Trust me, many of them here are.
You can tell if a design was submitted for a university or external specialty firm consultation.
Silencer Central, if true Phuck them!
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Trust me, many of them here are.
You can tell if a design was submitted for a university or external specialty firm consultation.
An EOS additive manufacturing 3D printer used to make a lot of our favorite latest/greatest suppressors runs over $100K. The engineer that's trained to operate it, design the suppressor, do materials analysis probably makes close to that a year (but hopefully more). The materials that go into it cost...whatever. Then there's taxes, infrastructure, utilities, marketing, web hosting, health insurance, people cost in other words. Point being, suppressors worth having don't cost $20 to make. Like ever.
I know for a fact that a popular 3D printed suppressor costs a dealer about $890. It sells for a good bit over $1K list before the tax stamp. Best guess given manufacturer to dealer markups, puts the manufacturing cost of the suppressor at north of $400.
And honestly, if they take the tax stamp away, it's supply and demand. Prices will go up as there will be more demand at least in the short term under normal economic conditions. State governments will likely win with increased sales tax revenue.
I know for a fact that a popular 3D printed suppressor costs a dealer about $890. It sells for a good bit over $1K list before the tax stamp. Best guess given manufacturer to dealer markups, puts the manufacturing cost of the suppressor at north of $400.
And honestly, if they take the tax stamp away, it's supply and demand. Prices will go up as there will be more demand at least in the short term under normal economic conditions. State governments will likely win with increased sales tax revenue.
The machine work still isn't special.
Tons of places work with the material, there's no secrets.
Any decent machinist should be able to put one together easily.
It costs a ton of money to lease the land, hire staff, build the building, outfit the building and train the staff and yet McDonald's still sells $8 Happy Meals. The neighboring county has a population of 60K people and there are 6 of them along with multiple other fast food establishments.
Exactly , without tax stamp costs , 300$ centerfire and 100$ rimfire suppresors would become quite common not to mention vendors offering them , massively cutting into SC market and overhead.
We have unregulated suppressors and so everyone can and does sell them there is no chance for such business model
They think we’re pretty stupid.
I mean they convince tons of buyers every day that the Bannish suppressors are the bestest ever suppressor ever made by man. So they know people are pretty dumb.
If they get dropped off the NFA Amazon should have them for sale for $15. The whole time and material and engineering is BS.... they've been designed, functioning, and available for decades, they are not reinventing the wheel. And time and material...... You can buy a really nice TIG welded race muffler for a couple hundred bucks with 5 times the material and time invested made in USA, or the same thing from china for $40. The price of suppressors is a joke and only high because they got something special (NFA item) and its a niche market. Its a non-precision item with no moving parts. Remove from the NFA and its no longer special or niche. Price should fall out the bottom, that is why manufacturers side with the NFA. They probably make +500% profit right now, I'd imagine having to ramp up production 100% and cut costs to only 20% profit wouldnt really be appealing to anyone.
If they dont need a serial number and anyone can make them they will have to or fold.
If they dont need a serial number and anyone can make them they will have to or fold.
Um, they have a bullet traveling up to, or exceeding, 3000 feet per second, fired at potentially fully semi-automatic rates, generating heat that can- literally- make them glow red, from an aperture only a few thou over nominal bore diameter. And, because of the NFA making them a lifetime investment, they are built for a lifetime of service.
While I do believe the street prices of suppressors are inflated by market influences created by the NFA, the statement above is willfully obtuse.
I wonder how much a tig welded race muffler would cost if it were expected to spit bullets at hearing safe sound levels without material failure, with a lifetime repair-replace guarantee if it were to fail structurally…
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The suppressor still has no moving parts. Ive made silencers for 6000psi gas vents. Nothing really to them except heavier duty.....obviously. The bullet moving past it can be at light speed, its not touching it. The things that affect it are heat and pressure. Lifetime of service is not a big deal, use the right common metals and they will work. Thats an advertising gimmick to get you to accept the insane price. They act as if its some special process or some special metals. Nope. There are a lot of industries that use similar things, processes, and are subjected to the same or greater torture and even certified for aircraft that are not this expensive for what it is. They are just taking advantage of the item being on the NFA.... hence the reason they support it staying on the NFA.
I believe his intent was to say that a suppressor is the most basic machine functions.
With over 45 years in the field I can say without a doubt the last company I worked for we could manufacture a suppressor from start to finish for under $100 in any material you wanted.
The parts, product we made were far more complex and precise. Also labor intensive in their final assembly.
If they were to become unregulated any CNC shop in America, worldwide could produce them. Yes some will be good some will be bad but that is how it works.
Then Chiinaaah will steal all the patents and mass produce them and sell them on Amazon and you will have $29.95 suppressors that work but not the best just like all products mad now.
Are suppressor purchasers being raped by the manufacturers and vendors? Yes. Not very much different than the machine gun market, just in a less extreme scale. A $30,000 transferable M16 today, is a $600 gun if the NFA gets Thanosed.
(Good news, recent settlement may have just done it, sorta, with FRTs back on market)
I’d love to see foreign competition push US suppressor manufacturers not to accept the status quo. Would this bring prices down? Yeah, some. But, in an analogous market, Tasco scopes aren’t putting much pressure on US Optics. I don’t think the hypothesized sub-$100 Amazon Specials are going to force TBAC to match price.
6000 psi gas vents? I just found a calculator for muzzle pressure. A 62 grain 5.56 bullet fired from a 20” barrel at 3000 fps would have a muzzle pressure of ~18,000 psi. Do these vents silencers need to allow a bullet to escape unimpeded, while also bringing the sound levels down to (near) hearing safe? What is the temp of these venting gases? Are there negative consequences if these gas vent silencers experience thermal events that alter the vent path? And, are these vent silencers expected to be non-replaceable parts?
Back to race mufflers, how much pressure do they experience? Like 10 psi?
(Good news, recent settlement may have just done it, sorta, with FRTs back on market)
I’d love to see foreign competition push US suppressor manufacturers not to accept the status quo. Would this bring prices down? Yeah, some. But, in an analogous market, Tasco scopes aren’t putting much pressure on US Optics. I don’t think the hypothesized sub-$100 Amazon Specials are going to force TBAC to match price.
6000 psi gas vents? I just found a calculator for muzzle pressure. A 62 grain 5.56 bullet fired from a 20” barrel at 3000 fps would have a muzzle pressure of ~18,000 psi. Do these vents silencers need to allow a bullet to escape unimpeded, while also bringing the sound levels down to (near) hearing safe? What is the temp of these venting gases? Are there negative consequences if these gas vent silencers experience thermal events that alter the vent path? And, are these vent silencers expected to be non-replaceable parts?
Back to race mufflers, how much pressure do they experience? Like 10 psi?
“Fully semi-automatic” is a humorous euphemism for fully automatic fire (taken from some legislator that didn’t know anything about firearms, but was quite enthusiastic in speaking out of their ass.). Rates are generally somewhere around 4-500 rounds per minute on the slow end up to maybe 1100 rounds per minute on the really ludicrous end, for individual weapons.
Well, when Samsung drops the Samsung Galaxy suppressor that you can Bluetooth connect to your phone and your ear buds, with a built in chronograph, barometer, thermometer and wind meter, we will all line up to give them $2,500 for it.
Bring on the future.
Bring on the future.
Why is the 2A community filled with so many ignorant bandwagoning retards?
Back in 2023 Silencer Central was open about supporting said bill H.R. 6352. Their blog post about it is still available and up and explains the bill and what it does.
“WHAT IS THE TAX STAMP REVENUE TRANSFER BILL?The Tax Stamp Revenue Transfer for Wildlife and Recreation Act is a significant milestone for wildlife, hunters, and shooting enthusiasts. Supported by Silencer Central, America’s largest silencer dealer, along with 12 other companies & organizations the bill proposes redirecting 15% of tax stamp revenue to expedite the processing of suppressor applications, addressing the current lengthy waiting periods. The remaining 85% would fund the Pittman Robertson Wildlife Restoration Trust Fund, supporting wildlife conservation, law enforcement, hunter recruitment, and the development of recreational shooting ranges. For more details, check out the bill here.”
But hey, it's not like Guns & Gadgets has a long history of posting complete bullshit to increase views or anything. Oh, wait....
Back in 2023 Silencer Central was open about supporting said bill H.R. 6352. Their blog post about it is still available and up and explains the bill and what it does.
“WHAT IS THE TAX STAMP REVENUE TRANSFER BILL?The Tax Stamp Revenue Transfer for Wildlife and Recreation Act is a significant milestone for wildlife, hunters, and shooting enthusiasts. Supported by Silencer Central, America’s largest silencer dealer, along with 12 other companies & organizations the bill proposes redirecting 15% of tax stamp revenue to expedite the processing of suppressor applications, addressing the current lengthy waiting periods. The remaining 85% would fund the Pittman Robertson Wildlife Restoration Trust Fund, supporting wildlife conservation, law enforcement, hunter recruitment, and the development of recreational shooting ranges. For more details, check out the bill here.”
But hey, it's not like Guns & Gadgets has a long history of posting complete bullshit to increase views or anything. Oh, wait....
but yet you can shoot thru a tin foil oil filter and achieve the same results.........................
You are ignoring the whole concept. It doesnt matter what pressure, just use the correct material and thickness to handle it. Cost difference in such variances is not much at all. 18,000 psi is PER SQUARE INCH. average .30 inch. (30 cal). Pressure is force applied to the said area. Small tubes can handle high pressure easier because there is less surface area. That is why a 1/4" tube can handle 6000psi with only a .035 wall thickness versus a 1" pipe running the same pressure needs a much thicker wall thickness...
Im just telling you why it is... Like Ironpony stated. Anyone with any manufacturing experience could whip you up a suppressor for $100. There is nothing to them in comparison to lots of other things that cost less.
Also, china has been buying our scrap for decades and control the metal market. Metal you get from china is not sub par, pretty much most everything made in America is made with China metal. They live and sleep in factories and have machines in their houses. Ive built intercoolers using chinese cores, they are perfect. $2000 core cost in the US, $100 cost in china... the difference? $1900. Metallurgical properties are the same. The chinese aluminum welds better in my opinion. Ive bought a lot of chinese knockoff stuff and compared it to real stuff... Gibson guitars for another example, I have a $3500 one made in the US and the $100. I got from china... the difference is not much. Especially for the cost. It laughable how close they are. The chinese listen also, ive been in contact with factories there and had stuff made. I built a guitar and they made me a headstock overlay with the logo in it.... imaculate. So if they made suppressors.... might take a bit for them to get feedback but they would eventually be spot on and make what you want, and it would be perfect. Probably for less than $100. Material to them would probably be $15-20. labor about the same... Its hard to wrap your head around the cost of stuff everywhere else in the world, you just need to realize how bad we are ripped off here.
This is my specific case, mileage may vary with others. What cost me money in a machine shop is paying people to stand around and not have work for them. I have on several occasions looked at doing projects/things outside of our niche (lots of parts for refineries, production platforms, rigs). When I looked at making milspec upper and lower receivers, it quickly became apparent that it was an extremely low margin business and gave up on the idea. I am not sure how much lower suppressors would go, I am confident that you would see prices drop.
What I am really unsure about is how much money will people pay for a brand name? If you look at really affordable suppressors that are good quality (otter creek, yankee hill) immediately pop into my mind. They sell 5.56 suppressors for something like 40% of the cost of Surefire or KAC. They sell them for something like half the cost of CAT or SCI.
I'm not arguing anything one way or another btw guys, just shared the Desk Pop video as it seemed like it hadn't come up in discussion as it was relatively recently uploaded and so I just tossed it in. I'm not taking sides, but something is definately screwy and whoever is pulling strings needs to lose their position IMO.
I’m not sure what your point is, but HR6352 -Tax Stamp Revenue Transfer bill is not the same as the Constitutional Hearing Protection Act, formerly HPA.
HR6352 just looked to reduce the tax stamp cost to the consumer. So of course all suppressor companies would support it as it would increase sales. Yet it still made them remain fully on the NFA. A good thing for current manufacturers.
The Constitutional Hearing Protection Act as introduced would have removed them completely from NFA. Making them essentially another firearm commodity.
Not a good thing for current manufacturers.
If you cannot see the difference…
ETA: the revisions to CHPA coming out of committee amount to essentially the same thing as your referenced HR6352. It looks to reduce the cost to consumers. Thus satisfying those that want to keep them on the NFA, like say SC. And also satisfying those congressmen that would just like to get the pressure off of them from their constituents.
This compromise would likely accomplish both those things while pretty much keeping the status quo in DC and satisfying the huge lobbying groups from both sides.
Who loses? John Q. Public, that’s who.
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The only presented evidence (of anything) in this whole thread is:
"Rumors have been swirling in the firearms community about a company lobbying Congress to keep silencers under the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA). Lobbying disclosures show Silencer Central advocated for ‘suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation’ in 2024, prompting speculation about their stance on NFA deregulation."
(Doublethink posted SC's lobbying report in post #7, but here is the link https://lda.senate.gov/filings/public/filing/9f4f176a-b694-4716-a1bf-047230e68336/print/ )
SC's ‘suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation’ lobbying was in regards to HR6352. I have seen NO evidence of SC lobbying to block/cripple CHPA. Just the usual conjecture, "breadcrumbs", and "if-then" bullshit that seems to pass for evidence anymore. If you have seen actual evidence of such, by all means link it. SC did spend "less than $5k" for lobbying on the CHPA, but we have no information on the position they are in favor of. https://lda.senate.gov/filings/public/filing/e9c2c92a-17d3-448f-acf6-db2f22d87210/print/
My "point" is that this whole discussion seems to be based on some retards reading "suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation", and surmising that it means "legislation to conserve the tax stamp". Which is just mindbogglingly stupid.
I'm betting at the end of the day, (G&G, LAO, VSO, Et al.) will have stirred up this shit storm just for views, and never present any actual evidence that SC hold the positions claimed in their vids. Yet, a certain percentage of those who have decided SC's guilt will never relent. And the 2A community will have harmed another supportive business, because we just can't seem to stop the backbiting long enough to get to the truth. And for what crime? Not being specific enough with their language choice on a bullshit government form.
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