Ukraine war Bullshit.

#51
Cheap labor force needed , definetly more useful and skilled force with less of a conflict potential than the Arab or African imports
Particulary for Eastern europe that did not accept Muslim migrants en masse





Meanwhile Syria not quite ready for reeimgration
GhaTh5MWQAATKab
 
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#54
F16 program so far has been quite deadly for its pilots and instructors ,3 lost in crashes so far, now defender of Greenland was lost as well.

 
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#55
stanley_white said:
How would your daily life have improved if the U.S. did not support Ukraine?

Lowered taxes?

Lowered grocery bills?

Inquiring minds want to know…

-Stan
Click to expand...
Considering that fire-fighting equipment was sent from California to Ukraine, maybe some people would still have homes.

How is sending hundreds on billions of dollars to a random ass country across the world helping the US?
 
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#56
Eostech said:
How is sending hundreds on billions of dollars to a random ass country across the world help the US?
Click to expand...
It’s a low cost way to do multi-generational damage to the Russian military / keep them busy so the U.S. can fully focus on the Indo-Pacific.

It is a low cost way for the U.S. to learn war lessons that were never / would never be learned in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is a low cost testing ground for new capabilities, and their employment.

The U.S. is learning from Ukraine to shape defense procurement the same way they did from the Yom Kippur War (https://www.history.army.mil/html/books/069/69-4-1/cmhPub_69-4-1.pdf)

-Stan
 
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#59
stanley_white said:
It’s a low cost way to do multi-generational damage to the Russian military / keep them busy so the U.S. can fully focus on the Indo-Pacific.

It is a low cost way for the U.S. to learn war lessons that were never / would never be learned in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is a low cost testing ground for new capabilities, and their employment.

The U.S. is learning from Ukraine to shape defense procurement the same way they did from the Yom Kippur War (https://www.history.army.mil/html/books/069/69-4-1/cmhPub_69-4-1.pdf)

-Stan
Click to expand...
How many US vehicles are equipped with anti-drone screens despite the prolific use of them for the last three years? None.
Does the US military have a program to train and equip units with <$1k FPV drones despite widespread prolific use during the last three years? No.
How many Patriot systems has the US built to replace one destroyed in Ukraine? None.
Is the US manufacturing enough ordinance to replace what was sent to Ukraine? No.
Is the US still adopting the SIG Spear despite offering a limited to no real world capability increases? Yes.
Are the Marines still being gutted? Yes.
Will the F-35 ever be reliable enough to do more than periodic sorties against sand people? Maybe.
How are you going with the new and more expensive Stinger and Javelins?

Russian Military is stronger now then they were four years ago, veterans might even go back and start fucking like the end of all wars, somewhat restoring their population demographic without importing the third world like western countries.

Russia is now driven closer to China, these countries were never really historically friendly and this is a colossal fuck up, this is not great for US Indo-pacific interests. Given that a large part of US power projection relies on aircraft carriers and the war in Ukraine plus the Red Sea events show that missle interception is not successful as the MIC brochures, things could certainly be better.
 
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#60
Eostech said:
How many US vehicles are equipped with anti-drone screens despite the prolific use of them for the last three years? None.
Does the US military have a program to train and equip units with <$1k FPV drones despite widespread prolific use during the last three years? No.
How many Patriot systems has the US built to replace one destroyed in Ukraine? None.
Is the US manufacturing enough ordinance to replace what was sent to Ukraine? No.
Is the US still adopting the SIG Spear despite offering a limited to no real world capability increases? Yes.
Are the Marines still being gutted? Yes.
Will the F-35 ever be reliable enough to do more than periodic sorties against sand people? Maybe.
How are you going with the new and more expensive Stinger and Javelins?

Russian Military is stronger now then they were four years ago, veterans might even go back and start fucking like the end of all wars, somewhat restoring their population demographic without importing the third world like western countries.

Russia is now driven closer to China, these countries were never really historically friendly and this is a colossal fuck up, this is not great for US Indo-pacific interests. Given that a large part of US power projection relies on aircraft carriers and the war in Ukraine plus the Red Sea events show that missle interception is not successful as the MIC brochures, things could certainly be better.
Click to expand...


-Stan
 
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#61
stanley_white said:
It’s a low cost way to do multi-generational damage to the Russian military / keep them busy so the U.S. can fully focus on the Indo-Pacific.

It is a low cost way for the U.S. to learn war lessons that were never / would never be learned in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is a low cost testing ground for new capabilities, and their employment.

The U.S. is learning from Ukraine to shape defense procurement the same way they did from the Yom Kippur War (https://www.history.army.mil/html/books/069/69-4-1/cmhPub_69-4-1.pdf)

-Stan
Click to expand...

I'd say actually to your first point it did the exact opposite for the Russian Military.
Before the Ukraine war the Russian Military was a typical European style paper tiger with useless bloated generals and idiots in charge and stupid beaten up conscripts and ancient ideas about how to fight ancient wars by throwing enough bodies against the wall.
Their weapons were outdated cold war relics.


The Russians got a very costly but in the end well worth it lesson on modern warfare and if anything their understanding of modern warfare is actually going to be better than most of our generals and such.

They got a lot of their old ancient stuff blowed up for them and had an excuse to bring factories online to make new stuff and start training recruits and school children on how future wars would be fought.

They have learned a huge amount in a short time and the Chinese and North Koreans have been taking notes and attending class.

We also got them to start being Sovereign and not rely on their enemies for things they need...
We also forced them to start forging a new set of alliances and a new global trade order and new defense pacts.

The Chinese and North Koreans also just got a free update in their tactics and understanding of modern warfare.

I'm going to say in the end actually this war has made Russia stronger and more combat ready.

The pretty much illegal financial things the Western powers did to the Russians made a huge part of the world say, well you know about that whole Dollar business, let's stop feeding New Rome and letting them use their currency to control and plunder us.

I'd say in the end Russia actually will come to see this war as a turning point in building themselves back up again.
 
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#62
Docsherm said:
The Ukraine is great if you are looking for Human trafficking, money laundering, or illegal arms sales.
Click to expand...
That was mainly under Russian puppet rule with Yanukovych and Zlochevsky as CEO over Burisma.

Zlochevsky was an ethnic Russian from Donbas.

Putin made billions off of Ukraine, since nobody wants rubles.

When Yanukovych was thrown out, he lost his puppet and went to plan B with US Vice President Biden’s retard son, Hunter Biden, as an insurance policy to block the investigation into how he was using Burisma to launder his money.

When the new president Poroshenko was elected by the Ukrainian people, he made his close friend chief prosecutor, who took over the investigation into Burisma.

That was Viktor Shokin. Then Vice President Biden told Poroshenko, “You’re not getting the billion dollars until you fire the prosecutor."

iu


Biden has been on Russian payroll since 1972. Obama has been doing Putin’s bidding his whole political career.

Notice how the MSM covered for Biden all during those times, and said it was really Ukraine who was corrupt, nothing to the story about Biden extorting Poroshenko.

How did dumb as a rock Biden know that Poroshenko didn’t fire Shokin?

Poroshnko secretly kept Shokin on to continue the investigation into these corrupt Russian front shell companies because they knew they were dirty.

That’s when Putin ordered Shokin to be assassinated.

They tried sniping him through his office window, then he was poisoned with mercury.

He barely survived the mercury poisoning and went into hiding.

What did Putin not want the world finding out about in his money-laundering operations in Ukraine?
 
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#63
Eostech said:
Two faggots couldn’t control their egos and posted like 4 pages worth of crap.

Undoubtedly the Ukrainians, pretend or real, that posted in the thread are happy with the result.
Click to expand...
Speaking of faggots, I see you brought the same bitching and moaning to the new thread.

It’s not my fault old moron couldn’t google and started posting his pedophile fantasies. I just wanted to quote them all for the world to see before he could edit them(which he did), and he was too stupid to stop posting them.

Back to Ukraine, the place that’s not America but gets all of our money.
 
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#67
Eostech said:
Someone asked? stop being a faggot.

Ah yes an image that could be easily staged but was proven to be fake months ago. Great proof.
Click to expand...
Someone doesn’t understand baiting the butthurt, remember you brought this to the new thread… cry more.

Something something “control their egos”
 
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#69
W54/XM-388 said:
I'd say actually to your first point it did the exact opposite for the Russian Military.
Before the Ukraine war the Russian Military was a typical European style paper tiger with useless bloated generals and idiots in charge and stupid beaten up conscripts and ancient ideas about how to fight ancient wars by throwing enough bodies against the wall.
Their weapons were outdated cold war relics.


The Russians got a very costly but in the end well worth it lesson on modern warfare and if anything their understanding of modern warfare is actually going to be better than most of our generals and such.

They got a lot of their old ancient stuff blowed up for them and had an excuse to bring factories online to make new stuff and start training recruits and school children on how future wars would be fought.

They have learned a huge amount in a short time and the Chinese and North Koreans have been taking notes and attending class.

We also got them to start being Sovereign and not rely on their enemies for things they need...
We also forced them to start forging a new set of alliances and a new global trade order and new defense pacts.

The Chinese and North Koreans also just got a free update in their tactics and understanding of modern warfare.

I'm going to say in the end actually this war has made Russia stronger and more combat ready.

The pretty much illegal financial things the Western powers did to the Russians made a huge part of the world say, well you know about that whole Dollar business, let's stop feeding New Rome and letting them use their currency to control and plunder us.

I'd say in the end Russia actually will come to see this war as a turning point in building themselves back up again.
Click to expand...
Fake news there Bud. That's not what MSNBC, CNN and the others are saying as well as the defense department spokesman.
 
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#74
Haven't been paying much attention because most of the "information" being given to us does indeed seem to be bullshit...

But a few thoughts based on what little attention and focus I've given the conflict:

• Just like carrier-based aircraft were the death knell of battleships in WW2... It seems the advent and proliferation of man-portable weapons and UAV's are the death knell of reliance on massive armored columns.

• Artillery is still the biggest killer

• Comms and logistics still win wars

• Smaller, mobile ground forces supported by artillery and UAV's... Infantry equipped with MANPAD's, Shotguns, and good radios to call for fire missions.

Seems to me we are looking at a combination of a return to WW1 trench warfare and Terminatoresque "War against the machines" style of conflict.

With the technological advancements in portable anti-aircraft/armor weapons... Conventional armor and manned aircraft have become too easy to destroy. They will have to advance OR we will see the proliferation of light, fast, maneuverable, and CHEAP mass-produced unmanned platforms.

We've all seen the robot "dogs" equipped with machine guns and such... I'm waiting for the robot "dog" with an 81 mm mortar platform and sub-platforms to carry the ammo... (They probably already exist) Now your ground guys don't have to worry about giving away their position via radio. They can spot a target, set up Fido, and start pissing bad news on the enemy without anyone knowing they were there until rounds start coming in.

Just thinking out loud. I might be all wrong. But it seems like maneuverability and versatility are going to rule the battlefield.

Mike
 
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#75
375fan said:
I think the UK should be contributing that money to NATO in an effort to pay their fair share instead of wasting it by sending to Ukraine.,
Click to expand...

Sounds like it's well past time for us to be involved with NATO.

NATO has become a death cult, and personally I don't want to be a part of the destiny they are currently trying to self-manifest right now.
 
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#77
stanley_white said:
How would your daily life have improved if the U.S. did not support Ukraine?

Lowered taxes?

Lowered grocery bills?

Inquiring minds want to know…

-Stan
Click to expand...

It's not about today or necessarily tomorrow.

It would be if our government actually put our country and Americans first, which it doesn't.

If our money wasn't going to Ukraine, the money would be going to some other global conflict that doesn't benefit Americans. Stopping the funding of Ukraine won't have immediate benefits to Americans, because that money will never be reallocated to Americans.

But it's all part of the bigger picture. Our country is now what? $35T in debt? And growing at a seemingly exponential rate. A large part of this is due to our rampant spending on our military and intelligence industrial complex, among other things.

What happens to Americans and that debt when say the day comes that the US dollar is no longer the worlds reserve currency?

Another aspect is blowback. How many Americans are going to get killed in the future by weapons we sold to Ukraine? Are we going to have Ukrainian terrorists in 10 years, who want to attack the US and Americans because we helped destroy their country and a generation of Ukrainians?

And how does increasing tensions with another nuclear power help Americans? The trend in escalation between us and Russia is pretty worrisome. Where does this all lead to? Are Americans going to be better off when we have more adverse relationships with nuclear adversaries?
 
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#78
stanley_white said:
It’s a low cost way to do multi-generational damage to the Russian military / keep them busy so the U.S. can fully focus on the Indo-Pacific.

It is a low cost way for the U.S. to learn war lessons that were never / would never be learned in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is a low cost testing ground for new capabilities, and their employment.

The U.S. is learning from Ukraine to shape defense procurement the same way they did from the Yom Kippur War (https://www.history.army.mil/html/books/069/69-4-1/cmhPub_69-4-1.pdf)

-Stan
Click to expand...

This neocon thinking is exactly the result of our disastrous foreign policy implemented in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Libya, etc.

And it's currently turning out to be a disaster in Ukraine.

Spending billions to fight monsters abroad does nothing to help Americans at home. It only makes us worse off.

Saying it's "cheaper to fight them over there" is a false dichotomy.

We have zero business engaging Russia in proxy wars. It does not benefit Americans, it only makes us worse off.
 
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#79
kthomas said:
Sounds like it's well past time for us to be involved with NATO.

NATO has become a death cult, and personally I don't want to be a part of the destiny they are currently trying to self-manifest right now.
Click to expand...
if you watch this film, you may also be convinced that the UN is evil and needs to be kicked out of the country.
this sort of thing has happened in virtually every country the UN is deployed in numbers.
of course, this is just one of the issues i have, along with their funding of hamas terrorists, and their programs to flood america with migrants.

whistleblower-118.jpg
 
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#84
stanley_white said:
It’s a low cost way to do multi-generational damage to the Russian military / keep them busy so the U.S. can fully focus on the Indo-Pacific.

It is a low cost way for the U.S. to learn war lessons that were never / would never be learned in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is a low cost testing ground for new capabilities, and their employment.

The U.S. is learning from Ukraine to shape defense procurement the same way they did from the Yom Kippur War (https://www.history.army.mil/html/books/069/69-4-1/cmhPub_69-4-1.pdf)

-Stan
Click to expand...
Honest question: do you consider $175 billion in aid to Ukraine (a material percentage of which has been taken via corruption in Ukraine) and the loss of a couple generations of Ukrainian men to be low-cost? What number of Ukrainian deaths would you consider to be high cost?
 
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#85
lariat said:
Honest question: do you consider $175 billion in aid to Ukraine (a material percentage of which has been taken via corruption in Ukraine) and the loss of a couple generations of Ukrainian men to be low-cost? What number of Ukrainian deaths would you consider to be high cost?
Click to expand...
I can only comment from a U.S. perspective.

$175 billion is a rounding error compared to the $4 trillion spent in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

And please note, “What I consider” isn’t me or my beliefs or my opinions or me trying to convince anyone of anything, it is the reality that I see, and it truly doesn’t matter because I don’t have the power to influence anything anyway.

-Stan
 
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#89
stanley_white said:
I can only comment from a U.S. perspective.

$175 billion is a rounding error compared to the $4 trillion spent in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

And please note, “What I consider” isn’t me or my beliefs or my opinions or me trying to convince anyone of anything, it is the reality that I see, and it truly doesn’t matter because I don’t have the power to influence anything anyway.

-Stan
Click to expand...
no power of influence? welcome to the club.
 
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#100
Emerson0311 said:
Someone will come for him. Too much big money and criminal activity around him for a dumb stooge like that to live out his days.
Click to expand...

It will be interesting to see what happens to him.

He originally ran on a platform of peace and reconciliation, but I believe ultra-nationalistic neo-Nazis Nazis, like those in the Azov battalion and C14 group, threatened to kill Zelensky if he didn't take a more nationalistic approach. The C14 group is a group that was complicit in turning the Maidan Coup violent, in which the democratically elected leader Yanakovich was overthrown. And of course, this was all backed by our State Department and CIA.

Fast forward to present day, I can't imagine Zelensky will be very popular at the end of this war. Sounds like there's around 600-700k Ukrainians dead so far, with many more injured. This war will likely end in a negotiated settlement where Ukraine loses land, any prospect of joining NATO/EU, and a generation of men wiped out.

I think many in Ukraine are going to be left wondering why this war was fought. Especially given the earlier peace deals that would've left Ukraine much better off than the position they are in today.

I don't think Zelensky will be a popular figure at home. But I guess we will see.

I also think this conflict is going to forment a lot of hate for the west - and I don't blame them. We baited them into this conflict with false hope and promises, only to completely take advantage of them. I personally would not be surprised if terrorist threats come out of Ukraine against the west in the future.
 
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