Ukraine war Bullshit.

[doubloon]

special exception

Either it's in the bible or it's not. Just because you read the bible with a certain agenda in mind and ignore the parts that are inconvenient it doesn't make the words go away.

Sure banks "create" "money". Society will collapse because of it. We're 4,000+ years into the collapse caused by banking and loans already, I'm sure it will happen any day now.

 

[Detroit_1]

Banks don't have to have all the cash on hand to back a loan. To say "money is created" might be an overly simplified view. I don't know the arbiter. I tend to think everything money has an impact on inflation. I'm sure not everyone benefits from loans I guess it depends on how "harm" is defined.

Not picking on you here but want to understand your thinking - do you sincerely believe that the Money represented by the US Stock Market / total US Real Estate Value / all assets - exists currently in a physical form? Follow up question - did that physical Money (now we're going to call it capital) exist prior to the loan that then formed the asset?

If you add up Gov + Corp + Personal Debt of the US - do you think that physical money exists currently?

 

[lariat]

The OT allowed the charging of interest to non-jews but forbade it against Jews - Deut 23:19-20. But Jews were charging fellow Israelites in the time of Nehemiah and the complaints came to him and he put a stop to it, with the lenders pledging not to charge their fellow Jews interest.

It is also noteworthy that they didn't use fiat currency and as a result didn't use constant printing to pay off prior debts and support ongoing profligate spending. That's the problem we have that has caused this whole issue.

Within the confines of the Ukraine fiasco that means that the US is borrowing fiat money and must pay it back with more debt and printed dollars. Inflation can never be allowed to go to zero, which means the money we have been funneling to Ukraine will never leave our debt balance but the financial load on the taxpayer will increase. Ultimately it only goes down one road.

You may know of people that are financially reckless, but you don't know anyone as financially reckless as Congress.

 

[doubloon]

Israelites were not allowed to charge interest on loans to their fellow kind.

I never said they were. Old testament specifically says interest may be charged to "strangers" or "not brothers". So it's "allowed", not required, for strangers and specifically not allowed for brothers or congregation members or whatever you want to call them.

I don't *think* the new testament actually says interest may not be charged. It does say no one who asks should be turned away even if the loan or interest is never paid. There may be a spot in the new testament where jesus says "thou shalt not charge interest" but I don't recall it.

 

[doubloon]

Not picking on you

Pick if you want, I got one guy moving goalposts trying to push me in a corner because I originally said nothing more than debt can be a tool or a noose depending on how you use it in response to a guy on social security who says he's "free" because he doesn't have any debt even though he depends on .gov for part of his income that is derived from taxes and debt levied on people who aren't even born yet. Then all of a sudden it's like I'm besmirching the American or Global economy.

I definitely lean toward money is an artificial construct in today's world. Nothing highlights that more for me than crypto. Crypto is literally value created from nothing but a few clock ticks on a CPU. Hell, there are a bunch of places around here that won't even take cash, just digits. So, no, I don't believe enough physical money exists to cover everything added up.

I'm not the one claiming money is created from nothing. If anything I'd more likely be the one who would say you can't create more of what doesn't exist to begin with.

We're all just trading numbers for stuff at this point and some portion of those numbers do have tangible and physical representation. But we're a long way away from a piece of gold being behind every dollar.

I just feel like I have enough numbers accumulated at this point to sustain my way of living for a while and how long that may be depends on a quadrillion variables outside my control.

Specifically on your capital point. I let it go earlier but I *think* banks are supposed to have "cash" to back some loans just not all loans. Does it have to be "real" cash? Who knows.

If you dip into tangible assets like land, houses, vehicles, etc. then everything is squishy. I can contract a builder to take $100k of material and turn it into a $200K asset called a house for which I can get a bank to finance the purchase and "hand" the "money" to the builder. Did I and the builder and the tree company "create" money?

Same thing for land. I can buy 600 acres off in the weeds between here and Dallas for $1000/acre then divide it up and sell it for $100k/acre. Did I "create" money?

If I bought a 2025 Escalade for $100k or whatever they cost then drove it off the lot such that it instantly became worth $80k did I just destroy money?

 

[theLBC]

consider the source. it could be misinformation....

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Essentially the older folks don't have to pay property taxes but all the younger folks have to pay property taxes (and probably pay extra to make up the difference).

They do not pay extra at all.

 

[Detroit_1]

Pick if you want,

I'm not the one claiming money is created from nothing. If anything I'd more likely be the one who would say you can't create more of what doesn't exist to begin with.

It is done daily and I just showed you above.

Specifically on your capital point. I let it go earlier but I *think* banks are supposed to have "cash" to back some loans just not all loans.

Well, w/out getting into Basel - yeah @ 10% which is nothing....thankfully Dodd Frank is written such that depositors will bail-in at point of the next problem. Very frankly - if mark to market were really employed - you'd see a shit of bank failures overnight - which translate into loan calls.

If you dip into tangible assets like land, houses, vehicles, etc. then everything is squishy. I can contract a builder to take $100k of material and turn it into a $200K asset called a house for which I can bet a bank to finance the purchase. Did I and the builder and the tree company "create" money?

Same thing for land. I can buy 600 acres off in the weeds between here and Dallas for $1000/acre then divide it up and sell it for $100k/acre. Did I "create" money?

YOU did not, the Bank did. Again - do you believe that Capital existed prior to or is it created at the time the loan is made?

If I bought a 2025 Escalade for $100k or whatever they cost then drove it off the lot such that it instantly became worth $80k did I just destroy money?

LOL! - tell your banker you don't owe him the money.

Here is a different way to explain it - Cash for Clunkers - an absolute give a way to auto manufacturers + banks; and simultaneously a strike against the general public in need of cheap personal transportation (social control). Consumer loans drove the cost of personal transportation to new highs - none of that money existed prior to....it was function of accounting. If the auto was made outside of US - there was little GDP recognized; all that created money simply went to consumptive active and drove inflation in that asset class; and b/c of that it priced out certain segments of the population from personal transpiration.

 

[doubloon]

YOU did not, the Bank did. Again - do you believe that Capital existed prior to or is it created at the time the loan is made?

So every time my home goes up in value the bank is creating that money too? Even if the buyer pays cash?

Demand naturally drives prices up.

Demand in the housing market drove prices up for a while in recent years because office attendance, people, covid, whatever and bank loans facilitated those purchases so we blame banks for the cost of housing going up because they made loans possible.

Demand in the housing marker shrinking now so prices are going down but banks are still making loans. Do banks get credit now for prices dropping or do we blame them for prices not dropping fast enough?

Access to easy money does contribute to demand. Access to cheap healthcare also increased demand. The simple thing to do is blame insurance companies for the inflation of health costs.

We should also blame .gov for distributing fiat money to seniors in the form of social security driving up the demand and the prices for all kinds of things that old people enjoy.

 

[Detroit_1]

No. Firstly - nothing happens until there is a sale (*however this is where we get into mark to market and fabricated market valuations primarily due to the loan feedback loop). If you bought something for X and sold it for CASH at Y price - you receive Y in cash and if there is a profit, that profit is in cash.

If you bought something for X and sold it for the proceeds of a loan - it is most likely that the Bank created the money from double entry accounting (not capital sitting at the bank) and then more money is created when they sell the loan to the next bank (most banks are not portfolioing the loans they make).

 

[doubloon]

Bank created the money from double entry accounting

So you're saying double entry accounting is bad and it shouldn't be used.

 

[Detroit_1]

I think I have been pretty clear - money creation is the issue.

 

[doubloon]

And it's your opinion double entry bookkeeping is responsible for the creation?

I'm just trying to follow along since you stated earlier the bank created money from double entry accounting.

Creating money is bad (the opinion of many), double entry creates money (your opinion) ... double entry is bad? We get rid of double entry we get rid of creating money via double entry?

I'm just the guy who said debt can be a tool for good. Since debt requires accounting and accounting uses double entry I'm guessing it's your opinion all debt is bad as well?

 

[Detroit_1]

Why don't you impress the class with how bookkeeping for a Bank is different for any other entity...

After that, I'd love your scholarly notes of who was "jebus".

 

[doubloon]

Why don't you impress the class with how bookkeeping for a Bank is different for any other entity...

After that, I love your scholarly notes of who was "jebus".

I'm not the one trying to give bookkeeping lessons, and poorly at that.

Again, I'm just the guy who said not all debt is bad and then all the paranoid doomsday simps came climbing out of the trees to give me "lessons" on things I never said and start misquoting the bible at me.

 

[Detroit_1]

Gotcha.

I'm not here to pick on anyone.


Best of luck to all.

 

[theLBC]

 

[Snuby642]

I'm going to miss this thread when the thumpers and the masters of finance get it killed.

We still have more Russians, Ukraineians and American thieves to bash around.

 

[theLBC]

I'm going to miss this thread when the thumpers and the masters of finance get it killed.

We still have more Russians, Ukraineians and American thieves to bash around.

some member of zelensky's party is caught up in the corruption and bribery deal, and they are making a fuss like he's the only one.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/08/03/zelensky-party-mp-among-ukraine-officials-arrested-over-corruption/

not shocking...

 

[theLBC]

i wonder if it matters that they know and now everyone knows...or thinks they know...lol.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

i wonder if it matters that they know and now everyone knows...or thinks they know...lol.

The amount of false flags by all governments is staggering, but thank God the US is still in the lead.