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How much do set your bullets back from the lands?

Jayjay1

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 30, 2018
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Hey guys,
when you start reloading / testing a new bullet, how much do you set your bullet back from the lands?
No BR-loads, which I know, some do set the bullets right into the lands, but for "normal" rifles.

I´m starting f.e. with the
- .224ish set back around .02"
- .308ish set back around .04"

Where do you start and how close to the lands would you go?
:unsure:
 
I use extensive amounts of recorded data I have saved on my server and reference that when reloading for a new rifle...

Generally, for the 2 calibers you listed, I start 0.01 or 0.02 off lands for OCW workup. Then do a seating depth test from touching to 0.05 off
 
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Then do a seating depth test from touching to 0.05 off

You do touch the lands?

I know that this is done in benchrest, because they have extrem fat / stable chambers and barrels, but do you do this with a normal-sized chamber-thickness?

And how far are you normaly set back with a g-t-g load?
 
You do touch the lands?

I know that this is done in benchrest, because they have extrem fat / stable chambers and barrels, but do you do this with a normal-sized chamber-thickness?

And how far are you normaly set back with a g-t-g load?

A chamber is a chamber, they don't make chambers less capable at handling Saami pressures because it's not a benchrest rifle..

A tenon spec is a tenon spec. Lets take a rem700 for example. The tenon gets cut to an exact spec regardless if it's an off the shelf rem700 hunting rifle or a fully trued and blueprinted rem700 action with a custom barrel for a match rifle or BR rifle.. the chamber isn't "fatter" as you say.

308win Saami pressure is 62,000 psi.

I set back to whatever the seating depth tells me. I ALWAYS find one seating depth that the group shrunk right up. That's the one you load... typically that's in the 0.01 - 0.02 range...
 
I go mag length on my normal rifles and don't have any target rifles yet.

What's a normal rifle?? Mag length depending on caliber, magazine, and rifle could be a mile from the lands or could be jammed into the lands. All depends on the caliber, rifle, ammo and magazine.

I always check distance to the lands on EVERY rifle if I'm handloading for it. Doing this for 20+ years, I know what distance from the lands most bullets I load like to be... without measuring, you are loading blind and wasting components trying to figure it out. Unless you don't care about accuracy and are good with whatever mag length shoots in your rifle...
 
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Hey guys,
when you start reloading / testing a new bullet, how much do you set your bullet back from the lands?
No BR-loads, which I know, some do set the bullets right into the lands, but for "normal" rifles.

I´m starting f.e. with the
- .224ish set back around .02"
- .308ish set back around .04"

Where do you start and how close to the lands would you go?
:unsure:
I set my loads to mag length and powder load is my adjustment for pressure
 
As others have said I start with loading magazine length & finding the best performance out of that round at that length.

Depending on the rifle, purpose & performance at magazine length I’ll then load longer just off the lands
 
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I set my loads to mag length and powder load is my adjustment for pressure
A lot of times I welcome that restriction, LOL. "OK, load long enough to function in the mag, fuck that incremental jump testing, and let'er eat!" (After checking the DTL of course)

To the OP: You will hit your pressure sooner loading at the lands, or a few thou in jam than say, 20-30 thou off the lands. Either way is fine so long as you load accordingly. Typical cup & core bullets. Copper monos like a pretty long jump of generally .050-.100 with longer jumps reported successful.
 
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You can go fairly deep into the lands safely. You just need to make sure you're not close to the point where a bullet will stick. Which is typically somewhere above .020 into lands.

I generally don't load into lands just to be safe when you're not looking for the absolute best precision. Most shooters don't require and don't have the equipment required to exploit such precision.

I typically start .005 or .010 off if it's something unknown. Most of the time I either already have data, or there's enough data out there that you can use to get very close to your final seating depth without having to run long winded tests.
 
You can go fairly deep into the lands safely. You just need to make sure you're not close to the point where a bullet will stick. Which is typically somewhere above .020 into lands.

I generally don't load into lands just to be safe when you're not looking for the absolute best precision. Most shooters don't require and don't have the equipment required to exploit such precision.

I typically start .005 or .010 off if it's something unknown. Most of the time I either already have data, or there's enough data out there that you can use to get very close to your final seating depth without having to run long winded tests.
Yeah I usually start at .010 off the lands but once you've loaded for your calibers that you shoot for a while and tried different bullets ect, you kind of know about where you will end up. I still test it though, because it's my nature.
 
I´m wondering that you don´t differentiate between the smaller and bigger calibers (aka less or more energy).

And what about solids?
Barnes f.e. says for its TTSX bullets to use a jump from .050" to .250", what is a LOT.

I´m trying different seating depths for every bullet, even shot in the same barrel, seeing group size differences.
:unsure:
 
Really depends on the bullet type.
My 7SAW 145 LRX I jump 70 thou and it’s noticeably more accurate at that jump than at 10-20 thou.
My 223 match chamber can shoot Lapua Scenar-L 77 at any coal and it’ll print 1/2 moa group or better.
 
I´m wondering that you don´t differentiate between the smaller and bigger calibers (aka less or more energy).

And what about solids?
Barnes f.e. says for its TTSX bullets to use a jump from .050" to .250", what is a LOT.

I´m trying different seating depths for every bullet, even shot in the same barrel, seeing group size differences.
:unsure:
Im no fan of jamming anything, and tend to settle in the .020-.050 range. This is with premium barrels and match chambers. With the Barnes I start at .050 and usually stay there. Youre gonna get a lot of opinions here, just make sure you shoot enough of each load for it to matter. One 3 or 5 shot group of each load means almost nothing.
 
I start out by making a dummy cartridge that will function in the magazine and feed well into the action using the bullet I want to use. I then have a chamber cut to allow the bullet seated in that combination to just barely touch the rifling. Then I start with a mild load of powder and start increasing that powder charge, primarily looking for max speed without pressure signs. Once determined, I then start backing away from the lands. As stated in post #2, there is going to be a seating depth that works better at that velocity with that combination of stuff. I have tried to then increase the powder charge but the accuracy will fall off every single time...you have to then find another seating depth for that new velocity. I have done that but soon realized it a waste of time and resources.
 
My main bullets are Hornady ELDX or Sierra match king

Typically I start .020 off. I find the hornady like at least that. Typically .020-.030 off. SMK I run .010 - .015 in my 260 and 338 LM when I had that

My fclass 284 I run 180 Berger hybrid .010 off
 
I like to use a healthy jump if possible... so if I can get away with it, I like to try .100" off the lands and then see what that gets me.

When using a bigger jump I find that my vertical dispersion downrange is always better/more consistent... with the added side-effect of the barrels staying shooting the same for their whole usable lives (no chasing the lands or requiring any load adjustments as they wear and things change).

That said, with some cartridges/chambers, 100 off can put the bullet's bearing surface below the neck/shoulder junction and the bases pretty deep into the cases... which I'm not totally convinced is actually that bad... so sometimes I just jump as far as I can get away with.

...I should add that I don't really give a shit about 100-yard groups and don't really use them to make as many decisions about my load as some guys do... I just want a .5" group or less at 100, day-in-day-out without much fuss. IME all of my barrels will print smaller, sometimes .25" at 100, but as far as I can tell it has more to do with the stars aligning just right, or maybe what I had for breakfast or how I slept the night before, more so than dicking around with my load forever and wasting barrel-life shooting too many groups at 100. YMMV.
 
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Hey guys,
when you start reloading / testing a new bullet, how much do you set your bullet back from the lands?
No BR-loads, which I know, some do set the bullets right into the lands, but for "normal" rifles.

I´m starting f.e. with the
- .224ish set back around .02"
- .308ish set back around .04"

Where do you start and how close to the lands would you go?
:unsure:
Seating depth; there is alot of discussion on this-there is a good article in Accurate Shooter about the different ogives and how this affects the seating depth ( https://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/tangent-vs-secant-vs-hybrid-ogive-bullets/ ) -something I didn't know. It is quite a chore to establish just touching the lands or your benchmark of zero. To establish this the Hornady bullet comparator tool is a quick method and you have a reference for future to duplicate that loads seating depth. Another method is to load your bullets long, chamber them and if the bolt will not close or there is any resistance - keep running it through the bullet seating process succussively seating deeper each time until you get the bolt to close with no resistance. Thats your zero benchmark reference. Your die threading at 1/16 of an inch - which is 62/1000 per full rotation - 1/8 of a turn is 7/1000 and you can estimate pretty closely your distance off the lands. You may wish to load a dummy round for future-simply insert your dummy round into the shellholder and lower the seating die until you just make semi-firm contact - don't forget your loading presses furthest down push is a bit less that the full stroke. This exercise allows you to avoid buying more rifle goo-gas. Its not a method that accuracy target shooter uses but it works relativey well for someone who just wants to get it done. . I found accuracy at 0 to 10/1000 of an inch off the lands terrible. Around 13/1000 to 17/1000 seems to be the sweetspot. But seating the bullets deeper-ie; 20 to 60/1000 of an inch there isnt much change in accuracy and it is only moderatel less accurate (ie; 1/8 MOA) than at the 13/1000 to 17/1000 range off the lands. I went through this exercise twice loading 5 shells from land contact to 60/1000 of an inch off the lands in 5/1000 increments. That was a pile of reloading. To make your life simple-you may just want to seat your bullets at 20/1000 off the lands and be done with it. Benchrest shooters often have the bullets seated a few thousands into the lands with reduced loads. For normal loads max or near to max powder - land contact will increase pressures significantly. I personally avoid this and stick with that zone of 13-17/1000 off the lands. I have read blogs from more than one serious target shooter with more experience than me that seat 10-25/1000 " off the lands and never change it regardless of throat wear that may grow to 50/1000" or more. I will not argue with people with that experience nor have I shot out a barrel either. One thing I should add-in going through this exercise - you may find older guns, ex-military guns have a intended huge bullet jump and it is not possible to achieve seating depths of 20/1000 off the lands as the cartridge will not fit in the magazine, feed into or through the chamber/action. I found this with a military Husquavarna 6.5 x 55 Swede and a model 94 Winchester 32 Special.
 
Vld shoot best in a jam

I hear that some times from my BR friends but jam is really only viable for a competition style shooter that will never unchamber a round.....which are not many. I have found they can shoot very well without jamming and usually at the further distances off the lands in the range recommended by Litz for tuning. But, they are fincky bastards compared to hybrids so I have moved away from working up new loads with VLD's and only shoot them in 2 barrels now.
 
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I do .05, .10, .15,. 20" for most but use .15, .30, .45, .60" for Berger hybrids and .10, .40, .80, .120" for VLDs. Try those depths with a charge a few grains less than max and pick the best one. It is usually very obvious.
ggmanning; I take your advice and experience into account as I used Sierra benchrest bullets (tangent style ogives) almost exclusively although I tried many other varieties at the time-all being tangent ogives. I found the Sierra's BR a go to bullet at the time and if it didn't shoot Sierras well it wouldn't shoot anything well . This is still somewhat true even today. However, this was 15 plus years ago and the competition of all the other bullet makers and with the experimentation of bullet ogives and construction- there is better quality control and alot more variables and solid competition today . This makes the bullet selection and seating depth more complex than before. The article from Accurate Shooter describes the differences of bullet ogives shapes; the 3 main varieties being tangent, secant and hybrid (hybrid being a combination of both secant and tangent ogives) and how each one's ultimate accuracy is affected differently by seating depth. With for example the VLD secant bullets, the taper is relatively straight vs traditional tangent design which is curved making seating depth much more critical as land contact is abrupt. Thus the introduction of the hybrid bullets that attempts to get the benefits of both the higher velocity of secant ogives with a tangent style curve ogive introduced near to the land contact- making seating depth less critical. From what you are saying, the more straight taper secant style ogives need larger distances of bullet jump and hybrids a little more jump vs. the standard tangent style ogive related to seating depth. Thank you for your input as I have not went through this exercise of experimentation. Oddly enough, I just recently purchased hybrid and VLD secant style ogives for the first time last year without knowing they may require different seating depths than the traditional tangent style. Oddly enough, competetive shooters of long range shooting - F-class for example - they downplay the importance of seating depth saying that it has little affect on accuracy, whereas my experience has taught me that it does-not an enormous difference depending on how you judge this, but I think the difference between 3/8 MOA and 1/2 MOA quite significant-but thats just my opinion. Thats the kind of improvement one might expect... ie. 1/8 - 1/4 MOA from this exercise of experimenting with seating depth. One thing for certain, inadequate seating depth can have diasterous effects on accuracy as this can translate to differences of 1 to 1.5 MOA. This can happen relaively easily as determining the exact land contact to create your benchmark "zero" reference is difficult to do with precision no matter what method you use.