I see…any one wanna buy a like new Gen 3? Lol
- Thread starter jb1000br
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Ok, I got mine back today. It was picked up on Monday 21-Feb and came back to my front porch (two-day shipping) today. So 17 days.
The description that came back said the scope body (with new SN) was replaced to correct turret alignment, turrets were replaced with updated units, and parallax knob was loosened.
It's better. It's usable now. It's still not Gen2 crisp and "clicky," but it's usable. Turrets are tactile and audible enough in terms of "click quality" and loose enough to be manipulated on the clock.
I still plan to upgrade one of my two remaining Gen2 4.5-27x56 Razors to a Gen3 6-36x56... but I may wait a month or two. This first Gen3 is going on my Vudoo; two rimfire matches coming up in next two weekends. I want to see how it feels and works in a PRS-style match environment where the focus is NOT on the knobs.
The description that came back said the scope body (with new SN) was replaced to correct turret alignment, turrets were replaced with updated units, and parallax knob was loosened.
It's better. It's usable now. It's still not Gen2 crisp and "clicky," but it's usable. Turrets are tactile and audible enough in terms of "click quality" and loose enough to be manipulated on the clock.
I still plan to upgrade one of my two remaining Gen2 4.5-27x56 Razors to a Gen3 6-36x56... but I may wait a month or two. This first Gen3 is going on my Vudoo; two rimfire matches coming up in next two weekends. I want to see how it feels and works in a PRS-style match environment where the focus is NOT on the knobs.
I don’t think it’s THAT bad, but that’s going to be up to individual end-user value determinations.
True, its not and its still usable. I guess I been thinking I could have purchased a ZCO 4-20 for a few hundred bucks more and not have any QC issues.
Where you finding the 4-20 for a few hundred more? Asking for a friend lol.
So you got it back and it’s not any better?
Nah just being a whiny lil bitch, haven’t sent it back yet waiting on more feedback from returns, so far what I have read it’s kinda meh. I really don’t know what to expect, I guess am just disappointed. I will be rebarreling the rifle it’s sitting on soon, that’ll probably be the perfect time to send it if I decide to. I know yours is on its way back, I hope it goes well.
No i get it. I mean one of the selling points of the optic was supposed to be the turrets. Glass upgrade was expected. Albeit I’m shocked at how much of a step up it was but the turrets considering the rest of the scopes quality are very disappointing.
No one should be paying $3k for the Gen III 6-36, contact Scott at Liberty Optics and you’ll find the ZCO’s are more than $1000 more than what you can get the Gen III for.
Oh i know i bought from Scott lol. But if he’s finding 4-20s for 3100-3200 I’d like to know
I saw 5-27x in the low $3K range shipped recently, but you kinda had to be there. Street prices for the Gen 3 Razor are largely inline with Nightforce; I still haven't shot the 7-35x ATACR, but the smaller mag scopes in the ATACR range have never impressed me for the price. If we consider that bracket the competition, I think Vortex is adequately placed with adequate features. When we move to scopes that regularly sell for $3500+, I no longer consider the Vortex a competitor as much as the value option if you can't afford to be up there - and there's no shame in that. I remain pleased with Tangents, but they cost THOUSANDS more.
That’s not happening, not new anyway
We occasionally get trade-ins where people want to switch reticles or go to a different magnification, we don't list them but have a list for people looking for pre-owned ZCO's
I said a few hundred bucks more not a couple, I dont have a deal going on with anyone or anywhere. What I was saying is the gen 3 is 3k I know some of you paid less, so did I but not much. People that didn’t serve such as myself don’t have a military discount so that doesn’t apply to me. Buying a ZCO 4-20 online at a place that doesn’t collect tax with free shipping is 3,750 if you call and ask you might get a bit of a discount, let’s say 3,500-3,600 that’ll be a few hundred buck difference at least in MY case. If I knew then what I know now I would of done that.That’s not happening, not new anyway
See this guy right here knows what’s upWe occasionally get trade-ins where people want to switch reticles or go to a different magnification, we don't list them but have a list for people looking for pre-owned ZCO's
Opened mine up. Turrets are better but still a little lacking. Locking on the windage is fixed completely. Paper said replaced turret intervals. Maybe they’ll wear in a little snappier
I understand, but again, you can get the Gen III for quite a bit less than $3k (contact Scott at Liberty Optics) and you don’t have to be mil, no tax either (not yet) but our govt is looking to find ways to tax everything so enjoy it while it lasts. Over $1k is more than a few hundred which really puts it in a different tier price wise.
Been playing with turrets more. They’re louder. So it’s an improvement. Tactile feel isn’t quite as good as the Gen II. It’s similar to the ATACR though i still prefer the ATACR turrets. But it’s better.
Just picked up a few scopes from Cerakote at my LGS to match my ZCO 4-20 that originally came from @CSTactical
H-265 FDE, if I recall correctly.
Top to bottom:
Vortex 1-10x G3 Razor in ScalarWorks
Vortex 6-36x G3 Razor in Spuhr 0-MOA
NF C653 1-8x ATACR DMx in Badger C1
Painted to match this ZCO 4-20 in Spuhr 0-MOA:
Have a little more time behind the 6-36 now and my copy is just about perfect. Glass is excellent, turrets are very good, so for $2500 delivered I find nothing at all to complain about.
H-265 FDE, if I recall correctly.
Top to bottom:
Vortex 1-10x G3 Razor in ScalarWorks
Vortex 6-36x G3 Razor in Spuhr 0-MOA
NF C653 1-8x ATACR DMx in Badger C1
Painted to match this ZCO 4-20 in Spuhr 0-MOA:
Have a little more time behind the 6-36 now and my copy is just about perfect. Glass is excellent, turrets are very good, so for $2500 delivered I find nothing at all to complain about.
So I shot a rimfire match yesterday with the Gen3 mounted on my Vudoo. In that environment, the turrets were fine. There was one stage with targets at 93 - 179 - 353 - 415 yards. That's two full turns of elevation cranked on the clock. Although it was only 9 shots in the 90-second par time (3 rounds on the 415), I finished comfortably, and I'm slow in the best of circumstances. So the turret stiffness was definitely not an issue.
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It was the only stage I shot decent all day... 7 hits out of 9 shots, with 2 hits on the 415. Three others got 7s as well, but no one did better.
On the other hand, you know the Gen3 has the little button to help show which "turn" the elevation turret is at.... Hey Vortex, maybe put a little blinking red light on that puppy; maybe then I wouldn't have been exactly 20 mils high on the barrels stage.... dumbs***
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It was the only stage I shot decent all day... 7 hits out of 9 shots, with 2 hits on the 415. Three others got 7s as well, but no one did better.
On the other hand, you know the Gen3 has the little button to help show which "turn" the elevation turret is at.... Hey Vortex, maybe put a little blinking red light on that puppy; maybe then I wouldn't have been exactly 20 mils high on the barrels stage.... dumbs***
.Yup got to run my Gen III in its first match yesterday with @DownhillFromHere. Had a good time. The scope didn’t disappoint. Glass was great and no issues dialing up over 20 mils. Reticle was great for holds also which I used on 3 stages. Can’t wait to get it out again.
May seem stupid but hope the numbers on the turrets are bigger and painted on with something more durable than whiteout. I have a Gen II 4.5-27 and the some of the numbers are worn off to the point you can’t read them making it useless for dialing. Went back and read some comments about the turret issues after I posted. I am not hard to please, I would be happy with turrets I could read for fucks sakes!
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I don’t give a shit what it is as long as I can see the fucking thing. Something more durable than whiteout would help.
No it’s not impressive. I don’t dial the turrets anymore than anyone else but the “numbers” are small to begin with and some of the numbers are unreadable. You think I am bullshitting, I don’t give a shit so you know what you can do with your sarcasm. Others have mentioned this as well as opposed to the turrets on a ZCO or NF for example.
who pissed in your cheerios this morning
wasn't being sarcastic. just genuinely surprised having run gen2s for 4 years and never noticed any wear on the numbers
Like TT, I do wish someone at Vortex would have said "hey, we've got these huge turrets with all this space... let's put some big numbers on there making it easier to see."
My apologies,all good man.
Same here. I have one that is one of the first that came out and others over the last 8 years and never wore off the white in the numbers. Must have some sandpaper fingers. Lol
I might have to check my gloves lol. Living in northern Canada if you want to do any shooting year round a good portion of the time it is going to be cold. I tried shooting in -40 degrees without gloves and it wasn’t fun. Maybe mine is an anomaly but it is what it is. First world problems, not the end of the world, I was merely making an observation with my scope.
-40˚C near the operational limit for small arms, not sure if that is part of the problem...
Note risk of contact frostbite.
source>https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA563382.pdf
Your missing my point, obviously why I wear gloves or mitts for that matter when it’s that cold.
Finally got to play with one of these for a little while yesterday (I have had one sitting in my cart for a while, and it's taken a lot of will power not to click "check out", but I wanted to play with one in the flesh).
IMHO: glass is better than the G2, no doubt. The newer reticle is improved (but it’s not like the old one was terrible or anything). But, meh, there wasn't much else I liked.
FWIW, I pretty much stay at 15-18x ~98% of the time while I'm shooting, so that's where I was doing most of my comparison of the new one to my G2. It’s hard to quantify how much better glass helps, all I can say is it looked better/clearer, it wasn’t some magical experience where suddenly the mirage was cut in half or disappeared… it just looked a little nicer than what I’m used to, the difference wasn’t amazing or anything to me.
I didn't like the turrets at all, I far and away prefer the older G2 turrets. The stiffness didn't bother me at all, the mushiness did, the mix of "stiff yet vague" is a strange combination when dialing.
I think I hate the new turret locking mechanism. How "indecisive" it feels and operates kind of lights my minor-OCD on fire (now I get why guys are locking them inadvertantly). Guys slapping o-rings on their brand new scopes sounded wierd, not anymore. The locking mechanism on the G2 has a distinct "pop" when they unlock and/or lock, one can lock/unlock them and forget the lock feature is even there if one wants, the way the new lock feels, I'd rather not even have it.
I've decided I'm going to wait to take the plunge and hold off and see if the later production units get better as far as the turrets/locking is concerned. I'll probably still end up with one at some point, just not yet.
That said, I kind of get the feeling that I'm not exactly the target audience for some of the new features and tend to think the designers were quite aware of the semi-recent explosion in popularity of precision rimfire. The parallax going down to 10yrds and the extra magnification probably make it hard to ignore for that sort of thing. I'm not interested in rimfire much at all, so that stuff is lost on me.
JMHO, but if one likes their G2, I don’t think there’s any glaring reasons to rush to unload it and upgrade to the new model.
(My $0.02, YMMV.)
IMHO: glass is better than the G2, no doubt. The newer reticle is improved (but it’s not like the old one was terrible or anything). But, meh, there wasn't much else I liked.
FWIW, I pretty much stay at 15-18x ~98% of the time while I'm shooting, so that's where I was doing most of my comparison of the new one to my G2. It’s hard to quantify how much better glass helps, all I can say is it looked better/clearer, it wasn’t some magical experience where suddenly the mirage was cut in half or disappeared… it just looked a little nicer than what I’m used to, the difference wasn’t amazing or anything to me.
I didn't like the turrets at all, I far and away prefer the older G2 turrets. The stiffness didn't bother me at all, the mushiness did, the mix of "stiff yet vague" is a strange combination when dialing.
I think I hate the new turret locking mechanism. How "indecisive" it feels and operates kind of lights my minor-OCD on fire (now I get why guys are locking them inadvertantly). Guys slapping o-rings on their brand new scopes sounded wierd, not anymore. The locking mechanism on the G2 has a distinct "pop" when they unlock and/or lock, one can lock/unlock them and forget the lock feature is even there if one wants, the way the new lock feels, I'd rather not even have it.
I've decided I'm going to wait to take the plunge and hold off and see if the later production units get better as far as the turrets/locking is concerned. I'll probably still end up with one at some point, just not yet.
That said, I kind of get the feeling that I'm not exactly the target audience for some of the new features and tend to think the designers were quite aware of the semi-recent explosion in popularity of precision rimfire. The parallax going down to 10yrds and the extra magnification probably make it hard to ignore for that sort of thing. I'm not interested in rimfire much at all, so that stuff is lost on me.
JMHO, but if one likes their G2, I don’t think there’s any glaring reasons to rush to unload it and upgrade to the new model.
(My $0.02, YMMV.)
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Got a call from Vortex today, scope arrived yesterday and they’ve already cleaned up parallax and swapped some parts in the turret the message said. I’m looking forward to how everything feels once I get it back which might be later this week! Vortex VIP warranty delivers!!
Just thinking out loud here, but after playing with the G2 and G3 back to back the other day, think I've come to the conclusion that Vortex already has all the ingredients for a new model that'd be a winner:
Razor HD "Gen 2.5"
1. take the proven G2 scope body/turrets/erector...
2. add the G3's new/better glass and reticle...
3. give us a new/better scope tool like the G3's that doesn't destroy itself and/or chew up the turret caps by the second/third time you use it...
...VOILA!
(and since this is just hypothetical, maybe go crazy and offer it in black too!)
Razor HD "Gen 2.5"
1. take the proven G2 scope body/turrets/erector...
2. add the G3's new/better glass and reticle...
3. give us a new/better scope tool like the G3's that doesn't destroy itself and/or chew up the turret caps by the second/third time you use it...
...VOILA!
(and since this is just hypothetical, maybe go crazy and offer it in black too!)
Spent the day behind my G3 Razor for the first time. Had a 7-35 MK5 with the PR2 reticle, G1 Razor, 4.5-27 G2 Razor, and a 5-25 Tangent Theta to compare to side by side. Spent a few mins going back and forth with each side by side. Spent quite a bit of time behind each while shooting. Only looked through the TT, didn't shoot with it. Thoughts:
G3 turrets are great to zero, but way too stiff when dialing and having to make sure you don't apply downward pressure on the elevation turret to avoid it locking is just a shit design. I actually thought the G1 Razor had the best turret "feel", it's a well used scope but the smoothness, sound, and feel of each click is just perfect *to me. MK5 turret is great all around. TT was great but the clicks are very close together compared to the rest, I think it was a 15 mil turret VS 10 mils on the other scopes, think I preferred 10. The TT tool less turret is awesome. G2 turrets were fine.
Obviously preferential, but the PR2 reticle in the MK5 is badass. Just enough information and it's so unuttered that finding the target and spotting impacts is so easy, that reticle is the winner for me. The G3 reticle is definitely very good, better than the 7C it sort of replaced. I would probably be in love with the G3's 7D reticle if I wasn't using the PR2 at the same time.
Glass: I'll start by saying that my vision is exceptional but my eyes aren't real picky when it comes to glass clarity/resolution/etc, when I get behind a scope I'm focused on what is happening, finding a target and taking a shot VS thinking about the glass. I've always cared about tracking/durability/reticle choice in that order when picking a scope, not really glass quality. Our shooting was 400-900 yards on mostly white steel with dirt backstops. None of the scopes had any trouble spotting impact splashes of 6mm bullets or flying dirt from misses at 900. The extra magnification of the G3 and MK5 made picking out individual splashes in a cluster of impact marks easier I thought. I wasn't blown away by the TT like I expected to be, actually wasn't blown away at all. Great detail and color but I didn't find it better than the G3 or even the MK5 for that matter. I did not like the edges, my eyes seemed to be forced to the center of the picture to be happy. G1 and G2 Razor were as expected, good, not limiting, the others were better but I could run these 2 all day and be happy.
The MK5 and G3 Razor are close. I spent a lot of time behind both at the range and at the house afterwards at dusk looking at trees/buildings/etc, lots of color and detail to pick apart. They both seem to show a very natural picture, not tinted or anything weird. Neither seems brighter than the other. The colors they show are very close, the different shades of green on palm trees appeared pretty similar between the two scopes, a tan stucco wall was nearly exact. The G3 is crystal clear all the way to the edge, it's really great in that regard. The MK5 has a slight blur right at the edge, I don't really notice it unless I look. After a LOT of back and forth between the 2 scopes, the G3 definitely has a sharper image, but not by a ton. It resolved individual leaves and branches on bushes at about 700 yards better than the MK5 and I could pick up some movement of the screen on a porch blowing ever so slightly in the wind that I couldn't really pick up with the MK5 at roughly 800 yds, not certain what it was about the screen that the G3 saw better. The G3 glass is really really good in my opinion.
I'm not real thrilled with the eye box on the G3, I found it harder to get behind than any of the other scopes.
Overall, the G3 is pretty slick. Like widely discussed, the turrets are stiff and the eye box was finicky to me... I could look through that crystal clear picture for hours though!
At street prices *I'd* probably go:
MK5
G3
G1
G2
TT (what I saw didn't beat or justify double the cost of the next most expensive)
G3 turrets are great to zero, but way too stiff when dialing and having to make sure you don't apply downward pressure on the elevation turret to avoid it locking is just a shit design. I actually thought the G1 Razor had the best turret "feel", it's a well used scope but the smoothness, sound, and feel of each click is just perfect *to me. MK5 turret is great all around. TT was great but the clicks are very close together compared to the rest, I think it was a 15 mil turret VS 10 mils on the other scopes, think I preferred 10. The TT tool less turret is awesome. G2 turrets were fine.
Obviously preferential, but the PR2 reticle in the MK5 is badass. Just enough information and it's so unuttered that finding the target and spotting impacts is so easy, that reticle is the winner for me. The G3 reticle is definitely very good, better than the 7C it sort of replaced. I would probably be in love with the G3's 7D reticle if I wasn't using the PR2 at the same time.
Glass: I'll start by saying that my vision is exceptional but my eyes aren't real picky when it comes to glass clarity/resolution/etc, when I get behind a scope I'm focused on what is happening, finding a target and taking a shot VS thinking about the glass. I've always cared about tracking/durability/reticle choice in that order when picking a scope, not really glass quality. Our shooting was 400-900 yards on mostly white steel with dirt backstops. None of the scopes had any trouble spotting impact splashes of 6mm bullets or flying dirt from misses at 900. The extra magnification of the G3 and MK5 made picking out individual splashes in a cluster of impact marks easier I thought. I wasn't blown away by the TT like I expected to be, actually wasn't blown away at all. Great detail and color but I didn't find it better than the G3 or even the MK5 for that matter. I did not like the edges, my eyes seemed to be forced to the center of the picture to be happy. G1 and G2 Razor were as expected, good, not limiting, the others were better but I could run these 2 all day and be happy.
The MK5 and G3 Razor are close. I spent a lot of time behind both at the range and at the house afterwards at dusk looking at trees/buildings/etc, lots of color and detail to pick apart. They both seem to show a very natural picture, not tinted or anything weird. Neither seems brighter than the other. The colors they show are very close, the different shades of green on palm trees appeared pretty similar between the two scopes, a tan stucco wall was nearly exact. The G3 is crystal clear all the way to the edge, it's really great in that regard. The MK5 has a slight blur right at the edge, I don't really notice it unless I look. After a LOT of back and forth between the 2 scopes, the G3 definitely has a sharper image, but not by a ton. It resolved individual leaves and branches on bushes at about 700 yards better than the MK5 and I could pick up some movement of the screen on a porch blowing ever so slightly in the wind that I couldn't really pick up with the MK5 at roughly 800 yds, not certain what it was about the screen that the G3 saw better. The G3 glass is really really good in my opinion.
I'm not real thrilled with the eye box on the G3, I found it harder to get behind than any of the other scopes.
Overall, the G3 is pretty slick. Like widely discussed, the turrets are stiff and the eye box was finicky to me... I could look through that crystal clear picture for hours though!
At street prices *I'd* probably go:
MK5
G3
G1
G2
TT (what I saw didn't beat or justify double the cost of the next most expensive)
I actually updated my MK5 PR2 to a Vortex gen 3. I was never happy with the FOV and picture clarity of the mk5 at long ranges, specifically against dark backgrounds or if targets were in shadowy areas. That being said I also really liked the turrets on the mk5 and they’re much better than the gen 3s. My mk5 was a 5-25 so Idk how much better a 7-35 is.
Update on my G3 6-36 I got back over the weekend from Vortex.
Parallax is MUCH better, very usable now. They said they looked at the turrets and they replaced some small parts, the "click value" didn't change a whole lot, mine used to have a different sound throughout the range which was odd, that seems to be corrected now, but the clicks themselves are still muted, doesn't stop me from dialing accurately, just a different audible feedback from the very distinct clicks of say TT, Kahles and March's new turrets. This is personal preference and I have a bias towards more of that audible feedback, but very little play in G3 turrets and they land where they are supposed to. Mine are not too tight to turn, but it does take a bit of force to unlock and lock, I do not see myself accidentally locking or unlocking but we'll have to see over time.
Parallax is MUCH better, very usable now. They said they looked at the turrets and they replaced some small parts, the "click value" didn't change a whole lot, mine used to have a different sound throughout the range which was odd, that seems to be corrected now, but the clicks themselves are still muted, doesn't stop me from dialing accurately, just a different audible feedback from the very distinct clicks of say TT, Kahles and March's new turrets. This is personal preference and I have a bias towards more of that audible feedback, but very little play in G3 turrets and they land where they are supposed to. Mine are not too tight to turn, but it does take a bit of force to unlock and lock, I do not see myself accidentally locking or unlocking but we'll have to see over time.
Everything about my 6-36 is very good to excellent. Turrets are good, tactile and reasonably audible clicks. Image is excellent.
It has found its final resting place on my M107A1.
It has found its final resting place on my M107A1.
Is anyone having weird issues at 100yards? At distance, parallax is forgiving, glass is clear, etc etc. However, at 100 yards I am having to adjust parallax often and the picture is never as clear as it is at distance.
I still haven’t gotten mine mounted. Well it’s in the rings but got my throat lengthened on the 6.5x47. I turned the turrets the other day since i got its little brother the 1-10 in. They’ve gotten a little louder still prefer the feeling of the the little 1-10 over them. They’re better than my NXS F1 that it’s sitting next to.
Also still waiting on the unicorn atx chassis to even go on preorder so i can snag one. I think it’ll be a great setup once done. Hopefully i get to actually shoot it in the next year lol
Also still waiting on the unicorn atx chassis to even go on preorder so i can snag one. I think it’ll be a great setup once done. Hopefully i get to actually shoot it in the next year lol
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