What would you all consider to be the top most inherently accurate 2000 yard calibers? I'm talking if the shooter is an expert marksman and an expert wind reader, what caliber is known for the best 2000 yard accuracy.
- Thread starter jaybigboy34
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These are the calibers that I have seen shot to 2000 yards or more that are very accurate. These are all with commercial brass available,
300NM, 338NM, 338LM , 375CT , .408 CT and 416 B all shoot very good out to and passed 2000 yards. I have shot my .338LM to 2616 yards at a match. Then you have the 33xc and 37xc that David Tubbs is making and brass is available for. I don't have any interest if fire forming brass so the wildcat calibers are out for me.
I am able to do a fairly good job at shooting long range BUT i am no expert just someone who has put in the time to learn a little about shooting and what it takes to hit targets at long distances.
300NM, 338NM, 338LM , 375CT , .408 CT and 416 B all shoot very good out to and passed 2000 yards. I have shot my .338LM to 2616 yards at a match. Then you have the 33xc and 37xc that David Tubbs is making and brass is available for. I don't have any interest if fire forming brass so the wildcat calibers are out for me.
I am able to do a fairly good job at shooting long range BUT i am no expert just someone who has put in the time to learn a little about shooting and what it takes to hit targets at long distances.
In my humble opinion anything over 338 suffers from poor bullet availability.
The Sierra and Berger 300's can be tuned to produce some very tight groups.
338 Norma 338 Lapua 338 Norma Ackley Improved 338 Lapua Ackley Improved are the 4 easiest for the average shooter with a nod going to the 338 Lapua Ackley Improved with 0.175 - 0.190 more freebore than a standard chamber.
The bigger cases get it done but require specialty dies that take way too long to have made.
I would rather shoot than wait on parts.
The Sierra and Berger 300's can be tuned to produce some very tight groups.
338 Norma 338 Lapua 338 Norma Ackley Improved 338 Lapua Ackley Improved are the 4 easiest for the average shooter with a nod going to the 338 Lapua Ackley Improved with 0.175 - 0.190 more freebore than a standard chamber.
The bigger cases get it done but require specialty dies that take way too long to have made.
I would rather shoot than wait on parts.
I would also assume the 50 BMG as well. I know the 408CT and 416B are bad boys too!
Hi,
Well the BMG is not known for accuracy at 1000 yards, much less 2000 yards.
Just look at the average group size at 1000yd (Not the records) of the FCSA National Championships and compare those to the NBRSA average group size at 1000yd.
Sincerely,
Theis
Well the BMG is not known for accuracy at 1000 yards, much less 2000 yards.
Just look at the average group size at 1000yd (Not the records) of the FCSA National Championships and compare those to the NBRSA average group size at 1000yd.
Sincerely,
Theis
I did not know that. I guess its good for dropping jeeps. Haha
Theis
The 50 at 1000 yards suffers from monolithic solids and still manages to shoot under 2 inches.
At 2000 yards Ken Eng managed to bang our gong 6-7 out of 10 shots with his old barrel and the A-Max bullet which isn't exactly known as the pinnacle of accuracy.
If the OP is going to go beyond 2000 yards the bigger rounds get the job done better but they are not 6 PPC accurate rounds.
You need good bullets to win at 1000 yards like the old Clay Spencer 103's which are now called Vapor Trails in the U.S. or the CopperHeads if your in Australia and if you don't shoot 6mm the 187 BIB flatbase bullet in a 13-14 twist barrel is hard to beat. All of those bullets will spin under 1 on a Juenke machine with extreme regularity.
Speer bullets will spin 25 points all day long and you never see them on the line.
I am spinning some Warner bullets right now. The picture is deceptive because you need to set the matching at a single setting then spin the bullets looking for the variation.
I set it near 10 and in 0.5 scale and so far the first 9 bullets have all measured under 1 deviation unit which is 0.5 deviation on the 0.5 scale.
If the rest measure this good they get more of my money.
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Curious if 300PRC could fit into this category. Thoughts?
There's too many variables and interpretations of "best" caliber.......
Are there any financial limits, weight limit on rifle setup, only plinking a target or want more energy on target, reloading an option or only off the shelf ammo etc........
I'm building a .338 NM but other great options are .300 NM, 7mm-.300NM and if smaller action was a requirement 7SAUM or 7WSM
I would love to see results of the .300 PRC and new Berger 329grain when it comes out
Theis
Can you show me a full line of sub 2 inch NBRSA groups?
The screenshot shows the groups at the 2017 Nationals.
I suspect you are looking at local club matches?
The URSA gongs are 37 inches round and if you get 4 out of 10 you advance in 500 yard increments.
You are cordially invited to any of our matches.
The picture is me shooting my 338 Lapua Ackley Improved across a 2000 yard canyon. It's hard to spot your misses in snow.
Can you show me a full line of sub 2 inch NBRSA groups?
The screenshot shows the groups at the 2017 Nationals.
I suspect you are looking at local club matches?
The URSA gongs are 37 inches round and if you get 4 out of 10 you advance in 500 yard increments.
You are cordially invited to any of our matches.
The picture is me shooting my 338 Lapua Ackley Improved across a 2000 yard canyon. It's hard to spot your misses in snow.
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no and no the 300 prc is the creedmore of 30 caliber world
Yes it will.
In testing with Accuracy International for PSRI I shot it out to 2000 yds. beside a 338 Lapua in 17+ MPH cross wind at Hornady's test facility. 5'X5' piece of steel. I put my group on the bottom half and the 338 Lapua on the top half. Mine had a bit more vertical in it because I was holding in the top of a cedar tree. I was shooting a 225 Gr HPBT. The ELD-M's are even better at distance. Is the PRC the best? Nothing is ever the best but it is enough to more than get the job done.
What distance are these groups shot at?
What I've been reading, and playing with some ballistic data, it seems more that 300NM and just a hair shy of 338LM. I'm curious to see how this caliber evolves out to distances.
All the groups were shot at 1000 yards.
I don't know of any organisation holding benchrest matches farther than that.
Group sizes will vary with the weather.
If your shooting in Reno Nevada and the zephyrs are blowing groups will open up.
Like Mr. Tooley alluded to, "The Best" is subjective at best. You have gotten solid advice in basically the same post 4 times.
First, you've never stated your end game, you want to win a 2K competition, or casually bang steel on a weekend.
There is a big difference in a case that can be extremely accurate on a non windy day, and one that get the job done in 25mph winds.
On 6 BR, you got advice that a 338 Lapua IMP was the king. If some dude shooting a 7 saum had won that K2m in Townsend Mt, would the saum be king, or would the shooter be the king?
A lot of conjecture can arise here.
First, you've never stated your end game, you want to win a 2K competition, or casually bang steel on a weekend.
There is a big difference in a case that can be extremely accurate on a non windy day, and one that get the job done in 25mph winds.
On 6 BR, you got advice that a 338 Lapua IMP was the king. If some dude shooting a 7 saum had won that K2m in Townsend Mt, would the saum be king, or would the shooter be the king?
A lot of conjecture can arise here.
Exactly correct!!!
On a good day my 6 Dasher with 121 moa added in will hit the gong.
We had a 7 SAUM built by hide member BillyGoat Machine hit it 7 out of 10 times at 2054 yards.
We also have a group of 300 win mag shooters who go by the name the thirty caliber conspiracy and they knock the gong regularly.
I posted the 338's because they have good brass are very accurate and easy to load for and dies and good components are readily available.at reasonable prices.
Hoffer who posts here was running the low node around 2570 FPS and did a number on the gong.
At our URSA matches if you go 4/10 or more we move back to 2586 yards and shoot another round.
All the shooters getting 4/10 then move back to 3030 yards and it keeps going until no one gets enough hits.
If your on a strict budget the Savage 111 long-range hunter in 338 Lapua will easily get you out to 2000 yards.
The bigger cartridges work well if your a good reloader but seem to suffer from factory ammunition from my experience.
On a good day my 6 Dasher with 121 moa added in will hit the gong.
We had a 7 SAUM built by hide member BillyGoat Machine hit it 7 out of 10 times at 2054 yards.
We also have a group of 300 win mag shooters who go by the name the thirty caliber conspiracy and they knock the gong regularly.
I posted the 338's because they have good brass are very accurate and easy to load for and dies and good components are readily available.at reasonable prices.
Hoffer who posts here was running the low node around 2570 FPS and did a number on the gong.
At our URSA matches if you go 4/10 or more we move back to 2586 yards and shoot another round.
All the shooters getting 4/10 then move back to 3030 yards and it keeps going until no one gets enough hits.
If your on a strict budget the Savage 111 long-range hunter in 338 Lapua will easily get you out to 2000 yards.
The bigger cartridges work well if your a good reloader but seem to suffer from factory ammunition from my experience.
the 300 prc is no where close to the 300 nm in performance its close to the 300 wm not the norma
First off, I'm not trying to instigate and this is just based on my cursory research. For the record, my current long action is 300WM and I am considering moving to 300NM or 300PRC at my next re-barrel, thus I've been doing some research.
Here's what I saw for box ammo comparison (these are Hornady's numbers).
300 PRC 225 gr ELD - 2810fps & 3945 ft/lb
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/300-prc-225-gr-eld-match#!/
300 Norma Magnum 225 gr ELD - 2850fps & 4058 ft/lb
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/300-norma-magnum-225-gr-eld-match#!/
Also, for load data, they seem very similar is pill, power, and charge to produce very similar velocities for the same 30 cal bullet. I agree there is a minor difference, though I'm not sure I'd consider this "no where close"... am I missing something?
Hornady is incentivized to minimize the performance gap between the two cartridges in their factory ammo for obvious reasons. I have a 300 Norma IMP, and my fireforming loads with Berger 230s run about 2980 with Retumbo. Many people are pushing the Norma even faster. With RL33, I have been up to 3075 with 230s in the standard Norma with minimal pressure signs, but accuracy dropped off in my rifle.
FWIW, Berger claims a MV of 2934 for their 300 Norma 230 grain ammo.
Edited to add that my velocities are with Norma brass, which is notoriously soft in the case head. When Lapua brass hits the shelves for the Norma magnums, I expect even higher velocity with good brass life.
FWIW, Berger claims a MV of 2934 for their 300 Norma 230 grain ammo.
Edited to add that my velocities are with Norma brass, which is notoriously soft in the case head. When Lapua brass hits the shelves for the Norma magnums, I expect even higher velocity with good brass life.
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I think people need to consider the entire picture when they are looking at how accurate "they will be" at 2,000 yards.
First are they willing to transport a bench or carry a 40+ pound gun. Secondly, are they aware that even spotting for some calibers can make your noise run?
I am going to agree with @Lynn Jr that "if" you are considering a ELR cartridge for the 2K range in a field style gun, the 338 is very hard to beat. The recoil impulse is gentle relatively speaking, the muzzle blast is not bad and it is very generous on barrel life compared to hot 7s and 30's with enough mass to easily spot. I've had hot rodded 7s almost out of barrel life before I could get the loads I wanted..
I really think as the muzzle energy starts getting to some on the super large calibers, as does the weight of handling the guns, the muzzle blast and the recoil in general. It can just over task some shooters. Oh, then there is the expense.. remember you need to shoot a lot to get better. Maybe thats why you often see guys doing well and even better on smaller calibers than some of the guys on ballistically superior ELR cartridges.
All that said, there is no doubt that a big ass gun is going to hold the longest shot record - but you still need to ask yourself is the diminishing returns worth it.. for many people it might be yes, for others maybe not.
First are they willing to transport a bench or carry a 40+ pound gun. Secondly, are they aware that even spotting for some calibers can make your noise run?
I am going to agree with @Lynn Jr that "if" you are considering a ELR cartridge for the 2K range in a field style gun, the 338 is very hard to beat. The recoil impulse is gentle relatively speaking, the muzzle blast is not bad and it is very generous on barrel life compared to hot 7s and 30's with enough mass to easily spot. I've had hot rodded 7s almost out of barrel life before I could get the loads I wanted..
I really think as the muzzle energy starts getting to some on the super large calibers, as does the weight of handling the guns, the muzzle blast and the recoil in general. It can just over task some shooters. Oh, then there is the expense.. remember you need to shoot a lot to get better. Maybe thats why you often see guys doing well and even better on smaller calibers than some of the guys on ballistically superior ELR cartridges.
All that said, there is no doubt that a big ass gun is going to hold the longest shot record - but you still need to ask yourself is the diminishing returns worth it.. for many people it might be yes, for others maybe not.
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The 300 PRC I had (limited) experience with is pushing 225 ELD-M's @ 2940fps avg. on a LabRadar. I don't know the barrel length. 26 or 28" on an AI. Was with Hornady brass so it wasn't hot-rodding. Remember that published velocity #'s for factory ammo is likely with 24" test barrels. Easily another 100-150fps in a 28-30+" pipe.
At my elevation, the 300 PRC is just flirting with trans-sonic speeds at 2000yd. From what I've seen there is no indication it would fall significantly behind vs. 300 NM.
We'll find out. As soon as Bartlein gets me my 30 cal. blank I'll be playing with the PRC. Dedicated LR 1000+ rig.
At my elevation, the 300 PRC is just flirting with trans-sonic speeds at 2000yd. From what I've seen there is no indication it would fall significantly behind vs. 300 NM.
We'll find out. As soon as Bartlein gets me my 30 cal. blank I'll be playing with the PRC. Dedicated LR 1000+ rig.
Contrary to what the internet experts say Hornady uses engineering and industry standards when manufacturing ammunition. SAAMI sets the standards then Hornady with a pressure and velocity barrel handes the engineering part.
You'd be surprised how many small ammo companies don't have a pressure gun.
Is the PRC the equal of the Norma. No but not that far behind. YCLMV That means your case life may vary.
You'd be surprised how many small ammo companies don't have a pressure gun.
Is the PRC the equal of the Norma. No but not that far behind. YCLMV That means your case life may vary.
Dave
At our monthly 2000 yard matches we have a group that calls themselves the 30 Caliber Conspiracy and they shoot the 300 Win Mag with a 215 Berger at around 2945 FPS iirc.
In looking at the 300 Norma and 300 PRC they both look slower than the win mag if I am reading these posts correctly?
I shot my 1000 yard heavyguns in 300 WSM at 2000 yards with the187 BIB flatbase bullets and got 8/10 on a practice day.
The biggest hurdle we see at 2000 yards is not enough elevation and spotting misses when using the smaller rounds.
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300 Norma with 198 Flatlines's or a 338 Lapua Imp with 256 Flatlines is relay something to see.
@Lynn Jr Apples to apples, same chamber pressures, appropriate powders being used, and same barrel length, the PRC edges the 300 Win Mag out by about 50-75fps on average, and the Norma is faster than the PRC by another 50-75fps.
So the 300 Ackley based on an improved 300 Weatherby case with 100 grains of water capacity beats them all?
I am using a 0.287 freebore in order to keep the pressure ring in the neck and in front of the neck shoulder junction.
I am running a 0.334 neck diameter and using 0.005 neck tension because the pressure ring will try an iron out the neck during bullet seating.
The accuracy node is 2 grains wide from 64-66 grains of H4350 using Norma brass and a CCI primer.
I am running a 0.334 neck diameter and using 0.005 neck tension because the pressure ring will try an iron out the neck during bullet seating.
The accuracy node is 2 grains wide from 64-66 grains of H4350 using Norma brass and a CCI primer.
That's too bad. The 300WM with a 180gr or 198gr Flatline is 2000 yards capable all day long.
And I'm guessing the PRC with a Flatline will quite impressive too!
Based on what? If you're going to make a very generalized claim at least substantiate it with facts. It's ridiculous to say that one cartridge that's within 75 fps of another is nowhere close in performance.
New LD3 bullet in .338 LM, 3,295 fps, 273 grain, BC of 0.94 G1, 9.5/1 or faster twist barrel, 200.15 dope
So, if I add 5,400 yards 3 of 10 shots, Jan 12th, 2019 in Fallon, NV...
Would you mind sharing the powder you used to get that velocity? I have seen 32" Lapua Ackleys that are 100fps slower than you with a 256 Flatline, and those were hot loads. I have no idea how you are getting that velocity out of a standard Lapua and an even heavier bullet.
The freebore on a 338 Lapua or 338 Lapua Ackley Improved is crazy short.
The cartridge was developed before the 300 grain Sierra MatchKing was on the market so most reamers are 0.175-0.190 too short to start with.
I generally add 0.190 to all my 338 throats and the velocity with the 256 is quite good.
The cartridge was developed before the 300 grain Sierra MatchKing was on the market so most reamers are 0.175-0.190 too short to start with.
I generally add 0.190 to all my 338 throats and the velocity with the 256 is quite good.
Dan, a buddy of mine, 74 years old, and full tilt addicted to ELR pushes your 256 gr .338’ s at 3404 FPS, with no pressure issues!, RL 26, from a 32” gain twist 338 Lapua40deg improved. At 1642 yards he was shooting a 1/4 MOA, and hitting 6” thick rocks at will. It’s was the best performance from a rifle at that distance that I have seen. What I leaned that day was, accurate velocity is your friend especially in the wind, I’m not crazy about long barrels but they have their place, RL 26 is a good substitute for N570 in that cartridge, and lathe turned solids are an improvement over cap and core bullets, I was shooting a 300 Norma with cap and core and was way out of the league of the solid bullets moving at 3400.
H1000, but "Non-Traditional" bullet design allows for more powder, no pressure signs during repeated testing.
correct we run . 250 fb on most of our 338 wildcats
the flatlines have a short bearing surface and can be pushed faster then the 250 jacketed bullets
BDGuns, did you happen to see that the cartridge that I was describing was 40
deg Ackley Improved? Its on line 2. If memory serves me correctly he was running 108 grains of RL26, chamber was throated for solids by Short Action Custom.
deg Ackley Improved? Its on line 2. If memory serves me correctly he was running 108 grains of RL26, chamber was throated for solids by Short Action Custom.
Dan
No disrespect intended. As I stated if starting with a clean slate and all the options available today I wonder where the 300 WM would be ranked in caliber selection.
None taken. Most folks don't realize the potential of a high BC solid in these type of conversations when they are accustomed the thought process of jacketed bullets.
