Doent look like there's a non illuminated anymore. Just the 3i and Pro.
- Thread starter D_TROS
- Start date
Maybe their website just isn't updated yet...
Seems like the non illuminated XTR IIIs are discontinued. The eta for the Pro is March. ETA for the new XTR III is Q2. MAP for the Pro SCR 2 and SCR 1/4 is $2200, MAP for the Tremor 5 is $2500. MAP for the new XTR III is 1200 and 1400 for the respective magnifications. Pros are all US, new XTR IIIs are Philippines. Seems like communication on these new products has been not amazing
There are no more non-illuminated XTR III's being made is my understanding, the assembly of the XTR III has been moved to the Philippines and only the illuminated model will be made moving forward.
The good news is the USA assembled XTR III scopes will now be worth twice as much (collectors items) - I have a 5.5-30 I'll sell you for $3000
Well I have been waiting forever for a 3-18 illuminated and I just lost all interest if they moved manufacturing to the Philippines.
Looks like nx8 it is for me. If I am buying a scope made overseas it will be Japan, or Europe if I could afford it.
Looks like nx8 it is for me. If I am buying a scope made overseas it will be Japan, or Europe if I could afford it.
Same, the search continues...
No idea. I know after initial testing there are some changes. The butt pad being highest on the list. They are making them and all testers didnt like the feel so they are making a new one.
The zero stop is a little brass looking triangle. one side it stops at 0. unscrew and flip it and it stops at -.4 mils. I havnt done this, but it can be removed. I was told depending on how high you lock the turet on, you can go under as far as you would like.
pretty cool...
as mentioned non illum will no longer be avail. easy way to detemine if us made or Philly.
I guess Im confused. Waiting for another company to make a US illum compact scope? you may be waiting forever if thats the case...
As I mentioned in my last post...you are mad there isnt a US made scope (understandably) so you are going to boycot the foreign one with more features to buy a more expensive foreign one with less features?
illum 3-18 xtr3 $1200
illum mk5 $2400
illum nx8 $1900
illum LHT $1900
march $2500 (only one I would consider)
Ive had the xtr3 next to all the above and for nearly $800 cheaper its not even funny how much better the XTR3 is
you guys are killing me lol
DT
added illum pics to page 1. my phone skills suck. a little bleed off from the illum being too bright.
2 mils ea way hor
3 mils down
easy to switch from red or grn
Regards
DT
2 mils ea way hor
3 mils down
easy to switch from red or grn
Regards
DT
It's probably not wrong. The zero alignment marks will only appear to be perfectly aligned when you view them from directly behind the turret, with your line of sight parallel to the scope center line and directly behind the vertical center line of the turret. The mark on the turret cap is slightly offset to the rear of the mark on the turret body because the cap has to be of a larger diameter to fit over the body. Being that the photo was taken at @ 45 degrees off the turret's vertical center line you are mostly seeing the spacial offset between the two marks.
I have no issues with Filipino made scopes as long as the specs and QC are there, my issue is if it is poorly made. The ones assembled in the USA were just that - "assembled" but some parts were manufactured overseas, if a CNC machine is used in the USA and similar CNC used in the Philippines do you think the final product will be different? Maybe you don't trust the assembly of all the little parts because of bad experiences from scopes from Philippines in the past, that is understandable, but assuming the Filipino assembled scope will be any "less" quality is a bit short sighted when we haven't even seen the scopes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to hold off judgement until they actually get here, if half of them are falling apart and being sent back for repair then I will be griping and complaining, but to assume that is the case is a bit unfair I think. Would I prefer the XTR IIIi was still assembled in USA, sure, I like supporting the US workforce, but 98% of all our sport optics are manufactured overseas and outside of China I am open to the design.
A $1200 XTR IIIi 3.3-18x50 with excellent glass made in the Philippines vs. a $2000 NX8 2.5-20x50 assembled in Japan that has severe optical issues, well, I will give the Filipino scope a chance.
That's true of all translatable turret designs, the very nature of the shroud that must slip over the main turret shaft means that at odd angles it will look "off", this is part of why I prefer non-translatable turrets that do not rise and fall as you spin them and look "accurate" when viewed from angles.
If they were on different planes, sure. Thats not the case with the XTR3.
You are correct. However, I still believe there's probably some slight offset in the location of the turret and the body that leads to the appearance of misaligned marks in the first photo you posted. The angle of the perspective only adds to the effect. In any case, we're quibbling over a pretty minor issue in their marketing.
I can't argue with anything that you said, and my post above may have been a bit of an overreaction. When I think Philly, I think of vortex pst line. Sure they work, really compared to something made 20 years ago they are amazing but by today's standards they are just OK.
If they had been moved to LOW in Japan who has a great track record of producing top notch optics I would have nothing to bitch about.
And for the record the 2.5-20 nx8 appears to have to many issues for me. I would opt for the 4-32
I like my XTR3s. Country of origin be damned, I want a 3.3-18 illuminated. But if their one off demo doesn't even align, what does it say about their, soon to be, mass production ones?
It's one picture and too soon to draw random conclusions, it just doesn't look good when the first look is of a misaligned turret at 0.
I think everyone is freaking out over a weird angle.
If the turret attaches via the set screw method sure you can simply align the turret where ever you like?
I don't belive the XTR3 has splined turrets so it should'nt be an issue.
The turrets aren't splined, so if they aren't aligned you loosen the screws and adjust them.
As mentioned in eariler in the thread, the XTR 2 has been made in the Pihilipines for 8 years and the mechanical relaiblity hasn't been an issue on that scope. The PST Gen 2 is made in the Philipines, other than a few cases of the turret shearing off (a design issue if it is actually an issue) they seem to be a reliable scope and did well in the scope tracking chart Frank had posted.
As far as Philipino manufacturing goes, if their factories operate with the same work ethic and relaiblity as the workers they export then they produce an excellent product. You'd be hard pressed to find many people that have overwhelming bad experiences with Philipino workers, certainly every one I've meet has been great and damn near every employer I know prefers to hire them over locals.
Anicdotal evidence I know but the idea that anything produced outside the West or a few special countries (like Japan) is garbage, is something that has been discussed a lot and doesn't hold much water.
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The turrets are aligned, the photo is at an angle and it is an optical illusion, I can get a Nightforce to do the same thing (or any other translatable turret design).
Fair enough.
But here's the thing, the reason most owners love LOW manufactured scopes aren't necessarily because they are "made" by LOW, but because LOW designed them to begin with. A big part of how a scope performs are the design specs and optical formula. Burris has already designed this scope (I do not think it was LOW but believe it may have been even better...) and they've already setup manufacturing, by moving manufacturing to another location in the world I do not expect there to be massive changes in quality. My biggest question/concern will be QC and whether or not Burris-Philippines will maintain as high a level of quality control.
Roger that, 4-32 is a better design, turrets are mush in comparison though. Gotta love NF illumination and the Mil-XT is one of my favorite reticle designs. I really wish the ATACR 4-20 was more of a light tactical scope, if it was under 30 oz and did not tunnel at 4x I'd be all over that.
Even if you ignore the country of origion complaints, the reasons I'm still hanging out for this scope compared to the above options are:
MK5: Narrow FOV, no decent tree reticle, PR2 seems ok but not available in the 3.6-18
NX8: well known optical abnormalities, 4-32 seems ok but still shallow depth of field
LHT: no lower magnifcation FFP version, narrow FOV, seems too specialized towards ultra lightweight hunting
Razor G2: Heavy, Heavy, Heavy, not to concerned about it for a match rifle but who wants a 46oz 3-18 (virtually no one)
March: Until recently hasn't had tree reticle, depth of field and parallax sensitivity, cost is a lot higher than the all other options.
I've been wanting to buy something else as I'm sick of waiting on the Burris, but the 3.3-18 XTR3i seems to offer the best feature set of turrets, reticle, optical qualities and weight for a cross over regardelss of price range.
Maybe a few TT models and new March models are better but cost 2-3 times as much.
The only scope that comes close is the Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50, a little on the heavy side of things but cheaper than the XTR3.
If I absolutely needed a new optic I'd buy one of those but as I'm not in a life or death situation here i'll contiune to wait (like a chump) for the XTR3i.
If the reticle in the 3.3-18 was a decent thickness I would've jumped on the non-illum version, alas that was not the case.
I'm right there with you beet, have you checked out the Trijicon Tenmile 3-18x44, it is a longer scope but pretty lightweight considering. One thing you forgot to mention with Leupold is their insanely high cost of illumination. But at $1200 MAP, I do not see anything coming close to the XTR IIIi, certainly nothing on the market today. I am a fan of the Vortex PST II line for how well they perform at their price point; however, they do not come close to XTR III and at the "new" prices of the XTR IIIi they will certainly be a top recommendation for a "budget" scope. Until Vortex comes out with a PST III I just don't really see any competition. I won't even consider Athlon due to China manufacture, I'm sure their scopes are decent but trying not to fund the CCP as much as possible these days.
Meopta Optika6 3-18x56.
Lighter than the Ares. Not made in China. FFP tree reticle (with doughnut).
I have looked into it but that FOV is not nice, I'm a real stickler for wide FOV and find narrow FOV scopes just don't do it for me now I'm used to wider ones.
The primary scope I'm wanting to repalce is a 3-15 PST for the money I love this scope.
I really wish it had capped windage though as I've bumped it a few time now and it's something I'd like to not think about, a touch more magnication would be nice too. I really wish Vortex had kept the same reticle thickness in the 3-15 when they switched from the EBR-2c to the 7c, I've seen both reticles and the thicker one in the 3-15 was much better suited to the scope IMO.
If Vortex were to release a Gen3 PST with the above changes I think I would jump on that, until then I'll keep waiting on Burris.
I think the whole anti China thing is what is throwing me off the Athlon Ares too, I'm not crazy anti Chinese products but I'm willing to wait for the Burris so would rather not buy Chinese if I can.
I was keen to buy the 3-18 with Ilyas reticle but as above I hate scopes with narrow FOVs, and 33ft @ 100yards is on the very narrow end.
Long story short ever since I can remember I've preferred scopes with wide FOVs and have since worked out that about 38ft @ 100yards is as narrow as I want to go (which is pretty generous).
I'll leave it at that, this isn't a thread about Beetroots views on FOV specs....
I snapped some quick photos just as I got home tonight. The sun has set, so its approaching twilight.
For the life of me I couldn't get my phone to focus on the reticle, so thats disappointing. But you can get an idea of what the illumination looks like in low light setting when it will be needed. Its not daylight bright, but its definitely low light bright.
This is at 5.5x on the scope, 3x on the phone.
This is at 16x on the scope, 3x on the phone
This is at 30x on the scope, 1x on the phone
For the life of me I couldn't get my phone to focus on the reticle, so thats disappointing. But you can get an idea of what the illumination looks like in low light setting when it will be needed. Its not daylight bright, but its definitely low light bright.
This is at 5.5x on the scope, 3x on the phone.
This is at 16x on the scope, 3x on the phone
This is at 30x on the scope, 1x on the phone
Everyone is freaking out over ship dates and supplies. Just some perspective on the matter. This is how big Burris is, it’s not a huge facility with hundreds of workers. I took this a few minutes ago and the parking lot is full with employee vehicles. Looks to me like it’s all hands on deck trying to get stuff out the door.
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there are 3 pics on page 1. ill tey to get some better here soon. snow and cold out right now. haha. im skeered of going outside.
I did a side by side of the 7-35 in AZ NRL last week. Its not even close. the Pro has over 5 mils MORE field of view at 30 power and the Mk5 glass is really not impressive in that package. The Pro was clearer and brighter.
but seriously…5 mils more fov???
I am a fan of the 3-18 Mk5 but thats where it ends with that line up. They just have a narrow fov.
The MK5 glass was similiar to the XTR3. The pro glass is again noticeably better than both.
GL
DT
I’ve got a 1st gen Phone Skope with a couple of phone adapters if you ever want to get some pictures or video of rounds down range.
Any news on Pro's shipping?
I might swing by the LGS to see if they have any update but I’ll probably jump in on the preorder from thehebrewhammer
I'll probably do the same - already caught and released a TT, and have a Razor G3 incoming. I will have paid for my scopeducation, but at least I will have had 1st hand experience with a wide comparative set.
Curious why you let the tt go? I'm planning on buying at least 3 scopes this year, the hebrewhammer already has my money for a PRO, and am also considering a g3 Razor and then trying to decide between a TT or ZCO.
^I wrote about TT a few posts ago - in the worth upgrading thread - just check my post history.
I'm curious what the difference of guessing where .4mil is and where .5mil is? Doesn't matter the reticle, you'll be guessing some points.
For anyone who has used one of these, would it be practical on the writable turret to indicate your dope at 25 yard increments? Even if its just little color coded tick marks that would be pretty awesome.
My scope is the last piece of gear on my rifles not made in the USA - it would be great to change that with something that isn't a sacrifice or a step down in terms of glass quality. Bonus that it's made in CO.
My scope is the last piece of gear on my rifles not made in the USA - it would be great to change that with something that isn't a sacrifice or a step down in terms of glass quality. Bonus that it's made in CO.
I work near 58th and 25 if you want to come check it out.
I will post a pic of my turret I used in OK this past weekend but it depends on the match you are shooting. I have been using the white board turret for couple years with the xtr3.
but to answer your question, I have found it best to write in 25 yd increments in matches where a bdc knob is best.
PS careful with that USA love...some people get cranky lol.
(jk I dont care. I encourage)
Regards
DT
Just call Liberty up here in Johnstown for an update. None yet but they are on order. He did tell me they are on the list to receive them “sooner rather than later” and to check back in a week or two. 
Rifle parts are in today so I’ll be in their range often for the next couple of weeks dialing in loads.
Rifle parts are in today so I’ll be in their range often for the next couple of weeks dialing in loads.
as you can see I used color and ticks. also added wind in red. can use any color obviously.
verrry effective.
Regards
DT
Are those quarter and full value winds? (the high and low red numbers) If so, definitely looks like an Oklahoma match lol.
This is rad. Are you going to be at the match in Nebraska? Might have to sneak a peek.
Seriously? Yes there are a few out in the wild. Read the last 6 pages and you will know why they aren’t at dealers yet. I’ve spoken to a few and they all say they are on the way. Last time I checked, the supply chain across the entire world is shit, transportation is shit, and everyone’s attitude because they can’t get something tomorrow is shit.
The issue isn't that they're delayed, like you say, everything is running late at the moment. There's comments only a few posts above saying they've been told a March release, burris media team seem to think they're already available but that's news to any of their dealers and likewise if you talk to their customer support team they should be available as well so what's the truth?
Pick a date, any date and then stick to it. This drip feeding affair with no firm end date and discrepancies between the left and right hand is what lost them buyers on the xtr3 and it'll do the same here. I don't think anyone is concerned about the wait, it's the uncertainty and mixed messaging that's frustrating.
From what I’ve heard, there are a lot of dealers that won’t get them till March, which is the second shipment going out. Supposedly there were 100+ that went out the other day, we are all just waiting to find out who got them.
I like that it includes a sunshade. I just bought a Kahles and those tight Austrians not only didn't give me a sunshade, they don't even include lens caps!
