Free Andy Raymond

[Alien61]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/12/09/gun-store-owner-shooting-police/

No judgements here gentlemen, but purely an attention and some help to the fellow citizen and industry professional. Local gun store owner, a mountain of the man, the husband and 2A rights defender in commie state of MD got in trouble with police and duty to retreat concept... under very unfortunate, but God knows - pure intentions. We know this man here, anyone within the hobby knows Andy in DC tristate area... there are simply no other pure intentions to help, assist and protect in this man. But still jailed and fighting for his freedom in what's look like lengthily legal fight. If you may, consider it right and rightful, please support Andy's legal fight.

https://www.givesendgo.com/AndyRaym...g1NR_EXDxLRtVFeESATftDClmV8DLG3QMQM5K_Y5frYyA

He will appreciate any level of involvement or attention, so just send him a word or two if you feels attached tho the matter. Or some beans to payoff his legal bills.
And stay vigilant - the nerve reaction between central nervous system and the holster may vary in some states, despite velocity and momentum of the SUV trying to ram you in the darkness of the night.

 

[jb0311]

Article is behind a paywall and I doubt many here subscribe to WaPo. Can you copy/paste the text?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/12/09/gun-store-owner-shooting-police/

No judgements here gentlemen, but purely an attention and some help to the fellow citizen and industry professional. Local gun store owner, a mountain of the man, the husband and 2A rights defender in commie state of MD got in trouble with police and duty to retreat concept... under very unfortunate, but God knows - pure intentions. We know this man here, anyone within the hobby knows Andy in DC tristate area... there are simply no other pure intentions to help, assist and protect in this man. But still jailed and fighting for his freedom in what's look like lengthily legal fight. If you may, consider it right and rightful, please support Andy's legal fight.

https://www.givesendgo.com/AndyRaym...g1NR_EXDxLRtVFeESATftDClmV8DLG3QMQM5K_Y5frYyA

He will appreciate any level of involvement or attention, so just send him a word or two if you feels attached tho the matter. Or some beans to payoff his legal bills.
And stay vigilant - the nerve reaction between central nervous system and the holster may vary in some states, despite velocity and momentum of the SUV trying to ram you in the darkness of the night.

Copy and paste it for us bud

 

[kenny1773]

I am sure he is not threat to the community at large, but this is a case of poor judgement IMO. Good thing he did not actually hit the cop when he fired

Exclusive: Video shows gun store owner firing at undercover cop car

The man's attorney says the video proves he feared for his life in a mistaken encounter between two "good guys."

www.wusa9.com

I thought there was a thread here in the pit somewhere already that discussed the details when this happened

 

[Redmanss]

Police car 'drove at' Maryland gun store owner before mistaken shooting, lawyer says

Gun store owner Andy Raymond remains in jail after shooting at undercover police car Tuesday. Lawyer says owner feared burglars were targeting business

www.wusa9.com

Gun store owner charged with shooting at officer thought he was in danger, attorney said

Andrew S. Raymond, 42, charged and arrested for firing shots at a police car on Tuesday, did not mean to shoot, said his attorney David Martella.

moco360.media

Not seeing anything overly recent, or what his bail (if available) is. While based solely on the news reports it appears like he fucked up taking shots at an unmarked police car thinking it was robbers casing his business, the man doesn't sound like any kind of overt threat to society or flight risk and shouldn't have a huge bail or lack thereof while he goes through his trial.

Duty to retreat, have fun with that shit Marylanders.

ETA: I see from the article @kenny1773 posted he's held without bail, what a crock of shit. That's a judge and DA deliberately targeting a 2A advocate to "teach him a lesson" along with everyone else like him, cut and dry.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I am sure he is not threat to the community at large, but this is a case of poor judgement IMO. Good thing he did not actually hit the cop when he fired

Exclusive: Video shows gun store owner firing at undercover cop car

The man's attorney says the video proves he feared for his life in a mistaken encounter between two "good guys."

www.wusa9.com

I thought there was a thread here in the pit somewhere already that discussed the details when this happened

Not the best decision but why in the world would the cop do that and not hit his lights or stop???

 

[TXAZ]

God bless him. There are anti-constitutional states (and cities like Austin Tx) that will use local laws to minimize constitutional rights by prosecuting anyone exercising constitutional rights.

 

[supercorndogs]

Was the undercover cop car full of people planning to break into his store?

 

[spamassassin]

Was not a clean shoot no matter how much we want it to be. Shooting at a fleeing car that doesn't appear to have ever posed a direct much less immediate threat and which continues to pose no additional or even identifiable threat to anyone else is a no-no. Don't run toward stupid. It'll find its way to you all by itself.

 

[MK20]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/12/09/gun-store-owner-shooting-police/

No judgements here gentlemen, but purely an attention and some help to the fellow citizen and industry professional. Local gun store owner, a mountain of the man, the husband and 2A rights defender in commie state of MD got in trouble with police and duty to retreat concept... under very unfortunate, but God knows - pure intentions. We know this man here, anyone within the hobby knows Andy in DC tristate area... there are simply no other pure intentions to help, assist and protect in this man. But still jailed and fighting for his freedom in what's look like lengthily legal fight. If you may, consider it right and rightful, please support Andy's legal fight.

https://www.givesendgo.com/AndyRaym...g1NR_EXDxLRtVFeESATftDClmV8DLG3QMQM5K_Y5frYyA

He will appreciate any level of involvement or attention, so just send him a word or two if you feels attached tho the matter. Or some beans to payoff his legal bills.
And stay vigilant - the nerve reaction between central nervous system and the holster may vary in some states, despite velocity and momentum of the SUV trying to ram you in the darkness of the night.

While I am sure the individual mentioned is in need, the OP's syntax and grammar seems very foreign, so do your own validating.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Was the undercover cop car full of people planning to break into his store?

Come on Police robbing shit impossible.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I don't care if you're in Florida or Texas or George Washington's living room, if you unload on a car that is driving away from you and is no longer a threat, you're committing a crime. He wouldn't have had to dodge the car if he hadn't sprinted into its line of travel with his gun drawn. Stupid decisions all around. This is what happens when you try to take the law into your own hands. He will do time for this, and no gotundme account is going to change that. You don't get to shoot a car full of holes because someone is driving in your parking lot at night.

 

[Redmanss]

I agree it was a bad shoot, but still doesn't deserve being held without bail.

 

[wade2big]

Some of you asshats replying in this thread are your own worst enemy. Siding with gov’t that hates you is not only foolish but just plain stupid. May your chains rest lightly when it’t your time….

 

[jb0311]

While I am sure the individual mentioned is in need, the OP's syntax and grammar seems very foreign, so do your own validating.

Does seem like a sleeper. 39 messages since 2010…

 

[Bender]

Some of you asshats replying in this thread are your own worst enemy. Siding with gov’t that hates you is not only foolish but just plain stupid. May your chains rest lightly when it’t your time….

Gianteyeroll.gif

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Some of you asshats replying in this thread are your own worst enemy. Siding with gov’t that hates you is not only foolish but just plain stupid. May your chains rest lightly when it’t your time….

Siding with the government? Hey buddy, that could have just as easily been someone's wife and kids in that car. He unloaded a pistol into a car for turning around in his parking lot at night..come back to reality, you're too far off the deep end.

 

[jb0311]

Some of you asshats replying in this thread are your own worst enemy. Siding with gov’t that hates you is not only foolish but just plain stupid. May your chains rest lightly when it’t your time….

This is the exact type of shit we all get pissed about when cops do it. Shooting wildly at someone driving away, because "i was scared for my life". The no bail is bullshit but this guy shooting at a fleeing car because "he thought it was full of bad guys" is real fucking retarded, sir.

 

[Duc]

Happens to LE too;

St. John police officer charged in November shooting with off-duty Hammond officer, officials say

A St. John, Indiana, police officer has been charged in connection to a November officer-involved shooting involving, officials announced.

abc7chicago.com

I don't know if anyone's in Jail without Bail though....

 

[jb0311]

Happens to LE too;

St. John police officer charged in November shooting with off-duty Hammond officer, officials say

A St. John, Indiana, police officer has been charged in connection to a November officer-involved shooting involving, officials announced.

abc7chicago.com

I don't know if anyone's in Jail without Bail though....

One is also on paid leave while the other sits in a cell.

edited to add: I'm also curious what each one was actually charged with since assaulting or threatening a police officer usually carries stiffer penalties. Does that only apply to civilians against cops, or do cops get the same charges?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

If the cops in that car had stuck a shotgun out the window and splattered his brains all over the parking lot, that would have been the only justified shooting that took place in that incident. Imagine what this looks like from the dash cam: this dude sprinting in front of the car, gun drawn, aiming right at their heads, and they swerve and go around him as he empties his mag. He's a moron..

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

If I had been in that car, that dude would have been laying in the casket with BF Goodrich tire tracks all over his dead ass.

Don't be a moron..

 

[spamassassin]

Some of you asshats replying in this thread are your own worst enemy. Siding with gov’t that hates you is not only foolish but just plain stupid. May your chains rest lightly when it’t your time….

Siding with the government? The statement quoted above is the kind of response that's usually caused by the tyranny of a discontinuous mind.

To explain: To the discontinuous mind there is the side of the government and then there is everything else. There's no overlap. The two cannot inhabit even part of the same space. There's zero room for one to say that their position and that of any of the government's branches all happen to be the same, even if for different reasons. That's the kind of intellectually dishonest thoughtlessness that the far left engages in as a default behavior and which we all righteously castigate them for at every opportunity. Black and white thinking leaves no room for careful, reasoned consideration of the totality or nuance of the situation and abandons any hope for rule of law to operate. I'll grant that siding with a government that hates you is stupid, if you side with them against your own interests. Our interests include requiring those of us that carry defensive weapons to exercise due care when employing those weapons and that we abide by any relevant laws that won't get us killed in the moment. It's one of the ways that we distinguish ourselves from the bad guys.

 

[davsco]

despite a low-post-count OP, the situation (longstanding gun store owner and 2a advocate shooting at an unmarked vehicle) is unfortunately legit. hopefully more evidence or insight is found that results in him getting a short sentence or preferably, no sentence. and of course, released on bail til his hearing.

 

[wade2big]

Siding with the government? The statement quoted above is the kind of response that's usually caused by the tyranny of a discontinuous mind.

To explain: To the discontinuous mind there is the side of the government and then there is everything else. There's no overlap. The two cannot inhabit even part of the same space. There's zero room for one to say that their position and that of any of the government's branches all happen to be the same, even if for different reasons. That's the kind of intellectually dishonest thoughtlessness that the far left engages in as a default behavior and which we all righteously castigate them for at every opportunity. Black and white thinking leaves no room for careful, reasoned consideration of the totality or nuance of the situation and abandons any hope for rule of law to operate. I'll grant that siding with a government that hates you is stupid, if you side with them against your own interests. Our interests include requiring those of us that carry defensive weapons to exercise due care when employing those weapons and that we abide by any relevant laws that won't get us killed in the moment. It's one of the ways that we distinguish ourselves from the bad guys.

You have to pretend this gov’t hasn’t been murdering and imprisoning innocent people. How many has government sentenced to death in unnecessary foreign wars and convinced people that it’s somehow patriotic and a good thing. How many have suffered and/or died in the name of covid? Impoverished? Are there political prisoners? Are there ongoing attacks on liberty as we speak? How many states such as the one this article is about already pisses on the “law of the land”. Are the police that were shot at the guys all things considering or are they tyrannical statists? Are elections free and fair? What state or local gov’t is condemning what I mentioned? How many Billions more to ukraine or other atrocities before people understand there we have no representation.

You have to overlook a shit ton to be partial. Its a fools mindset. I know what criminal organization is the biggest threat faced and who is part of it.

 

[vh20]

While I am sure the individual mentioned is in need, the OP's syntax and grammar seems very foreign, so do your own validating.

"ALIEN61" Duh!

 

[kenny1773]

Not the best decision but why in the world would the cop do that and not hit his lights or stop???

strawman argument

What if that were you or me or my wife lost at night and just needed to stop for a minute, look at the GPS, turn around and get on their way.

Looking at the SUV driver, there is 100% nothing I can see in the video that I haven't personally done myself while driving at night lost
(gps like google maps take you to the wrong place regularly)

Ignore this driver was a cop for a minute

This was a moment of poor judgement by a tired and worried good man. He should not be in jail awaiting trial IMO, that is happening because he lives in an anti gun state.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

strawman argument

What if that were you or me or my wife lost at night and just needed to stop for a minute, look at the GPS, turn around and get on their way.

Looking at the SUV driver, there is 100% nothing I can see in the video that I haven't personally done myself while driving at night lost
(gps like google maps take you to the wrong place regularly)

Ignore this driver was a cop for a minute

This was a moment of poor judgement by a tired and worried good man. He should not be in jail awaiting trial IMO, that is happening because he lives in an anti gun state.

Kind of why it's happening, but not really. Illinois is as anti-gun as anywhere, and had he killed them both, he'd be eligible for a no cash bail.

He almost killed two innocent people. He better get comfortable with group showers and shitty food.

 

[Maggot]

Siding with the government? The statement quoted above is the kind of response that's usually caused by the tyranny of a discontinuous mind.

To explain: To the discontinuous mind there is the side of the government and then there is everything else. There's no overlap. The two cannot inhabit even part of the same space. There's zero room for one to say that their position and that of any of the government's branches all happen to be the same, even if for different reasons. That's the kind of intellectually dishonest thoughtlessness that the far left engages in as a default behavior and which we all righteously castigate them for at every opportunity. Black and white thinking leaves no room for careful, reasoned consideration of the totality or nuance of the situation and abandons any hope for rule of law to operate. I'll grant that siding with a government that hates you is stupid, if you side with them against your own interests. Our interests include requiring those of us that carry defensive weapons to exercise due care when employing those weapons and that we abide by any relevant laws that won't get us killed in the moment. It's one of the ways that we distinguish ourselves from the bad guys.

Wadester has.....problems.

 

[wade2big]

Kind of why it's happening, but not really. Illinois is as anti-gun as anywhere, and had he killed them both, he'd be eligible for a no cash bail.

He almost killed two innocent people. He better get comfortable with group showers and shitty food.

Were they innocent?

This is what these men do.

Baltimore police arrest ‘good guy with the gun’ who stopped armed attacker

After Marine veteran Lloyd Muldrow stopped an attack by an armed assailant at a Baltimore bar, police officers thanked him — and then they arrested him.

m.washingtontimes.com

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

You don't think they were innocent by virtue of being police officers alone?

I've said this before, but you only say these things because you've never spent time anywhere where there are no police. Warlords rule those places. This system is flawed but the alternative only appeals to the psychopath who wants to be the warlord.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

strawman argument

What if that were you or me or my wife lost at night and just needed to stop for a minute, look at the GPS, turn around and get on their way.

Looking at the SUV driver, there is 100% nothing I can see in the video that I haven't personally done myself while driving at night lost
(gps like google maps take you to the wrong place regularly)

Ignore this driver was a cop for a minute

This was a moment of poor judgement by a tired and worried good man. He should not be in jail awaiting trial IMO, that is happening because he lives in an anti gun state.

Yeah I said it was a bad decision by the guy but I don't understand the situation apparently or something? I don't get why the cop would just turn around and speed toward a man???

 

[kenny1773]

Yeah I said it was a bad decision by the guy but I don't understand the situation apparently or something? I don't get why the cop would just turn around and speed toward a man???

I would ask why did a non-police non-security person RUN TOWARDS my SUV at 12:30 am in a dark parking lot and motion like he had a gun in his hands?

Had you been driving, you might have run him over too
IMO he would appear to be a threat to the driver.

Watching the video over and over again, you get to make a perfect call. A tired guy worried about burglars in the middle of night probably isn't thinking straight.

 

[kenny1773]

Kind of why it's happening, but not really. Illinois is as anti-gun as anywhere, and had he killed them both, he'd be eligible for a no cash bail.

He almost killed two innocent people. He better get comfortable with group showers and shitty food.

True

I was just meaning being free on bail until his trial
He isn't a threat
He isn't a flight risk (family + business + time in community etc)

He should be out until his trial, but then I think he will probably have some jail time after his trial

anti gun MD is holding him without bail, where another state, say a conservative state, would probably let him out on bail.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

True

I was just meaning being free on bail until his trial
He isn't a threat
He isn't a flight risk (family + business + time in community etc)

He should be out until his trial, but then I think he will probably have some jail time after his trial

anti gun MD is holding him without bail, where another state, say a conservative state, would probably let him out on bail.

He probably shouldn't be denied bail, but that's a decision by one individual judge. If he rolled the dice 5 more times in this situation and got 5 different judges, they would probably all have granted him bail. They may drop the charges eventually, and maybe this is their way of punishing him for his stupidity. I'm not defending their decision, I think it's tyrannical, but I'd rather sit in jail for 90 days than face two counts of attempted murder.

 

[jb0311]

Yeah I said it was a bad decision by the guy but I don't understand the situation apparently or something? I don't get why the cop would just turn around and speed toward a man???

Granted there's a lot off camera, but I wouldn't have done anything different if I were driving that vehicle, except maybe hit the guy if I saw him pulling a firearm on me. He could have been boxed in the parking lot and turning around. If someone ran out like that in front of my car while i was trying to get out of there i would go immediately on the defensive as well. Looks like he was just trying to get off the X. I suppose we will find out more as this goes to trial though.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I would ask why did a non-police non-security person RUN TOWARDS my SUV at 12:30 am in a dark parking lot and motion like he had a gun in his hands?

Had you been driving, you might have run him over too
IMO he would appear to be a threat to the driver.

Watching the video over and over again, you get to make a perfect call. A tired guy worried about burglars in the middle of night probably isn't thinking straight.

He didn't act like he had a gun until the supposedly trained officer gun it at him??? He put both hands up and then after realizing the cop was going to drive right at him he then pulls a gun. Now it was really dumb to shoot after the cop was past him, no matter the situation otherwise, but you are really really stretching it and giving the cop a lot of excuses imo. The guy definitely made a bad decision but so did the cop.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

He didn't act like he had a gun until the supposedly trained officer gun it at him??? He put both hands up and then after realizing the cop was going to drive right at him he then pulls a gun. Now it was really dumb to shoot after the cop was past him, no matter the situation otherwise, but you are really really stretching it and giving the cop a lot of excuses imo. The guy definitely made a bad decision but so did the cop.

What bad decision did the cop make? Accelerating and driving around an idiot with a gun aimed at him for turning around in a parking light at 12:30am?

Go back and watch the video, the gun was in his hand as soon as he ran onto the screen.

What's funny to me is that the cop haters always want to attack cops for defending cops when one does something questionable, but when a gun owner is a fucking idiot, you want to line up and make excuses for them. This is simple:

1. You don't get to draw your gun on some for turning around in a parking lot.
2. You don't get to shoot someone who isn't an active threat.

Stop making excuses, the world will be a better place when this guy isn't swinging a gun around like a moron.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

What bad decision did the cop make? Accelerating and driving around an idiot with a gun aimed at him for turning around in a parking light at 12:30am?

Go back and watch the video, the gun was in his hand as soon as he ran onto the screen.

What's funny to me is that the cop haters always want to attack cops for defending cops when one does something questionable, but when a gun owner is a fucking idiot, you want to line up and make excuses for them. This is simple:

1. You don't get to draw your gun on some for turning around in a parking lot.
2. You don't get to shoot someone who isn't an active threat.

Stop making excuses, the world will be a better place when this guy isn't swinging a gun around like a moron.

Maybe you just can't read??? I've already covered the guys actions. I see the BOTH OF THE GUYS HANDS , both of them, then I see him draw his weapon as the cop speeds toward him. Again, I'm not even talking about the guy here, we know his actions were bad (of course somehow the cops get the "heat of the moment excuses and citizens don't "(I agree with the heat of the moment split second decision slack being cut btw).

It's amazing that the idea that a cop screwed up can't even be discussed without changing what's on the video plain to see.

Under Maryland laws, the dude made several really bad decisions, but the cop creeping through his place, then turning around and driving at a man with his hands up is a bad move.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Maybe you just can't read??? I've already covered the guys actions. I see the BOTH OF THE GUYS HANDS , both of them, then I see him draw his weapon as the cop speeds toward him. Again, I'm not even talking about the guy here, we know his actions were bad (of course somehow the cops get the "heat of the moment excuses and citizens don't "(I agree with the heat of the moment split second decision slack being cut btw).

It's amazing that the idea that a cop screwed up can't even be discussed without changing what's on the video plain to see.

Under Maryland laws, the dude made several really bad decisions, but the cop creeping through his place, then turning around and driving at a man with his hands up is a bad move.

Driving at him?

Where the fuck else was he supposed to go? He was already driving forward when the dude sprinted directly at the car into his line of travel.

I guess he should have rolled his window down and asked the guy if he wanted to shoot him or was just lost and looking for directions. He's lucky that cop swerved around him. I'd have left his warm corpse laying on the pavement.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Maybe you just can't read??? I've already covered the guys actions. I see the BOTH OF THE GUYS HANDS , both of them, then I see him draw his weapon as the cop speeds toward him. Again, I'm not even talking about the guy here, we know his actions were bad (of course somehow the cops get the "heat of the moment excuses and citizens don't "(I agree with the heat of the moment split second decision slack being cut btw).

It's amazing that the idea that a cop screwed up can't even be discussed without changing what's on the video plain to see.

Under Maryland laws, the dude made several really bad decisions, but the cop creeping through his place, then turning around and driving at a man with his hands up is a bad move.

You are correct about when he drew though. I had to go back and watch it again. I initially thought his gun was drawn the entire approach.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Driving at him?

Where the fuck else was he supposed to go? He was already driving forward when the dude sprinted directly at the car into his line of travel.

I guess he should have rolled his window down and asked the guy if he wanted to shoot him or was just lost and looking for directions. He's lucky that cop swerved around him. I'd have left his warm corpse laying on the pavement.

He could have let the guy know he was a cop man. I mean, it seems like the easiest most natural thing to do is flash your blue lights. He could have just stopped when he saw a man come up with his hands up. Stop, see why this guy is doing this, its not like he's in a marked car.

Clearly the store owner did the wrong thing, but I think the cop mishandled it as well. Tough position to be in for sure though

 

[jb0311]

I think we can all agree, never run out into oncoming traffic

Nothing good will come of it.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

He could have let the guy know he was a cop man. I mean, it seems like the easiest most natural thing to do is flash your blue lights. He could have just stopped when he saw a man come up with his hands up. Stop, see why this guy is doing this, its not like he's in a marked car.

Clearly the store owner did the wrong thing, but I think the cop mishandled it as well. Tough position to be in for sure though

The problem comes from the aggression this dude introduced to the situation. They weren't prying the bars off the windows of his shop, they were turning around in what appears to be a large multi-use parking lot. He had no right to bother whoever was in that car, let alone sprint directly into their line of travel like a maniac and trying to do whatever he thought he was doing. Most people would have done exactly what the cop did and realized the safest option when approached by an unknown aggressor in the middle of the night would be to stomp the gas and create distance from the threat.

 

[kenny1773]

He didn't act like he had a gun until the supposedly trained officer gun it at him??? He put both hands up and then after realizing the cop was going to drive right at him he then pulls a gun. Now it was really dumb to shoot after the cop was past him, no matter the situation otherwise, but you are really really stretching it and giving the cop a lot of excuses imo. The guy definitely made a bad decision but so did the cop.

Was the cop driving at Andy because

1. cops normally intend to run over people in parking lots
2. cop didn't see Andy, it was dark, it was late, Andy in dark clothing, and no one was there 5 seconds ago, cop was maybe distracted by something inside the SUV
3. cop thought this lone man in the parking lot was a threat and tried to run him over to neutralize the threat (I don't see enough evidence to support this over #2)

I see a lot in that video that would support #2
knowing the SUV driver was a cop, makes #2 even more likely IMO

Why do you think a cop would appear to drive at a person in a parking lot at night?


Andy misinterpreted the SUV driving at him as a burglar trying to kill him and not a cop that just might not have seen him.

I am not trying to defend the cop. I am fairly neutral towards cops in general, there are good ones, there are bad ones. I see no reason in the video to think this was a bad cop (do you?). Andy on the other hand made multiple dumb decisions that put him in harms way.

I think your distrust of cops is making this look like more than it is to you

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

The problem comes from the aggression this dude introduced to the situation. They weren't prying the bars off the windows of his shop, they were turning around in what appears to be a large multi-use parking lot. He had no right to bother whoever was in that car, let alone sprint directly into their line of travel like a maniac and trying to do whatever he thought he was doing. Most people would have done exactly what the cop did and realized the safest option when approached by an unknown aggressor in the middle of the night would be to stomp the gas and create distance from the threat.

His actions have already been agreed upon as bad. Asked and answered.

I agree that the way he acted complicated the situation for the cop, but I don't agree with somehow the cop in an unmarked Police Vehicle , had only the options of Joe citizen. That isn't the case. Had the guy run up with a weapon then I'm all the way with you (see what I did there)... but given that he put both hands up to show he wasn't being aggressive, that just doesn't fly for me. Would it startle the average Joe? Yes, for sure. Is the only response available to the guy who is supposed to Identify himself as a police officer, to hit the gad at a man with both hands up? Nah.... sorry but that's a bs excuse. Cop should have stopped, flipped his blue lights, and immediately defused the situation. I'm not saying the cop should be reprimanded in any way or anything like that, it was a quick and weird ass thing, but to just act like the cop did everything right is ridiculous and typical of the police apologist crew and exactly why we are where we are with police relations in this country. THE COPS CAN DO NO WRONG ATTITUDE. Simply questioning a cops actions doesn't mean anyone is a cop haters, as you accused me of being when you began in this excuse making. I can agree with a lot of what you said, but the knee jerk "cop couldn't do anything wrong" crap is what everyone is so tired of.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Was the cop driving at Andy because

1. cops normally intend to run over people in parking lots
2. cop didn't see Andy, it was dark, it was late, Andy in dark clothing, and no one was there 5 seconds ago, cop was maybe distracted by something inside the SUV
3. cop thought this lone man in the parking lot was a threat and tried to run him over to neutralize the threat (I don't see enough evidence to support this over #2)

I see a lot in that video that would support #2
knowing the SUV driver was a cop, makes #2 even more likely IMO

Why do you think a cop would appear to drive at a person in a parking lot at night?


Andy misinterpreted the SUV driving at him as a burglar trying to kill him and not a cop that just might not have seen him.

I am not trying to defend the cop. I am fairly neutral towards cops in general, there are good ones, there are bad ones. I see no reason in the video to think this was a bad cop (do you?). Andy on the other hand made multiple dumb decisions that put him in harms way.

I think your distrust of cops is making this look like more than it is to you

I see no reason to think he's a bad cop. I also see no reason to think he didn't see Andy. I can see his head lights shine directly at Andy with Andy's hands in the air so.....

Perhaps your assumption of how I feel about cops is coloring your view? I haven't said anything about how I feel about cops. In fact, I have often said how impossible their job is to do these days, and already said ITT, that I actually do agree with the general premise of slack being cut to police due to having to make split second decisions. Looks like you are the one making these judgements and applying them to me nit me to cops

 

[BLEE]

Article is behind a paywall and I doubt many here subscribe to WaPo. Can you copy/paste the text?

Paste the url into google and click the three dots to the right of the query result. Click the cached page and read for free.

 

[jb0311]

Paste the url into google and click the three dots to the right of the query result. Click the cached page and read for free.

Id rather read the other articles about it posted than to read a wapo article but appreciated nevertheless.

 

[kenny1773]

I also see no reason to think he didn't see Andy.

This is where we disagree
I think he didn't see Andy in time to do anything other than swerve

but neither of us will ever know the truth, you judge for yourself by the video and what normal cop behavior is when they see someone in time vs not seeing someone in time.