How much do set your bullets back from the lands?

[Jayjay1]

Hey guys,
when you start reloading / testing a new bullet, how much do you set your bullet back from the lands?
No BR-loads, which I know, some do set the bullets right into the lands, but for "normal" rifles.

I´m starting f.e. with the
- .224ish set back around .02"
- .308ish set back around .04"

Where do you start and how close to the lands would you go?

 

[padom]

I use extensive amounts of recorded data I have saved on my server and reference that when reloading for a new rifle...

Generally, for the 2 calibers you listed, I start 0.01 or 0.02 off lands for OCW workup. Then do a seating depth test from touching to 0.05 off

 

[danatkins]

I go mag length on my normal rifles and don't have any target rifles yet.

 

[Jayjay1]

Then do a seating depth test from touching to 0.05 off

You do touch the lands?

I know that this is done in benchrest, because they have extrem fat / stable chambers and barrels, but do you do this with a normal-sized chamber-thickness?

And how far are you normaly set back with a g-t-g load?

 

[Jayjay1]

I go mag length on my normal rifles and don't have any target rifles yet.

So you never check the seating depth in the lands?

 

[padom]

You do touch the lands?

I know that this is done in benchrest, because they have extrem fat / stable chambers and barrels, but do you do this with a normal-sized chamber-thickness?

And how far are you normaly set back with a g-t-g load?

A chamber is a chamber, they don't make chambers less capable at handling Saami pressures because it's not a benchrest rifle..

A tenon spec is a tenon spec. Lets take a rem700 for example. The tenon gets cut to an exact spec regardless if it's an off the shelf rem700 hunting rifle or a fully trued and blueprinted rem700 action with a custom barrel for a match rifle or BR rifle.. the chamber isn't "fatter" as you say.

308win Saami pressure is 62,000 psi.

I set back to whatever the seating depth tells me. I ALWAYS find one seating depth that the group shrunk right up. That's the one you load... typically that's in the 0.01 - 0.02 range...

 

[padom]

I go mag length on my normal rifles and don't have any target rifles yet.

What's a normal rifle?? Mag length depending on caliber, magazine, and rifle could be a mile from the lands or could be jammed into the lands. All depends on the caliber, rifle, ammo and magazine.

I always check distance to the lands on EVERY rifle if I'm handloading for it. Doing this for 20+ years, I know what distance from the lands most bullets I load like to be... without measuring, you are loading blind and wasting components trying to figure it out. Unless you don't care about accuracy and are good with whatever mag length shoots in your rifle...

 

[Rover31]

Hey guys,
when you start reloading / testing a new bullet, how much do you set your bullet back from the lands?
No BR-loads, which I know, some do set the bullets right into the lands, but for "normal" rifles.

I´m starting f.e. with the
- .224ish set back around .02"
- .308ish set back around .04"

Where do you start and how close to the lands would you go?

I set my loads to mag length and powder load is my adjustment for pressure

 

[waspocrew]

I start at .020 off for everything unless that’s too long for the magazine.

 

[simonp]

As others have said I start with loading magazine length & finding the best performance out of that round at that length.

Depending on the rifle, purpose & performance at magazine length I’ll then load longer just off the lands

 

[FredHammer]

I set my loads to mag length and powder load is my adjustment for pressure

A lot of times I welcome that restriction, LOL. "OK, load long enough to function in the mag, fuck that incremental jump testing, and let'er eat!" (After checking the DTL of course)

To the OP: You will hit your pressure sooner loading at the lands, or a few thou in jam than say, 20-30 thou off the lands. Either way is fine so long as you load accordingly. Typical cup & core bullets. Copper monos like a pretty long jump of generally .050-.100 with longer jumps reported successful.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

You can go fairly deep into the lands safely. You just need to make sure you're not close to the point where a bullet will stick. Which is typically somewhere above .020 into lands.

I generally don't load into lands just to be safe when you're not looking for the absolute best precision. Most shooters don't require and don't have the equipment required to exploit such precision.

I typically start .005 or .010 off if it's something unknown. Most of the time I either already have data, or there's enough data out there that you can use to get very close to your final seating depth without having to run long winded tests.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You can go fairly deep into the lands safely. You just need to make sure you're not close to the point where a bullet will stick. Which is typically somewhere above .020 into lands.

I generally don't load into lands just to be safe when you're not looking for the absolute best precision. Most shooters don't require and don't have the equipment required to exploit such precision.

I typically start .005 or .010 off if it's something unknown. Most of the time I either already have data, or there's enough data out there that you can use to get very close to your final seating depth without having to run long winded tests.

Yeah I usually start at .010 off the lands but once you've loaded for your calibers that you shoot for a while and tried different bullets ect, you kind of know about where you will end up. I still test it though, because it's my nature.

 

[Jayjay1]

I´m wondering that you don´t differentiate between the smaller and bigger calibers (aka less or more energy).

And what about solids?
Barnes f.e. says for its TTSX bullets to use a jump from .050" to .250", what is a LOT.

I´m trying different seating depths for every bullet, even shot in the same barrel, seeing group size differences.

 

[Tokay444]

Right now I'm jamming .025". That keeps my loaded 6BR rounds at mag length in an MDT BR AISC mag.

 

[st1650]

Really depends on the bullet type.
My 7SAW 145 LRX I jump 70 thou and it’s noticeably more accurate at that jump than at 10-20 thou.
My 223 match chamber can shoot Lapua Scenar-L 77 at any coal and it’ll print 1/2 moa group or better.

 

[Supersubes]

I´m wondering that you don´t differentiate between the smaller and bigger calibers (aka less or more energy).

And what about solids?
Barnes f.e. says for its TTSX bullets to use a jump from .050" to .250", what is a LOT.

I´m trying different seating depths for every bullet, even shot in the same barrel, seeing group size differences.

Im no fan of jamming anything, and tend to settle in the .020-.050 range. This is with premium barrels and match chambers. With the Barnes I start at .050 and usually stay there. Youre gonna get a lot of opinions here, just make sure you shoot enough of each load for it to matter. One 3 or 5 shot group of each load means almost nothing.

 

[Aftermath]

I start out by making a dummy cartridge that will function in the magazine and feed well into the action using the bullet I want to use. I then have a chamber cut to allow the bullet seated in that combination to just barely touch the rifling. Then I start with a mild load of powder and start increasing that powder charge, primarily looking for max speed without pressure signs. Once determined, I then start backing away from the lands. As stated in post #2, there is going to be a seating depth that works better at that velocity with that combination of stuff. I have tried to then increase the powder charge but the accuracy will fall off every single time...you have to then find another seating depth for that new velocity. I have done that but soon realized it a waste of time and resources.

 

[hafejd30]

My main bullets are Hornady ELDX or Sierra match king

Typically I start .020 off. I find the hornady like at least that. Typically .020-.030 off. SMK I run .010 - .015 in my 260 and 338 LM when I had that

My fclass 284 I run 180 Berger hybrid .010 off

 

[Near miss]

Something interesting to read:

More Bullet Jump Research!

This is the 4th article in a series on some new research on bullet jumps. Here is a recap of the pr...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[CK1.0]

I like to use a healthy jump if possible... so if I can get away with it, I like to try .100" off the lands and then see what that gets me.

When using a bigger jump I find that my vertical dispersion downrange is always better/more consistent... with the added side-effect of the barrels staying shooting the same for their whole usable lives (no chasing the lands or requiring any load adjustments as they wear and things change).

That said, with some cartridges/chambers, 100 off can put the bullet's bearing surface below the neck/shoulder junction and the bases pretty deep into the cases... which I'm not totally convinced is actually that bad... so sometimes I just jump as far as I can get away with.

...I should add that I don't really give a shit about 100-yard groups and don't really use them to make as many decisions about my load as some guys do... I just want a .5" group or less at 100, day-in-day-out without much fuss. IME all of my barrels will print smaller, sometimes .25" at 100, but as far as I can tell it has more to do with the stars aligning just right, or maybe what I had for breakfast or how I slept the night before, more so than dicking around with my load forever and wasting barrel-life shooting too many groups at 100. YMMV.

 

[Jayjay1]

Something interesting to read:

More Bullet Jump Research!

This is the 4th article in a series on some new research on bullet jumps. Here is a recap of the pr...

precisionrifleblog.com

0.060", who would have guessed.
Holy moly!

Well, I think I will do my next load testing starting a bit higher.

 

[Near miss]

I just retired my old barrel. I could push the bullet into the bore and yet it still was doing fine

 

[Pharmseller]

I always start out just kissing the lands, and work backwards from there.




P

 

[RandyM72]

Hey guys,
when you start reloading / testing a new bullet, how much do you set your bullet back from the lands?
No BR-loads, which I know, some do set the bullets right into the lands, but for "normal" rifles.

I´m starting f.e. with the
- .224ish set back around .02"
- .308ish set back around .04"

Where do you start and how close to the lands would you go?

Seating depth; there is alot of discussion on this-there is a good article in Accurate Shooter about the different ogives and how this affects the seating depth ( https://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/tangent-vs-secant-vs-hybrid-ogive-bullets/ ) -something I didn't know. It is quite a chore to establish just touching the lands or your benchmark of zero. To establish this the Hornady bullet comparator tool is a quick method and you have a reference for future to duplicate that loads seating depth. Another method is to load your bullets long, chamber them and if the bolt will not close or there is any resistance - keep running it through the bullet seating process succussively seating deeper each time until you get the bolt to close with no resistance. Thats your zero benchmark reference. Your die threading at 1/16 of an inch - which is 62/1000 per full rotation - 1/8 of a turn is 7/1000 and you can estimate pretty closely your distance off the lands. You may wish to load a dummy round for future-simply insert your dummy round into the shellholder and lower the seating die until you just make semi-firm contact - don't forget your loading presses furthest down push is a bit less that the full stroke. This exercise allows you to avoid buying more rifle goo-gas. Its not a method that accuracy target shooter uses but it works relativey well for someone who just wants to get it done. . I found accuracy at 0 to 10/1000 of an inch off the lands terrible. Around 13/1000 to 17/1000 seems to be the sweetspot. But seating the bullets deeper-ie; 20 to 60/1000 of an inch there isnt much change in accuracy and it is only moderatel less accurate (ie; 1/8 MOA) than at the 13/1000 to 17/1000 range off the lands. I went through this exercise twice loading 5 shells from land contact to 60/1000 of an inch off the lands in 5/1000 increments. That was a pile of reloading. To make your life simple-you may just want to seat your bullets at 20/1000 off the lands and be done with it. Benchrest shooters often have the bullets seated a few thousands into the lands with reduced loads. For normal loads max or near to max powder - land contact will increase pressures significantly. I personally avoid this and stick with that zone of 13-17/1000 off the lands. I have read blogs from more than one serious target shooter with more experience than me that seat 10-25/1000 " off the lands and never change it regardless of throat wear that may grow to 50/1000" or more. I will not argue with people with that experience nor have I shot out a barrel either. One thing I should add-in going through this exercise - you may find older guns, ex-military guns have a intended huge bullet jump and it is not possible to achieve seating depths of 20/1000 off the lands as the cartridge will not fit in the magazine, feed into or through the chamber/action. I found this with a military Husquavarna 6.5 x 55 Swede and a model 94 Winchester 32 Special.