McCloskey's charges "Fixed"

Halfnutz · Jul 30, 2020

From the ISRA (Illinois State Rifle Association)-
"The saga of Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner’s treachery in prosecuting Mark and Patricia McCloskey has taken another turn. Apparently, the pistol Patricia McCloskey was holding was used in a previous court case and had been rendered inoperable so it could be brought into court. It, therefore, was not a weapon. Kim Gardner and her enterprising staff had the crime lab fix the gun so it was capable of being fired. This was done to bring charges against the McCloskeys."

From a news article (5 On Your Side)-
"Patricia McCloskey and her husband, Mark McCloskey, have said the handgun Patricia McCloskey waved at protesters was inoperable because they had used it as a prop during a lawsuit they once filed against a gun manufacturer. In order to bring it into a courtroom, they made it inoperable."

"Specifically, the firing pin spring was put in front of the firing pin, which was backward, and made the gun incapable of firing, according to documents obtained by 5 On Your Side."

"Firearms experts then put the gun back together in the correct order and test-fired it, finding that it worked, according to the documents."

Wondering what the details of the lawsuit against gun manufacturer were?
Does the reassembly constitute a tampering of evidence, will the documentation of disassembly/re assembly be presented?
Does any of it matter?

Sean the Nailer · Jul 30, 2020

Interested,

nso123 · Jul 30, 2020

Of even more interest to me is a crime lab that would alter evidence to make charges more viable. What other evidence have they "repaired" during the course of their examinations?

supercorndogs · Jul 30, 2020

If it went to them physically unable to fire a round, and now it can fire a round. It seems pretty cut and dry.

Halfnutz · Jul 30, 2020

I did not hotlink to the news article. The disassembly and reassembly were photographed or video taped.

I should have put that in more clearly than quoting the part about documenting.

Halfnutz · Jul 30, 2020

Regardless, if his AR was functional, the BS charge still may have merit against him.

Halfnutz · Jul 30, 2020

St. Louis prosecutor ordered crime lab to reassemble Patricia McCloskey's gun

Assistant Circuit Attorney Chris Hinckley stated in charging documents that the gun was "readily capable of lethal use"

www.ksdk.com

BullGear · Jul 30, 2020

There's so much dirt on so many people, it could turn really ugly if these things can be proven. However, it would have to go to the Federal level before anything will be done about this. I mean, who's going to prosecute their bed buddies???

BytorJr · Jul 30, 2020

Seems to me to be evidence tampering and depending on how the firearm/not-firearm was rendered a prop, couldn't it also come with a Federal crime somehow? At the very minimum she needs to be outed from her position and disbarred, then serve jail time in a maximum security prison and see how well her people skills are as do the personnel who also conspired.

LawnMM · Jul 30, 2020

It's irrelevant in terms of the charge against her whether the gun was actually functional at the time she waived it around.

Not saying she should be charged, just that the status of the weapon for brandishing or menacing charges is irrelevant.

If I point an empty gun at you and rob you at gunpoint I can't later say, 'see it was unloaded, I didn't rob anybody!'

oneshot86 · Jul 30, 2020

nso123 said:
Of even more interest to me is a crime lab that would alter evidence to make charges more viable. What other evidence have they "repaired" during the course of their examinations?

and of even more interest would be, how many other pieces of evidence have been tainted...
and we wonder why we are having problems

LawnMM · Jul 30, 2020

I'm not local so I hadn't seen the actual charge.

I think this is the section they probably hit them with

"(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or"

The section you quoted talks about carrying it into areas where it's illegal, certainly legal on your own property.

It'll come down to the judges interpretation of "readily capable of lethal use" and whose perspective you judge that from.

... · Jul 30, 2020

if its not permanently altered to be "inert" according to ATF guidelines....then its still legally a firearm.....and shouldnt effect any firearms charges.

i can pull the firing pin on my rifle....its still legally a rifle.....and any crimes i commit with that rifle are going to be treated the same as if the gun had a firing pin.

all that being said, there is a strong case for getting any evidence involving that gun to be inadmissible because the evidence was tampered with.

BytorJr · Jul 30, 2020

LawnMM said:
It's irrelevant in terms of the charge against her whether the gun was actually functional at the time she waived it around.

Not saying she should be charged, just that the status of the weapon for brandishing or menacing charges is irrelevant.

If I point an empty gun at you and rob you at gunpoint I can't later say, 'see it was unloaded, I didn't rob anybody!'

No disagreement; but that's not an excuse for tampering with the evidence to make it into something it was not when the said crime took place. This is exactly how come OJ got off - just the illusion of tampering. This was full fledged tampering. For all we know, they're in cohoots.

Fig · Jul 30, 2020

Kim Gardener is a CRIMINAL Prosecutor, i.e. a Criminal.

LawnMM · Jul 30, 2020

thestoicmarcusaurelius said:
“Readily capable” is an objective standard not a subjective standard so it should not be interpreted from any “perspective” other than was it “readily capable of lethal use”. Now, if there was an element of the statute along the lines of causing fear then that could be a subjective standard based on how a reasonable person would feel being subjected to similar conduct but that’s not what they were charged with at this time if I’m remembering correctly.

Putting a lot of faith in liberal prosecutors and judges to embrace the spirit, rather than the letter, of the law.

I see a lot of people getting charged with shit that was never intended for their situation just because technically it fits the definition or can be bent a bit to fit better.

Slash0311 · Jul 30, 2020

It will all come down to the courts and judges in all the many appeals. ETA: or not if charges are dropped as the new link was added while I was typing.

Im not so quick to jump on the "tampering with evidence" bandwagon BECAUSE they will have to explain, in court why the did what they did.

For example, If a computer is busted (by a bad guy) but the harddrive intact, removed, and child porn is found, is that tampering?

As with many cases, those are the pieces the judges will have to evaluate. On the face, it looks bad and defense could make a damn good case for tossing the handgun as evidence. Also, you have to consider the chain of evidence. How long was the gun not in the DAs hands after the original incident? Could that spring have been changed moments after the incident but before the gun was confiscated by search warrant? (I can't remember if thats the gun their attorney had possession of)

Certainly will be interesting to watch unfold.

Mr.BR · Jul 30, 2020

We already had this

STL McCloskeys served with search warrant

State AG filed a brief to dismiss all charges. https://www.foxnews.com/us/missouri-ag-moves-to-dismiss-charges-against-couple-who-pointed-guns-at-crowd The entire case needs to be dismissed with prejudice.

www.snipershide.com

fdkay · Jul 30, 2020

Halfnutz said:
From the ISRA (Illinois State Rifle Association)-
"The saga of Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner’s treachery in prosecuting Mark and Patricia McCloskey has taken another turn. Apparently, the pistol Patricia McCloskey was holding was used in a previous court case and had been rendered inoperable so it could be brought into court. It, therefore, was not a weapon. Kim Gardner and her enterprising staff had the crime lab fix the gun so it was capable of being fired. This was done to bring charges against the McCloskeys."

From a news article (5 On Your Side)-
"Patricia McCloskey and her husband, Mark McCloskey, have said the handgun Patricia McCloskey waved at protesters was inoperable because they had used it as a prop during a lawsuit they once filed against a gun manufacturer. In order to bring it into a courtroom, they made it inoperable."

"Specifically, the firing pin spring was put in front of the firing pin, which was backward, and made the gun incapable of firing, according to documents obtained by 5 On Your Side."

"Firearms experts then put the gun back together in the correct order and test-fired it, finding that it worked, according to the documents."

Wondering what the details of the lawsuit against gun manufacturer were?
Does the reassembly constitute a tampering of evidence, will the documentation of disassembly/re assembly be presented?
Does any of it matter?

The crime lab specifically noted WHO directed them to alter the gun, when they did it and the results.
The lab did not try to hide the fact that it was done.

BullGear · Jul 30, 2020

It would appear the DA has taken a few trips in the recent past and those trips have been paid for by an anti-gun PAC or some other type of organization. She is being investigated for that too.

... · Jul 30, 2020

Slash0311 said:
It will all come down to the courts and judges in all the many appeals. ETA: or not if charges are dropped as the new link was added while I was typing.

Im not so quick to jump on the "tampering with evidence" bandwagon BECAUSE they will have to explain, in court why the did what they did.

For example, If a computer is busted (by a bad guy) but the harddrive intact, removed, and child porn is found, is that tampering?

As with many cases, those are the pieces the judges will have to evaluate. On the face, it looks bad and defense could make a damn good case for tossing the handgun as evidence. Also, you have to consider the chain of evidence. How long was the gun not in the DAs hands after the original incident? Could that spring have been changed moments after the incident but before the gun was confiscated by search warrant? (I can't remember if thats the gun their attorney had possession of)

Certainly will be interesting to watch unfold.

thats collecting evidence.

however.....if im accused of using my car to dump a body....and police impound my car, only to find it doesnt run.....and they fix my car so it now runs......that can be construed as "tampering with evidence".

what the defendant did with it before it was collected by police is immaterial, they cant know for certain, and they arent allowed to make guesses as to the state of the weapon and repair it back to the state they want it to be.

ZiaHunter · Jul 30, 2020

Depends on the intent. If the intent was to enter into evidence as being operable under the statute then the prosecutors committed misconduct and should be punished. In any event since it was altered in custody it will most likely be in-admissible as evidence in court. The fruit of the poisonous tree.

Blue Sky Country · Jul 30, 2020

nso123 said:
Of even more interest to me is a crime lab that would alter evidence to make charges more viable. What other evidence have they "repaired" during the course of their examinations?

And now, think about the COVID numbers...

MosesTheTank · Jul 30, 2020

Halfnutz said:
Regardless, if his AR was functional, the BS charge still may have merit against him.

It does not have merit with respect to the AR or the pistol. It is a private road, the gate to that road was breached, they were on their property, and MO has a castle doctrine that is written sufficiently well. That that sack of shit ADA lied and said the pistol was capable of being fired at the time of the incident is fucking abhorrent, but probably moot to the proceedings.

Here's a funny read:
Melanin Deficient McCloskeys

Halfnutz · Jul 31, 2020

MosesTheTank said:
It does not have merit with respect to the AR or the pistol. It is a private road, the gate to that road was breached, they were on their property, and MO has a castle doctrine that is written sufficiently well. That that sack of shit ADA lied and said the pistol was capable of being fired at the time of the incident is fucking abhorrent, but probably moot to the proceedings.

Here's a funny read:
Melanin Deficient McCloskeys

Totally agree. I should have typed BULLSHIT instead of "BS".

FS1 · Jul 31, 2020

Shit, you guys still think Justice is about Justice?

seanh · Jul 31, 2020

This whole thing is about setting a precedence. That presidents being that you don't have a right to protect your property from any type of threat

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