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Rifle Scopes SWFA 5-20HD 9 yrs later. Is NF 5-25ATACR really needed?

Datsrboi

Datsrboi

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Minuteman
Oct 15, 2011
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DFW,TX USA
I tried asking this in many places but its hard to get a true answer as most people have no experience with SWFA. Those who do did not have them long nor have much feedback. Because of that I am going back to the place that made it as strong gas it did. Please forgive me as I am always trying to understand and learn.

I brought my SWFA 5-20x Optic 9 years ago from this forum alone. At the time I was a new shooter and for the price and the awesome high review I jumped the gun. I was fortunate that SWFA is located here where I live so i picked it up personally. 9 hard years and maybe 8-10k rounds through 308/6.5 creedmoor and the scope has never miss a beat. Its been dependable and very very clear. It does lack in some luxury features but it never failed me.

That said moving forward 9 years later and actually now shooting past 1000 yards and doing a few local match I started taking a look at higher end optics just out of curiosity. Particular the Nightforce ATACR C546 5-20x. I was given a chance to buy one but for the life out of me I barely see any difference in clarity. I am pretty sure it will track awesome but my SWFA has too. Given I wasnt given a lot of time behind the nightforce other than what I see in stores can someone point out to me what I would get if I get out of a 1400 dollar SWFA into something almost double the price? (I am actually getting it for way cheaper but stores sell them for almost 3 grand)

Tomorrow is my chance to buy it and just want peoples opinion on if its really that much better? I shoot bolt action a lot and do local matches and want to take it past 1000-1700 yards.
 

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Do you shoot competitive? If not. Think how much ammo you could buy with the money. I still feel, 9 years later, the 5-20HD SWFA is still an excellent scope.

Could it use a better reticle and a zero stop? Sure. But if you’re not shooting timed events. Who cares. No it’s not sexy or the latest. But those who truly know SWFA know it’s value.

If it were me. I’d keep it and buy more ammo. Or another gun.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with a new NightForce if you can swing it.
 
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It really doesn't matter, I say keep running your kit and playing with other people's stuff. If the itch grows and you enjoy the reticle or turrets than buy it. I can barely tell the difference in clarity between my AMG and Schmidt unless I have them side by side trying to discern the difference.
 
I have three SWFA 5-20 HD scopes. I have bought and sold Steiner M5xi, Athlon cronus, razor 4.5-27s, AMGs, XRSII, and others. I have spent a day with the nightforce 7-35 atacr. The 5-20 swfa remains my go to. I like the simple reticle that is thick enough to be useful at all magnification ranges. The diamonds (mildot) helps with this. I dont need a tree but if SWFA would add that as an option they would sell to the guys that do.

You wouldn’t be upgrading at all but would be gaining a new toy if you bought another scope. That may be reason enough. If it isn’t enough then save your money.
 
Thank you guys. Thats what I figure too. I feel like my SWFA can last another many many years but sometime I just want if the newer stuff are that much better in this case the NF ATACR
 
Datsrboi said:
Thank you guys. Thats what I figure too. I feel like my SWFA can last another many many years but sometime I just want if the newer stuff are that much better in this case the NF ATACR
Click to expand...
Not better but different. If you have the cash pick it up. You said you can get a deal on it. If so you shouldn’t have a problem getting most if not all your money back if you choose to sell it. Why not? You may end up liking it more. (Doubt it ?)
 
There isn't a boatload of difference between the NF and the SWFA HD. I have spent a good bit of time behind both. NF has a bunch of features like zero stop, better turrets, rev indicator, illumination, etc. Optically it's better, but the SWFA is very good as well.

If you're getting into comps at all, I'd make the jump to NF. If you're not really doing any comps, the SWFA is probably fine to roll with.

I will say the difference between 20x and 25x isn't nothing. I like having that extra mag for prone precision work.
 
You certainly don't need the Nightforce. I have owned both and the Nightforce won't make a huge difference. For me, I wanted the Nightforce and that's why I got it. If you have limited funds and there are other items that would help you more then I say keep rocking your SWFA. It is a very good thing to have a scope you are competent with and that you are content with.

If you don't have a Kestrel then that would be a better buy I my opinion. That's just one example of how the money could be spent on something that makes a bigger difference for your shooting.
 
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Spend the money on a professional long range class. That would be a bigger influence on your shooting than a zero stop lol.
 
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ATACR is a better scope. If you can swing the price, it will get you a step up in performance, but it is not as huge a step as you'd think. Once you get to the quality of the 5-20x SWFA you are getting into the realm of diminishing returns. It really comes down to whether that step up is worth the money.

I spend a lot of time with fancy scopes and own a few (a couple of Tangent Thetas, AMG, a couple of Marches, etc). They are worth it to me. Whether they are worth it to you is really personal.

Mid-range (ish) scopes like SWFA HD and Delta Stryker HD really offer impressive performance for the money and even the scopes a step below them in price, like Meopta Optika6, Brownells MPO, PST Gen 2, SWFA Classic, etc are getting really competent.

If you are really looking at high end scopes, you kinda have to have clear expectations in terms of why you are spending the money. I happen to like scopes on the light weight side if things with some crossover appeal, which is how I ended up with March 3-24x52, TT315M and Vortex AMG 6-24x50. I wanted to hit a certain weight limit, so there was a reason to my madness. I had another project where weight was not critical, but I wanted absolute optical excellence. That's how I ended up with TT525P with Gen3 XR. I have a specific Grendel project that I wanted a short scope for, so it has March 1-8x24 Shorty.

Every time I look at a really expensive scope, I have a specific purpose in mind that can not be easily accomplished with a less expensive design.

ILya
 
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I recently did a few tests with the SWFA 5-20HD, a Bushnell LRTS 4.5-18, and a SWFA 3-15 SS.
The first test was the FinnAccuracy optical test. Those results are in the attached screenshot. On 15x, the SWFA was at least the equal of the Bushnell in the color block tests. It wasn't quite as good on maximum power (20x vs 18x), but was hardly behind.
My main complaint with the 5-20HD is its difficult eyebox. On maximum power, head position is absolutely critical. Even at 15x, it's not great- with use, though, one does get very used to it.

Aside from the optical quality, I enjoy the guaranteed reliability of the SWFA, as well as the quality service and speedy return of contact of their people. Bottom line is the SWFA remains mounted on my rifle.


Screen Shot 2019-10-22 at 9.01.38 AM.png
 
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I still have a SS 5-20 as well and it will stay that way.
 
My SS 5-20 has been on a 338 Lapua Improved and was bought on the first preorder batch for $1000. It has been FLAWLESS, and yeah, is a bit dated..but who cares? Guess who was smoking a target at 2500 first with a 6k complete rig vs a 25k custom Desert Tech with a Tangent on top?
 
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I've owned a few 5-20 SWFA scopes and a 7-35 atacr as well as quite a few others. The atacr is my favorite I have ever owned. Loved everything about it

That being said, I paid 2800 for it used. I could buy 3 used swfa 5-20hd for that!! There isn't a damn thing wrong with them. I shoot comps and I honestly d ok nt think a zero stop is really necessary if you are running anything besides a 308. With the 10mils per rev you very rarely are going to go over 10 mil. I actually like the mil-quad reticle also. I'm not a big fan of trees. In my experience holdover stages are a major minority.

If you can afford the atacr you will love it, but it's not needed. The swfa will produce the same results.

Another case of indian not arrow.
 
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I ended up buying the atacr since I got it for such a good deal that if I do not like it I know I will get my money back. It feels great and the glass was clear. I have concluded I love my swfa a tad bit more only when it comes to glass. When looking through it the image goes all the way to the edge. In the NF it looks like you are looking through a tube like a Red dot. The eye distance on the Swfa felt more forgiving. That’s about it. Everything else the NF has that the Swfa didn’t have was nice. Clarity I couldn’t tell a difference between both. I’m going to spend some time on the NF and see if it grows on me but I’m proud of the underrated Swfa
D1739737-726E-490B-9CE1-01DFD71B607F.jpeg
 
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Datsrboi said:
Thank you guys. Thats what I figure too. I feel like my SWFA can last another many many years but sometime I just want if the newer stuff are that much better in this case the NF ATACR
Click to expand...
The new reticles from Dimitri at Primary Arms are the only reason I would switch. He is one innovative dude, and folks are taking notice. I love his KISS method of using a reticle to do the math for you, so you can almost instantly get on target with a specific caliber, like his Apollo design for the 6.5 140gr. Creedmoor.
 
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Kenko Tokina, the makers of the SWFA scopes, make good stuff.....Your SWFA will give many years of good service.
EJ



Datsrboi said:
I tried asking this in many places but its hard to get a true answer as most people have no experience with SWFA. Those who do did not have them long nor have much feedback. Because of that I am going back to the place that made it as strong gas it did. Please forgive me as I am always trying to understand and learn.

I brought my SWFA 5-20x Optic 9 years ago from this forum alone. At the time I was a new shooter and for the price and the awesome high review I jumped the gun. I was fortunate that SWFA is located here where I live so i picked it up personally. 9 hard years and maybe 8-10k rounds through 308/6.5 creedmoor and the scope has never miss a beat. Its been dependable and very very clear. It does lack in some luxury features but it never failed me.

That said moving forward 9 years later and actually now shooting past 1000 yards and doing a few local match I started taking a look at higher end optics just out of curiosity. Particular the Nightforce ATACR C546 5-20x. I was given a chance to buy one but for the life out of me I barely see any difference in clarity. I am pretty sure it will track awesome but my SWFA has too. Given I wasnt given a lot of time behind the nightforce other than what I see in stores can someone point out to me what I would get if I get out of a 1400 dollar SWFA into something almost double the price? (I am actually getting it for way cheaper but stores sell them for almost 3 grand)

Tomorrow is my chance to buy it and just want peoples opinion on if its really that much better? I shoot bolt action a lot and do local matches and want to take it past 1000-1700 yards.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Needed? No

Appreciated? You know the answer to that.
 
So a 30 MOA rail will do it? I know the shims work. I’ve used them in the classics but I really like the solid wall zero stop of my LRTSIs

John
 
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Only got rid of mine because of the reticle and lack of zero stop.
They were very nice, not in the same league as my NF ATACR but nice.
BFAB7BDD-54E4-4BFB-8FA0-D11FE83ADE1A.jpeg
 
I’m in the minority. I’ve had a swfa 5-20hd for several years. It’s still on my primary long range rifle (RPR 6.5 creed) and at about 1000 round mark the reticle was not level. I assumed the scope had rotated in the mount (a JP mount) but upon inspection it was actually the reticle inside had rotated out of level with the turrets..... I sent it to swfa and the sent me another or fixed mine so ???? On them. However that’s something I can’t imagine happening on a ATACR. I’ve been saving and jonesing for an ATACR for a long time. IMO and experience there is no better value than the swfa. It tracks perfectly and has great glass which are the two things I couldn’t live without on my long range setup. But I wouldn’t take it to war
D2C4F63F-33CF-46AB-9338-0479E37DAEF4.jpeg
 
Whitshot said:
I’m in the minority. I’ve had a swfa 5-20hd for several years. It’s still on my primary long range rifle (RPR 6.5 creed) and at about 1000 round mark the reticle was not level. I assumed the scope had rotated in the mount (a JP mount) but upon inspection it was actually the reticle inside had rotated out of level with the turrets..... I sent it to swfa and the sent me another or fixed mine so ???? On them. However that’s something I can’t imagine happening on a ATACR. I’ve been saving and jonesing for an ATACR for a long time. IMO and experience there is no better value than the swfa. It tracks perfectly and has great glass which are the two things I couldn’t live without on my long range setup. But I wouldn’t take it to warView attachment 7223263
Click to expand...
Even ATACRs break. There have been threads recently where guys have been sending the 7-35s back as soon as they get them.
 
Sanwizard said:
The new reticles from Dimitri at Primary Arms are the only reason I would switch. He is one innovative dude, and folks are taking notice. I love his KISS method of using a reticle to do the math for you, so you can almost instantly get on target with a specific caliber, like his Apollo design for the 6.5 140gr. Creedmoor.
Click to expand...

The fact that they put them in their long range scopes has to be one of the stupidest choices a scope maker has ever made.
 
I've said for years that the 5-20 is a very robust scope. I have owned 4 of them at various points. I do wish SWFA would produce different reticles (I've grown accustomed to some Christmas tree types with a center dot), so that is the only reason I no longer own them, but I continue to recommend them to individuals who are newer to PR shooting, or those who don't have a substantial budget for optics.
 
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