Chaplins in Schools: An interesting concept... might have some merit!

[sirhrmechanic]

https://www.breitbart.com/education/2025/06/29/poll-majority-favor-chaplains-in-public-schools/

AP Poll that shows majority of Americans support the idea of chaplins in schools.

Some constitutional 'challenges' here, but as long as they were like military chaplins and were non-denominational and/or set up to talk to all people... or if a 'rotating' group of volunteer pastors, priests, Imam's and Rabbi's from the community could provide 'guidance' for kids that clearly they aren't going to get from the "Guidance counselor who says 'you go to Harvard... You become a Carpenter... you find mines." And, yes, let in the Buddhists and anyone else who can provide good counseling (but not prostletising sp?) could offer kids a place to talk and get a better dialectic than your average idiot guidance counselor.

As I have said many times, I'm not religious. But very much support the good religion can do in communities. (Crusades and Jihads and blowing holes in Bandsmen aside)... this sounds like a good idea to me. It certainly can't hurt.

What says the Hide?

This, of course, would make the left's heads explode.

Sirhr

PS. And I know... the Atheists and the Satanists would demand equal time. But if they aren't established in a community, well, let us know after you have a legit church, a legit divinities background, and a legit 'something to add.' The concept is good. But, well, the Devil will be in the details, won't it?

 

[Maggot]

First in.

I investigated every religion, and denomination of Christianity.

I accepted Christ 55 years ago. I continue to find that religion, all of them, are poison and exist to manipulate the weak, frightened, and confused.

My determination is that we're told to honor God, who is Love, as supreme, and to treat our neighbors as we wish to be treated. Why? because every actionhas an equal and opposite reaction, and you reap what you sow. Whatever you put out multipleis and returns.Thats pretty simple and direct, doesnt need any bullshit dogmas attached.

I'd be in favor of a 'councilor' for kids, but keep religion out of it.

 

[Milf Dots]

Remove ALL school psychologists / 'counselors' from public schools because they almost always support 'affirmation' of 'Trans' for kids, and other anti-logic views. Federal law should outright ban any school staff, volunteers, etc, from ever even speaking on any aspect of the topic of LGBTq.

Any school counselors should be limited to speaking about academic related topics and not mental illnesses. Students can always speak to the school nurse if they're having health issues that need triaged.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

First in.

I investigated every religion, and denomination of Christianity.

I accepted Christ 55 years ago. I continue to find that religion, all of them, are poison and exist to manipulate the weak, frightened, and confused.

My determination is that we're told to honor God, who is Love, as supreme, and to treat our neighbors as we wish to be treated. Why? because every actionhas an equal and opposite reaction, and you reap what you sow. Whatever you put out multipleis and returns.Thats pretty simple and direct, doesnt need any bullshit dogmas attached.

I'd be in favor of a 'councilor' for kids, but keep religion out of it.

Even when the 'counselors' they have today have drank deep from the religion of Communism? Or are there to be trans activists? Or groomers? Or worse?

The 'counselors' these days don't seem to be working out. Then again, I'm probably generalizing. But most 'counselors' today are products of a far left university system that is telling them they are there to 'counsel' kids to be part of the FSA and to follow the Gaia Hypothesis like it's their real religion.

But agree on the point that they should not be there to push a religion... anyone there to be a listener and should engage in a conversation based on the principles of being a good person... they should be proselytizing. But whatever you think of them, religious folks do tend to have those skills. If you can keep them from trying to convert souls to their particular brand. Which is probably Unconstitutional anyway.

Anyway, we'll put you in the "No" column! ;-)

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Remove ALL school psychologists / 'counselors' from public schools because they almost always support 'affirmation' of 'Trans' for kids, and other anti-logic views. Federal law should outright ban any school staff, volunteers, etc, from ever even speaking on any aspect of the topic of LGBTq.

Any school counselors should be limited to speaking about academic related topics and not mental illnesses. Students can always speak to the school nurse if they're having health issues that need triaged.

Do schools even have 'nurses' any more? I thought that went out in the '70's?

Sirhr

 

[Milf Dots]

Do schools even have 'nurses' any more? I thought that went out in the '70's?

Sirhr

Yes, although in some districts the nurse covers more than one school and they're only in each building for a couple of scheduled hours each weekday.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I think it's a great idea. I will use the Chaplins in the army as my basis for this discussion. If you were ever in the military, you likely came across a chaplain in your career who had a profound effect on you, regardless of your own beliefs. I don't think it violates church and state as long as they have no authority and hold no position in the administration. They are invaluable in times of crisis. There are so many kids out there that are confused as they go through life, and their families are trash. Who do you want giving your kid crisis counseling when they need it, a person with a religious take on life's events, or some fat Rosie O'Donnell looking moron with a degree in gender studies telling your kid how to join the pre transition tramny groups online to find somewhere they fit in? If you think I'm mischaracterizing school guidance counselors, I'm not. That doesn't describe all of them, but it accurately describes the essence of the position. I pay every month for my daughter to go to a Christian private school. The kids that come out of this school are infinitely better prepared for life than public school kids. Regardless of how you feel about Christianity personally, you will not make the argument to me with a straight face that the people who embrace the Christian lifestyle aren't generally happier and live better lives than those who don't. They have better social circles and a better outlook on life. They are modest, polite, and generally ambitious. It's a solid foundation for children. If you disagree, you're just wrong. I don't care, you're wrong. And, if you think this is all just a coincidence, you're insane. I don't believe every word of the Bible, and I don't believe that Christianity has it all right, but it is by far the best way to raise your children and live your life. God is real, and while we may not exactly understand it all, there's a 0% chance that everything just kinda happens. I've had literally hundreds of events in my life that have left me with no doubt. If you don't believe that prayer works, you're just wrong. God has given me almost everything I've ever asked for. Some things I wish I hadn't asked for, and there is wisdom to be gained from that. Some things took 20 or 30 years to happen, and they happened exactly when they should have.

 

[XP1K]

If we had more chaplains in schools, maybe there wouldn't be as much need for them in the prisons.

 

[Makinchips208]

No.

Dont send your kids to state controlled indoctrination camps education.

 

[Ronws]

https://www.breitbart.com/education/2025/06/29/poll-majority-favor-chaplains-in-public-schools/

AP Poll that shows majority of Americans support the idea of chaplins in schools.

Some constitutional 'challenges' here, but as long as they were like military chaplins and were non-denominational and/or set up to talk to all people... or if a 'rotating' group of volunteer pastors, priests, Imam's and Rabbi's from the community could provide 'guidance' for kids that clearly they aren't going to get from the "Guidance counselor who says 'you go to Harvard... You become a Carpenter... you find mines." And, yes, let in the Buddhists and anyone else who can provide good counseling (but not prostletising sp?) could offer kids a place to talk and get a better dialectic than your average idiot guidance counselor.

As I have said many times, I'm not religious. But very much support the good religion can do in communities. (Crusades and Jihads and blowing holes in Bandsmen aside)... this sounds like a good idea to me. It certainly can't hurt.

What says the Hide?

This, of course, would make the left's heads explode.

Sirhr

PS. And I know... the Atheists and the Satanists would demand equal time. But if they aren't established in a community, well, let us know after you have a legit church, a legit divinities background, and a legit 'something to add.' The concept is good. But, well, the Devil will be in the details, won't it?

I know that satanists like to say they are just atheists with a church. But really, to believe in Satan, AKA Lucifer, you must believe in God. Therefore, a satanist is just trying to rationalize their desire for deviant sex.

Atheists believe everything came from nothing in what is called the Big Bang. Sounds like Creation, tastes like Creation, smells like Creation - it might be Creation.

The only problem I see is the separation of church and state. For it to truly be separate is to not have any attachment at all. And that is because the fear of the government imposing and forcing a religion you don't want on you, against your will. Like the church of chop off your penis and let's do butt stuff. I don't want that forced upon me and I feel that a majority of the guys here feel the same way.

But it will always be a fight. This nation was founded, in part, on a desire for freedom of religion to not be under the Anglican Church of England but people here could be just as fundamental and pedantic.

So, then you end up with counselors from various "recognized" religions, which increases the budget of the school districts and raises everyone's property taxes.

That being said, I could have easily been home-schooled and know just as much as I know now. And I was raised by God-fearing people.

I have had my walk on the wild side, I have been in the pits of Hell. Heaven is a nicer place.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I know that satanists like to say they are just atheists with a church. But really, to believe in Satan, AKA Lucifer, you must believe in God. Therefore, a satanist is just trying to rationalize their desire for deviant sex.

Atheists believe everything came from nothing in what is called the Big Bang. Sounds like Creation, tastes like Creation, smells like Creation - it might be Creation.

The only problem I see is the separation of church and state. For it to truly be separate is to not have any attachment at all. And that is because the fear of the government imposing and forcing a religion you don't want on you, against your will. Like the church of chop off your penis and let's do butt stuff. I don't want that forced upon me and I feel that a majority of the guys here feel the same way.

But it will always be a fight. This nation was founded, in part, on a desire for freedom of religion to not be under the Anglican Church of England but people here could be just as fundamental and pedantic.

So, then you end up with counselors from various "recognized" religions, which increases the budget of the school districts and raises everyone's property taxes.

That being said, I could have easily been home-schooled and know just as much as I know now. And I was raised by God-fearing people.

I have had my walk on the wild side, I have been in the pits of Hell. Heaven is a nicer place.

I agree with almost everything you've said. I don't think it would cost the schools anything. I think if it were allowed, there are plenty of preachers that would happily spend their days at their local school and not require a dollar from the school system. The big churches would fund them with a smile. If it were a cost to the schools, it would be a clear violation of the separation required by the constitution (I think), but then it would also give the schools the authority to dictate to the chaplain, which is probably worse. I hope it comes to fruition, but the ACLU, southern poverty law center, blm, antifa, and every other left wing terrorist group would file non-stop continuous lawsuits and keep it tied up in court forever. They absolutely cannot stand for anything that isn't exactly the way they want it.

 

[Maggot]

No.

Dont send your kids to state controlled indoctrination camps education.

I think it's a great idea. I will use the Chaplins in the army as my basis for this discussion. If you were ever in the military, you likely came across a chaplain in your career who had a profound effect on you, regardless of your own beliefs. I don't think it violates church and state as long as they have no authority and hold no position in the administration. They are invaluable in times of crisis. There are so many kids out there that are confused as they go through life, and their families are trash. Who do you want giving your kid crisis counseling when they need it, a person with a religious take on life's events, or some fat Rosie O'Donnell looking moron with a degree in gender studies telling your kid how to join the pre transition tramny groups online to find somewhere they fit in? If you think I'm mischaracterizing school guidance counselors, I'm not. That doesn't describe all of them, but it accurately describes the essence of the position. I pay every month for my daughter to go to a Christian private school. The kids that come out of this school are infinitely better prepared for life than public school kids. Regardless of how you feel about Christianity personally, you will not make the argument to me with a straight face that the people who embrace the Christian lifestyle aren't generally happier and live better lives than those who don't. They have better social circles and a better outlook on life. They are modest, polite, and generally ambitious. It's a solid foundation for children. If you disagree, you're just wrong. I don't care, you're wrong. And, if you think this is all just a coincidence, you're insane. I don't believe every word of the Bible, and I don't believe that Christianity has it all right, but it is by far the best way to raise your children and live your life. God is real, and while we may not exactly understand it all, there's a 0% chance that everything just kinda happens. I've had literally hundreds of events in my life that have left me with no doubt. If you don't believe that prayer works, you're just wrong. God has given me almost everything I've ever asked for. Some things I wish I hadn't asked for, and there is wisdom to be gained from that. Some things took 20 or 30 years to happen, and they happened exactly when they should have.

Even when the 'counselors' they have today have drank deep from the religion of Communism? Or are there to be trans activists? Or groomers? Or worse?

The 'counselors' these days don't seem to be working out. Then again, I'm probably generalizing. But most 'counselors' today are products of a far left university system that is telling them they are there to 'counsel' kids to be part of the FSA and to follow the Gaia Hypothesis like it's their real religion.

But agree on the point that they should not be there to push a religion... anyone there to be a listener and should engage in a conversation based on the principles of being a good person... they should be proselytizing. But whatever you think of them, religious folks do tend to have those skills. If you can keep them from trying to convert souls to their particular brand. Which is probably Unconstitutional anyway.

Anyway, we'll put you in the "No" column! ;-)

Cheers,

Sirhr

I put @Makinchips208 first because I think thats the only real answer. First because public schools are indoctronation centers. "Sit still, shut up, do as we say." I hated school, not learning, but the way they did it. Children dont need to be sitting in a little wooden desk all day. In fact, public schlool in the rural south, made me hate for learning it took 30 years to get over.Then the anti Christ agenda they now push. And the assholes youre stuck with all day, a lot of them bullies or worse.

I was not in the military so I cant comment on @Hecouldgoalltheway 's post, but from what I've read of military chaplins, that might be a good avenue. Mature, vetted ones with real life experience, not young dikheads. As to Christians living a better life, I think thats dependent on a lot of factors. My experience in traveling the world has shown me that most people are basically good and kind. I'll leave it there as I'm not up for any long debates that never resolve anything.

Saved you for last @sirhrmechanic . You named one problem you would face, any 'Christian' will by default, end op trying to convert others. This is not a criticism, just an observation, but you'll always hear a variation of..."Yes you have problems, there are problems in the world, but there is salvation in Christ. You've got to turn your life over to Jesus." Right or wrong, thats religion and all that goes with it, and doesnt belong in 'public' gubmint funded schools. They are for STEM and some other liberal arts. If you want that teach them at home or send them to a private/parochial school.

Book learning is a small part of the equation What I think is important in one who councels, is first, empathy. Being able to sense and connect with another persons pain or confusion. Secondly, Having deep life experience to draw upon, having been through a lot of pain or suffering certainly can help provide that empathy. Third, knowing what questions to ask, and how to ask them.

Since we're talking Chaplins, enjoy Eric Burdon. Makes me feel old.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I put @Makinchips208 first because I think thats the only real answer. First because public schools are indoctronation centers. "Sit still, shut up, do as we say." I hated school, not learning, but the way they did it. Children dont need to be sitting in a little wooden desk all day. In fact, public schlool in the rural south, made me hate for learning it took 30 years to get over.Then the anti Christ agenda they now push. And the assholes youre stuck with all day, a lot of them bullies or worse.

I was not in the military so I cant comment on @Hecouldgoalltheway 's post, but from what I've read of military chaplins, that might be a good avenue. Mature, vetted ones with real life experience, not young dikheads. As to Christians living a better life, I think thats dependent on a lot of factors. My experience in traveling the world has shown me that most people are basically good and kind. I'll leave it there as I'm not up for any long debates that never resolve anything.

Saved you for last @sirhrmechanic . You named one problem you would face, any 'Christian' will by default, end op trying to convert others. This is not a criticism, just an observation, but you'll always hear a variation of..."Yes you have problems, there are problems in the world, but there is salvation in Christ. You've got to turn your life over to Jesus." Right or wrong, thats religion and all that goes with it, and doesnt belong in 'public' gubmint funded schools. They are for STEM and some other liberal arts. If you want that teach them at home or send them to a private/parochial school.

Book learning is a small part of the equation What I think is important in one who councels, is first, empathy. Being able to sense and connect with another persons pain or confusion. Secondly, Having deep life experience to draw upon, having been through a lot of pain or suffering certainly can help provide that empathy. Third, knowing what questions to ask, and how to ask them.

Since we're talking Chaplins, enjoy Eric Burdon. Makes me feel old.

As Hecouldgoalltheway mentioned (and I mentioned in the first post) the model of the miliary chaplain is what I sort of had in mind. Definitely a very specialized type of person.

If I am not mistaken, one of the only religions that are not allowed to proselythise are the Sikh's. But a counselor of any faith 'should' be able to handle the role under the restriction that they not try and add sheep to the flock, so to speak. If you can't handle that... then you're not gonna set foot in a school!

Well, it's all theoretical right now. And what we have ain't working. So maybe try some creative stuff.... or maybe not!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Im2bent]

 

[Emerson0311]

My first thought was that chaplains tend to support the rah-rah fight and die for our country presentation that many of us see holes in as we have aged a bit. I like my pastor, and he is generally sound, but sometimes he seems a bit willfully blind to the reality many of his flock face every day. I am very aware of the innocence of my children and am hesitant to leave them to be influenced by a “true believer” without my input.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

My first thought was that chaplains tend to support the rah-rah fight and die for our country presentation that many of us see holes in as we have aged a bit. I like my pastor, and he is generally sound, but sometimes he seems a bit willfully blind to the reality many of his flock face every day. I am very aware of the innocence of my children and am hesitant to leave them to be influenced by a “true believer” without my input.

VS the current guidance counselor model?

You trust them less than that?

 

[JR_77]

I'd be in favor of a 'councilor' for kids, but keep religion out of it.

That’s what we have currently and have had for decades.

 

[Maggot]

That’s what we have currently and have had for decades.

Yep.

Its a slippery slope.

 

[Baron23]

https://www.breitbart.com/education/2025/06/29/poll-majority-favor-chaplains-in-public-schools/

AP Poll that shows majority of Americans support the idea of chaplins in schools.

Some constitutional 'challenges' here, but as long as they were like military chaplins and were non-denominational and/or set up to talk to all people... or if a 'rotating' group of volunteer pastors, priests, Imam's and Rabbi's from the community could provide 'guidance' for kids that clearly they aren't going to get from the "Guidance counselor who says 'you go to Harvard... You become a Carpenter... you find mines." And, yes, let in the Buddhists and anyone else who can provide good counseling (but not prostletising sp?) could offer kids a place to talk and get a better dialectic than your average idiot guidance counselor.

As I have said many times, I'm not religious. But very much support the good religion can do in communities. (Crusades and Jihads and blowing holes in Bandsmen aside)... this sounds like a good idea to me. It certainly can't hurt.

What says the Hide?

This, of course, would make the left's heads explode.

Sirhr

PS. And I know... the Atheists and the Satanists would demand equal time. But if they aren't established in a community, well, let us know after you have a legit church, a legit divinities background, and a legit 'something to add.' The concept is good. But, well, the Devil will be in the details, won't it?

We loved our chaplains in the USAF…of course, we were sitting on a big tank of kerosene with a flame shooting out the ass end (a young man’s game as an older wiser person wouldn’t even consider it lol).

And I do think there is a real need for kids to get some guidance and wisdom that they don’t get at home or from asshole leftist guidance counselors and school psychologist.

But it will never fly and there will be tons of suits filed on constitutional grounds.

And I did hospice volunteering (until COVID killed them all). It was thru a religious social organization but the chaplains on the team came from all religions, were nondenominational, and the hospice service itself was totally nondenominational wrt to the patients they served. .

I liked those chaplains too.

 

[Emerson0311]

VS the current guidance counselor model?

You trust them less than that?

No, but we have foregone a second income in order to home school.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

We loved our chaplains in the USAF…of course, we were sitting on a big tank of kerosene with a flame shooting out the ass end (a young man’s game as an older wiser person wouldn’t even consider it lol).

And I do think there is a real need for kids to get some guidance and wisdom that they don’t get at home or from asshole leftist guidance counselors and school psychologist.

But it will never fly and there will be tons of suits filed on constitutional grounds.

And I did hospice volunteering (until COVID killed them all). It was thru a religious social organization but the chaplains on the team came from all religions, were nondenominational, and the hospice service itself was totally nondenominational wrt to the patients they served. .

I liked those chaplains too.

Exactly… esp paragraph 3. Sadly!

 

[akmike47]

I know that satanists like to say they are just atheists with a church. But really, to believe in Satan, AKA Lucifer, you must believe in God. Therefore, a satanist is just trying to rationalize their desire for deviant sex.

Atheists believe everything came from nothing in what is called the Big Bang. Sounds like Creation, tastes like Creation, smells like Creation - it might be Creation.

The only problem I see is the separation of church and state. For it to truly be separate is to not have any attachment at all. And that is because the fear of the government imposing and forcing a religion you don't want on you, against your will. Like the church of chop off your penis and let's do butt stuff. I don't want that forced upon me and I feel that a majority of the guys here feel the same way.

But it will always be a fight. This nation was founded, in part, on a desire for freedom of religion to not be under the Anglican Church of England but people here could be just as fundamental and pedantic.

So, then you end up with counselors from various "recognized" religions, which increases the budget of the school districts and raises everyone's property taxes.

That being said, I could have easily been home-schooled and know just as much as I know now. And I was raised by God-fearing people.

I have had my walk on the wild side, I have been in the pits of Hell. Heaven is a nicer place.

Most satanists don’t actually worship or believe in Satan it’s symbolic. If anything it’s more worship of self, only theistic satanists which is the smallest group believe in Satan. Do yall research anything?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Most satanists don’t actually worship Satan it’s symbolic. If anything it’s more worship of self, only theistic satanists which is the smallest group believe in Satan. Do yall research anything?

I read that if you drive a wooden stake into the heart of a Satanist, they will die.

Or was that vampires?

Seems like it might work either way.

 

[akmike47]

I read that if you drive a wooden stake into the heart of a Satanist, they will die.

Or was that vampires?

Seems like it might work either way.

Cool story

No research yet again. The stakes don’t “kill” vampires in most traditional stories it holds them in their coffin or to the ground so they can’t rise and terrorize people. The heart stuff is a more modern story, people are living the mythical vampire is “undead” which doesn’t mean alive. Supernatural forces animated it so the biological life bs isn’t needed.

This is fun

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I'm all for it, but even Veer would stand here and say: "you gotta ask Charlie".

 

[JR_77]

That’s what we have currently and have had for decades.

Yep.

It’s a slippery slope.

In the long run school choice is the way.

 

[Milf Dots]

First in.

I investigated every religion, and denomination of Christianity.

I accepted Christ 55 years ago. I continue to find that religion, all of them, are poison and exist to manipulate the weak, frightened, and confused.

My determination is that we're told to honor God, who is Love, as supreme, and to treat our neighbors as we wish to be treated. Why? because every actionhas an equal and opposite reaction, and you reap what you sow. Whatever you put out multipleis and returns.Thats pretty simple and direct, doesnt need any bullshit dogmas attached.

I'd be in favor of a 'councilor' for kids, but keep religion out of it.

Counselor Vs Councilor​

The terms "councilor" and "counselor" refer to distinct roles and are often confused due to their similar spelling and pronunciation.

• Councilor: A councilor is a member of a governing or advisory body, typically involved in making decisions or laws for a community. They focus on community issues, public policies, and governance. Councilors may serve on city councils or advisory boards and are elected officials who represent citizens' interests in local government.
• Counselor: A counselor provides advice, guidance, or therapy, often in mental health, legal, or educational settings. Counselors may help individuals cope with mental health challenges, stressful life circumstances, or academic and personal challenges. In legal contexts, "counselor" can refer to a lawyer or attorney who provides legal advice.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

View attachment 8719126
Cool story

No research yet again. The stakes don’t “kill” vampires in most traditional stories it holds them in their coffin or to the ground so they can’t rise and terrorize people. The heart stuff is a more modern story, people are living the mythical vampire is “undead” which doesn’t mean alive. Supernatural forces animated it so the biological life bs isn’t needed.

This is fun

So, what I gathered there was that a wooden stake through the heart will kill satanists?

Perfect, I've never seen a vampire.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

what we have ain't working.

Cheers,

Sirhr

As designed. Probably a poor choice of a word because it wasn't originally designed for what it has become but has been perverted to what it is. Why do you think that "they" fight vouchers tooth and nail?
The big picture. The family construct has been broken, morality has been perverted, the education system has been transformed and several more aspects of upbringing children have been damaged. Changing one small piece when the total destruction is almost complete will have no effect.
Removal from the system is the only way. They know that and that's why they fight so hard against the voucher idea. People are unwilling to get out of the rat race or keeping up with the Jones to homeschool as stated by another poster.

 

[supercorndogs]

Do schools even have 'nurses' any more? I thought that went out in the '70's?

Sirhr

In CO a nurse is a state requirement. A lot of schools don't have counselors, and most school psychologists just fill out paperwork to meet fedral requirements and you have to have a psychologist present at IEP (special ed) meetings with parents. Most of their time spents with kids is performing tests to determine eligibility for sped services.

I have yet to meet a psychologist that wasn't a psychopath. But schools aren't hiring them because they're concerned about kids mental health. As always it's to keep access to the money machine.

 

[918v]

It would be nice to have a neutral third party in the mix to keep everyone honest.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

What says the Hide?

Charlie Chaplin would be better received,... and would instill better values than what is being passed around in them now,...