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Ukraine war Bullshit.


The broader context of the Russia-Ukraine conflict provides critical insight into this operation’s implications. Since Russia’s invasion in February 2022, Ukraine has relied heavily on innovative tactics to counter Moscow’s numerical and technological advantages.
The Black Sea has become a testing ground for these strategies, with Ukrainian drones and missiles sinking or damaging approximately 26 Russian warships, including the flagship Moskva, according to the National Interest. Turkey’s closure of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits to military vessels has prevented Russia from reinforcing its Black Sea Fleet, making it increasingly vulnerable to Ukrainian attacks.

 
surprise,surprise
"this" is not the Church

The Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) has advised against rushing to bury the body of Vladimir Lenin, echoing the Kremlin's position on the untimeliness of this idea, which has been discussed in Russian society for decades
Supporters of the burial consider the very idea of maintaining a mausoleum to be blasphemous, while opponents, including representatives of the Communist Party, insist on the historical significance of Lenin's figure and oppose removing his body from Red Square
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I heard a verified rumour through a Ukrainian girl working undercover at a massage shop that Zelensky is days away from delivering 'terms of surrender' documents in person to Putin. If Putin fails to accept the offer Zelensky will take Moscow by force.

Apparently Putin has only weeks left to live due to a terminal medical condition, the same conditions he's had for a decade and had weeks left to live each time.


Zelensky will livestream the event which is expected to include Zelensky playing 'Horst-Wessel-Lied' on the Kremlin piano with his cock.

Hoping SNB, Starmer or Macron can confirm the rumours.
 



The broader context of the Russia-Ukraine conflict provides critical insight into this operation’s implications. Since Russia’s invasion in February 2022, Ukraine has relied heavily on innovative tactics to counter Moscow’s numerical and technological advantages.
The Black Sea has become a testing ground for these strategies, with Ukrainian drones and missiles sinking or damaging approximately 26 Russian warships, including the flagship Moskva, according to the National Interest. Turkey’s closure of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits to military vessels has prevented Russia from reinforcing its Black Sea Fleet, making it increasingly vulnerable to Ukrainian attacks.



Too funny. Let the dancing in the streets begin. Meanwhile a few hundred ukes are killed in their retreat back to Kiev from the eastern provinces.
 
yea,Russians can't build shit. the T-34 was no good at all against the German tanks of 41-43. AK is a POS that only been in use for pushing 80 years,Makarov misfired 1/2 the time,mig 15 never matched the f 86. bull shit. we and the Germans had better trained tank crew,grunts and pilots. that was the winning factor. the Germans were hugely successful at 1st but got so over extended that they had no chance to win,prob after Smolensk '41. we did feed the Russians enough to win like FDR wanted.
i keep harping on your blather. but WHY should we be involved at all in Ukraine,Caucasus or eastern Europe. you always carry on like a neocon that thinks we can,should or could control everything everywhere. protect our shinning allies and throw as many bodies into the mix as needed. seems like you believe that our MIC deserves whatever sacrifice needed to keep them fat and happy. you present a lot of facts mixed in with a lot of questionable conclusions. looks like you think pissing away trillions on foreign adventures is more important than rebuilding infrastructure here; places like Maui,NoCarolina,LA,FL. i mean,after all,keeping Z and his crew rich and powerful is what really matters.
hate to think it but it starts to look like Trump is out of his depth re foreign policy. does he want to continue to goad Russia or does he want to normalize relations? either way this mineral deal is a delusional pipe dream. he might be on to something with the tariffs. if we have China by the balls,we'll see if they keep creeping farther into the Pacific. that might be a big deal.
Russia has deteriorated significantly in its military industrial capacity. They always cranked out low airframe life trash, but now their fighter-manufacturing has been consolidated into a tiny building in Eastern Russia much closer to Japan than it is to Moscow. They are a shell of their former selves when it comes to MIC.

The US and almost every other nation doesn’t want Russia at the doorstep of Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Hungary again. It has nothing to do with political ideology and everything to do with containment of a bad actor who disrupted regional stability.

Russia showed the world though that it can’t even take ground like it did when it was equipped with US Lend-Lease in WWII, so nobody is going to take them as seriously anymore. 3 years and how much did the map change vs the cemeteries?

Trump tried to massage an offramp for Putin, which he didn’t take. Trump framed the peace talks in a way as if Putin could claim victory and then cease fire, but instead of doing that, Putin thought he could flex and continue fighting. So now he ticked off Trump, who will now likely start to give Ukraine game-changing weapons, not the outdated obsolete stuff we were going to de-mil.

The mantra about this being a US MIC-funded and focused campaign is retarded, as I’ve said repeatedly. All the major US and even European contractors are way back-ordered to entirely different countries who pay top dollar. Ukraine is not one of them.

There are no trillions being sent to Ukraine. I agree in US first, and those are entirely different line-items in the National budget.

The mineral deal is the best proposal anyone has put forth in this whole mess, as it places a major political barrier on Putin and Russia from violating a peace deal.
 
Russia has deteriorated significantly in its military industrial capacity. They always cranked out low airframe life trash, but now their fighter-manufacturing has been consolidated into a tiny building in Eastern Russia much closer to Japan than it is to Moscow. They are a shell of their former selves when it comes to MIC.

The US and almost every other nation doesn’t want Russia at the doorstep of Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Hungary again. It has nothing to do with political ideology and everything to do with containment of a bad actor who disrupted regional stability.

Russia showed the world though that it can’t even take ground like it did when it was equipped with US Lend-Lease in WWII, so nobody is going to take them as seriously anymore. 3 years and how much did the map change vs the cemeteries?

Trump tried to massage an offramp for Putin, which he didn’t take. Trump framed the peace talks in a way as if Putin could claim victory and then cease fire, but instead of doing that, Putin thought he could flex and continue fighting. So now he ticked off Trump, who will now likely start to give Ukraine game-changing weapons, not the outdated obsolete stuff we were going to de-mil.

The mantra about this being a US MIC-funded and focused campaign is retarded, as I’ve said repeatedly. All the major US and even European contractors are way back-ordered to entirely different countries who pay top dollar. Ukraine is not one of them.

There are no trillions being sent to Ukraine. I agree in US first, and those are entirely different line-items in the National budget.

The mineral deal is the best proposal anyone has put forth in this whole mess, as it places a major political barrier on Putin and Russia from violating a peace deal.
damn. neocons gotta neocon.
the billions in cash weapons and misc aid that has gone to Ukraine is all a hallucination? everyone aware or involved,including the Obiden crew is making that up?
the known,documented and confirmed luxury spending by Z,his wife and his posse is just stuff made up by Putin?
the US labeled weapons sent to Ukraine and recovered from or seen in the hands of cartel players is just Russian photo shopping?
the billions going to our MIC doesn't come from Ukraine-true. comes from the US taxpayer. it is funneled back to them after passing thru Uke hands. ie after a large handling fee. that was even admitted in a dem congressional speech.
i guess Russia has really gone balls to the wall and can't win at all. or,maybe,they learned their lesson in WW2 with 8+ mil combat deaths. gave up on the mass frontal assault thing and trying something else? hard to know but we learned nothing in VN or ME. but low cost,only about 65K or so KIA.
the freely admitted about 50% of cash sent to Ukraine being missing and unable to be accounted for is just fine.
oh my,oh my we and "other nations" don't want Russia moving west. who gives a fuck? let the "other nations" (on the same continent) deal with it.
we have never had anything to lose in Europe worth 1$ or 1 life. we have spent much more than that since 1917. president TJ could not have been more right. meanwhile the Chinese now and yes the Russians in the past have and are jerking us around in the w.hemisphere.
you believe in US 1st? bull shit you mean after w.Europe,Ukraine and Israel have their needs met and their defense paid for. oh,and after our mil contractors have made as much money as they want.
all of our and Europe's contractors are back ordered? hard to see where the Europeans are making anything substantial other than weapons to sell elsewhere. they certainly don't seem to want to employ them in their own defense.
you seem to have a lot of tech data. wonder if it's open source. maybe just fed to you by the Mcconnell/Graham fan club if it's not?
fact is Trump was the 1st to send stuff to Ukraine. his mineral deal is just bullshit. depends on who you believe but some say most that's there is in places that the Russ already control. hate to say it,i am a big supporter,but his handling of Ukraine is just abysmal. i can chalk his 1st aiding Uke to being lied to and tricked by Pompeo and Pence. he claimed he could end it in 1 day before he got installed. truth. pull every human,every $,every bullet out on day 1-game over,
OMG! we have to stop the new Hitler! yea Putin is corrupt,brutal and self serving. he's a politicin and a lawyer and a KGB guy. doesn't appear to be irrational. our good friends of Saudi,UAE,Kuwait,UK,Germany,France and most of all Israel are all run by honest,gentle,caring,sympathetic and kindly people. esp our new bud in Syria.
 
It's pretty fucking obvious Putin is running a war of attrition. They take out anything they want when they get intelligence of a target all over Ukraine. They sliced up the electric grid last year and Ukraine couldn't stop shit.
Oh no, Europe doesn't want Russia marching west? Maybe Russia doesn't want NATO marching east? The copium in this thread is off the charts.
 
Russia has deteriorated significantly in its military industrial capacity.
I’m not so sure. Last I heard out of EUCOM is that Russia has emerged from this conflict far deadlier than it was when it entered into it. Which is a result of the west fielding capabilities without the depth to lead to decisive outcomes. Essentially the West immunized Russia to many of its capabilities & doctrine.
 
increased lethality after combat experience is a universal fact in mil history. the German army was way more lethal in 1943 than in 1938,the Russian army was much more lethal in 1945 than in 1941,we were way,way more lethal in 1945 that in 1941. same applies to us in Korea,Sparta in ancient Greece,union army in 1865. doesn't always = winning and is much affected by economic power.
 
the known,documented and confirmed luxury spending by Z,his wife and his posse
You better practice making a poker face and #changing shoes in the air, when the official agenda of the Trump administration changes course. And this will happen exactly as predicted by people who have an education. Real education.
Everyone who comes into contact with "Putin and Ukraine" experiences the same metamorphosis.
In our case, it takes a little longer.

ps. You have a chance to be the first to provide evidence of O. Zelenskaya spending money from Ukraine support funds.
Or remain another liar who has read Russia Today.
 
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the German army was way more lethal in 1943 than in 1938,the Russian army was much more lethal in 1945 than in 1941,
Another proof of education in TikTok.
Find in official sources how many vehicles and tanks the USSR and Germany had at the beginning of 41. Already at the borders.
If you love Russia, you must understand their language. If you don't have enough intelligence, then Find Mark Solonin on YouTube, who is not suspected of dislike for Muscovites, and look at the forces of the opposing sides.

Hundreds of thousands surrendered, only because the slave army did not want to fight.
And the USSR had more forces at the beginning of the war.
This was, I recall, after Stalin's purges of officers and the entire state apparatus.
After the camps for those who disagreed with the policies of the Bolsheviks.
The results of the first year of the war on the scoreboard were impressive in scale.
Then they threw meat at the Germans, and after that there was lend-lease.

Unfortunately, modern technology allows you to be in plain sight.
You are a classic representative of the Dunning-Kruger effect
 
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The indoctrination fuel burns brightly in this thread,...

I was brought up to hate many country's and ran on that fuel, until being able to think for myself. Awareness and awaking of same came in July of 1965. Then uncle fucked up in 1994 & 95 and presented the opportunity for events to transpire, for all the pieces of the puzzle to fall into place. The picture was the country's building agenda before we entered WW II & long before Ike gave warning in his farewell speech. The same reason JFK lost his brains in Dallas,... as well as other major events w/in our borders to date.

Until people stop their blind faith in so called Leadership or Presenters & start thinking for their selves, they will go to their grave w/o knowing how big of a PAWN they really were their whole lives,... Forrest Gump would be proud his saying, Stupid is, as stupid does, as it applies to all the pawns in this thread,...

Thinking for ones self, as well investigating whats presented to you on a plate, is a novel concept to many, I know.
Fact-------->Blind faith leads to total blindness, where control can now be a child's hand.
 
For those of you who think your gov so trust worthy, research Operation------> Northwoods and see the kind of shit you have bought into. Then recall other cluster fucks you may or may not have been involved in or bought into w/o investigating.

Easy to be a Pawn, a bitch to learn the truth about shit you helped further,... yet something you have to fucking live with your whole life,...
 
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Until people stop their blind faith in so called Leadership
I don't think many here have blind faith in the leadership, their motives and recognize man as an imperfect being.

But there is things how they are, things the way you think they should be, then billions of other opinions on the way it should be. So IMO, some where in that we are all caught sharing thoughts and opinions on what is happening.
 
I’m not so sure. Last I heard out of EUCOM is that Russia has emerged from this conflict far deadlier than it was when it entered into it. Which is a result of the west fielding capabilities without the depth to lead to decisive outcomes. Essentially the West immunized Russia to many of its capabilities & doctrine.
None of our front-line capabilities have been employed in Ukraine.

What I’m talking about is how small their United Aircraft Corporation is with its final assembly and check (FACO) facility in Eastern Siberia.

Under Putin, they combined Mikoyan Gurevich, Sukhoi, Ilyushin, Tupolev, Irkut, and Yakovlev into one state-run design and production bureau after Yeltsin’s failed attempt with VPK-MAPO. Antonov (heavy lift transports) was always Ukrainian, so it wasn’t included.

If you study the satellite imagery of UAC’s FACO, it’s embarrassingly-small. They went from cranking out hundreds (around 1000) of aircraft per year in 1990, to just a few dozen.

Su-57 and Su-35 production are done in the same warehouse within sight of each other.

iu


It would be like touring a medium or small factory somewhere remote in the US, and seeing F-35s and F-15EXs made in the same building on parallel lines by the same workers at really low-rate production.

This is unimaginable in the US. One of the 3 F-35 FACOs is inside of a mile-long building at Fort Worth, where F-16, F-111, B-58, and B-36 production used to be at different times in history.

F-15 and Super Hornet production/FACO is at Saint Louis in the former McDonnell Douglas plant, same place F-4s were made by the thousands.

F-16 got moved to South Carolina in 2019 from Fort Worth, since F-35 is the focus. Last F-16C Block 50 was delivered to the USAF in 2005, over 20 years ago. (One of our former friends and neighbors delivered it, and was also a pilot who flew the first F-16B delivered to the USAF back in the 1970s. We knew him from the F-16 Combined Test Force at Edwards.)

Right now, the US has 4 fighter FACOs open, with 2 new ones coming online, 2 foreign FACOs for F-35s in Japan and Italy assisting with F-35 Full Rate Production (FRP), and a strategic bomber FACO open for B-21. Additionally, we have various munitions final assembly lines across the munitions spectrum cranking out A2A missiles, cruise missiles, anti-radiation missiles, decoy missiles, SAMs, ATGMs, Hellfires, anti-ship missiles, glide bombs, and surface-to-surface missiles. We also leveraged our existing bomb inventory by making JDAM and LGB kits for them.

Russia isn’t even a player anymore in this space. It really comes down to China at this point. Russia is spent. Anyone talking about Russian war economy and Russia emerging stronger from Ukraine needs to hold that up next to their defense aerospace sector and either look for a new job, or go back to the drawing board on their basic analytical process.
 
None of our front-line capabilities have been employed in Ukraine
M1 & Bradley?

HIMARS for shaping in the adversary SA?

I agree that at present Russia’s capability in the air domain is limited. But does their A2AD capability make up for that shortfall if facing a peer threat?
 
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He must have went to the same calculus class as these guys.


An old German propaganda leaflet making fun of allied progress.


View attachment 8679871
The difference is we occupied Berlin 1 year and 7 months later, after sweeping Germany out of North Africa.

Our North African campaign lasted from Nov 8, 1942, to May 13, 1943. Pretty swift, brutal, and decisive.

Russia hasn’t demonstrated anything like that over the past 3 years. It has been an embarrassing stalemate just looking at the map.
 
M1 & Bradley?

HIMARS for shaping in the adversary SA?
He still views Russia as the Soviet Union, framing their capabilities from that standpoint, it’s evident in what he just said.

Kinda glossing over your point, Ie moving the goal post.

Not wanting to accept this is a bit of a forged in fire moment for Russia.
 
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M1 & Bradley?

HIMARS for shaping in the adversary SA?
Armor and scheduled-for-de-milling US Army Long Range Fires aren’t anywhere close to primary US combat power elements.

If we’re not talking about USAF, USN, and USMC tactical air assets, then we’re not having a conversation about the primary US force structure.

Anything in US Army inventory is so many layers removed from a US FSCO force posture as to be an after-thought, where the Army Chief of Staff is jumping around behind all the real players trying to get a piece of the pie.

This is why US Army’s new budget involved so many longer-ranged missiles, while getting rid of that stupid Booker tank idea.
 
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This is why US Army’s new budget involved so many longer-ranged missiles

I’ve read it. Do you think what’s provided will enable timely implementation of the originally desired capability?

Armor and scheduled-for-de-milling US Army Long Range Fires aren’t anywhere close to primary US combat power elements.
Where is it stated that EVERYTHING being sent was scheduled for de-milling. And even if that was the case it still introduces a fair amount of the capability to the battlefield.
 
M1 & Bradley?

HIMARS for shaping in the adversary SA?

I agree that at present Russia’s capability in the air domain is limited. But does their A2AD capability make up for that shortfall if facing a peer threat?
As to Russian A2AD, F-35s have been flying over late-model S-300 & S-400 IADS networks as if they own the place, including in Syria, Iran, and other places.

We’ve been acquiring Russian SAMs and Radars since the early 1970s and doing technical and tactical exploitation on them. In fact, we snatched/bought/negotiated the acquisition of an S-300 system from Ukraine in Trump’s first term.

After the Battle of Khasham, Trump understood where Putin stood as some kind of guy who thought he could challenge the US without consequence, and had to learn the hard way.

We have built a large portion of our air forces to conduct SEAD and DEAD missions since Vietnam, when the emergence of Soviet SAMs really accounted for substantial losses of US air power. It’s a very difficult mission set to equip and train for in 4th Gen fighters, but we did it and executed it well in Desert Storm.

With 5th Gen, it’s basically unfair against Russian A2AD systems, which have already been defeated for sport by Turkey and Israel using much less-expensive systems in Syria and Libya.
 
As to Russian A2AD, F-35s have been flying over late-model S-300 & S-400 IADS networks as if they own the place, including in Syria, Iran, and other places.

We’ve been acquiring Russian SAMs and Radars since the early 1970s and doing technical and tactical exploitation on them. In fact, we snatched/bought/negotiated the acquisition of an S-300 system from Ukraine in Trump’s first term.

After the Battle of Khasham, Trump understood where Putin stood as some kind of guy who thought he could challenge the US without consequence, and had to learn the hard way.

We have built a large portion of our air forces to conduct SEAD and DEAD missions since Vietnam, when the emergence of Soviet SAMs really accounted for substantial losses of US air power. It’s a very difficult mission set to equip and train for in 4th Gen fighters, but we did it and executed it well in Desert Storm.

With 5th Gen, it’s basically unfair against Russian A2AD systems, which have already been defeated for sport by Turkey and Israel using much less-expensive systems in Syria and Libya.
Fair points.

Who was operating the IADS in Syria & Iran?
 
I’ve read it. Do you think what’s provided will enable timely implementation of the originally desired capability?


Where is it stated that EVERYTHING being sent was scheduled for de-milling. And even if that was the case it still introduces a fair amount of the capability to the battlefield.
The Army’s acquisition of longer-ranged fires seems to indicate to me more focus on the Pacific theater, due to the tyranny of distance between the islands. US Army can provide LR fires, alongside Patriot PAC-3 MSE missile defense of key installations, which has already demonstrated capability to intercept Kh-47M2 hypersonic missiles. This is the main area the US Army is relevant in FSCO, not with Armor, Infantry, or even aviation. Army Aviation is primarily tasked with attack helicopter support of Armor in the advance, as well as in-theater light and medium lift of soldiers, light vehicles, and howitzers (Sling Load).

iu


The USMC is more relevant in the attack at a strategic level than US Army due to USMC force modernization, and always had far more tactical air capability with fighters. ( I spent 10 years in the Army, so I’m just being dispassionate about what I see from the big picture.)

iu


Not everything sent to Ukraine was old stock scheduled for de-mil, but most of it was, and much of it was already older FMS contract stuff sold to NATO countries decades ago. ATACMS has been scheduled for replacement by PrSM in the US Army already, though it is extremely capable and lethal in lower-level conflicts between poorly-equipped nations like Russia and Ukraine. The ATACMS footage I’ve seen from Ukraine was absolutely horrifying for Infantry riding along in transport trucks. Killed everyone in a multi-vehicle column instantly. That’s our old crap from our least-important service.

Yup, our old, replaced, out-dated systems were game-changers in an outdated battlefield like Ukraine, but were never delivered in consistent numbers to provide decisive overmatch. Biden WH wasn’t going to let that happen after being on Russian payroll since the 1970s, nor were any of the Obama staffers who populated the place, for the same reasons.

Biden and Obama were shocked that the SMO didn’t go down swiftly as promised by Putin, so they were left holding a bag they never anticipated. Euros were the first to step in and start sending old stock, with fresh orders for new FMS from the US to replace those. This was all in addition to Trump’s Javelin and $600 million FMS weapons packages from 2018-2019.
 
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Fair points.

Who was operating the IADS in Syria & Iran?
Russians, Syrians, Iranians all with Russian AD training.

Serbs and East Germans were much better at operating Soviet-era SAMs. Iraq had some East German contractors helping man SAM systems in ODS back in 1991. Serbs are of course well-known for the only shoot-down of an F-117A in 1999. Keep in mind F-117A doesn’t have any Radar Warning receivers, no Radar, no self-protection suite, no chaff, no flares, no real SA in that space, yet it flew 1271 combat sorties over Iraq, and over 850 combat sorties over Yugoslavia, zero combat fatalities.

That’s our obsolete trash in terms of stealth capability.

The lower-level Russian Pantsir-S1 and S2 systems were advertised as undefinable, so Israel and Turkey turned defeating them into a sport. That one is more relevant for smaller aircraft and incoming drones, yet it never materialized that way.

iu
 
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Yup, our old, replaced, out-dated systems were game-changers in an outdated battlefield like Ukraine, but were never delivered in consistent numbers to provide decisive overmatch
Indeed, instead of a decisive outcome it likely, according to one of the service war college lectures I have heard, provided an inoculation.
 
When were the Russians operating them?
In Syria with their expeditionary units invited by Assad.

Russian IADS SAM and Radar nodes are hand-in-hand with forward deployments of their expeditionary air forces, just like we do the same with Patriot batteries and other Air Defense systems.

Russians also helped Iran install S-300 and integrate it with their existing US and older Soviet systems before Israelis flew in with F-35Is without being detected, in order to collect as much as they could about Iranian nuclear sites.

iu