Rifle Scopes Precision rifle poors scope struggles.

This is why I’ve not looked through Kahles/S&B/Swaro yet.

I’ll throw out Rule #2 - actions. I started with rough milsurp Mauser, then Savage, and have handled plenty of other entry level bolt guns. Then Tikka and Steyr. Quality is much more obvious after handling budget designs.

I was happy with a leupold rifleman on my deer rifle until I looked through a mark4 then a nightforce and now I have a Schmidt bender on my deer rifle, eotech vudu on my 308, and an athlon cronus on my 22. It's a difficult journey but it sounds like you're further along than I am since you got hold of a ZCO to look through

Steel head said:

I’m still really happy with my Cronus.
I’m even happy with my old Horus falcon.

As I type this I’m putting on lipstick, getting pretty and about to sell my body on the boulevard.

72 hand jobs to go as long as I don’t get busted.

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If.....when you get busted, just tell ‘em why, they’ll understand.

Steel head said:

Rule #1-don’t look through scopes you can’t afford.

I broke that rule today.

I finally got to look through a ZCO.

Ummm yeah, 20 seconds behind it showed me want I want one.
Really nice glass.
Mirage shimmer, color and clarity at about 1200 yards was stunning

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How much better was the ZCO compared to the Cronus?

In terms of expensive scopes I have gotten behind - Razor AMG, NF ATACR 7-35 and the Cronus at least in terms of brightness and clarity holds up really well if not better. The other things like Eye Box, Mirage, etc I don't know as I didn't test.

Steel head said:

Rule #1-don’t look through scopes you can’t afford.

I broke that rule today.

I finally got to look through a ZCO.

Ummm yeah, 20 seconds behind it showed me want I want one.
Really nice glass.
Mirage shimmer, color and clarity at about 1200 yards was stunning

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I tried explaining this to someone they kept saying expensive scopes werent worth the money. There scopes were great and they shot far. All I could say was believe what you want but never look through a higher end scope.

I dont have high end scopes but was pretty excited when I got my PST Gen 2. Now 2 years later I hate every single scope in my safe. Even the old trusty SWFA SS 3-15.. now I'm over here eyeballing an MK5 and moving the PST to the .223 ha

Steel head said:

I’ve never felt the my Cronus lost much at all to the razor and ATACR’s my friends have.

Eye box on the ZCO was excellent, it has a weirdly wide image as well.
Definitely seemed a bit brighter,colors were definitely better.
Cronus colors are kinda bland
Clarity reminds me of a Kowa 883 prominar.
It really was a beautiful image.
Reticle was perfect thickness, not to thin.

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Thanks. That's good to know. I've only have been looking at "1 step" higher, which puts me into the ATACR price range ~2700ish. But it seems just go over the hump to 3600 for a ZCO.

I just picked up the Tract 4.5-30x56. I'll be running it tomorrow for NRL22X and then watching the JC Steel Challenge on Saturday to check out other scopes. I'll be curious how it compares out looking at 88 degree weather with 10-15mph winds. Will have a good deal of mirage this weekend.

Steel head said:

I’ve never felt the my Cronus lost much at all to the razor and ATACR’s my friends have.

Eye box on the ZCO was excellent, it has a weirdly wide image as well.
Definitely seemed a bit brighter,colors were definitely better.
Cronus colors are kinda bland
Clarity reminds me of a Kowa 883 prominar.
It really was a beautiful image.
Reticle was perfect thickness, not to thin.

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Just stop

littlepod said:

Thanks. That's good to know. I've only have been looking at "1 step" higher, which puts me into the ATACR price range ~2700ish. But it seems just go over the hump to 3600 for a ZCO.

I just picked up the Tract 4.5-30x56. I'll be running it tomorrow for NRL22X and then watching the JC Steel Challenge on Saturday to check out other scopes. I'll be curious how it compares out looking at 88 degree weather with 10-15mph winds. Will have a good deal of mirage this weekend.

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so you know I picked up a demo zco 4-20 with a qd spuhr mount for $3000 from mile high. if you keep you eye out they pop up pretty close to your price range from time to time.

the bushnell tactical line, is bang for the buck a good deal. dead on turrets , good not great optics
, but a well thought out optic that performs.

idahoorion

I own a kahles but the zco is unbelievable

Anyone Remember when you'd pull your -06 out with a simmons whitetail classic crested at the top and everyone smiled in approval of your good choice on a quality optic? Your confidence level was on top of your game that you'd make the next hit now that you've upgraded? Then 2001 hit...
We're in some kind of golden age now with so many quality options. If I went back in time and mounted a ZCO on one of my rifles from that time my shooting position would be compromised from the trouser tripod just by looking through the scope.

Ok fine I'll buy one and blame the misses on that now too.

Steel head said:

I’m still really happy with my Cronus.
I’m even happy with my old Horus falcon.

As I type this I’m putting on lipstick, getting pretty and about to sell my body on the boulevard.

72 hand jobs to go as long as I don’t get busted.

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Don’t be crowdin my area, the pimp hands is strong

I buy all of my optics Used. I bought a Steiner Military 3-12x50 used off the PX foums here. For about half the cost of a new scope I got a quality optic with a warrenty. After looking through a ZCO I can tell those scopes will hold their value for a while.

Well, I haven’t looked through one yet and am going to pretend that you didn’t just try to burst my little safe space bubble with your nonsensical blather. I’m just fine over here. I can’t HEAR you! LALALALALA!!

I felt that way with tangent. I had peeked through one before and said yeah that’s fine. But once I actually sat down for more than 5 seconds and actually looked it through it was pretty upsetting.
I’ll never buy it, more than content with my cronus when compared to everything else I’ve ever looked at and weighed the value and had been before. But that tangent is the light at the end of the tunnel.

I must be the odd duck as I've looked thru a Premiere and S&B but I'm stilly happy with my DMR II and Gen II Razor.

There's now way I would ever spend what ZCO charges on a scope. I'll happily spend it on a rifle as they retain value fairly well, however, scopes lose value like crazy and become outdated quickly too.

I'm not poor, however, I also can't justify the cost of these ultra expensive scopes.

A year ago I thought a vortex viper hs 6.5-20 was the clearest glass ever. Couldn’t understand why people spent 3k plus on NF, SB, Kahles, etc. My buddy took me out shooting and he had a SB ultra short on his ar-10 and a NF 7-35 on his Annie. It was amazing the difference between a 500 dollar scope and the tier one glass.

January I bought my first SB 5-25, March I looked through a ZCO and TT at my local rimfire match. Needless to say I sold my first SB to fund the ZCO 5-27 I have on my Vudoo and have one SB left that may hit the chopping block for another 5-27 so my Impact doesn’t feel left out.

Years ago I had a Hawke that I just thought was outstanding in the optics department. Took it prairie dog hunting and at the end of the trip I had so much eye fatigue from trying to focus through that glass.

If you don't look through the budget optic for a sustained period of time, you may not notice a lower quality glass. You can also usually get better resolution at any price point by sticking with lower magnifications.

It's easy for people to say the higher end glass isn't worth the money, especially if they only occasionally shoot and do so in shorter sessions. The top tier optics are after all only marginally better than 2nd tier at 50-100% or more money. Also, if you've never looked through top tier glass out in the field- it's very hard to tell a difference in glass quality indoors and at shorter ranges, especially if you're just holding the scope in your hands.

If you've ever spent a shooting session looking through low to mid quality glass, trying to pick up small targets at extended ranges, and then picked up a top tier optic at the end of that session, usually you'll notice the difference, sometimes dramatically. The importance of the higher quality optic is not just how it looks at a glance, but how your eye feels after using for an extended period of time.

Having a ZCO has ruined me for other scopes (except maybe a TT).

Perfect statement hard to go backwards on glass.

I bought my first S&B in 92. I will always have at least 1 top tier piece of glass. This scope came on a 416 rigby we had sold to a guy. He broke his nose first shot and couldn't pull the trigger without a massive flinch. This was a custom Mauser with pretty wood wood and some engraving. I had a 375H&H with a 2.5x fixed Leo . We went to the range and he traded for it. I sold the gun 2 weeks later but kept the glass and have been trading them for the latest versions ever since. Currently, have 3x12 8541 and a plain 5x25pmII. I don't shoot enough to need an upgrade at this time but if I did the 5x25 goes first the 3x12 I don't think will go before I do.

I didn’t think I’d need a fancy optic or would particularly appreciate one enough to really notice the difference. Then I peeked through a zco. A week later this happened. These things are really head and shoulders above the typical Kahles, NF, S&B, Razor, etc. to my eyes. I don’t know that I shoot any better but it sure is nice to look through.

Welcome to the dark side @Steel head ....I got a few dresses you can borrow. I got a little black dress that cut a month off my wait time for my ZCO. My eyes are happy...even if my poop shute is still sore.

I've had a few friends look through my scope recently...I can see the pain in their face after they pull back....and ask 'How much?'....and I can immediately see sadness....they will never be happy again until they obtain the ZCO.

Hunting is where I notice it the most, at the end of a long day when the sun's going down and everyone else is headed back home, I've still got 15 minutes of hunting with my s&b

Steel head said:

For what you can get them for the Cronus is a lot of value.
Im really happy with mine.

After a night of fighting off hookers from my corner and pimp wanting to hustle my ass I’m somewhat discouraged.
This year it will be another rifle in possibly 37XC or a ZCO.

Or if the stars align maybe both.

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*cough* ZCO *cough cough*

Don’t get one unless you plan on getting more
First scope was a Minox zp5 and decided to get a razor gen 2 for my other rifle due to all the fanboys. Wasn’t very impressed with it, now I’m gonna gamble on something else to fill the void

Good glass is such a "law of diminishing returns" thing the more you spend. From the many, many cheap to not so cheap scopes I've gone through, I'd say the sweet spot is in the $1500ish price point. Of course, twas I in a different tax bracket, I might say differently.

That said, you can get really good scopes for$5-700 as well. especially if you buy second hand.

Steel head said:

Rule #1-don’t look through scopes you can’t afford.

I broke that rule today.

I finally got to look through a ZCO.

Ummm yeah, 20 seconds behind it showed me want I want one.
Really nice glass.
Mirage shimmer, color and clarity at about 1200 yards was stunning

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With this promotion through the end of the month, it makes it even tougher...

Awag1000 said:

I buy all of my optics Used. I bought a Steiner Military 3-12x50 used off the PX foums here. For about half the cost of a new scope I got a quality optic with a warrenty. After looking through a ZCO I can tell those scopes will hold their value for a while.

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Not really they no longer make parts for them so if you have a serious issue they will replace it with of of the inferior t5x scopes that nobody ones. Another SH dude was talking about it yesterday.

CrabsandFootball said:

Not really they no longer make parts for them so if you have a serious issue they will replace it with of of the inferior t5x scopes that nobody ones. Another SH dude was talking about it yesterday.

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For real? that sucks. I really like this scope. I may have to find a second one or a similar scope as a replacement in case this one breaks.

Awag1000 said:

For real? that sucks. I really like this scope. I may have to find a second one or a similar scope as a replacement in case this one breaks.

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A good replacement would be a ZCO 4-20 lol

Krob95 said:

A good replacement would be a ZCO 4-20 lol

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if i can find a Used ZCO for a decent price ill jump on it.

Awag1000 said:

if i can find a Used ZCO for a decent price ill jump on it.

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There’s a couple for sale on the PX. The 4-20 on there, I was gonna pick up but I need a tripod more for a match tomorrow.

Idk if my eyesight cannot notice or appreciate the better glass out there, but sometimes I look through alpha glass and ask myself why people pay north of 3k for it.

I currently own:

Minox ZP5
Tango 6 second gen
LRTS
LRHS

I know when I see mediocre glass, that's pretty much any sub $1000 scope, usable but..... Man I really like my Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27's "except for the glass" - if these were just one step up in glass quality??!!
The $1500-$2000 scopes are decent, I'm okay with them.
Then I compare my S&B's to ^^^^ and nope I'm not selling the 5-25 PM2's, plenty of smiles have come forth.
ZCO and TT to my eyes are superior to ^^^^ but not by much. Being that I'm a poor right now in life I'll have to be happy with what I have.
Maybe next inheritance ....

Steel head said:

For what you can get them for the Cronus is a lot of value.
Im really happy with mine.

After a night of fighting off hookers from my corner and pimp wanting to hustle my ass I’m somewhat discouraged.
This year it will be another rifle in possibly 37XC or a ZCO.

Or if the stars align maybe both.

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You’re really taking the ‘Zero Compromise’ to another level!

good glass is an addiction not much different than the quest for the perfect rifle. Ive got a TT 5-25, a ZCO 4-20, a SB PMII 3-20. also got a us optics b-17 which I like but isnt in the same class as the other 3.
Ill be honest, of the top 3 I have a hard time picking which one I like the most. They are all awesome. Maybe with more use ill form more of an opinion of whats my favorite.
as someone whos owned quite a few varieties of glass.
you get what you pay for.

Went to my first national level match today with shooters across the US coming in to shoot at for NRL22X out to 400 yards. I was running my new Tract 4.5-30x56 dialing from 0 mils to 20.4 mils for the 400 yarder which I landed hits on. I also met up with the folks doing the MDT Steel Challenge who had a TT, ZCO, NF 7-35 so I didn't do side by side comparisons but I did get behind the glass. ZCO is great. They're so easy to get behind.

I don't think any higher end glass would've scored me any more hits today, so I'll stick with my glass until I learn to shoot better

The Ares BTR 4.5-27 which I also own, I would consider I outgrew that one. There were definitely many times the glass just wouldn't resolve with enough clarity on some targets on overcast grimy days. Grey steel, grey background, grey sky. But going up to the Ares ETR/Cronus, it holds its own against the Gen II Razor's and NF. I'd say the jump to ZCO would be the only jump I'd consider.

littlepod said:

Went to my first national level match today with shooters across the US coming in to shoot at for NRL22X out to 400 yards. I was running my new Tract 4.5-30x56 dialing from 0 mils to 20.4 mils for the 400 yarder which I landed hits on. I also met up with the folks doing the MDT Steel Challenge who had a TT, ZCO, NF 7-35 so I didn't do side by side comparisons but I did get behind the glass. ZCO is great. They're so easy to get behind.

I don't think any higher end glass would've scored me any more hits today, so I'll stick with my glass until I learn to shoot better

The Ares BTR 4.5-27 which I also own, I would consider I outgrew that one. There were definitely many times the glass just wouldn't resolve with enough clarity on some targets on overcast grimy days. Grey steel, grey background, grey sky. But going up to the Ares ETR/Cronus, it holds its own against the Gen II Razor's and NF. I'd say the jump to ZCO would be the only jump I'd consider.

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As a guy wanting a crossover hunting/target scope that's easy to get behind like the Razor gen II but without the weight and has a larger fov/low power than the AMG, I wish you'd never said that. The ZCO 420 seems to check all the right boxes for me on paper. People only need one kidney to survive right?

I got the original Cronus 4.5-29x56 from Cabela’s when they were getting discontinued for the newer BTRs and I’d say for 900$ it’s the best value I’ve ever got for glass, just wish it had locking windage turret and a center dot reticle.

The ZCO 5-27 gets compared to the TT......the ZCO 4-20 has no peer in its class. I have the 5-27 and really enjoy it.

Northernjets said:

As a guy wanting a crossover hunting/target scope that's easy to get behind like the Razor gen II but without the weight and has a larger fov/low power than the AMG, I wish you'd never said that. The ZCO 420 seems to check all the right boxes for me on paper. People only need one kidney to survive right?

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ZCO Would be perfect match for my DTA Covert. But I could get a March 3-24x52 for so much cheaper ...