AR-15 Makers Going Bankrupt?
- Thread starter Longshot231
- Start date
Honestly, most of them are little more than assemblers. Very few innovators in the gun world.
DD, BCM, PSA, KAC and maybe a few boutique shops will survive.
The REAL problem is the proliferation of lawsuits against manufacturers that Commie States are allowing. The SCOTUS needs to put a lid on that shit, ASAP.
DD, BCM, PSA, KAC and maybe a few boutique shops will survive.
The REAL problem is the proliferation of lawsuits against manufacturers that Commie States are allowing. The SCOTUS needs to put a lid on that shit, ASAP.
The UNO reverse card was played
Cheap AK's are now expensive
CNC equipment has made AR15s to be very inexpensive.
The vast majority of gun owners won't shoot 1,000 rounds in their life.
They buy a gun for defense, shoot it once and stick it in a closet.
Hunters - shoot 10 rounds to zero their rifle and then shoot 2-5 rounds each hunting season.
I say this as most people would be happy with an AR made from recycled bud light cans and don't worry about 6000 vs 7000 series alloys.
When building/ assembling it's the cheapest parts.... they don't know the joy of bending a charging handle as they got a $15 part that is very soft.
Like anything, the volume / commodity place is very difficult to be successful.
The vast majority of shooters won't buy an expensive AR
Not a surprise that the mid price point new brands are not going to survive.
Cheap AK's are now expensive
CNC equipment has made AR15s to be very inexpensive.
The vast majority of gun owners won't shoot 1,000 rounds in their life.
They buy a gun for defense, shoot it once and stick it in a closet.
Hunters - shoot 10 rounds to zero their rifle and then shoot 2-5 rounds each hunting season.
I say this as most people would be happy with an AR made from recycled bud light cans and don't worry about 6000 vs 7000 series alloys.
When building/ assembling it's the cheapest parts.... they don't know the joy of bending a charging handle as they got a $15 part that is very soft.
Like anything, the volume / commodity place is very difficult to be successful.
The vast majority of shooters won't buy an expensive AR
Not a surprise that the mid price point new brands are not going to survive.
Serious question. How many AR-15 are presently owned in the US? Even hardcore AR-15 owners have all they need or want.
Demand has definitely slowed.
Demand has definitely slowed.
This.
Plus several stripped lowers to build out or trade if the need arises; and most of our rifles have at least two uppers, so no lack of diversity or spares.
I’ve just been concentrating on training, and feeding those platforms for the long term over the past couple of years.
In the video it was said that there are at least 20 million AR-15s in the US.
Yeah, but what about outside my shooting group?
In 2013 while I was at the Colorado legislature, they were saying that the AR-15 had been the best selling rifle in America for over 15 years. In fact if memory serves, I believe that statement was used during the Heller arguments must earlier in 2008.
So add another 12-16 years and I personally think 20 million is a ludicrously low number……
Yep. I bet most "gun guys" already have the ARs they want and a few extra lowers in the safe just incase. Atleast that is my current situation. 10.5" 5.56, 8" .300blk, and 18" 6arc scratch all my itches for gassers. People that don't shoot regularly but like the idea of having an AR for whatever reason have probably already bought them.
And Seekins isn’t going anywhere. They’ve also expanded into other platforms
Freakin Seekins basically has the Vortex warranty too. Drop your rifle off a cliff……they got you.
I think you are right. My AR-15 and AR-10 are not dirt cheap but they are not the most expensive. But I find them reliable for the job expected. I have the Windham Weaponry Dissipator M4 A3 in 5.56 and I have the R16SFST-308 in 7.62 X 51 mm NATO.
Both have that 4150M chromed moly barrels.
The M4 A3 is light and just about no recoil, it is like shooting a PCC.
The AR-10 has a little more heft to it but I could easily hunt whitetail or hogs with it. More likely hogs.
So, yeah, I have not gone through thousands of rounds. I carry my M&P 9 mm on my hip every day and usually practice with one of my bolt guns for hunting. And even that is more dry fire than live fire.
frankly can't see how most are still active. eg small shows in my local area,say 30 tables,will show 200+/- for sale not counting walk around tries. most seem assembled by Bubba inc. prices seem to remain high with general inflation playing a part. still asking prices are silly high IMHO when one considers the huge #s FS. of course new trucks are all over and many go 80K or +,so. most guys in know that want 1 have 1-3,some 6. do they get shot? unlikely. mags i see,of all kinds,in multiple,multiple 100s. ammo is common but less volume than i would think and prices higher than one would think.
They have taken care of me since about 2009 or so. A 300BLK build I put together from parts on sale for Black Friday
Didn’t run right. They paid to mail it to them with some ammo rounds I loaded and factory rounds too. Diagnosed gas block off center and fixed it. They’re too busy to do that now they’ve said but it really made an impression. I’ve supported em since. They’ve handled a few other issues or found me builders kits.
Our son built me one. Nice rifle, but one is enough. If I had a Vietnam era M-16 that would be nice but I can’t imagine what I would do with it other than to say I have one. Too, no, FAR Too many other things I need/want even in these later years of my life that 40-50 thousand dollars would purchase.
Getting to the original subject. Go in virtually any gunshop, anywhere, and the wall(s) is/are filled with AR’s. I cannot believe the market is saturated.
Second thought, I really wonder how many rifles are being sold in the local gun shops. Sure, places like Bass Pro, and Simmon’s in Bastrop, LA sell plenty, but the local fellows who were the coner stone of the shooting sports. How are they doing.
Getting to the original subject. Go in virtually any gunshop, anywhere, and the wall(s) is/are filled with AR’s. I cannot believe the market is saturated.
Second thought, I really wonder how many rifles are being sold in the local gun shops. Sure, places like Bass Pro, and Simmon’s in Bastrop, LA sell plenty, but the local fellows who were the coner stone of the shooting sports. How are they doing.
car manufacturers solved this problem by building cars that begin to develop issues after 3-4 years and last 7 or 8 years before they die, so you have to keep buying
advert world had people in my parents gen buying every other year. got new fins and tail light shapes. part of being middle class back then.
When everyone was panic buying, 100 manufacturers (assemblers really) popped up to make a profit, selling products that they put zero innovation into.
When the panic subsides, those "manufacturers" have no market base to sell to. This has happened at least twice in the last decade. If they can survive to the next presidential election cycle, the 'need' will come back.
The big writing on the wall for me, is all of the bolt gun innovation by the truly large and innovative AR manufacturers (that aren't counting solely on government contracts).
When the panic subsides, those "manufacturers" have no market base to sell to. This has happened at least twice in the last decade. If they can survive to the next presidential election cycle, the 'need' will come back.
The big writing on the wall for me, is all of the bolt gun innovation by the truly large and innovative AR manufacturers (that aren't counting solely on government contracts).
^^^THIS is the example of the American consumer victim mentality.
Someone held a shotgun to this guy’s head and forced him to buy a car.
It is unfathomable to me how the most powerful purchasing demographic in the world, continues to believe they must eat whatever is served up at the trough, like good little swine.
We are victims though. Victims of our own victim mindset. WE are the “weak men”…….
Just bought a 3 pack from PSA 2 weeks ago. There 3 more for me.
I don't even know what calibers I'm gonna make them. Maybe a 300 BO pistol. But who knows yet.
Doc
Which is why I build my own. I have one done and parts for 3 more.
How consumers have the power to drive market based products.
Call me when I don’t have to send a photo and finger prints
Because stats show ,99,9% of AR15 are safe queens , warranties are not about quality but sales pitch gaming the stats , Typicaly inverse of product quality , a company that sells like 99% of inventory made in china can dole out Vortex warranty without blinking an eye , a company that only makes high end scopes domesticaly can't .
In addition to what's been stated, there's also a demographics angle. The Boomers are 25 years older than when this century started, and that affects both sides of the supply/demand relationship.
Boomers are finding out that exiting a family-owned small/medium business (SMB) is no easy matter, especially if there's a lack of interest by the kids or grandkids. For every company that has an apparent line of succession (like Tre Knight at KAC), you've got 10-20 businesses that are done when Grandpa decides to retire (or croaks). Even if you can find a buyer, good luck getting a bank to lend them money. The few companies that are viable will likely get bought up by PE forms and "optimized for efficiency".
On the demand side, the Boomers have stopped buying certain things of which they c already have plenty or that they're getting too old to use. Guns of all type are certainly in this category.
Despite what a few autistic posters on M4C and ARF.com believe, ARs are effectively a commodity to most users, and so we don't need 100 different companies making them. Our particular form of capitalism generally creates two different markets - one for government contractors where a certain type of competency is rewarded, and another for customers that is ruthlessly driven by efficiency. KAC and FN will likely stick around in the former category; the latter probably gets dominated by a couple of well-capitalized and well-managed orgs like PSA and Ruger. If you're a small guy, hopefully you've got assets that are desirable and a plan for packaging those into something interesting to a larger buyer, or otherwise they go the way of Windham and Del-Ton.
Boomers are finding out that exiting a family-owned small/medium business (SMB) is no easy matter, especially if there's a lack of interest by the kids or grandkids. For every company that has an apparent line of succession (like Tre Knight at KAC), you've got 10-20 businesses that are done when Grandpa decides to retire (or croaks). Even if you can find a buyer, good luck getting a bank to lend them money. The few companies that are viable will likely get bought up by PE forms and "optimized for efficiency".
On the demand side, the Boomers have stopped buying certain things of which they c already have plenty or that they're getting too old to use. Guns of all type are certainly in this category.
Despite what a few autistic posters on M4C and ARF.com believe, ARs are effectively a commodity to most users, and so we don't need 100 different companies making them. Our particular form of capitalism generally creates two different markets - one for government contractors where a certain type of competency is rewarded, and another for customers that is ruthlessly driven by efficiency. KAC and FN will likely stick around in the former category; the latter probably gets dominated by a couple of well-capitalized and well-managed orgs like PSA and Ruger. If you're a small guy, hopefully you've got assets that are desirable and a plan for packaging those into something interesting to a larger buyer, or otherwise they go the way of Windham and Del-Ton.
Or people run things into the ground and break shit because they don’t know how to recognize the warning signs or know how to fix it.
The other issue is new regulations pushing manufacturers to add things like cylinder deactivation, emissions equipment, thinner oils to meet miles/gallon regulations and epa regs. De regulate the auto industry and you will get better products.
As far as Ar assemblers and builders. Similar thing, the Gov has export arms control. Which keeps manufacturers from easily accessing foreign markets. Need to arm more 3rd world despot nations with US made gear. Badda bing badda boom. Every time I see some African paramilitary carrying an Ak it breaks my heart hes not carrying an AR
The other issue is new regulations pushing manufacturers to add things like cylinder deactivation, emissions equipment, thinner oils to meet miles/gallon regulations and epa regs. De regulate the auto industry and you will get better products.
What you are talking about is engineering things to last to when warranty is up, which is a thing.
As far as Ar assemblers and builders. Similar thing, the Gov has export arms control. Which keeps manufacturers from easily accessing foreign markets. Need to arm more 3rd world despot nations with US made gear. Badda bing badda boom. Every time I see some African paramilitary carrying an Ak it breaks my heart hes not carrying an AR
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good points. at close to 80 yo,i don't need 6 AKs,6 ARs,44 mags,338 mags etc. some,not all, my age lose interest in owning things that they don't use just to own something. "pride of ownership" is something my gen has been accurately dissed for. a lot of the the greats were bad about that.
C&R is also something i see dying out amongst guys in their 30s. like my gr sons,there are a lot of shooters that age that i know. none care about Peruvian mausers,SMLEs or 19th cent MNs. know a few collectors my ageish that have > 400 rifles. wonder what becomes of them after they are gone. ARs are a tool and most aren't gonna wear out a PSA gun. i'm not.
C&R is also something i see dying out amongst guys in their 30s. like my gr sons,there are a lot of shooters that age that i know. none care about Peruvian mausers,SMLEs or 19th cent MNs. know a few collectors my ageish that have > 400 rifles. wonder what becomes of them after they are gone. ARs are a tool and most aren't gonna wear out a PSA gun. i'm not.
Like any business really. I find many formerly well capitalized business owners to be short sighted, narrow minded, and extraordinary self destructive to their investment in the long term. The majority of businesses got lucky and think they are venture capitalists.
the AR,M16,M4 have a fascinating hx. wonder if total #s have passed the AK. not yet i think. i have seen pics from Ukraine of huge piles of them like Jap swords and rifles in 1945. Russ captures i guess? looks like both sides use ARs and 74s.
i guess supplying 5.45 and 5.56 isn't a problem.
does anybody know for sure if the Russ still use 7.62x54r in their MGs?
i guess supplying 5.45 and 5.56 isn't a problem.
does anybody know for sure if the Russ still use 7.62x54r in their MGs?
Baltimore scores big win with $62 million verdict against Maryland ghost gun retailer
A jury on Wednesday awarded Baltimore City the largest verdict ever against a Maryland ghost gun dealer.
www.cbsnews.com
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Automaker bailouts. (Save gm etc and the unsustainable union blackmail benefits ).
Tariffs on foreign cars tires etc
Bs CAFE standards
Bs emissions
Airline bailouts. (Fubar policies and tsa bs)
lol at anyone that thinks we have a free market
If any of yall are in the northeast , and need a reason to shoot your semis / shoot more than a box at a square range :
Held in South east and northeast PA , Virginia and I think Carolina.
Most fun you can have shooting
Held in South east and northeast PA , Virginia and I think Carolina.
Most fun you can have shooting
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