are better able to determine what is false echo vs. their own signal (report a bad reading vs. recording an incorrect velocity), and 3) eventually, moving sufficiently far apart, the beams will not false-echo back to each other and the false echoes and interference will be eliminated. On this particular day, the farthest outside Athlon did not appear to be interfering with any of the other 4 depicted (and has never interfered by 2 of those other units in subsequent testing), but did repeat 4150-60 fps readings, indicating reception of a false echo from another unit, when one of the other shooters was on the line in the bay beside us (I wanna say these are 11ft bays?).
I CAN state, in my experience so far, I do NOT believe that the chronic, persisting re-triggering loop will happen for any "real world" shooter on a 100yrd zero board or competition firing line, and only happens to those of us concentrating multiple units onto one rifle, BUT, I can also directly state experience in false-echo reception where ANY of these units have displayed a false velocity reading due to nearby radar interference - RARE, exceptionally rare, and extremely obvious, but it remains to be a reality for this kind of device. Not so different than finding out that someone put a shot or two on the wrong target when scoring after a match, just a reality of the practice.
SOLD RRS TFCT 34L w/ Anvil 30
- By zekers7
- Buy - Sell - Trade
- 0 Replies
Used at the range once otherwise mint condition/would argue new.
$1400 shipped
$1400 shipped
50 Shades of FDE - Let's see them.
- By smarcus
- Semi-Automatic Rifles
- 160 Replies
6.5 Creedmoor
The heart is a 16 inch, rifle gas, dimpled, M110K1, 6.5 Creedmoor, Rock Creek Cut Rifled Barrel
The heart is a 16 inch, rifle gas, dimpled, M110K1, 6.5 Creedmoor, Rock Creek Cut Rifled Barrel
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Ukraine war Bullshit.
- By Mr.BR
- The Bear Pit
- 3875 Replies
It looks like numbers initialy claimed were greatly inflated , from 40 so far it looks like might be 12 , so far from 34% of anything. No doubts operation was a stunning succes but ,nothing that would change the balance or course of the war.Probably blowing up 34% of puccian strategic bomber fleet from a coffee shop in Kyiv 3+ years into a failed 3 day blyatzkrieg laughing at zigger lovers
But it is definitely now rising alarms in the west as well as we look at our own airforces' vulnerability to exactly same type attack
June 2025 Topstraps Rimfire Challenge Dates
- By Topstrap
- All Things Rimfire
- 0 Replies
Greetings fellow shooters from Topstraps Rimfire Challenge here in Eastern Ohio. This month the match dates are June 6th (Friday), 7th (Saturday) and 8th (Sunday). You can come anytime thru the day and it takes about an hour to shoot thru. There is a covered firing line and there are two benches so sometimes there is a wait for your turn to shoot. You have 3 days to pick from (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) starting at 8AM till 5PM or so. It takes about 100 rounds to shoot and about an hour to finish which is on the high end. Open bolts and chamber flags are a must and no handling of guns once they are leaned into the rack. Donation will be $20.00/entry this year.
I still think that ammo is the main deciding factor and the best way to come up with some type of classes. I've seen incredible scores shot with 60 year old target guns and poor scores shot with $7500 custom rifles. This year I think I'm going to go to three (3) classes and the winner of each class will receive a free entry the next match. The twist will be if a lower class shooter wins their class with a higher score than the class winners above them then the higher winners won't get a free entry. Example: Class C winner shoots a 79 and the Class B winner shoots a 78 and the Class A winner shoots an 80. The class A and Class C winners receives a free entry but the Class B winner does not. An incentive to compete occasionally with lower cost ammo for the challenge and to do well.
The three (3) classes of ammo will be C: $6.00/50 and under, B: Over $6.01 to $14.00 and A: Over $14.01 This may change and I don't have a complete list made up which would be hard to list each ammo but will base this on prices normally found at the online shops and not a sale item. I've sure everyone knows about where their ammo falls, also anyone with a tuner may use it but will jump you into the A class automatically. No Benchrest style front or rear rests. Bipods (even Rempel style) sandbags or an attached monopod are OK. Any scope/rifle combo is allowed but if you show up with a BR style gun shooting in C class you may get a shifty eyed sideways glance wondering what's up with this.
I've played with most of them and Yes they most definately do have a much better group at farther distances. A Class B ammo could possible compete with them as long as their dropped round is not on a small target but that's the gamble you take with the mid-range priced ammo. The lowest class is for those that are starting out, can't find or haven't tested better ammo but still wish to compete which is why I do this in the first place. Don't feel you can't come have fun and be competitive, you'll be shooting with others with similiar equipment.
Nearly everyone that shoots with us will offer any help they can, most will gladly let you look at their gun, scope, bipod and bags and let you try them out. You don't have to have top end stuff to come shoot and have fun. Plenty of you have kidded me about some of the stuff Chris and I shoot. I'm also going to have the peep sight targets up at each distance which are 4moa which is about the smallest you can see in the varying light conditions. If a stage has gamble targets for the scoped competitors the peep targets will also have a very challenging gamble higher point value target they can shoot at. Keeps both scoped and metallic sight competitors on their toes. Yes they may look bigger a little farther out but up close they are smaller and only one so it gets shot up quickly. If you think it's easy let me know and I'll have a gun there for you to try. The Peep targets do get rough to see thru the mid-day due to light and shadows so keep that in mind. Early or late are better times for that.
[email protected]
Send an email for exact address for GPS, Near St. Clairsville Ohio
Topstrap
I still think that ammo is the main deciding factor and the best way to come up with some type of classes. I've seen incredible scores shot with 60 year old target guns and poor scores shot with $7500 custom rifles. This year I think I'm going to go to three (3) classes and the winner of each class will receive a free entry the next match. The twist will be if a lower class shooter wins their class with a higher score than the class winners above them then the higher winners won't get a free entry. Example: Class C winner shoots a 79 and the Class B winner shoots a 78 and the Class A winner shoots an 80. The class A and Class C winners receives a free entry but the Class B winner does not. An incentive to compete occasionally with lower cost ammo for the challenge and to do well.
The three (3) classes of ammo will be C: $6.00/50 and under, B: Over $6.01 to $14.00 and A: Over $14.01 This may change and I don't have a complete list made up which would be hard to list each ammo but will base this on prices normally found at the online shops and not a sale item. I've sure everyone knows about where their ammo falls, also anyone with a tuner may use it but will jump you into the A class automatically. No Benchrest style front or rear rests. Bipods (even Rempel style) sandbags or an attached monopod are OK. Any scope/rifle combo is allowed but if you show up with a BR style gun shooting in C class you may get a shifty eyed sideways glance wondering what's up with this.
I've played with most of them and Yes they most definately do have a much better group at farther distances. A Class B ammo could possible compete with them as long as their dropped round is not on a small target but that's the gamble you take with the mid-range priced ammo. The lowest class is for those that are starting out, can't find or haven't tested better ammo but still wish to compete which is why I do this in the first place. Don't feel you can't come have fun and be competitive, you'll be shooting with others with similiar equipment.
Nearly everyone that shoots with us will offer any help they can, most will gladly let you look at their gun, scope, bipod and bags and let you try them out. You don't have to have top end stuff to come shoot and have fun. Plenty of you have kidded me about some of the stuff Chris and I shoot. I'm also going to have the peep sight targets up at each distance which are 4moa which is about the smallest you can see in the varying light conditions. If a stage has gamble targets for the scoped competitors the peep targets will also have a very challenging gamble higher point value target they can shoot at. Keeps both scoped and metallic sight competitors on their toes. Yes they may look bigger a little farther out but up close they are smaller and only one so it gets shot up quickly. If you think it's easy let me know and I'll have a gun there for you to try. The Peep targets do get rough to see thru the mid-day due to light and shadows so keep that in mind. Early or late are better times for that.
[email protected]
Send an email for exact address for GPS, Near St. Clairsville Ohio
Topstrap
Ukraine war Bullshit.
- By nkk
- The Bear Pit
- 3875 Replies
Probably blowing up 34% of puccian strategic bomber fleet from a coffee shop in Kyiv 3+ years into a failed 3 day blyatzkrieg laughing at zigger lovers
Ukraine war Bullshit.
- By kthomas
- The Bear Pit
- 3875 Replies
When does Russia get to laugh?
I suppose only one man can do so.
Russia is poor on the floor begging NORKs for bodies and artillery shells and now they lost the last leg of their triad that actually works. If they press the button on their ground based nukes, many will detonate right in place as birds have long been nesting and squirrels fornicating in their silos.
Soviet submarines destroy themselves without Western intervention.
I always thought that you guys feel a kinship with Putin, as he is on-his-knees begging Iran for advanced weapons and begging the NORKs for not-advanced-weapons... it's not unlike you Commie Shitholes offering to suck dick for beer money outside of the 7-Eleven and then pulling out your Obamaphone to post that something is "gay" or "communist" in the Bear Pit.
Welcome to the next revolution in military affairs.
The superpowers are all trying to develop "attritable" platforms/ assets/ weapons without realizing that EVERYTHING is attributable on the battlefield.
Our own strategic geniuses already lost redacted (a great deal of MQ-9s) during our billion-dollar-month fighting the Yemenis on behalf of the J-state.
Now we see the Soviets have lost... probably every non-deadlined long-range bomber they've been keeping alive... in a matter of minutes.
The perpetrators in the first case? Skirt-wearing tribesman who carry daggers and simply said "LA" to the violent expansion of the J-state and continued victimization of the goyim.
In the latter? A small, poor European country that was already decimated by years of war on their own soil, and who had already been told by Trump, "You don't have the cards," right before he bent over and spread his cheeks for Putin.
This is the modern-day-equivalent of the highly trained French Knights being zeroed out by peasant English Longbowman at Agincourt.
