Ukraine war Bullshit.

[AZLong]

Well, the war can either stop now or everything can be ground to rubble with back and forth fighting. Is that a good option?

It is not a binary equation.

Russia is taking territory and neither Ukraine nor NATO have stopped it. It may be time to recognize that this slow grind was the intention the whole time by both sides. Russia wears down Ukraine and NATO while getting the land they want and the corporate interests get to rebuild what’s left.

Nothing wrong with negotiating peace. It is the most desirable end. But you do so from a position of strength, not giving everything away before you start.

Ukraine is now effectively a broken up backwater slave state. The US has no appetite for continuing to spend money on a losing battle nor risk an escalation that goes thermonuclear. Ukraine was taken advantage of on all sides and never realized that she was the meal, not the host.

Alternatively you can take it the other way: Victoria nuland and the other neocons badly miscalculated along with NATO and the result is still the same - Ukraine loses everything. Negotiations or not, that’s the ultimate result.

You do not know the result. And negotiating an end to the war without the victim at the table is insanity. And the way it is being done, it really is not much of a negotiation. Donny is simply asking Vlad what he wants.

 

[roostercogburn98]

a pseudo-military wank-fest

 

[BobKaare]

They literally have a state sponsored kill list of anyone criticizing the regime in Kiev...

 

[lariat]

It is not a binary equation.



Nothing wrong with negotiating peace. It is the most desirable end. But you do so from a position of strength, not giving everything away before you start.



You do not know the result. And negotiating an end to the war without the victim at the table is insanity. And the way it is being done, it really is not much of a negotiation. Donny is simply asking Vlad what he wants.

At this point it is completely a binary equation. Russia has determined that they will continue as long as it takes and NATO is still pushing to keep going even though they have few resources to contribute. No one is talking about Ukraine as an entity in all of this any longer. Its now just the battle space to carve up for assets when it’s all over.

Ukraine has no position of strength. And the countries of NATO are either unwilling or unable to give them anything that can provide it. If they were it would have been done by now.

Trump isn’t wrong. It’s crazy, but he may just be the only adult in the room and appears to be one of the very few in NATO who has some regard for the Ukrainian people.

 

[AZLong]

ukraine did start the conflict, back in 2014.
ukrainian nazis attacked the people in the donbas that voted for independence from the cia backed regime.

Russia invaded Ukraine (Crimea) and "annexed" it. Now they want the rest of it, by installing a pro-Putin puppet again. But Vlad's a nice guy, it'll be fine. Just fine.

 

[AZLong]

At this point it is a binary equation. Russia has determined that they will continue as long as it takes and NATO is still pushing to keep going. No one is talking about Ukraine as an entity in all of this any longer. It just the battle space.

Ukraine has no position of strength. And the countries of NATO are either unwilling or unable to give them anything that can provide it. If they were it would have been done by now.

There are many paths to peace, so it is not. Giving up before you start certainly is one path. Not a good one, but it is a path.

 

[oneshot86]

These warriors that you speak of. Were they the same ones shelling the eastern provinces before Russia decided that killing women and children needed to stop? Fighting for their "democracy" that no longer has elections, jails anyone that has a different opinion, shuts down churches, abducts people on the street and puts them on the front lines?

That's right

 

[Makinchips208]

It is not a binary equation.



Nothing wrong with negotiating peace. It is the most desirable end. But you do so from a position of strength, not giving everything away before you start.



You do not know the result. And negotiating an end to the war without the victim at the table is insanity. And the way it is being done, it really is not much of a negotiation. Donny is simply asking Vlad what he wants.

First thing first, zelinsky needs to go.

Then maybe whats left of ukraine can elect someone who can have a seat at the table.

 

[theLBC]

Russia invaded Ukraine (Crimea) and "annexed" it. Now they want the rest of it, by installing a pro-Putin puppet again. But Vlad's a nice guy, it'll be fine. Just fine.

why in the world do you think they did that?
could it possibly be because the cia overthrew the russian friendly regime and replaced it with one that was hostile to russians and their own ethnic russian ukrainian citizens?

 

[AZLong]

why in the world do you think they did that?
could it possibly be because the cia overthrew the russian friendly regime and replaced it with one that was hostile to russians and their own ethnic russian ukrainian citizens?

You can *believe* anything you like. Russia invaded a sovereign country, that is a fact. If you *believe* they were justified, Vlad appreciates your support.

 

[Fig]

They're all Russians to me, but if you want to make the distinction Crimea was always where the commies would go on vacation, it has always been solidly, ethnically Russian, and it wasn't even part of Ukraine till Khrushchev, Andropov, Brezhnev, or one of those fuckers, made a big public show of giving it to them for some unknown, internal political thing (I think it was in the '70s but it could have been earlier).

Donbas was always more ethnically Russian than the rest of Ukraine, but Putin's story eerily echo's Hitler's story for invading the Sudetenland, and there is absolutely no question that Putin was sending veterans/mercenaries into Ukraine to fight for years and years before the war. That isn't to say that a lot (or even a majority) welcomed them, but it happened, and pretending that Nazis caused the war is bullshit. What was happening in Donbas was steady escalation on the sovereign territory of a Russian neighbor, and they have a long history of invading their neighbors. Fact.

I think the bottom line was that this was another USAID/CIA color revolution that went wrong mostly because Putin wasn't having it, and while he may be a commie pining for the good old days of the Soviets, he is not that kind of leftist who is down with a Trans world full of sterile mutants whose only skill is internet outrage culture, and in the minds of Democrats that makes him a Republican. That, and all the Democrat money laundering that has been going on there since the fall of the USSR, is why the communist, anti-American, and normally dovish party has become so bloodthirsty for Russians, and single-minded in pursuit of war.

 

[lariat]

There are many paths to peace, so it is not. Giving up before you start certainly is one path. Not a good one, but it is a path.

Getting your entire people group killed isn’t good either. That is what is occurring. So yes, when you have an overwhelming adversary that isn’t stopping and Allie’s that keep pushing you to die for their own selfish reasons at some point you have to realize you and your people are being used as cannon fodder. The Ukes have figured this out. Their corrupt politicians are still making money on their death so the war continues.

There is no position of strength. But what’s in view is a position of subjugation. Ukraine isn’t going to win nor are they going to come back from this whole. In geopolitics you must choose your friends wisely.

But there is another thing regarding the negotiations - there is every possibility that Z doesn’t negotiate in good faith with the US. He may very well negotiate in the way his NATO handlers want and extend the war. I have no idea, but it may be that he is too big of a risk to allow at the table. I could see that as solid reasoning given how the rest of NATO is pushing him to continue on, while depending on US arms and dollars - other people’s money. Everyone is using the US taxpayers for what they want. They are mostly all parasites. If they want to fight Russia via Ukraine, have at it, but the American taxpayer is by and large done. We have our own issues to deal with instead of a fight between relatives in their own house.

 

[Rthur]

Real warriors are fighting and dying in Ukrainian trenches with the kind of honour becoming the ultimate in human courage of men defending their women and children from fascist russian scum. Meanwhile, over here you've an odd bunch of patently yella bedroom-dwellers, many with inexplicably weird homo-erotic names, who are revelling in a pseudo-military wank-fest in a place ironically called a ‘bear pit’. #cooljuxtaposition

Shut yer whore mouth.
I'd guess by your handle you're from Europe.
You've gotten used to saber rattling because the EU/NATO have previously had US to back you up.
Those days are gone.
Your militaries have wasted away while we've covered all your pissant countries.
Get your checkbook out and see how many young men you can piss away.

R

 

[kalashnikev]

Vance claims up front that Ukraine will not get into NATO or their lost country back.
Trump claims Ukraine will not get all their sovereign land back.
Trump now blames Ukraine for starting the war.

Negotiations are starting with the US blindfolded and all limbs tied behind back. And the president of the country victimized and invaded by the one we are negotiating with is excluded from negotiations. This should go well...

*YAWN*

What do the actual Ukrainian people say about Rooskie invaders on their land?

Everyone already knew Trump was going to surrender. It was a bit of a surprise that it took him a month to do it. It was SUPER INTERESTING that he chose to go into the Terror Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, with the organizer of all transnational jihad sitting at the head of the table- Mohammed Bone Sawman- and ritually disgrace the United States... in front of the Arabs.

The Riyadh Surrender is just a follow-on to the much more important Helsinki Surrender that was delivered by Trump on the 100th Anniversary of the Communist Revolution, on the border of East and West.

 

[oneshot86]

Fuck Ukraine

Double fuck Europe.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

You can *believe* anything you like. Russia invaded a sovereign country, that is a fact. If you *believe* they were justified, Vlad appreciates your support.

Your tears are soooo tasty. Keep up the crying.

 

[lariat]

I fail to understand why almost no one wants to realize that none of the power players care about Ukraine and sleep well at night using an entire nation for their own purposes and the world’s taxable income to do it while never suffering one iota themselves.

 

[Fig]

Shut yer whore mouth.
I'd guess by your handle you're from Europe.
You've gotten used to saber rattling because the EU/NATO have previously had US to back you up.
Those days are gone.
Your militaries have wasted away while we've covered all your pissant countries.
Get your checkbook out and see how many young men you can piss away.

R

If you were worth defending we may have something to talk about, but as far as I can see you are more than happy to have your entire culture destroyed by Arab invaders bringing you submission. Enjoy your servile Dhimmitude without us.

My bingo card in the next few years has a second wave of European refugees fleeing EU oppression and yearning to breathe free.

 

[W54/XM-388]

negotiating an end to the war without the victim at the table is insanity.

Actually it makes perfect sense.
Nobody on either side ever thought of the Ukrainians as anything but useful corrupt cannon fodder.
If you thought the USA or the NWO or even the EU actually though of the Ukrainians as anything but slav serfs good for nothing but the resources of their land, that was you being deluded.

Both sides know really it's all about what BlackRock wants vs what Russia wants and essentially why would they let the serfs come to the negotiation table with the masters?

The USA doesn't even care at all what the EU and NATO think because in the end, it's only the USA and the USA corporations that matter, once the USA decides the matter, either the Ukraine/EU/NATO will go along, or well, they will find out how long they last when the USA turns off the support...

 

[theLBC]

You can *believe* anything you like. Russia invaded a sovereign country, that is a fact. If you *believe* they were justified, Vlad appreciates your support.

we invaded iraq, afghanistan, syria, libya...
don't support vlad, but i don't feel we have the right to throw stones....

 

[W54/XM-388]

I fail to understand why almost no one wants to realize that none of the power players care about Ukraine and sleep well at night using an entire nation for their own purposes and the world’s taxable income to do it while never suffering one iota themselves.

Because those same folks are the ones that control the media, control the communications, control the governments and control the wealth of nations.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

invaded a sovereign country,

sovereign

 

[Fig]

It won't be pretty if the US withdraws their protection of Europe, but ultimately that may be the only way Europe survives and remains European.

The Muslim hoards were turned back at Tours and then again The Gates of Vienna only to have a full on invasion welcomed by your very own wise rulers. Honestly, you get exactly what you deserve.

 

[lariat]

Because those same folks are the ones that control the media, control the communications, control the governments and control the wealth of nations.

I know you are right. But then I have to confront in my own mind what I already know - how gullible and simple minded the masses are. And that’s a dark conclusion because it means this type of stuff will keep happening. For safety of course…

 

[Fig]

... or for the children.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

na for Democracy.

 

[Docsherm]

I find it very funny that people still think the bad guys are the Russians.......

 

[Fig]

Well, in fairness, I was running and singing jodies about killing rooskie commies probably before you were born. My view of Russians has always been that of a tough as nails adversary who believed in authoritarian collectivism just as strongly as we believe in liberty. They were, quite simply, the enemy we were training to fight.

 

[AZLong]

Your tears are soooo tasty. Keep up the crying.

I am really unclear as to why you take the time to post this pointless drivel. I obviously have less interest in what happens in Ukraine than you do.

 

[kalashnikev]

Nobody on either side ever thought of the Ukrainians as anything but useful corrupt cannon fodder.

That's what the Kremlin propaganda of today will tell you, but nobody with the Brain Unit switched on is slurping that Commie drool.

This is just another chapter in the war between the Free World (Western Liberal Democracy) vs the Evil Empire (Authoritarian Despotism).

It's not as-old-as when Patton said we should have been slaying Rooskie Animals by the thousands either... it's even older than the Commies, and it has its roots in the Golden Horde conquering the people of Olde-Tyme-Rus and then transitioning to the rule of the Tsars... which is not "their word for a King."

 

[AZLong]

sovereign

View attachment 8621540

Oh, do tell. And I am using a phrase, that contains that word. Please do enlighten me as to how I am misusing the phrase.

 

[W54/XM-388]

That's what the Kremlin propaganda of today will tell you, but nobody with the Brain Unit switched on is slurping that Commie drool.

This is just another chapter in the war between the Free World (Western Liberal Democracy) vs the Evil Empire (Authoritarian Despotism).

It's not as-old-as when Patton said we should have been slaying Rooskie Animals by the thousands either... it's even older than the Commies, and it has its roots in the Golden Horde conquering the people of Olde-Tyme-Rus and then transitioning to the rule of the Tsars... which is not "their word for a King."

If you think the USA actually cares about the Ukraine as anything but simply a chess pawn... in the words of Jeff Foxworthy, "Here's your sign"
If you think England and Germany and France and Poland actually care about the Ukraine other than as a means to their own goals and power... Well you already got one sign, don't think you need another.

 

[AZLong]

If you think the USA actually cares about the Ukraine as anything but simply a chess pawn... in the words of Jeff Foxworthy, "Here's your sign"

If by "USA" you mean Donald Trump, agree 100%

If you think England and Germany and France and Poland actually care about the Ukraine other than as a means to their own goals and power... Well you already got one sign, don't think you need another.

Just like they didn't care about German aggression in 1935. Got it.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Oh, do tell. And I am using a phrase, that contains that word. Please do enlighten me as to how I am misusing the phrase.

how about you explain what it means and how it applies to the way in which you used it.

But I know you wont, because that is not your MO.

 

[Docsherm]

Well, in fairness, I was running and singing jodies about killing rooskie commies probably before you were born. My view of Russians has always been that of a tough as nails adversary who believed in authoritarian collectivism just as strongly as we believe in liberty. They were, quite simply, the enemy we were training to fight.

Unlikely..... if that were true you would be way too old to know what a computer is.....

I too am a cold way Vet. I get it. The plastic pop up targets that the Army uses we the old Soviet outlines well into the 2000s.

Things change.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

 

[kalashnikev]

If you think the USA actually cares about the Ukraine as anything but simply a chess pawn... in the words of Jeff Foxworthy, "Here's your sign"

Well, that would be the Kremlin messaging that has been adopted by their Pawn in the Oval Office... but factually, this is false.

Americans believe in our values and culture, and believe in the liberation of former Iron Curtain countries.

We welcome them into the Free World- just as we welcome Commies into the Next World...

 

[AZLong]

how about you explain what it means and how it applies to the way in which you used it.

But I know you wont, because that is not your MO.

OMG. As per usual, you make a moronic claim and decline to support it. It is SOP here, apparently. It really would be much easier to simply not post. Oh well.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-word/sovereign-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_date_of_formation

Expert Comment: Three decades on, Ukraine, a sovereign country, is fighting a war for independence | University of Oxford

Some of the most common questions about the war in Ukraine, inspiring column inches and much conversation, are: why did Russia do it and who knew Ukrainians would be so resolute?By Dr Marnie Howlett, departmental lecturer in Russian and East European Politics in the Department of Politics and IR...

www.ox.ac.uk

 

[theLBC]

OMG. As per usual, you make a moronic claim and decline to support it. It is SOP here, apparently. It really would be much easier to simply not post. Oh well.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-word/sovereign-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_date_of_formation

Expert Comment: Three decades on, Ukraine, a sovereign country, is fighting a war for independence | University of Oxford

Some of the most common questions about the war in Ukraine, inspiring column inches and much conversation, are: why did Russia do it and who knew Ukrainians would be so resolute?By Dr Marnie Howlett, departmental lecturer in Russian and East European Politics in the Department of Politics and IR...

www.ox.ac.uk

lol, funded by usaid, darpa and others.

Major funders

Application guidance for main research funders and schemes

researchsupport.admin.ox.ac.uk

isn't it about time for your next covid booster?

 

[AZLong]

lol, funded by usaid, darpa and others.

Major funders

Application guidance for main research funders and schemes

researchsupport.admin.ox.ac.uk

isn't it about time for your next covid booster?

You really should learn to read...AND comprehend. The point of the link was to provide context to the term "sovereign country". Any other brilliant points you would like to make? The breadth and scope of your cluelessness is astounding.

 

[kalashnikev]

Things change.

Things change slowly in the East- but in Russia they don't change.

The Ivan targets were adopted in 1986, and have the vague contour of a Kalashnikov rifle/ magazine.

They would be rolling on the floor to know that Mother Russia was fielding Mosin Nagants on the battlefield ~40 years later.

The same Commies that used to head Design Bureaus and Production Bureaus now head the "companies." Just like their fathers- they still don't know what exactly the work is about or how it gets done (or doesn't).

The Hammer and Sickle banner is on the march... and the Free World just keeps hitting the snooze button, despite being well prepared to meet it.

 

[Docsherm]

Things change slowly in the East- but in Russia they don't change.

The Ivan targets were adopted in 1986, and have the vague contour of a Kalashnikov rifle/ magazine.

They would be rolling on the floor to know that Mother Russia was fielding Mosin Nagants on the battlefield 40 years later.

The same Commies that used to head Design Bureaus and Production Bureaus now head the "companies." Just like their fathers- they still don't know what exactly the work is about or how it gets done (or doesn't).

The Hammer and Sickle banner is on the march... and the Free World just keeps hitting the snooze button, despite being well prepared to meet it.

So, since things never change..... are you saying that the US should have sided with Germany in WWII against the USSR?

 

[theLBC]

You really should learn to read...AND comprehend. The point of the link was to provide context to the term "sovereign country". Any other brilliant points you would like to make? The breadth and scope of your cluelessness is astounding.

lol, you posted a link that was funded by usaid and the war mongering deep state to defend Ukraine as a "sovereign" nation?
they are a puppet state.

 

[theLBC]

 

[Docsherm]

And people wonder why shitty joe had all of his pardons take effect at the beginning of 2014........

 

[LeftyJason]

Real warriors are fighting and dying in Ukrainian trenches with the kind of honour becoming the ultimate in human courage of men defending their women and children from fascist russian scum. Meanwhile, over here you've an odd bunch of patently yella bedroom-dwellers, many with inexplicably weird homo-erotic names, who are revelling in a pseudo-military wank-fest in a place ironically called a ‘bear pit’. #cooljuxtaposition

I sometimes miss some of the old members.

 

[kalashnikev]

So, since things never change..... are you saying that the US should have sided with Germany in WWII against the USSR?

We emerged from WWII victorious over the Nazis. At that moment in time, the world was weary of war, and Russia was HEAVILY depleted of men and resources. We showed grace and mercy by allowing the Commies to retain power.

What turned into the "Cold War" need not have happened, but it did because we were unwilling to continue to fight Evil. The Cold War was also good for Biz.

Since the Iron Curtain fell, we have engaged in actual kinetic/ "Hot" war against... others, but we AGAIN showed grace and mercy to the Commies by allowing them to retain power under a new label, and after we saw that the Captain Marko Aleksandrovich Ramius' of the great Soviet Empire were just brain dead junkshooters and drunks stumbling around in a toxic waste dump.

We now find ourselves upon yet-another milestone in the battle between the Free World and the Evil Empire... again at a point where their economy is in ruins, a generation of their young men are in the ground, and they are begging for weapons from Iran and North Korea just to remain viable.

It won't be "grace and mercy" if we let the Commies get off without-consequence the third time- it will be foolishness, treason, and compromise.

 

[Docsherm]

We emerged from WWII victorious over the Nazis. At that moment in time, the world was weary of war, and Russia was HEAVILY depleted of men and resources. We showed grace and mercy by allowing the Commies to retain power.

What turned into the "Cold War" need not have happened, but it did because we were unwilling to continue to fight Evil. The Cold War was also good for Biz.

Since the Iron Curtain fell, we have engaged in actual kinetic/ "Hot" war against... others, but we AGAIN showed grace and mercy to the Commies by allowing them to retain power under a new label, and after we saw that the Captain Marko Aleksandrovich Ramius' of the great Soviet Empire were just brain dead junkshooters and drunks stumbling around in a toxic waste dump.

We now find ourselves upon yet-another milestone in the battle between the Free World and the Evil Empire... again at a point where their economy is in ruins, a generation of their young men are in the ground, and they are begging for weapons from Iran and North Korea just to remain viable.

It won't be "grace and mercy" if we let the Commies get off without-consequence the third time- it will be foolishness, treason, and compromise.

I will ask again. Should we have sided with Germany in their war with the USSR?

 

[UKDslayer]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/02/we-dont-owe-you-single-cent-you-bastards/




liberal grifter

 

[Fig]

That's what the Kremlin propaganda of today will tell you, but nobody with the Brain Unit switched on is slurping that Commie drool.

This is just another chapter in the war between the Free World (Western Liberal Democracy) vs the Evil Empire (Authoritarian Despotism).

It's not as-old-as when Patton said we should have been slaying Rooskie Animals by the thousands either... it's even older than the Commies, and it has its roots in the Golden Horde conquering the people of Olde-Tyme-Rus and then transitioning to the rule of the Tsars... which is not "their word for a King."

Hey knit wit, have you not seen the fawning 60 Minutes segment on Germany is imprisoning people for criticizing their government and policies. If the term "Western Democracies" means anything useful or principled it would seem that Western Europe is fast being lost from within, and the Eastern Europeans are the only ones who actually believe in and will protect basic human rights and liberties.

You should watch Vance's speech in Munich. He pretty much nails reality and dispels bullshit terms that no longer apply like "Western Democracies". There is no such thing as authoritarianism or totalitarianism in the service of liberal government and human rights. The things are opposites, and it makes about as much sense as fighting racism by instilling more racism in our children, which is another leftist policy.

You are the same fucking people we fight every single time, and you are constantly looking backwards through a distorted lens and calling us what you in fact are. There aren't "good" authoritarians unless you are talking kings ruling over an ignorant people who have a shitty culture. Then pushing for democracy or federalism is just stupid, as we have found yet again by our adventures in the Middle East. A king is right for those people.