Fuck me school shooting in Texas

[candyx]

Barricaded suspect protocol? How about a Barricaded Wounded Child Victim Bleeding Out protocol taking precedence?

Usually your dealing with a mentally unstable person who already decided he's checking out after he finishes his work.Your going to have causalities so going as fast as possible to end the shooter will save lives not all lives but most likely reducing the death toll unfortunately if the shooter has gain access into the school.

 

[Grant77]

Maybe its time to follow the training of Russian Special Forces with live ammo so they are ready to go into an active shooter scene.

Oh yeah that worked out really well when they sent speznaz into that theater a few years ago…pumped in “knock out gas” that wound up killing 3/4 of the hostages. Great work

 

[akmike47]

Oh yeah that worked out really well when they sent speznaz into that theater a few years ago…pumped in “knock out gas” that wound up killing 3/4 of the hostages. Great work

That has nothing to do with knowing how a hit on your plates feels...

 

[LawnMM]

Another MMQB that doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground

In another wing of the school, 18-year-old crazed gunman Salvador Ramos had opened fire and ultimately murdered 19 children and two teachers.
Got his kid and wife out of another area of the school?
He said he entered the wing of the school where he knew his daughter was located, and as he searched for her, began “clearing all the classes in her wing,” he told the Times.

Did the shooter do all the killing in another area different from where he was locked in the room he was eventually killed in? That's a critical detail.

The DPS director said in the interview multiple times the incident commander told them to not breach the door. Wait for shields. He said the incident commander felt he was following a “barricaded shooter” doctrine and not “active shooter” doctrine, which in TX is one cop or many move immediately and “shoot until the active shooter is neutralized”. He admitted several times it was a bad call by the incident commander.

Maybe, maybe not. If they didn't have any information suggesting any shooting had occurred in that room, they were following the correct procedure.

Depends if any kids I'm that room we're already hurt, and if they were aware of it.

Barricaded suspect protocol? How about a Barricaded Wounded Child Victim Bleeding Out protocol taking precedence?

Please bring your crystal ball to the next active shooting all the dumb LE guys could really use your assistance.

If they knew there had been shooting in that room, you're completely correct. I've seen other people posting information suggesting otherwise in the last page of this thread.

Depends who knew what and when they knew it. If they knew and stood there heaven help em.

If they didn't know it's a fuckin' tragedy and a shit sandwich but it's not their fault for not having x ray vision or being clairvoyant.

And for the retards saying let the parents run in there... that's incredibly fucking stupid and you're even dumber for suggesting it. A bunch of condition black hysterical people throwing themselves into gunfire and provoking an armed maniac helps nobody and thinking they'd accomplish anything besides getting themselves and more kids killed is equally naive.

It's been established they had upwards of 20 guys inside right outside the room. We call that an inner perimeter.

The outer perimeter makes sure if they have the wrong room he doesn't go running out a side door and escape. Also ensures parents don't go charging in and getting themselves killed when they're frantic with emotion... and understandably so. However, they're not thinking clearly, and that's why they're not allowed to go running in to 'help'

Whether the guys inside made the right call or not we'll know soon. Sounds like command trying to throw them under the bus at the moment but if they didn't know anyone inside had been hurt because the devastation happened in another part of the school, they were proceeding correctly till he decided to start again.

Key questions:

Where were ALL 18 kids killed, and when?

Were they killed in different parts of the school?

Did the team in the hallway know there were injured/dying kids in the room?

Were there injured/dying kids in the room before whatever precipitated the breech and final shootout?

Were they communicating with the shooter?

What sparked the eventual breech of the door and termination of the asshole?

 

[Snaz]

Ill place this nice little tidbit of info in this thread as well.

WATCH: Texas Police Spox on Live TV Confirmed Cops Went In for Their Own Kids During Uvalde Shooting

Texas Department Public Safety spokesman Lt. Christopher Olivarez confirmed to a reporter during a live shot that police officers went into Robb Elementary School to get their own children during the massacre. Amid outrage over reports that frantic families who complained about police inaction...

www.mediaite.com

JFC

 

[UKDslayer]

Over $2M Raised for Family of Teacher Killed in Texas Shooting

Over two million dollars has been raised for the family of Joe and Irma Garcia, a teacher who was killed during the shooting in Texas.

www.breitbart.com

 

[RSTX]

I wonder how difficult it would be to lock the doors of school rooms when class starts.

FWIW...I just retired from teaching (today!!!) at a 5A high school in Texas. Our door policy from admin was "Propped and Locked", meaning it could be propped open if desired, but you could easily/quickly kick the door stop out of the way and the door would quickly shut and be locked from the hallway. I usually closed my door once the tardy bell rang. If a kid/teacher/whoever wanted in they had to knock and be allowed in.

Finally, if you think I was "indoctrinating" or brainwashing any of the students, feel free to get your teaching cert and do it your way. A lot of us are gun owners and we are just doing a job that is difficult. The kids don't care, the parents don't want to be bothered, and society has labeled teachers as "groomers." Yeah, if I could groom a kid I would have them behave in class, not cuss me out and threaten me, and they would do their pitifully easy assignments. There is no indoctrination or grooming going on. The kids are already gone. In one of my classes last year, 3/4 of the students had ankle monitors on. They were in the system and were ok with it. They were institutionalized. I heard a lot of stories about how they enjoyed their time in juvi. That was not a punishment. Street cred in school was all that mattered.

I think I'll go fishing on the first day of school next year. Piss on em! /Rant over

 

[deersniper]

Another MMQB that doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground

Did the shooter do all the killing in another area different from where he was locked in the room he was eventually killed in? That's a critical detail.

Maybe, maybe not. If they didn't have any information suggesting any shooting had occurred in that room, they were following the correct procedure.

Depends if any kids I'm that room we're already hurt, and if they were aware of it.

Please bring your crystal ball to the next active shooting all the dumb LE guys could really use your assistance.

If they knew there had been shooting in that room, you're completely correct. I've seen other people posting information suggesting otherwise in the last page of this thread.

Depends who knew what and when they knew it. If they knew and stood there heaven help em.

If they didn't know it's a fuckin' tragedy and a shit sandwich but it's not their fault for not having x ray vision or being clairvoyant.

And for the retards saying let the parents run in there... that's incredibly fucking stupid and you're even dumber for suggesting it. A bunch of condition black hysterical people throwing themselves into gunfire and provoking an armed maniac helps nobody and thinking they'd accomplish anything besides getting themselves and more kids killed is equally naive.

It's been established they had upwards of 20 guys inside right outside the room. We call that an inner perimeter.

The outer perimeter makes sure if they have the wrong room he doesn't go running out a side door and escape. Also ensures parents don't go charging in and getting themselves killed when they're frantic with emotion... and understandably so. However, they're not thinking clearly, and that's why they're not allowed to go running in to 'help'

Whether the guys inside made the right call or not we'll know soon. Sounds like command trying to throw them under the bus at the moment but if they didn't know anyone inside had been hurt because the devastation happened in another part of the school, they were proceeding correctly till he decided to start again.

Key questions:

Where were ALL 18 kids killed, and when?

Were they killed in different parts of the school?

Did the team in the hallway know there were injured/dying kids in the room?

Were they communicating with the shooter?

What sparked the eventual breech of the door and termination of the asshole?

SMFH making excuses for those cowards.

Immediately in always the answer fir school shooters

 

[Rocketvapor]

Students made 911 calls stating room number they were in.
Communication between students and the cops.
It was a double classroom with a connecting passage.
I think the cops KNEW where he was.

Police told the Border Squad to stand down, until they didn't.
They KNEW which room to hit.

 

[TexPatriot]

There was a youtube of The Five where Judge Jeanine and others said no way anyone, in this case the cops, would prevent them from trying to rescue their kids from a killer in a school.

The mood on the show was grave and even Greg Gutfeld looked pissed. it was definitely not a Thank a Police Officer Day moment.

I can't find it so it may have been censored.

 

[Slash0311]

Students made 911 calls stating room number they were in.
Communication between students and the cops.
It was a double classroom with a connecting passage.
I think the cops KNEW where he was.

Police told the Border Squad to stand down, until they didn't.
They KNEW which room to hit.

So that right there tells me that some kids were alive once the shit head was in the room. That certainly could justify treating it as a barricaded gunman with hostages.

The question is at what point were the shots stopped and restarted in relation to the officers being stacked at the door. I have not seen a time line on that exact thing yet.

 

[Rocketvapor]

A dozen or more inside the school had the hallway locked down. Shooter wasn't going anywhere.
Assuming they knew exactly which room he was in, every idle prick should have been getting everyone out of the other areas (somewhat safe areas). Out and across the field.
@Slash0311
The timeline keeps getting "refined" and I agree they didn't actually have "Eyes" in the classroom to know all details.
Supposedly there were about a hundred rounds shot in the first few minutes he was in the room then a pause.
There are CCTV videos "they" are reviewing. I assume that's how they are giving the timing of shots to the media.
What they leak about the data will determine public opinion.
Of course the leaks will go to twitter or the lame stream media.

 

[The King]

FWIW...I just retired from teaching (today!!!) at a 5A high school in Texas. Our door policy from admin was "Propped and Locked", meaning it could be propped open if desired, but you could easily/quickly kick the door stop out of the way and the door would quickly shut and be locked from the hallway. I usually closed my door once the tardy bell rang. If a kid/teacher/whoever wanted in they had to knock and be allowed in.

Finally, if you think I was "indoctrinating" or brainwashing any of the students, feel free to get your teaching cert and do it your way. A lot of us are gun owners and we are just doing a job that is difficult. The kids don't care, the parents don't want to be bothered, and society has labeled teachers as "groomers." Yeah, if I could groom a kid I would have them behave in class, not cuss me out and threaten me, and they would do their pitifully easy assignments. There is no indoctrination or grooming going on. The kids are already gone. In one of my classes last year, 3/4 of the students had ankle monitors on. They were in the system and were ok with it. They were institutionalized. I heard a lot of stories about how they enjoyed their time in juvi. That was not a punishment. Street cred in school was all that mattered.

I think I'll go fishing on the first day of school next year. Piss on em! /Rant over

When my kids went to school in CO we had:
a) signs that said if you are in illegal immigrant, you could call a free shit hotline where you and your parents would get free housing/jobs/health care/food.
b) There was a health class "fair" in the hallway. Every single project in the "fair" was lgbtq+ related.

So maybe Texas dodged that bullet - the grooming/indoctrination bullet. Colorado ate the muzzle...

 

[db2000]

So that right there tells me that some kids were alive once the shit head was in the room. That certainly could justify treating it as a barricaded gunman with hostages.

The question is at what point were the shots stopped and restarted in relation to the officers being stacked at the door. I have not seen a time line on that exact thing yet.

Million dollar question. Director said they’re looking into it and wouldn’t say if the incident commander was getting real time communication from 911. Same with shot timing.

 

[LawnMM]

So that right there tells me that some kids were alive once the shit head was in the room. That certainly could justify treating it as a barricaded gunman with hostages.

The question is at what point were the shots stopped and restarted in relation to the officers being stacked at the door. I have not seen a time line on that exact thing yet.

Did it all occur in those same two rooms? There was mention of a different part of the school

 

[FWoo45]

It was an adjoined classroom(s) why not kick in both doors and smoke the guy? Even if they thought they could talk him down (stupid and wrong) there were kids bleeding out. Smoke the guy through a window, something. Everything is pointing towards inept cowards.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Looks like he shot into windows of other rooms as he walked past the school, entered, engaged in the hallway then entered the double classroom.
Doesn't matter if kids were shot in other areas. THEY had him pinned down. No place to go. Any place he was not, was relatively safe.

 

[DocRDS]

I just watched a timeline update.

Normally I am very supportive of police.

I would support and vote to convict all 19 officers and the OIC of murder for their inaction and violation of active shooter policy. I had to shut off the video I was so enraged.






If you want to talk about my MMQB--take it up with this guy--I'll stack his creds against anyone (not the interview, FF to about 3 mins)

 

[MK20]

How is SWAT not rolling with explosive breaching equipment these days? Seriously? It wouldn't be too hard to have the "Explosive Breaching Kit" at the precinct and if there is a school or hostage situation an officer is detailed to get it out there.

 

[79steeler]

Bottom line is that the shooter was outside for 12 minutes. What the fuck is the response time for that towns PD to an active shooter? Longer than 12 minutes evidently epic failure. Shooter should have been engaged outside the school. Epic failure number 2 teacher or staff member having door blocked open circumventing the schools security measures and allowing shooter to gain access. That staff member should be fired immediately and charged with 21 counts of manslaughter period.

Police chief should have already resigned and the individual who was in charge on the ground to stand down and wait for SWAT should also resign. Every officer in the town who did nothing should probably consider another line of work.

Getting to a shooting scene that has been over for 40 minutes dressed up in your tactical shit to do nothing is a waste of time and resources. Looking cool on the news in your tactic cool shit is frankly embarrassingl, when there is 19 dead kids inside. Patrol officers should have already had a vest on, or been able to throw a plate carrier on that's in the trunk with an AR 15 and been in that building within 7 minutes of the call going out. Complete failure of response time and equipment. My alarm at my house goes off accidentally and cops are at my house in 6 minutes. Active shooter at a school or shots fired call and a cop should have been at that school and shot that fuckhead within 7 minutes.

Better yet from this day forward every school has a kitted up veteran who has been vetted by local LE, front and back of the school. A visible cop car out front would help as well. Get fences up with one way in and out period everyone goes thru a metal detector.

This issue should have been solved 10 years ago. Embarrassing loss of life here.

 

[Grant77]

Another MMQB that doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground

Did the shooter do all the killing in another area different from where he was locked in the room he was eventually killed in? That's a critical detail.

Maybe, maybe not. If they didn't have any information suggesting any shooting had occurred in that room, they were following the correct procedure.

Depends if any kids I'm that room we're already hurt, and if they were aware of it.

Please bring your crystal ball to the next active shooting all the dumb LE guys could really use your assistance.

If they knew there had been shooting in that room, you're completely correct. I've seen other people posting information suggesting otherwise in the last page of this thread.

Depends who knew what and when they knew it. If they knew and stood there heaven help em.

If they didn't know it's a fuckin' tragedy and a shit sandwich but it's not their fault for not having x ray vision or being clairvoyant.

And for the retards saying let the parents run in there... that's incredibly fucking stupid and you're even dumber for suggesting it. A bunch of condition black hysterical people throwing themselves into gunfire and provoking an armed maniac helps nobody and thinking they'd accomplish anything besides getting themselves and more kids killed is equally naive.

It's been established they had upwards of 20 guys inside right outside the room. We call that an inner perimeter.

The outer perimeter makes sure if they have the wrong room he doesn't go running out a side door and escape. Also ensures parents don't go charging in and getting themselves killed when they're frantic with emotion... and understandably so. However, they're not thinking clearly, and that's why they're not allowed to go running in to 'help'

Whether the guys inside made the right call or not we'll know soon. Sounds like command trying to throw them under the bus at the moment but if they didn't know anyone inside had been hurt because the devastation happened in another part of the school, they were proceeding correctly till he decided to start again.

Key questions:

Where were ALL 18 kids killed, and when?

Were they killed in different parts of the school?

Did the team in the hallway know there were injured/dying kids in the room?

Were there injured/dying kids in the room before whatever precipitated the breech and final shootout?

Were they communicating with the shooter?

What sparked the eventual breech of the door and termination of the asshole?

All excellent points

 

[theLBC]

When my kids went to school in CO we had:
a) signs that said if you are in illegal immigrant, you could call a free shit hotline where you and your parents would get free housing/jobs/health care/food.
b) There was a health class "fair" in the hallway. Every single project in the "fair" was lgbtq+ related.

So maybe Texas dodged that bullet - the grooming/indoctrination bullet. Colorado ate the muzzle...

there are people in texas that can barely afford daycare whose job is to arrange for free daycare for illegal immigrant mothers.

 

[The King]

If I had just made a decision in my career thats going to be remembered in the same paragraphs as Waco and Ruby Ridge...I hope a friend would remind me of a history lesson we once all knew...

 

[LawnMM]

Looks like he shot into windows of other rooms as he walked past the school, entered, engaged in the hallway then entered the double classroom.
Doesn't matter if kids were shot in other areas. THEY had him pinned down. No place to go. Any place he was not, was relatively safe.

It matters where the injured/dying were in relation to where he was barricaded as it may explain the delay and whether or not they made a good call at the time or effed up royally with their response

How is SWAT not rolling with explosive breaching equipment these days? Seriously? It wouldn't be too hard to have the "Explosive Breaching Kit" at the precinct and if there is a school or hostage situation an officer is detailed to get it out there.

It's an advanced and super difficult/ expensive and tedious certification to attain. I work for a pretty big department and for a long time out SWAT team had to call the bomb squad to do it.

It wasn't until a while back they finally got to attend a school and get certified to do it themselves. You have to know your shit about over pressure, minimum safe distance, explosives have stipulations from ATF on storage requirements, huge hassle.

Not everyone has access to it. It's not something you just walk into a police supply store and say "hey gimme 3 breaching charges and a couple AR mags for today"

 

[Rocketvapor]

I think there has been enough CREDIBLE info (after several corrections) that the KEY points have been covered.
EVERY area that he was NOT, should have been quickly evacuated. I hope they don't find bodies in the other wings of the school.
Not being an explosives expert I doubt you would blow a door that might have wounded kids stacked up as a shield without EYES.
Not sure about who unlocked door or if the squad breached. When they finally disobeyed local orders they went in and took action.
At this stage of the game (current info) the cops knew they had dead and wounded and scared kids in that classroom with an armed shooter.

 

[MK20]

It matters where the injured/dying were in relation to where he was barricaded as it may explain the delay and whether or not they made a good call at the time or effed up royally with their response

It's an advanced and super difficult/ expensive and tedious certification to attain. I work for a pretty big department and for a long time out SWAT team had to call the bomb squad to do it.

It wasn't until a while back they finally got to attend a school and get certified to do it themselves. You have to know your shit about over pressure, minimum safe distance, explosives have stipulations from ATF on storage requirements, huge hassle.

Not everyone has access to it. It's not something you just walk into a police supply store and say "hey gimme 3 breaching charges and a couple AR mags for today"

I am well aware as I did my share of explosives breaching and building charges. I know that the regs make it hard. What I meant is that maybe we should refine those. I know if my kid was in a room with an active shooter I would damn sure want an explosive breach on a heavy locked door.

 

[Slash0311]

I'll just throw this out.

I appreciate the civil tones the last several posts mostly this page have had. We can all agree to disagree and exchange info from our perspectives. I'm happy to keep a good discussion going as long as its civil.

 

[Rocketvapor]

We do no good playing Monday morning quarter back. What we say or ideas we come up with will have no impact on the past event.
Even though this is the PIT, it's been halfway civil.
(for those that haven't ignored me )

I will say I'm surprised of the minimal cell phone video coverage. Thought that was the thing now.

 

[wade2big]

Why would anyone believe anything coming from the state of TX and its covid enforcers and ticket writers. Abbott lied from the beginning. TDPS lied from the beginning. The city of Uvalde, their police, and the school lied from the beginning. The Feds did as well. The official story won’t be the truth either. Its best if you never believe anything or anyone in a government position. The truth will be much worse than admitted.

 

[LawnMM]

I am well aware as I did my share of explosives breaching and building charges. I know that the regs make it hard. What I meant is that maybe we should refine those. I know if my kid was in a room with an active shooter I would damn sure want an explosive breach on a heavy locked door.

That would be great. I'm all for removing road blocks that make getting the right gear in the hands of people that need it easier.

It's funny you mention this because I was talking about getting into a room like that at a school through a solid core door locked into a metal frame where a bad guy is likely to start shooting as soon as the first boot meets the door...

I said the same thing; you'd almost have to blow the door in two and off the hinges to have any chance of getting inside fast enough. Trying to boot your way in? Good luck

I'll just throw this out.

I appreciate the civil tones the last several posts have had. We can all agree to disagree and exchange info from our perspectives. I'm happy to keep a good discussion going as long as its civil.

Same. I don't even mind heated debate as long as we don't start with the bashing and name calling, particularly before all the deets are known. Kids are an emotional issue, we all get it, but that's why you have to be cold and calculating.

If you let your emotions take over it goes from shit sandwich to epic clusterfuck.

ETA - I just watched some comments from a dude with a shit ton of experience and his message was spot on. It's not the time to blame shift, it doesn't help anything.

Help the families, come together and support them because they really fucking need it. Focus your anger where it belongs, on the piece of shit that did it.

 

[Rocketvapor]

BUT, be better prepared for the next one.
We want to see data, blame, but learn from this one.

We will never be able to spot all the crazies in time, but can we delay entry with minimal effort?
or
How do you get an active shooter out of a school?
Don't make it easy for him to get in.

 

[Grant77]

That has nothing to do with knowing how a hit on your plates feels...

Gotcha, misread it initially

 

[candyx]

No reason to beat a dead horse of what should of or could of been done , question is can we learn to do better . Parents should bring this up at their local school board meetings to check what is in place if this should happen where you live. Next question is do we have a right to save our own children during this event like this if you have the capabilities instead of leaving it up to others who might not have the same conviction you have about your children......

 

[Grant77]

That would be great. I'm all for removing road blocks that make getting the right gear in the hands of people that need it easier.

It's funny you mention this because I was talking about getting into a room like that at a school through a solid core door locked into a metal frame where a bad guy is likely to start shooting as soon as the first boot meets the door...

I said the same thing; you'd almost have to blow the door in two and off the hinges to have any chance of getting inside fast enough. Trying to boot your way in? Good luck

Same. I don't even mind heated debate as long as we don't start with the bashing and name calling, particularly before all the deets are known. Kids are an emotional issue, we all get it, but that's why you have to be cold and calculating.

If you let your emotions take over it goes from shit sandwich to epic clusterfuck.

ETA - I just watched some comments from a dude with a shit ton of experience and his message was spot on. It's not the time to blame shift, it doesn't help anything.

Help the families, come together and support them because they really fucking need it. Focus your anger where it belongs, on the piece of shit that did it.

All very good points, especially about kids in danger hitting all the most dangerous emotional buttons at the worst possible time (as in a parent on scene).
I have three little girls all under 8yo, so this could’ve been their school…and that just hits way too close to home.

Shootings at colleges or workplaces or grocery stores are horrible enough, but there’s at least a CHANCE to fight back or jump out a window or just run.
But these little ones, fuck…they’d just huddle in a corner crying for mommy and daddy waiting to get slaughtered.
Breaks my fucking heart to think of all those parents who aren’t tucking in their little ones tonight like I am.
God bless them and God give those parents the strength to make it though another day.

 

[UKDslayer]

One more time. We don't know what was happening as the officers stacked at the door. Shots being fired inside is an all bets off and go through the door time. No shots inside you treat it like a barricaded suspect.

Apparently kids still making 911 calls from inside while police were outside the door...

 

[st1650]

another coincidence?

 

[UKDslayer]

No reason to beat a dead horse of what should of or could of been done , question is can we learn to do better .

I think it could, and should have waited until the kids are laid to rest. But, blame needs to go whomever is involved, be it lies that the original Uvalde PD told, or shortcomings in protocol, because there is an attack our 2A because of these.

 

[MadDuner]

I think it could, and should have waited until the kids are laid to rest. But, blame needs to go whomever is involved, be it lies that the original Uvalde PD told, or shortcomings in protocol, because there is an attack our 2A because of these.

....and there could be a copy cat situation on next Tuesday also.

All lessons need to be learned and policy and or training adjusted like yesterday.

 

[LawnMM]

Next question is do we have a right to save our own children during this event like this if you have the capabilities instead of leaving it up to others who might not have the same conviction you have about your children......

I appreciate the enthusiasm and you asked in a civil tone so I'm going to answer the same way knowing ahead of time you won't like it.

No.

It's an active crime in progress, crime scene, and it's a crime of the worst order...homicide.

You absolutely do NOT have the right to go charging in on your own. Nor should you. Recognize your own limitations in a situation like that.

You aren't thinking clearly, period. Unless you have MIL/LE experience you don't know WTF you're doing.

You're likely to get yourself shot if you get in there and some tac team of cops sees you working your way down the halls with a gun.

That qualified immunity thing people dislike about Cops so much? It's only a bad thing when Cops are abusing their power.

It protects them from frivolous law suits if they're following the law and policy and despite their best efforts, shit goes bad anyway.

You as a citizen don't have it. You go charging in there, maybe you even save your own kid. Same scenario right... in the process of kicking in the door and saving your kid and 10 others he shoots two before you get him.

Hold on and buckle up because those two sets of parents of the dead kids aren't gonna give a FUCK what your intentions were and neither will every scumbag $1000/hr attorney offering to represent them for free just to get the publicity.

That's just the civil side. You could be charged criminally for interfering with the active police operation. Heaven help you if you get a couple cops killed they'll come after you like nobody's business. They could charge you in the deaths of the kids and try to hold you responsible. Politicians don't wanna get blamed and you best believe they all look for a scapegoat after something like this, don't give 'em one.

Not saying any of it is right or I agree or that it's what I think should happen, but it's some of what COULD happen.

If it was a mall or something and my wife or kid was inside as much as I'd want to be part of it I'd leave it to other guys on my team, department, the other jurisdiction, whatever.

My abilities are beyond compromised when it's my loved ones on the line. When I don't have a loved one inside I can think cooly and calmly about how best to get the innocents out and turn the bad guys face into mashed potatoes.

Recognize your own limitations in a scenario like that.

 

[BytorJr]

No reason to beat a dead horse of what should of or could of been done , question is can we learn to do better . Parents should bring this up at their local school board meetings to check what is in place if this should happen where you live. Next question is do we have a right to save our own children during this event like this if you have the capabilities instead of leaving it up to others who might not have the same conviction you have about your children......

This is a great point. Though I'm kind of at a mindset of "well, I'd rather risk death saving my child than worry about having an arrest record."

I will say, the mother who got handcuffed, then released and snuck back in and got her kids out (and I hope others) is the defintion of what a PARENT should be - she knew the risks, she went in anyway - protect your children at all costs. We almost never see that anymore where life has become cheap, abortions are how the left treat the unborn (and now I guess the born) and by defintion don't value children - but this woman did what any other animal in the animal kingdom would do, protected her offspring at her own peril. There is a GIGANTIC lesson for young parents right there.

I'm still having a hard time that in TX some woman was arrested for running her hair salon during COVID and here people were told to stand down (and at least one handcuffed) trying to save their children. Lot's of moral and ethical questions for Texas LE (and other states/agencies as well). Just my 0.02. I realize this failure doesn't represent all departments, but something tells me based on recent events this is more of a problem than we'd like to believe.


@LawnMM, you bring valid points and I won't argue that (though I just kind of did...LOL). EPIC fail by Law Enforcement and as a result we're almost sure to lose our rights.

 

[wade2big]

I appreciate the enthusiasm and you asked in a civil tone so I'm going to answer the same way knowing ahead of time you won't like it.

No.

It's an active crime in progress, crime scene, and it's a crime of the worst order...homicide.

You absolutely do NOT have the right to go charging in on your own. Nor should you. Recognize your own limitations in a situation like that.

You aren't thinking clearly, period. Unless you have MIL/LE experience you don't know WTF you're doing.

You're likely to get yourself shot if you get in there and some tac team of cops sees you working your way down the halls with a gun.

That qualified immunity thing people dislike about Cops so much? It's only a bad thing when Cops are abusing their power.

It protects them from frivolous law suits if they're following the law and policy and despite their best efforts, shit goes bad anyway.

You as a citizen don't have it. You go charging in there, maybe you even save your own kid. Same scenario right... in the process of kicking in the door and saving your kid and 10 others he shoots two before you get him.

Hold on and buckle up because those two sets of parents of the dead kids aren't gonna give a FUCK what your intentions were and neither will every scumbag $1000/hr attorney offering to represent them for free just to get the publicity.

That's just the civil side. You could be charged criminally for interfering with the active police operation. Heaven help you if you get a couple cops killed they'll come after you like nobody's business. They could charge you in the deaths of the kids and try to hold you responsible. Politicians don't wanna get blamed and you best believe they all look for a scapegoat after something like this, don't give 'em one.

Not saying any of it is right or I agree or that it's what I think should happen, but it's some of what COULD happen.

If it was a mall or something and my wife or kid was inside as much as I'd want to be part of it I'd leave it to other guys on my team, department, the other jurisdiction, whatever.

My abilities are beyond compromised when it's my loved ones on the line. When I don't have a loved one inside I can think cooly and calmly about how best to get the innocents out and turn the bad guys face into mashed potatoes.

Recognize your own limitations in a scenario like that.

I’m from the government and I’m here to help.

 

[Longshot231]

No reason to beat a dead horse of what should of or could of been done , question is can we learn to do better . Parents should bring this up at their local school board meetings to check what is in place if this should happen where you live. Next question is do we have a right to save our own children during this event like this if you have the capabilities instead of leaving it up to others who might not have the same conviction you have about your children......

It's time to rethink home-schooling for some parents.

 

[candyx]

It's time to rethink home-schooling for some parents.

Yes so some moron doesn't try to teach your son he's really a girl or your daughter is really a boy. Fuck the public school system.

 

[TexPatriot]

 

[candyx]

Looks like the dude's muzzle brake is stuck in the grizzle.........

 

[candyx]

Gravy and biscuits hidden side effect.

 

[UKDslayer]

 

[Grant77]

This is a great point. Though I'm kind of at a mindset of "well, I'd rather risk death saving my child than worry about having an arrest record."

I will say, the mother who got handcuffed, then released and snuck back in and got her kids out (and I hope others) is the defintion of what a PARENT should be - she knew the risks, she went in anyway - protect your children at all costs. We almost never see that anymore where life has become cheap, abortions are how the left treat the unborn (and now I guess the born) and by defintion don't value children - but this woman did what any other animal in the animal kingdom would do, protected her offspring at her own peril. There is a GIGANTIC lesson for young parents right there.

I'm still having a hard time that in TX some woman was arrested for running her hair salon during COVID and here people were told to stand down (and at least one handcuffed) trying to save their children. Lot's of moral and ethical questions for Texas LE (and other states/agencies as well). Just my 0.02. I realize this failure doesn't represent all departments, but something tells me based on recent events this is more of a problem than we'd like to believe.


@LawnMM, you bring valid points and I won't argue that (though I just kind of did...LOL). EPIC fail by Law Enforcement and as a result we're almost sure to lose our rights.

See LawnMM’s spot-on post right above your dipshittery one.
As much as you want to somehow pull abortion into this tragic event, it just makes you look like a fucking moron. Left, Right, or Center don’t mean a goddamn thing when it comes to loving your kids, how much you love your kids, or what you’d do to protect your kids…so do us all a favor and don’t take a giant steaming dump on a conversation otherwise focused on what did/could/or may have gone tragically wrong and led to so many innocent deaths.

Is there some Superman-savior-bullshit being spewed on here? Absolutely, and I’m guilty of some of that myself. But that’s all just a lot of heated emotion from Dads/decent human beings desperately trying to convince ourselves that somehow we’d be able to something, ANYTHING to stop this if god-forbid that was one of our children's school. Everyone on here posting is grieving for those children and their families, you included.

Nobody’s gonna take away your rights or your guns or your kids or your fucking balls, so pack up your tin hat paranoid bullshit.
The Dems can’t find their asses with both hands let alone orchestrate some giant legislated gun-grab, so relaaaax. The only people that want to make you think that shit are the ones that stand to make a shit ton of money off your panic i.e. the gun manufacturers and the NRA hitting us up for limitless donations to fight a figment of their imagination.
And DONT go out and buy cases of ammo and reloading components bc all you’re doing is fucking it up for the rest of us non-panicking assholes

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

BUT, be better prepared for the next one.
We want to see data, blame, but learn from this one.

We will never be able to spot all the crazies in time, but can we delay entry with minimal effort?
or
How do you get an active shooter out of a school?
Don't make it easy for him to get in.

No reason to beat a dead horse of what should of or could of been done , question is can we learn to do better . Parents should bring this up at their local school board meetings to check what is in place if this should happen where you live. Next question is do we have a right to save our own children during this event like this if you have the capabilities instead of leaving it up to others who might not have the same conviction you have about your children......

There's very little to be learned from this. Police didn't act. They sat around making a plan. Stupid people did stupid stuff and a freak happened upon the stupidity and acted like the evil fuck that he was.
There's no reason to debate the, sure to come, evaluation.
There's a country that is surrounded by it's sworn enemies and they don't have to stop and make a plan before actually doing something. I don't remember when I ever heard about an Israeli school having something like this happen.

 

[UKDslayer]

Everyone on here posting is grieving for those children and their families,

True. And everyone grieves differently.

Nobody’s gonna take away your rights or your guns or your kids or your fucking balls, so pack up your tin hat paranoid bullshit.
The Dems can’t find their asses with both hands let alone orchestrate some giant legislated gun-grab, so relaaaax.

Really? We have free speech being censored; we had patriotic protestors imprisoned in abhorrant conditions without trial. Most here that have posted anything ""against the narrative" now have a DHS or FBI file. The mental health crisis has been created by the same globalists that want to take guns away. They banned "assault rifles" before, albeit with some grandfathering, they can do it again. Its easier (not too mention a big goal of theirs anyway) to remove guns, not to address a problem they created that has served them well and continues to serve them. How mentally healthy are Antifa or BLM rioters? They can't fix that. They should be labeled terrorists, not the patriot. The ATF already has a gun registry that is against the law, but they still have it. Dems can't accomplish much? Really? They sure jacked my budget! They have created a two tiered justice ...and I can go on and on regarding what has been done that ten years ago no one would have said would be law of our land; to say gun rights aren't at risk is absurd. They shouldn't be, its clear in the second amendment, but they have thrown Constitution to the wind in too many ways in a short period of time to trust them at all. I'm not saying its time to "panic" this second, but they have accomplished some of their goals at lightning speed.
I have already heard Congressmen using this "gun crisis" (mental health crisis) as justification to pack the court. They want guns out of our hands by midterms, and certainly before the food shortage.