1984 by Orwell

It terrifies me. I read Animal Farm as well. I know where they plan to take us.

Also consider The Fountianhead. "Conformity makes one neck, for one leash. Today a lot of people have been promised they will get a hand on the leash. Most will awaken to the terror of the gulag before they ever get the sadistic satisfaction of tormenting us.

Yet I have a desperate hope that President Trump will prevail and save the Republic. Not only because the alternative is so terrible, but also because Rudy , Lynn Wood, and Sidney Powell say they have the goods to win in court. I've never heard any of them lie. The people who tell me Biden won have been lying their entire lives.

The language and writing is beautiful if scary.

You cant write to that level today and expect the people to understand it.

Might as well read up on "Logans Run" once Ezekiel Emmanuel is in charge of health care.

This is the mask I wear regularly:

Foul Mike said:

Ol George was made out to be a crackpot and a fool when he put this out in 1949. Nobody was buying into that bullshit.
I read it in 1964 in High School for a book report in an Eng. Lit. class and had much the same feelings as his previous critics. I thought,"No way bullshit like this can happen."

Have you read it? If not Wiki gives a TLDR cliff notes on it.

For you that have read it, what are your thoughts now and when did you read it?

I think he was a few decades off but we are getting there.

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Great book...one of the classics. Movie was really good as well.

He is or was prophetic in my opinion. Full control of the masses....I think they used cheap alcohol and porn to keep the poors happy.

Read the book in high school and found some odd similarities to what was current at the time . Mostly the euphemisms like Ministry of Peace or Department of Defense . Thought the book somewhat horrific and envisioned it as Soviet society . Even more horrified that we are at 1984 and the Sheep don't know it .

As a kid reading it, I thought: "no way we get to that place." Inconceivable.

Today, I am stunned it slid so far, so fast.

I believe they will keep testing the boundaries, even in plain sight. I pray we have Constitutional options to thwart that shit. But if that fails....

I hope I am not wrong in my "napkin math" and they unleash a can of scunion never before seen-on their own asses. And then they are unheard of for many centuries more than we've enjoyed to date. Everything here forward, no one has seen boys. I am always the optimist.

diverdon said:

It terrifies me. I read Animal Farm as well. I know where they plan to take us.

Also consider The Fountianhead. "Conformity makes one neck, for one leash. Today a lot of people have been promised they will get a hand on the leash. Most will awaken to the terror of the gulag before they ever get the sadistic satisfaction of tormenting us.

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Get over it. It's time you realize that some animals are more equal than others.

... I probably shouldn't joke.

Ayn Rand lived through it in Russia and didn't want the same thing to happen here. The left is trying to wipe out individualism through identity politics. Notice how everyone has to be lumped into some category.

Great book, it's interesting to think about how all those fears were there before social media took over communications.

I'm not really much of a fan of dystopia. Imagining ways your future might suck can be a healthy exercise, but as a genre it gets pretty bleak and sometimes looks like people fantasizing about their own oppression. Having such a big societal focus on dystopia probably isn't indicative of anything good.

I think it does a good job of highlighting the dangers of unquestioned and toxic institutions and conventions. Maybe you know that I know that you know it's all doublespeak and we can both parse the correct meaning, but the base unit of that is deception and deference to nonsense. Same with identity politics. Maybe I'm not meant to think of someone as a cripple and they're really just differently abled or whatever the language is, but sure as shit that cripple has different needs and it's totally reasonable to have different expectations of them. That's not a justification to be an asshole, it's acknowledging a way you can avoid being an asshole by engaging with reality.

Probably best for me not to get into the left/right divide here, but I don't think that's the right focus for understanding the book. You can get into a lot of the issues Orwell goes into without repping your political team, that's just another layer on the thing and not the thing itself.

giegs said:

Probably best for me not to get into the left/right divide here, but I don't think that's the right focus for understanding the book. You can get into a lot of the issues Orwell goes into without repping your political team, that's just another layer on the thing and not the thing itself.

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Left and right plays to their game IMO.

You cannot account for all the individual nuances and they wish to. It is simply impossible.

A broad brush will never account for unique experiences.

My thoughts: Fuck "them."

I actually believe Huxley was closer to what we are experiencing.

From "The Social Dilemma"
"What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us.

This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right."
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business

Huxley was capable of the greatest of insights

He said something once that I heard and I never forgot it

"Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men"

Never heard a more true statement

giegs said:

Great book, it's interesting to think about how all those fears were there before social media took over communications.

I'm not really much of a fan of dystopia. Imagining ways your future might suck can be a healthy exercise, but as a genre it gets pretty bleak and sometimes looks like people fantasizing about their own oppression. Having such a big societal focus on dystopia probably isn't indicative of anything good.

I think it does a good job of highlighting the dangers of unquestioned and toxic institutions and conventions. Maybe you know that I know that you know it's all doublespeak and we can both parse the correct meaning, but the base unit of that is deception and deference to nonsense. Same with identity politics. Maybe I'm not meant to think of someone as a cripple and they're really just differently abled or whatever the language is, but sure as shit that cripple has different needs and it's totally reasonable to have different expectations of them. That's not a justification to be an asshole, it's acknowledging a way you can avoid being an asshole by engaging with reality.

Probably best for me not to get into the left/right divide here, but I don't think that's the right focus for understanding the book. You can get into a lot of the issues Orwell goes into without repping your political team, that's just another layer on the thing and not the thing itself.

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Pop Culture mirrors life.

All those Godzilla movies coming from Japan reflected their being nuked and uncertainty of what effects radiation was going to have on them..

When Walking Dead became popular years ago it struck me as a reflection of what was going on in the country.

Lately pop culture has been so degraded that now it is just a form of "SOMA" from Brave New World.

We have dumbed down so many people pop culture no longer has a message because people wouldnt be able to pick up the subtleties.

When I was young they said we'd have flying cars and all kinds of futuristic cool stuff.
Information was supposed to create a better society. Here we are in 2020 and we can't get people to wash their hands. Never mind walking through Walmart and seeing the trash zombies walking around in their pajamas or less.

pmclaine said:

Pop Culture mirrors life.

All those Godzilla movies coming from Japan reflected their being nuked and uncertainty of what effects radiation was going to have on them..

When Walking Dead became popular years ago it struck me as a reflection of what was going on in the country.

Lately pop culture has been so degraded that now it is just a form of "SOMA" from Brave New World.

We have dumbed down so many people pop culture no longer has a message because people wouldnt be able to pick up the subtleties.

Click to expand...

Foul Mike said:

Ol George was made out to be a crackpot and a fool when he put this out in 1949. Nobody was buying into that bullshit.
I read it in 1964 in High School for a book report in an Eng. Lit. class and had much the same feelings as his previous critics. I thought,"No way bullshit like this can happen."

Have you read it? If not Wiki gives a TLDR cliff notes on it.

For you that have read it, what are your thoughts now and when did you read it?

I think he was a few decades off but we are getting there.

Click to expand...

Leave it to the Shamocrats to take a book that was supposed to be a warning and use it as a manual. They never read the Magna Carta, the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the U.S. Constitution, The Federalist papers, or the Anti-Federalist papers but they take an impossible, and authoritarian utopian ideology, and apply a mix of dystopian novels ("1984", "Brave New World", "Fahrenheit 451", "Colossus: The Forbin Project") that give the majority of humans on this planet the shudders and apply them as a manual to achieve their idiotic, and barbaric goals.

SonicBurlap said:

Leave it to the Shamocrats to take a book that was supposed to be a warning and use it as a manual. They never read the Magna Carta, the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the U.S. Constitution, The Federalist papers, or the Anti-Federalist papers but they take an impossible, and authoritarian utopian ideology, and apply a mix of dystopian novels ("1984", "Brave New World", "Fahrenheit 451", "Colossus: The Forbin Project") that give the majority of humans on this planet the shudders and apply them as a manual to achieve their idiotic, and barbaric goals.

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Do a quick read of Ayn Rand's: Anthem to see where our society is going to be headed.
Laugh now, but the Carbon Cult who are the darlings of the Elites want to make it happen.

W54/XM-388 said:

Do a quick read of Ayn Rand's: Anthem to see where our society is going to be headed.
Laugh now, but the Carbon Cult who are the darlings of the Elites want to make it happen.

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Anthem shows you where we are headed and Atlas Shrugged shows you how we get there.

Ayn Rand got a lot of things right about the authoritarian socialist agenda due to her exposure to the horrors of the Soviet system but I can't subscribe to her philosophy of "objectivism" either that declares the inherent heroic in man, only happiness as purpose, and reason as the only absolute. I tend to go with our founders who recognized that our rights originate from God, and that man is sinful by nature and therefore government run by man needs checks and balances like three separate but equal branches of government, and an electoral college to prevent the tyranny of a few populous cities over a large less populous country. Anyone who talks about right speech, and wrong speech (i.e. politically correct, or politically incorrect), freedom, but..., or who wants to eliminate checks and balances like the electoral college, or "stuffing SCOTUS" isn't following the Constitution, or upholding freedom. I don't need a dystopian novel review to show me that, history has repeated the same old horror play multiple times in the twentieth century. All because as the loons claimed "it just has never been done right, but this time...." Soviet Russia, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Occupied Eastern Europe, Cuba, Communist China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, ... over 130 million dead, how many more until someone realizes that authoritarianism/ communism is this planet's greatest mental disorder, and malignant disease process?

seansmd said:

I actually believe Huxley was closer to what we are experiencing.

From "The Social Dilemma"
"What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us.

This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right."
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business

Click to expand...

I've always thought we had a mix of 1984, and a brave new world, with hints of Rand sprinkled in. Much like it seems they (whoever "they" is for the individual) have picked pieces of the fascist and the communist systems with a sprinkle of monarchy to replace our republic, in my opinion.

giegs said:

Maybe I'm not meant to think of someone as a cripple and they're really just differently abled or whatever the language is, but sure as shit that cripple has different needs and it's totally reasonable to have different expectations of them. That's not a justification to be an asshole, it's acknowledging a way you can avoid being an asshole by engaging with reality.

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This is what most Americans (and other nationalities, just to be inclusive) get wrong. They claim the COTUS says we are all created equal. It doesn't but to carry the thought...we are definitely not created equal. Simply...some are born with 6 fingers on each hand. Some are born to be thin, others fat. Some brown some yellow, some white. Some intelligent, some not. Some destined for longevity while others will die of old age in their 30's. It is just fine (with me) to recognize these differences and to play upon each others strengths and to attempt to minimize the weaknesses.
Minimize is WAY different than to bow to the cancel culture or to create special legislation as protections.

I've always appreciated: 1984 was meant to be a warning - not an instructional manual.

Search for the Chinese Social Credit system.

diverdon said:

It terrifies me. I read Animal Farm as well. I know where they plan to take us.

Also consider The Fountianhead. "Conformity makes one neck, for one leash. Today a lot of people have been promised they will get a hand on the leash. Most will awaken to the terror of the gulag before they ever get the sadistic satisfaction of tormenting us.

Yet I have a desperate hope that President Trump will prevail and save the Republic. Not only because the alternative is so terrible, but also because Rudy , Lynn Wood, and Sidney Powell say they have the goods to win in court. I've never heard any of them lie. The people who tell me Biden won have been lying their entire lives.

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As do I. There is a high level of confidence that they will turn the table 180 degrees - giving a big wake up call to the radicals.

My concerns are for what happens afterwards. I don't even think that most on the left have thought about "losing" at this point. The *media certainly hasn't conditioned them for that scenario, and that shock will incite the worst in them.

seansmd said:

I actually believe Huxley was closer to what we are experiencing.

From "The Social Dilemma"
"What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us.

This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right."
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business

Click to expand...

You beat me to it... Man's greatest problem is pleasure, not pain.

In 1922 Orwell went to police in Burma; Huxley wrote short stories in England. In 1937 Orwell went to fight in Spain; Huxley went to work as a screenwriter in Los Angeles. You can kind of see how the one would fear those who would ban books, and the other would fear that no one would read. Maybe they're both right.

I remember in high-school discussing the book. Even back then in the late 80s when I said the systematic dumbing-down of America the teacher said I was being silly. When I gave her examples it kind of raised an eyebrow. There are a couple other kids in a class who the greed and had said that their parents and grandparents that said the same thing. The rest of the class, clueless.

The analogy of boiling a lobster in water is quite accurate.

for those with a smart phone- download your library app- and listen to the audio book

your tax dollars at work

Fahrenheit 451 is another one to listen to again

9th grade English Lit. teach made me do a book report on it in about 67/68. I was pissed, I didn't want to read that crap. In 1984 I laughed. By 2004 I was saying; ole George was a just bit early in his prediction , but nearly spot on in the prediction & gettin closer every 4 years.

I must have thought about it a 100 times since reading it , & especially a lot this year.

WTAF. A well-reasoned, insightful, philosophical discourse in the Bear Pit.
Shocked. Shocked, I tell ya.

1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are mandatory reading in my house, along with the founding documents and Federalist Papers.

Before most political conversations, especially on founding father's intent, I usually ask the other party how much time they've spent reading the FPs.

9/10 the answer prevents me from discussing the topic.