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Suppressors Online NFA trusts? One any better than another? - Help!!

pell1203

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Full Member
Minuteman
  • Dec 27, 2007
    1,443
    471
    Bellevue, WA
    Help!!! I've been looking at various online NFA trusts and they all seem to claim pretty much the same features as each other but vary in price from under $59 to upwards of $300. Of course, none of them will actually show you the product until after you actually buy it, which I understand given the nature of the product they are selling. Some at least advertise a "satisfaction guarantee" for 30 days or so.

    Short of simply taking a chance, I thought I'd ask other members here for additional guidance. Are these trusts mostly the same or are there great differences between them? Any reviews or further insight that can be provided by others previously down this path would be greatly appreciated. Some examples and current cost of various offerings are linked below:

    National Gun Trusts - $59.95 + additional 10% off promotion code - https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/

    Gun Trust Depot - $79.99 + additional discount promo code avail. - https://www.guntrustdepot.com/

    199trust - $79.00 - http://199trust.com/

    NFA Lawyers LLC - $99.00 - https://nfalawyers.com/

    Gun Trust Guru - $129.95 - https://www.guntrustguru.com/

    Any comments, insights, experiences or recommendations you might offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
     
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    Reactions: EazyRhino
    I used NFA Lawyers LLC for my trust and had zero issues using it to purchase my suppressor. I recommended them to a friend who has used his to buy two suppressors and build an SBR. He also has had no issues. I can't tell you if it's better or worse than the others you've listed, but it was reasonably priced, super fast and works.
     
    If you go to Rocket Lawyer, you can get free boiler plate trusts for your state. It makes it pretty easy to do a little home work and make your own.
     
    Looks like NFA Lawyers is the crowd favorite so far. Anybody use any of the other vendors, particularly the cheaper ones?

    supercorndogs, I took a look at Rocket Lawyer but am a bit hesitant of going with a generic trust document that has not been specifically tailored to meet NFA purposes. Arguing with the BATFE is something I'd like to avoid if at all possible. :eek: ;) :cool:
     
    Trusts aren't made to specific NFA requirements. Trusts are made to state requirements. I.E what it takes to form a legal trust in your state. Everything else is just amendments, that can be changed by the executor. If you want to pay for one rather than doing some research that is your prerogative. The BATFE is not the one you would argue with anyway. They don't check trusts for legality.

    http://www.keytlaw.com/arizonawills/do-it-yourself-gun-trust-mistakes/
     
    I use and alot of my customers have used gun trust depot. Zero issues so far with around 100 applications. Code 67mgr662 gives you 20 percent off as well. It seems that most of the online trust companies have been working fine. I sell alot of cans with all different types of trusts, and have not seen one get denied yet. If I were buying high end investment, like machine guns, I would definitely have my lawyer look at any of them to make sure all bases are covered
     
    NFA Lawyers LLC. Once ordered the trust arrived w/ in a few days. I called their office line to ask a question pertaining to my trust & left a message. I got up to use the head immediately afterwards. My wife tells me "NFA Lawyers called for you."

    I paid $100, quick & painless.
     
    I used the one from Capilol Armory, I believe Jim Willi designed theres. He is a big gun trust lawyer in Texas which is where I am located. I do not have any trustees on mine because of the post 41f guidelines, but I can add or remove trustees as needed if I ever want to with the documents provided with the trust.
     
    Based on the advice of a very knowledgeable Hide member, I used Rod Woodard [[email protected]]. The way he has written the trust, it is applicable to any state (good, since I have moved) and trustees can be added and removed at will, without any extra paperwork. This means that I can add someone as a trustee Wednesday morning so they can shoot my sub-gun as much as they want, and remove them Wednesday evening. There are some other benefits to Rod's setup. I moved four items into it with no problems. $300 and I have complete peace of mind.

    Richard
     
    I used 199 for my cans. Quick and painless. They even took the initiative to send me additional forms to cover the 41f changes at no cost, even though my trust was created several years prior.
     
    Thanks for all the comments and suggestions above. I do have a couple of questions though as I muddle through the legalese.

    1. For instance, once a trust has been created and an item successfully added, some trusts provide an amendment form that may be filled out by the settlor/trustee to have multiple responsible persons suspended from the trust while a purchase for a second NFA item is pending. The amendment is written to become void once the NFA item is approved and thereby reinstates all prior trustees active when the amendment was first created. I realize this is done so only the settlor trustee is required to send in fingerprints and/or photographs for the second item. While this would seem to be workable for a first item, wouldn't this course of action prohibit use/posession of any prior items in the trust for all other trustees during the long wait for ATF approval of the second/pending item? Seems like this would be completely contrary to the purposes of having the trust in the first place!

    2. Would a One Shot Trust (only one item may be held in the trust) be a simpler solution? On the Silencer Shop web site they state that only one person is needed to purchase the item and create the trust. Hence, one set of fingerprints and photograph. They state other responsible persons can then be added to the trust once the item has been approved without them having to provide fingerprints or photo. Has anyone acquired an item via a One Shot trust that can confirm this or explain the process a bit better?

    I will try contacting Silencer Shop tomorrow to ask for details on their One Shot trust and will post back results if not already clarified.
     
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    Hmm...I set up my own trust with a Word doc and had it notarized :) didn't pay a cent! Lol
     
    I have had great success using an nfalawers.com trust. The atf cashed my the check for my third on 6/8. I am confident the amendment they provided will work without issue with the 41f rules.
     
    Promised to report back... called Silencer Shop again to talk to someone regarding questions about their Single Shot Trust. Here is my understanding of how it works:

    The Silencer Shop Single Shot trust allows you to set up the trust with only "you" as the designated Settlor/Grantor and sole Trustee. A Beneficiary may also be designated at trust creation but is not considered a "responsible person" if only filling the Beneficiary role. This leaves "you" as the singular "responsible person" required to send in fingerprints and photographs at time of suppresor purchase/trust creation.

    Additionally. using a Silencer Shop "Powered By" dealer allows you to use on-line tools to provide fingerprints and upload photograph using a kiosk at your local dealer. Once prepared, the Single Shot trust is sent to you to be digitally signed (notarization is not required) and sent back to Silencer Shop to file the completed application.

    Once the NFA item has been approved, "you" as Settlor/Grantor may add additional Trustees (form provided by SS to do this). Trustees may be added and removed from the trust at any time after approval and new trustees are not required to provide fingerprints, photos, <<< or have any forms notarized. >>>
    Edited to add: Once I received my Silencer Shop Single Trust documents I was able to confirm no fingerprints or photos are required to be filed to add/remove trustees. However, the settlor/grantor must complete, and have notarized, forms to either add new trustees or remove existing trustees. Additionally, any newly appointed or exiting trustees must also fill out, and have notarized, the corresponding form stating they accept being added or removed from the trust. These forms, completed as a pair, must be kept with the trust documents and become part of the paperwork that must be in possession of any designated individual responsible for the NFA item.

    As the name implies, this type of trust can only ever hold the one singular item for which the trust was created.

    At $25 it seems like a reasonable and simple solution for someone considering a single item.

    Hopefully this information is useful to those considering buying their first suppressor.
     
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    Form 4 using NFALawyers.com trust REJECTED.

    Resurrection time. So, I obtained a Trust from NFALawyers.com back in December of last year. I followed their instructions to the letter, including their amendment to make me the sole trustee. I submitted a single RP questionnaire, photo and prints. After 375 days I received a call from the dealer telling me that they received my Form 4 back from the ATF. The examiner "X"d out the sole trustee amendment and demanded that the other people (just my wife) listed on the original Trust paperwork submit a RP questionnaire / photo and prints.

    Thanks NFALawyers!. Their website says that their 'Sole Trustee' amendment is "ATF approved", well, not so much.
    SUCKS
     
    Didn't read a goddamn thing on this thread, but I have fucking golden advice:

    Go to an NFA lawyer.

    ATF will sign off on false trusts, it's not their responsibility to get it done right. If you ever end up in court, ONE fucking missing name, letter, etc. in the right place can render it invalid. That'll mean you'll be in possession of x number of illegal NFA items, each with it's own penalty unless lucky. Oh, and if this happens, it'll cost a LOT fucking more than any trust will.

    The lawyer has also been handy for questions and shit, they'll look it up and get back to me. No cost. I'm not at the mercy of some know it all internet asshole. Are you?
     
    Form 4 using NFALawyers.com trust REJECTED.

    Resurrection time. So, I obtained a Trust from NFALawyers.com back in December of last year. I followed their instructions to the letter, including their amendment to make me the sole trustee. I submitted a single RP questionnaire, photo and prints. After 375 days I received a call from the dealer telling me that they received my Form 4 back from the ATF. The examiner "X"d out the sole trustee amendment and demanded that the other people (just my wife) listed on the original Trust paperwork submit a RP questionnaire / photo and prints.

    Thanks NFALawyers!. Their website says that their 'Sole Trustee' amendment is "ATF approved", well, not so much.
    SUCKS

    i have done the sole trustee amendment twice post 41f and have been approved both times. After submitting I just throw it away and go back to the original trustees.

     
    I used the - National Gun Trusts - $59.95 https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/ - gun trust from this thread. I had a great experience. I got my trust the same day and submitted my ATF Form 4 a day or so later. Had to get my fingerprint cards and photo cards. But they were great. I would recommend them to others.
     
    gunTrustdepot .com has always worked well for myself and my customers. use promo code 67mgr662 for 20 percent off.