This is the stuff I use, it's awesome. I got a 50lb bag that came with a reloading kit I bought from someone and I'm still working on finishing up the same bag years later.
Super shiny brass, doesn't stick in flash holes at all.
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This is the stuff I use, it's awesome. I got a 50lb bag that came with a reloading kit I bought from someone and I'm still working on finishing up the same bag years later.
Super shiny brass, doesn't stick in flash holes at all.
To dry my brass after wet tumbling, I simply lay them out on a dry towel, the towel doing the drying on the outside, then heat them up with a heat gun for about 5 minutes. In a just a few minutes the brass has dried on the inside and cooled off and ready for further processing.
I do. You'll be surprised how much dirt and carbon residue the dryer sheet picks up. Media lasts a lot longer.
Not to throw more fuel on the "anneal-before vs aneal-after side discussion"... but in reality, either way is probably fine, both/either definitly being better than not doing it at all.
I guess I'm in the anneal-first camp, but that's mostly just because that's the way that made the most sense to me and has been working pretty damn good for a long time, so I've had no reason to try it any other way.
But that said, I know Scott Saterlee and some others who've been doing this a long time - anneal towards the end of their process, right before seating bullets... and I am a little curious as to whether it's better/worse/same like that..?
Just on face value and unscientifically guessing, I do think annealing before sizing probably means getting a more precisely sized case, but there probably is something to the theory that annealing towards the end may get one a really consistent bullet release upon firing... IDK.
I guess I'm in the anneal-first camp, but that's mostly just because that's the way that made the most sense to me and has been working pretty damn good for a long time, so I've had no reason to try it any other way.
But that said, I know Scott Saterlee and some others who've been doing this a long time - anneal towards the end of their process, right before seating bullets... and I am a little curious as to whether it's better/worse/same like that..?
Just on face value and unscientifically guessing, I do think annealing before sizing probably means getting a more precisely sized case, but there probably is something to the theory that annealing towards the end may get one a really consistent bullet release upon firing... IDK.
I tend to agreee, but am by no means an expert. It makes sense to anneal then size, cuz heating expands stuff, with no guarantee at the rate / amt of contraction with cooling. I talked with Peterson yesterday and my main take-away was "Ultimately, every single piece of brass is different.." Diffferences cause inconsistency, which is the enemy of accuracy.
But I've not tested this theory.
I chose to anneal then size because I want as little string back as possible after sizing (for both neck interference and shoulder bump). The amount of work hardening done by the sizing process after annealing isn't enough to be concerned over, especially since I anneal after every firing.
If I anneal after sizing, I'm dealing with brass that has been work hardened from the firing process, which increases springback. Even though the sizing of the brass work hardens the brass further, that's not an issue since the annealing is taking place afterwards. But the annealing will not change the dimensions from that sizing process. Of course, one can compensate for that springback and wind up with the dimensions one is after. Then the annealing will certainly provide a more ductile neck with less interference. This is particularly helpful for those who like to jam their bullets and let the lands seat their bullets.
....potential for increased bolt thrust at time of firing due the lube..
Never crossed my mind to be honest. Just got lazy. Not a good reason but it’s truth.
Seems to me some / too much lube on a chambered round intruduces additional variables that *may* affect acccuracy, and / or *could* increase chamber pressures unnecesarily. I don't have any way to test chamber pressure so that's somehwat hypothetical, but logical. But lube on the round in the chamber will affect case expansion and introduce a variable that is easily eliminated by wiping the case. In precision shooting, variables are the enemy of consistent accuracy.
If I'm having trouble extracting rounds from my chamber, I got other problems I shouldn't be solving with case lube. Problems (e.g. over pressure) that *can* be dangerous.
Those are my reasons to hand wipe all the case lube off my precision rounds with 99% isopropyl.
I was being facetious. But I enjoy the responses none the less. I also just wipe them with acetone or alcohol.
While it's a pain in the ass I'll wet tumble with pins for a few hours, resize everything, then tumble again for an hour and get the lube off. Set the cases in a Facebook marketplace special toaster oven at 180ish for an hour to an hour and half depending on how many are in there. They cool pretty quick and then I finish the rest of the process.
Gotcha. Ya never can tell in the internets world.....lotta crazy ideas out there.....
Yeah, its how your bump up the velocity. Ever heard of dieseling a pellet gun?
I almost never tumble, it's not a fashion show. Been at it for almost 60 years. David
I tumble a couple hundred cases in water with Dawn and a sprinkle of Lemi-shine and stainless steel pins for a couple hours in my Thumler Model B, then put them in a Dillon separator and hand-tumble them until they're not dripping anymore. Then they get sprayed with lube, resized and decapped, then into fine Lizard (dry) media for a half hour to take the lube off. I don't worry about a bit of grit in the flash hole, anyone who knows anything about primers knows if there's something in the flash hole it will be blasted out of there at about 30,000 fps.
You guys who are having trouble with corn cob stuck in flash holes or primer pockets are using the wrong size media, or adding way too much polishing compound.
Finely ground corn cob treated with the Dillon case polish does the job and does not get stuck in flash holes. It doesn’t generate dust either, unlike walnut shell.
Of course tumbling after loading solves that problem too. I do it either way depending what I’m loading and how. Nothing wrong with leaving lube on sometimes either, other than being messy and attracting dust, but it shoots fine.
The “increased bolt thrust” thing with lubed ammo is based in ignorance. That’s not how that works.
Finely ground corn cob treated with the Dillon case polish does the job and does not get stuck in flash holes. It doesn’t generate dust either, unlike walnut shell.
Of course tumbling after loading solves that problem too. I do it either way depending what I’m loading and how. Nothing wrong with leaving lube on sometimes either, other than being messy and attracting dust, but it shoots fine.
The “increased bolt thrust” thing with lubed ammo is based in ignorance. That’s not how that works.
If you want the Frankford rotary, get the 4 roller one-the full kit. They work better and last longer. I have over 4500 cases through mine. Most wet tumblers will leak a bit from time to time. Not much though. Put it on the floor when you use it, not on your work bench. The Hornady cleaner works great for gun parts and small case batchs-50 or so. BTW, why don't you want to use pins? They do a good job of cleaning, shining, and removing crud for the primer pockets. A squirt of Dawn and a scoop of Lemon Shine with pins does wonders. If you get the Frankford tumbler full kit, you get the filter, clear covers, and pins with it. Well worth the cost. I use a case dryer oven after wet cleaning. I have a Hornady. There are several out there. I can dry 250-350 at a time. Just remember to rinse the cleaned cases well and look for stuck pins before drying. Pick up a hand crank sifter tumbler to remove the water and pins before you put them in the dryerStuck pins are not really a problem though. Consider. Keep em small.
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Never used any pins . I de prime ,tumble ,use a air compressor and nozzle to blow out any extra media .Then I use alcohol and lanolin spray to lube ,size and bump ,mandrel on some calibers measure and trim as necessary.Wipe off lube with brake clean and towels.Prime and load .
Deprime
Wet tumble with pins, very hot water 1/2 tsp Lemishine and teaspoon or there about dawn for 45 mins throw in pan into oven 195 for 30 mins
Check pockets look for damage
Anneal (Annie)
Resize and trim
Wet tumble in very hot water for 30 minutes without pins and a teaspoon of dawn and 1/2 tsp lemishine which is not really needed (the stuff is cheap so) to remove lanolin dry for 30 minutes in oven again
Prime and load
I agree with above post. I tumble in corn cob media then I use unique lube to size then wipe clean with micro fiber soaked with isopropyl alcohol and then wipe with dry micro fiber cloth. Check overall length of brass. Clean primer pockets and bevel and debur on frankford case prep station and inspect for anything in primer pocket
It goes with the territory along with setting cols developing loads an reaping benefits like this five shot group developed from no data from Berger for the new 153.5gr creedmoor load of 43.4 sc4831 col 2899 let it hang out!
Attachments
Most any sizing lube will state it does not effect the load, so lube is desired in my way of thinking. I first frankfort hand de-prime, ut for 10 min to clean internals better, rinse hot water and shake of most water and "dry" tumbler 5 hours to remove my magic marker noting load variance, check primer pockets with uniformer, check pockets are clean or clean, lube and size, check length, check shoulder set back, prime, mark with magic marker, load, seat, shoot and record and compare labradar data. Obviously in a load development stage.
the more yo do, the more you are going to want to get better. i recommend you get a Frankfort wet tumbler. stay away from the pins, except for large caliber openings as they stick in the bottom of the smaller cartridges and break your decaying pins. use the Frankfort brass solution or go to the grocery store and buy some Lemishine from the dishwashing detergent isle. i use both, but also put a couple pumps of Dawn foam and run for 90 minutes. you will have new brass. if you dont de-prime first, sooner or later, you will decide to wash them all again before reloading and reprising. The food dehydrator is really good. Frankfort makes a really good one and i fill it and run it at about 135F for a couple hours. wash the cleaner off, well, with hot tap water before putting in the dryer and use a hand operated, media separate like the Frankfort or Hornady unit, to get as much water out as possible first. drying is shorter and you are much happier.
lastly, i almost always toss the finished (and Crimped) cartridges back into the vibratory unit with walnut shell media with brass polish (from Frankford, again) to clean off the gooey die lubricant that is miserable after it ages any.
Understand why you dislike the dry tumble. I dry rumble for about 15 mins after I’ve loaded the rounds. I lube so the case mouth stays dry.
They are referring to the lube not affecting the powder and/or primer, not how it may affect the case/chamber relationship. Every reloading manual I have read states that lube should not be left on the case. If leaving lube on the case wouldn't make any difference then the manuals would mention that. And cases with lube on them won't pick up dust...they will pick up DIRT. That's the last thing I want in my chamber.
I've been soaking in a tub of denatured alcohol to remove lube. With 2 containers, a funnel, and a strainer, it works excellent to remove lube and dries quickly. I have 50 BMG soaking right now. Only takes a few minutes. Many other solvents will work, depends on what you can get cheapest and what you want to mess with. Isopropyl may be best but I can't find it bulk.
Ammo that I production load on my Dillon gets manually deprimed, trimmed, chamfered, primer pocket uniformed (once) using the Frankford power tool. Then annealed, wet washed with Southern Shine (won’t get into flash holes) and Frankford cleaner (or detergent) and dried in Frankford dryer. These cases are kept indefinitely in large clean plastic jugs with the top closed. When I’m ready to load in quantity a 12x18x3 stainless tray with one thin layer of cases get misted with Hornady One Shot or equivalent, shaken gently to roll the cases and misted again (or more), until I’m convinced the case can not stick in the sizing die. If I’ve adjusted the sizing die within the last few hours I know the first case from this batch won’t encounter a dry die, otherwise I’ll mist the die interior before I mount the tool head, or run a couple of well lubed cases. Only enough lube to facilitate sizing (full length with a neck die insert) then I’ll get into rhythm and when the low case alarm goes off repeat the case lube routine in my Stainless Steel tray. It took a bit of fooling around to get just the right combination of resize button and neck die to only change neck dimensions just enough to get 0.002-0.003 of neck tension on loaded rounds, but that is the key to successfully dry sizing the neck inside diameter without pulling neck concentricity out of alignment.
Ok mow to answer your question, and no doubt ignite a firestorm of comments …
The loaded ammo coming off the press is pretty well lubed on only the outside. To remove the lube I dry vibrate the loaded ammo in corn or rice or whatever absorbs the lube, leaves the cases bright and shiny and doesn’t cost much. I can do a batch of 100 in about 5 minutes and in my big Dillon vibrating tumbler 100 of 5.56 loaded rounds remain comfortably isolated from each other. I just leave the top open and fish out a couple every few minutes until I think they are ready to come out.
From there another large clean plastic jar keeps the ammo pristine.
Ok mow to answer your question, and no doubt ignite a firestorm of comments …
The loaded ammo coming off the press is pretty well lubed on only the outside. To remove the lube I dry vibrate the loaded ammo in corn or rice or whatever absorbs the lube, leaves the cases bright and shiny and doesn’t cost much. I can do a batch of 100 in about 5 minutes and in my big Dillon vibrating tumbler 100 of 5.56 loaded rounds remain comfortably isolated from each other. I just leave the top open and fish out a couple every few minutes until I think they are ready to come out.
From there another large clean plastic jar keeps the ammo pristine.
I have heard speculated that bumbling loaded ammo could make the "powder" go to actual powder and increase burn rate. Not sure if this was pure speculation or if there is empirical truth behind it.
My 204, 5.56, 308 and 6.5 CM 1/2 MIA loads don’t seem to care.
After all, it’s only a few minutes. Probably not as intense as factory ammo being shipped.
I only wet tumble with hot water and dawn dish soap. 30 min for dirty brass and 15 min to remove lube (lanolin/alcohol, also use imperial wax). I tumble them back and forth in a towel before putting them on a baking sheet at 200-300 degrees. The brass comes out of the oven when the tumbler is done. I kept reducing the times until I settled on this and I can't see a reason to tumble longer.
No, it doesn’t. That’s an old Fudd wive’s tale that some of the gun shop commandos like to repeat, but it’s false. In fact there’s a lot of empirical evidence showing that it is not an issue.
Personally I’ve left ammo in the tumbler for 24 hours straight to see what happened, and there was no change in the loads or visual affect to the powder.
Also, for batches of ammo loaded on a progressive press a lot of pistol competition shooters, myself included, tumble the loaded ammo partly because it helps identify any rounds with a loose primer pocket. On something like a Dillon 650 those can be hard to catch, so it’s a fairly common practice. It doesn’t hurt the powder in the ammo.
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My cases get lubed with lanolin, works great but tough to remove so I use
a teaspoon of tide liquid detergent in an ultrasonic cleaner for 5 minutes
and they come out de-lubed.
a teaspoon of tide liquid detergent in an ultrasonic cleaner for 5 minutes
and they come out de-lubed.
I mean, the factories tumble their ammo to clean it pre-packaging. They certainly don’t clean all that ammo by hand.
Another one I’ve heard is that tumbling ammo might set off the primers, with of course all the subsequent gasps by the safety nazis and “oh how scary!” responses. But, news flash, that doesn’t happen either.
I clean my lanolin lube of with acetone. Fast and self dries. Can be used several times before replacing.
Personally I need a lot more than 5 minutes, more like 30 min - 1 hour, but yeah. No worries about powder or primer issues in a typical vibrating tumbler.
If it’s empty brass, just choose the right corn cob (NOT walnut) so it doesn’t stick in flash holes. If it’s loaded ammo, again some corn cob media and Dillon case polish will fix clean off the lube and shine the ammo too. Win win.
Eventually the media gets gunked with lube, but adding a little mineral spirits and more case polish takes care of it.
One caveat, I think someone else mentioned, is that BTHP / OTM rifle bullets tend to get the tips clogged with media. I have not tested whether it actually matters, but have wondered about the effect. Mostly I just avoid tumbling ammo with those bullets.
I wet rumble but I do my FL resizing first on dirty brass and then put it in the wet tumbler for about 45 minutes and it comes out nice and shiny. Better this way as you don’t have to clean twice. Even running suppressed the brass isn’t that dirty so sizing dirty brass is perfectly fine
Sizing fouled brass is fine. Sizing dirty brass is a different story. Don’t confuse the two.
For a lot of people dirty brass involves something picked up out of the dirt, maybe in a gravel pit or other outdoor shooting area. Mix that dust & dirt with sizing lube and you’ve got a home brew lapping compound, definitely not “fine” for the sizing die. I wouldn’t want a newer reloaded to read your comment and think this was OK.
Of course maybe if you’re one of those who only shoots at a clean range or the brass goes from the rifle straight back in the box, then it doesn’t matter so much, but that’s because your brass is still clean.
Most of my brass cleaning is done for the sake of my sizing dies. After galling my rcbs .223 comp sizer, I don't risk it anymore. Wet tumblers are quick.
This.
I shoot mostly on Florida, where there is sand everywhere. Not putting any dirty (read as sandy) brass in my sizing dies. A quick dry tumble before annealing and sizing and I’m good. I do not need super shiny look at me brass. It’s just not important.
-Wet Tumble (frankford) with Distilled White Vinegar and Dawn
-Lube (I use one shot)
-Size and decap in one step
-Each step with Frankford Arsenal Case trim and prep station
-Ultrasonic clean
-Oven Dry for 15 mins at 190 degrees
-Load ammo and shoot
-Lube (I use one shot)
-Size and decap in one step
-Each step with Frankford Arsenal Case trim and prep station
-Ultrasonic clean
-Oven Dry for 15 mins at 190 degrees
-Load ammo and shoot
Yeah, that.
Make sure there is enough media that the loaded ammo always has a 'buffer' - eg don't overload the media. Only takes a little while to remove most types of sizing lube. In my situation, because I've already wet tumbled with stainless chips the cases are bright and shiny and gooey at the end of the loading process. All I need is clean dry media to absorb the 'gooey' and TaDa!
I dry tumble off the lube and then uniform prime hole. To get media out of case to start, hold against the rim of tumbler and vibrate media out as I take cases out of tumbler.
I simply dry tumble a little after sizing with medium grain rice; never have to worry about lubing the inside of the neck for consistent seating even if I don't cleaning the brass sparkly clean.
I’ve stopped using the ss media unless the cases are well and truly nasty, 1/2tsp lemishine and and a teaspoon of dawn with hot water tumble for 15mins half hour at the most cleans the lube off but leaves the carbon in the neck for the most part 180 deg in the oven for 30-45 mins prime, powder and bullets. It may not be the right way but it works well for me.
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