Ridgeline LPR vs Seekins SP223

[zekers7]

I’ve been waiting patiently for a Ridgeline LPR, but they’re taking forever to drop. Ideally, I’d pick up a receiver set, but those are just as hard to find. That got me looking around at alternatives, and I noticed the Seekins SP223 (DMR) can be picked up for around $1,400 — closer to $1,500 with the Arca rail — which seems like a great setup. The SP10s are well-proven, and their barrel interface does a great job minimizing flex for what it’s built to do.

Is there any real reason to hold out and spend the extra $1,200 on the LPR? There doesn’t seem to be much data on the SP223 — am I missing something?

 

[db2000]

Yeah, you’re missing all the data that’s out there. There’s a shit ton of it. I have no direct experience with Ridgeline but their reputation precedes them. You’re not gonna miss anything with Seekins, that’s their fault anyway. That’s a fact.

 

[db2000]

I’d buy this unless you’re dead set on 223.

Firearms - GAP-15 6 ARC

This thing is a beauty. I’ve never shot an AR this accurate. I don’t know what fairy dust GAP puts on this, but it works. I’ve only shot factory Hornady 108s out of this and it shoots sub 0.5 MOA (close to 1/3 MOA) all day long. I’ve attached a group to show that. This will come with 3 Duramags...

www.snipershide.com

 

[DOB161]

I would go with the Seekins. It’s available now, their customer service is known to be top tier and it seems most who have the 223 are happy with its accuracy.

If you go LPR, I would recommend waiting to see if they release the stripped upper/handguard by itself. That’s where the value is. Otherwise, my experience steers me away from them, especially for $1200 than a Seekins.

 

[ethanjaldridge]

I would go with the Seekins. It’s available now, their customer service is known to be top tier and it seems most who have the 223 are happy with its accuracy.

If you go LPR, I would recommend waiting to see if they release the stripped upper/handguard by itself. That’s where the value is. Otherwise, my experience steers me away from them, especially for $1200 than a Seekins.

Could you elaborate on your experience with the Ridgeline?

 

[DOB161]

Could you elaborate on your experience with the Ridgeline?

The rifle:
- Purchased off the initial batch/waitlist
- They had to do some markings to the lower after coating and they made the business decision to just put alumablack over it rather than doing it right and recoating (unacceptable business decision on a $3400 rifle), the rifle came with damage to the handguard from the bipod they used for test fire. (I spoke with Devon about this when I got it and he was great to deal with)
- the rifle was .8xx on test target, it was generally a 1 MOA gun. The constant IG marketing of .4-.6 consistently was just that, marketing.
- The gas block setup did show little to no signs of leakage which was nice.
- BCG gas key was very leaky at the base in addition to their known gas ring issue.
- The brass deflector is useless in the original iteration. The brass goes right over it and bounces off the forward assist. They made an inline change which they kept quiet it seems. No offer to those who purchased the original design to upgrade due to their design flaw.

Blem upper:
- Purchased last Black Friday timeframe.
- Arrived with excessive fouling in the chamber and muzzle area. I reached out and they confirmed they don’t test fire the uppers. When I pressed the issue I was told my upper was pulled from a full rifle. Essentially sold a used upper as a “Blem”.
- Gas block was considerably canted with the gas tube roll pin not driven in all the way. The pin had gouged the inside of the receiver and was evident it was hitting the inside of the rail when they were firing it.

I haven’t appreciated their business practices such as the boasting about an elite “owners club” which appears to be non existent. The dropping of the price considerably after people bought high at the waitlist price was lame.

All in all I think the upper/handguard combo is great but as a package the value isn’t there for me. I’ve since sold off the rifle and traded away the upper.

 

[ethanjaldridge]

The rifle:
- Purchased off the initial batch/waitlist
- They had to do some markings to the lower after coating and they made the business decision to just put alumablack over it rather than doing it right and recoating (unacceptable business decision on a $3400 rifle), the rifle came with damage to the handguard from the bipod they used for test fire. (I spoke with Devon about this when I got it and he was great to deal with)
- the rifle was .8xx on test target, it was generally a 1 MOA gun. The constant IG marketing of .4-.6 consistently was just that, marketing.
- The gas block setup did show little to no signs of leakage which was nice.
- BCG gas key was very leaky at the base in addition to their known gas ring issue.
- The brass deflector is useless in the original iteration. The brass goes right over it and bounces off the forward assist. They made an inline change which they kept quiet it seems. No offer to those who purchased the original design to upgrade due to their design flaw.

Blem upper:
- Purchased last Black Friday timeframe.
- Arrived with excessive fouling in the chamber and muzzle area. I reached out and they confirmed they don’t test fire the uppers. When I pressed the issue I was told my upper was pulled from a full rifle. Essentially sold a used upper as a “Blem”.
- Gas block was considerably canted with the gas tube roll pin not driven in all the way. The pin had gouged the inside of the receiver and was evident it was hitting the inside of the rail when they were firing it.

I haven’t appreciated their business practices such as the boasting about an elite “owners club” which appears to be non existent. The dropping of the price considerably after people bought high at the waitlist price was lame.

All in all I think the upper/handguard combo is great but as a package the value isn’t there for me. I’ve since sold off the rifle and traded away the upper.

Thank you for sharing. This is obviously different from what most are saying, but an n of 1 is still 1.

 

[DOB161]

Thank you for sharing. This is obviously different from what most are saying, but an n of 1 is still 1.

Yep, take it for what it’s worth. I’ve chatted with a couple other guys who’ve RMA’d uppers due to overly canted gas blocks as well.

I’d like to think they’ve remedied the issues and I chalk some of my experience up to buying into a training company taking a stab at manufacturing. Similar to how you shouldn’t buy the first model year car.

 

[mattman215]

I have a Seekins 223 dmr and I am very pleased with it. It shoots incredible.

 

[flogxal]

I'd bet these glitches with Ridgeline, where they happen, are due to the numbers of rifles ordered, compared to Ridgeline's probably conservative estimation. I think they were a bit overwhelmed. From my experience at their Scoped Carbine course -- they are serious about what they do, not half-assed in any way.

 

[JR1200W3]

I didn't have any issues with a canted gas block with my LPR, but I did suspect it to impact the inside of the handguard. I ended up pulling my barrel out and replacing it with a conventional barrel and gas block. I actually went through three gas blocks until I found one slim enough to not hit the rail. The first two I tried showed obvious fliers when I shot groups.

This is the factory gas block after I pulled the barrel. Looks like it was hitting the inside of the handguard.

This is the inside of the rail. All you can really make out is gas leakage.

When I pulled handgua I found this bur. I'm the upper receiver there's a ridge or alignment mark to mate with the groove inside the handguard but it looks like whoever assembled the upper caught the alignment ridge on the edge of the handguard and created the bur you see no sanded it down and didn't have any other issues.

I think the Proof barrel they use is kind of a dog. My gun came with a .8'something group but it was the biggest .8 group I ever saw. I think it said something like .824 but when I measured it I couldn't make it smaller than .880. but whatever, right? It was pretty inconsistent and that's why I pulled the barrel. With a new barrel, it's the best shooting AR I have.

Despite all this, I truly think they make the best upper receiver and handguard mating system made. At this point it's kind of an anomaly. If you got a rifle or upper, you got probably the best system out there. If LMT would make a 15" or 17" rail it would dethrone the LPR but if you want the best precision AR-15 upper/ receiver, this is it. It's definitely overpriced if you plan on stripping the parts out of it like I did, but I don't know where you could get a better builders kit. Money aside. They announced they were going to make a universal handguard..I think they're making new products and that's why you can't buy LPRs or builders kits anymore. I remain skeptical about a traditional handguard. It's a shame. It seems like they could've sold builders kits until the cows came home.

 

[Rob01]

Get the Seekins. I have had my Seekins SP3G for about 12 years and it’s accurate and it runs. Used it in 3 gun matches for a few years also. Nothing bad to say about Seekins at all.

 

[ethanjaldridge]

Get the Seekins. I have had my Seekins SP3G for about 12 years and it’s accurate and it runs. Used it in 3 gun matches for a few years also. Nothing bad to say about Seekins at all.

View attachment 8790086

Got one otw

 

[putput30]

I didn't have any issues with a canted gas block with my LPR, but I did suspect it to impact the inside of the handguard. I ended up pulling my barrel out and replacing it with a conventional barrel and gas block. I actually went through three gas blocks until I found one slim enough to not hit the rail. The first two I tried showed obvious fliers when I shot groups.

This is the factory gas block after I pulled the barrel. Looks like it was hitting the inside of the handguard.

View attachment 8789997View attachment 8790001

This is the inside of the rail. All you can really make out is gas leakage.

View attachment 8790002View attachment 8790003
When I pulled handgua I found this bur. I'm the upper receiver there's a ridge or alignment mark to mate with the groove inside the handguard but it looks like whoever assembled the upper caught the alignment ridge on the edge of the handguard and created the bur you see no sanded it down and didn't have any other issues.
View attachment 8790004

View attachment 8790005


I think the Proof barrel they use is kind of a dog. My gun came with a .8'something group but it was the biggest .8 group I ever saw. I think it said something like .824 but when I measured it I couldn't make it smaller than .880. but whatever, right? It was pretty inconsistent and that's why I pulled the barrel. With a new barrel, it's the best shooting AR I have.

Despite all this, I truly think they make the best upper receiver and handguard mating system made. At this point it's kind of an anomaly. If you got a rifle or upper, you got probably the best system out there. If LMT would make a 15" or 17" rail it would dethrone the LPR but if you want the best precision AR-15 upper/ receiver, this is it. It's definitely overpriced if you plan on stripping the parts out of it like I did, but I don't know where you could get a better builders kit. Money aside. They announced they were going to make a universal handguard..I think they're making new products and that's why you can't buy LPRs or builders kits anymore. I remain skeptical about a traditional handguard. It's a shame. It seems like they could've sold builders kits until the cows came home.

When you say universal handguard do you just mean standard barrel nut and mil spec uppers? Wonder if they'll make an sr25 variant for large frames if that's true.

 

[JR1200W3]

When you say universal handguard do you just mean standard barrel nut and mil spec uppers? Wonder if they'll make an sr25 variant for large frames if that's true.

All I know is what I read on the LPR thread. If i recall correctly which I probably don't. It is some sort of more mil-spec or universal type of handguard

 

[flogxal]

When you say universal handguard do you just mean standard barrel nut and mil spec uppers? Wonder if they'll make an sr25 variant for large frames if that's true.

Based on their responses in the LPR thread, it seems they are hit hard just by the .223 version even if they are thinking about a 6 ARC version also in small frame. I would bet large frame is a ways off if it is even on the map.

 

[JR1200W3]

I think my top 4 builders kits or parts I would build off of right now would be a Seekins, the Ridgeline, the JP CTR-23 chassis, and an LMT MRPL. I haven't messed with the JP yet but that is the next builders kit that I'm going to buy. I haven't built off a seekins small frame yet either, but if it is like the sp10, I think it's a decent option, but the LPR handguard is way more rigid. The LMT would obviously be super rigid but the proprietary extension conversions add cost and worse, gunsmith conversion lag time. Their other problem is the short forends.

 

[db2000]

I think my top 4 builders kits or parts I would build off of right now would be a Seekins, the Ridgeline, the JP CTR-23 chassis, and an LMT MRPL. I haven't messed with the JP yet but that is the next builders kit that I'm going to buy. I haven't built off a seekins small frame yet either, but if it is like the sp10, I think it's a decent option, but the LPR handguard is way more rigid. The LMT would obviously be super rigid but the proprietary extension conversions add cost and worse, gunsmith conversion lag time. Their other problem is the short forends.

Could you elaborate on your statement that the LPR is “way more rigid”?

 

[Rob01]

Yeah would like to hear that too as the Seekins in my pic is very solid and rigid and not sure how you would get more than it.

 

[db2000]

I have a ton of Seekins gassers, small and large frame. I’ve never had any flex issues. Seems like a far fetched statement is all.

 

[JR1200W3]

Could you elaborate on your statement that the LPR is “way more rigid”?

Sure. The overlap on the handguard, over the upper is probably 2 times longer than my SP-10. And it's a thermal fit unlike the SP-10 where the handguard slips over the upper extension. I would say the Seekins handguard, on the SP-10 at least, require the screws to fix or make rigid the handguard to the receiver. And the handguard thickness that overlaps the extended receiver portion is much thicker. Additionally, on the LPR the 6 o'clock, rear portion of the handguard is like a ducks bill that extends 2" under the upper, countering leverage. Even without the mechanical locking tabs that the LPR uses versus Seekins screws, you can't pull the handguard off or even wiggle it a little bit because it has an interface fit with double the overlap and a beefed up 6 o'clock extension. The good news is that when the handguard is removed from the barrel nut as in both designs, the rigidity of the handguard is probably much less important. But owning both designs, the LPR takes it to another level.

 

[db2000]

Sure. The overlap on the handguard, over the upper is probably 2 times longer than my SP-10. And it's a thermal fit unlike the SP-10 where the handguard slips over the upper extension. I would say the Seekins handguard, on the SP-10 at least, require the screws to fix or make rigid the handguard to the receiver. And the handguard thickness that overlaps the extended receiver portion is much thicker. Additionally, on the LPR the 6 o'clock, rear portion of the handguard is like a ducks bill that extends 2" under the upper, countering leverage. Even without the mechanical locking tabs that the LPR uses versus Seekins screws, you can't pull the handguard off or even wiggle it a little bit because it has an interface fit with double the overlap and a beefed up 6 o'clock extension. The good news is that when the handguard is removed from the barrel nut as in both designs, the rigidity of the handguard is probably much less important. But owning both designs, the LPR takes it to another level.

Very interesting. My Seekins DMR hand guards are a very tight fit requiring a mallet to tap them fully on. I haven’t thermal fit them. Then 12 hex screws. I just can’t imagine anything else is needed. I get all the over lap and under lap. You could also weld it on there. My point is if there’s zero movement, then there’s no way to improve on zero movement. Until someone shows a slow motion video or something, I just don’t see it being a thing. Thanks for the input though. I haven’t used an LPR. I have no doubt it’s an excellent rifle.

 

[zekers7]

Ideally would love to get a LPR builders kit. Hope they re-release them

 

[Rob01]

Very interesting. My Seekins DMR hand guards are a very tight fit requiring a mallet to tap them fully on. I haven’t thermal fit them. Then 12 hex screws. I just can’t imagine anything else is needed. I get all the over lap and under lap. You could also weld it on there. My point is if there’s zero movement, then there’s no way to improve on zero movement. Until someone shows a slow motion video or something, I just don’t see it being a thing. Thanks for the input though. I haven’t used an LPR. I have no doubt it’s an excellent rifle.

Exactly. That Seekins is not going anywhere or doing any flexing. The LPR may be another level but it’s a level that I highly doubt is needed over the Seekins in a .223 rifle. I have slammed my SP3G into barricades, walls and tossed it into barrels and never an issue. It’s very sturdy.

 

[MontanaMan]

I’ve been waiting patiently for a Ridgeline LPR, but they’re taking forever to drop. Ideally, I’d pick up a receiver set, but those are just as hard to find. That got me looking around at alternatives, and I noticed the Seekins SP223 (DMR) can be picked up for around $1,400 — closer to $1,500 with the Arca rail — which seems like a great setup. The SP10s are well-proven, and their barrel interface does a great job minimizing flex for what it’s built to do.

Is there any real reason to hold out and spend the extra $1,200 on the LPR? There doesn’t seem to be much data on the SP223 — am I missing something?

Seekins, all day, every day.

Everything they do is very good & they are great people to deal with.

If you really want the benchmark in LPR's, find a KAC (either version) with a Krieger barrel, pay the money, & never look back. It's the last rifle that will ever leave my possession.

IMHO, Ridgeline pales in comparison.

YMMV

MM

 

[JR1200W3]

Don't get me wrong. Everytime I shoot my SP-10, I appreciate it more.

 

[BurtG]

Exactly. That Seekins is not going anywhere or doing any flexing. The LPR may be another level but it’s a level that I highly doubt is needed over the Seekins in a .223 rifle. I have slammed my SP3G into barricades, walls and tossed it into barrels and never an issue. It’s very sturdy.

You put a TracIR clip on , on a lot of these rifles that have “zero flex”. And it will really open your eyes.

 

[BurtG]

Seekins, all day, every day.

Everything they do is very good & they are great people to deal with.

If you really want the benchmark in LPR's, find a KAC (either version) with a Krieger barrel, pay the money, & never look back. It's the last rifle that will ever leave my possession.

IMHO, Ridgeline pales in comparison.

YMMV

MM

Have you tested the poi shift from different positions ?


Ridgeline is top tier

 

[db2000]

You put a TracIR clip on , on a lot of these rifles that have “zero flex”. And it will really open your eyes.

We’re talking about Seekins in particular. I don’t remember anyone inviting you to the adult table. Please refrain from commenting if you can’t keep up.
Bullshit a Seekins flexes with POI shift. If this was a fact, you’d hear about it all over PRS and real life….then Seekins would fix it. Having to bang a hand guard on with a mallet then 12 hex screws securing it… Only a retard would believe that’s going to flex to any degree that makes a difference.
“I missed a shot, must’ve been POI shift due to flex in my rifle! Thank God, I almost thought it was my fault.”

 

[BurtG]

We’re talking about Seekins in particular. I don’t remember anyone inviting you to the adult table. Please refrain from commenting if you can’t keep up.
Bullshit a Seekins flexes with POI shift. If this was a fact, you’d hear about it all over PRS and real life….then Seekins would fix it. Having to bang a hand guard on with a mallet then 12 hex screws securing it… Only a retard would believe that’s going to flex to any degree that makes a difference.
“I missed a shot, must’ve been POI shift due to flex in my rifle! Thank God, I almost thought it was my fault.”

Ok douche bag 2000. I’ve seen the “groups” you post.

I own multiple Seekins a factory rd15 and a builders kit with a 6arc barrel.

I’ve used TracIR on a lot of platforms. It shows you very quickly which fore ends flex. If that results in poi shift is a different matter

 

[Wormydog1724]

people been so cranky lately

people been so cranky

people cranky

 

[db2000]

Ok douche bag 2000. I’ve seen the “groups” you post.

I own multiple Seekins a factory rd15 and a builders kit with a 6arc barrel.

I’ve used TracIR on a lot of platforms. It shows you very quickly which fore ends flex. If that results in poi shift is a different matter

No one’s arguing that hand guards flex. It’s physics. Seekins semi-monolithic don’t flex to any degree that’s significant in POI in the real world. Also, there’s a lot of other variables involved. I know you’re too dumb to understand this but I’ll try and spell it out with crayons. Bipod, bipod mount, potential rail mount, THE SHOOTER. Anyone can post all the “research” they’ve conducted and the results but until you equalize those and other variables, it’s just anecdotes.

 

[djarecke]

I didn't have any issues with a canted gas block with my LPR, but I did suspect it to impact the inside of the handguard. I ended up pulling my barrel out and replacing it with a conventional barrel and gas block. I actually went through three gas blocks until I found one slim enough to not hit the rail. The first two I tried showed obvious fliers when I shot groups.

This is the factory gas block after I pulled the barrel. Looks like it was hitting the inside of the handguard.

View attachment 8789997View attachment 8790001

This is the inside of the rail. All you can really make out is gas leakage.

View attachment 8790002View attachment 8790003
When I pulled handgua I found this bur. I'm the upper receiver there's a ridge or alignment mark to mate with the groove inside the handguard but it looks like whoever assembled the upper caught the alignment ridge on the edge of the handguard and created the bur you see no sanded it down and didn't have any other issues.
View attachment 8790004

View attachment 8790005


I think the Proof barrel they use is kind of a dog. My gun came with a .8'something group but it was the biggest .8 group I ever saw. I think it said something like .824 but when I measured it I couldn't make it smaller than .880. but whatever, right? It was pretty inconsistent and that's why I pulled the barrel. With a new barrel, it's the best shooting AR I have.

Despite all this, I truly think they make the best upper receiver and handguard mating system made. At this point it's kind of an anomaly. If you got a rifle or upper, you got probably the best system out there. If LMT would make a 15" or 17" rail it would dethrone the LPR but if you want the best precision AR-15 upper/ receiver, this is it. It's definitely overpriced if you plan on stripping the parts out of it like I did, but I don't know where you could get a better builders kit. Money aside. They announced they were going to make a universal handguard..I think they're making new products and that's why you can't buy LPRs or builders kits anymore. I remain skeptical about a traditional handguard. It's a shame. It seems like they could've sold builders kits until the cows came home.

My experience is the same as the other gentlemen here. My test target is .8 something but the gun never shot under 1.1. I tried umpteen different factory and handloads but that didn’t help. I too had a gas block that was hitting the handguard, so I stripped the Proof barrel and gas block and put a WOA in there and now it is amongst the most accurate AR’s I’ve owned. Big Jake built me an upper and that is what I’d go to in the future. His is perfect and shoots like a bolt gun. Proof barrels are my least favorite barrel as this is the 3rd one of theirs that was mediocre at best.

 

[Jsp556]

I like Seekins products. I have a SP10. I built a Grendel off a Seekins set. If I were in the market for a new, factory 556 gun, I’d probably buy one of their 16” DMR’s.

This is just my opinion and I’m sure I’ll get some hate for it. When you get right down to it, the SP223 is just a nicer version of the Aero enhanced. That’s not trashing it, I like both the Seekins and the Aero. The handguards of both aren’t an interference fit, they didnt even try. Both rely on the screws for any rigidity. The only improvement over the aero are walls of the upper are thicker on the Seekins. Neither need heat to seat a barrel. The upper/lower fit has some slop. I only care about the upper flex. I don’t use lasers so I could care less about any flexing of the handguard. I’m not so confident in Seekins’ small parts either. MIM bolt catches aren’t exactly confidence inspiring. I’m not a huge fan of their Melonited bcgs either.

I’ll eventually pick up a RIdgeline. Maybe. At nearly twice the price I’d expect the Ridgeline to be better.

If you compare the SP223 to an SP10 you’ll be disappointed with the small frame version.

 

[Rob01]

You put a TracIR clip on , on a lot of these rifles that have “zero flex”. And it will really open your eyes.

You obviously have never had a Seekins SP3G AR. lol

 

[MikeMiller]

Can’t comment on Ridgeline only because I never used one, but Seekins rifles are a Best Buy in the industry. Plus Seekins is a great guy.

 

[db2000]

My experience is the same as the other gentlemen here. My test target is .8 something but the gun never shot under 1.1. I tried umpteen different factory and handloads but that didn’t help. I too had a gas block that was hitting the handguard, so I stripped the Proof barrel and gas block and put a WOA in there and now it is amongst the most accurate AR’s I’ve owned. Big Jake built me an upper and that is what I’d go to in the future. His is perfect and shoots like a bolt gun. Proof barrels are my least favorite barrel as this is the 3rd one of theirs that was mediocre at best.

You changed 2 variables (unless you put the same gas block back on the WOA, still removing it changes that variable too) so it’s impossible to blame the Proof barrel, just fyi. The elephant in the room was your gas block hitting the rail. You could’ve just addressed that first. That would’ve been the simplest and least expensive likely. Not that WOA was a bad choice. Just my $0.02

 

[BurtG]

You obviously have never had a Seekins SP3G AR. lol

I have at least 3. Nice. But no Ridgeline or Vltor poly when it comes to flex

 

[BurtG]

Proof barrels are my least favorite barrel as this is the 3rd one of theirs that was mediocre at best.

Mine have been unbelievably accurate

 

[JR1200W3]

You changed 2 variables (unless you put the same gas block back on the WOA, still removing it changes that variable too) so it’s impossible to blame the Proof barrel, just fyi. The elephant in the room was your gas block hitting the rail. You could’ve just addressed that first. That would’ve been the simplest and least expensive likely. Not that WOA was a bad choice. Just my $0.02

The gas block and journal on the LPR are proprietary so actually it makes sense to just replace them both. I borescoped the LPRs proof barrel and it surprisingly didn't have the usual lapped shiny finish you see in a cut rifled barrel or Proof's normal blanks.

I don't know why you keep trying to swim upstream with your assertions. You're talking to guys that have both guns. You don't.

 

[db2000]

The gas block and journal on the LPR are proprietary so actually it makes sense to just replace them both. I borescoped the LPRs proof barrel and it surprisingly didn't have the usual lapped shiny finish you see in a cut rifled barrel or Proof's normal blanks.

I don't know why you keep trying to swim upstream with your assertions. You're talking to guys that have bot

First, I wasn’t talking to you.
Second, my point remains he can’t factually blame the Proof when he changed others variables too.
Also, I find it hard to believe there’s not a different, proprietary or not, gas block that would fit the Proof and not hit the hand guard. Regardless, that part is irrelevant to my point about blaming the Proof barrel. Surely you’re smarter than to argue that.

 

[JR1200W3]

Have you tested the poi shift from different positions ?

For a law abiding citizen there's really only 5 ways to use a gun. Collect them, hunt with them, shoot at a designated range in accordance with the ranges rules or RSOs, cart them around everywhere you go under the auspice of self-defense, or participate in competitions.

I think an overwhelming amount of gun owners only shoot on concrete benches at the range. Very controlled environment, narrow and limited application. A smaller number are basically that but spend a lot of time with their guns. Riding around in the vehicle with them, some hunting, but still no simulated environment that challenges them and their guns abilities in a variety of situations and positions. You can kind of tell the guys on here that are collectors and occasional range plinkers or cyclic load developers by how much they value certain things. When a guy says he thinks rail flex is oversold, you know he doesn't shoot enough, at a high enough level, in an environment where getting your gas gun to perform like a bolt gun, as judged by a third parties metric, where the results are put in front of your face to value a rigid handguard.

 

[JR1200W3]

First, I wasn’t talking to you.
Second, my point remains he can’t factually blame the Proof when he changed others variables too.
Also, I find it hard to believe there’s not a different, proprietary or not, gas block that would fit the Proof and not hit the hand guard. Regardless, that part is irrelevant to my point about blaming the Proof barrel. Surely you’re smarter than to argue that.

That's alright. I'm talking to you big shooter.

I think you should stop trying to suppress other people's experiences and assessments of the guns they own and you don't.

 

[db2000]

That's alright. I'm talking to you big shooter.

I think you should stop trying to suppress other people's experiences and assessments of the guns they own and you don't.

Cool story bro.
Please post your “3rd party metrics” showing how the LPR is so much better in the flex department than a Seekins. You’re the retard making wild statements like that. I never said flex isn’t a thing. I’ve stated that already for you slow tards.


I’ll wait.

 

[JR1200W3]

Cool story bro.
Please post your “3rd party metrics” showing how the LPR is so much better in the flex department than a Seekins. You’re the retard making wild statements like that. I never said flex isn’t a thing. I’ve stated that already for you slow tards.


I’ll wait.

Shifting burden of proof fallacy. Let's do this,

Here's my shooting with a Seekins

Here's your shooting with a Seekins(you should be embarrassed)

Who's the retard?

 

[db2000]

Shifting burden of proof fallacy. Let's do this,

Come on man, my rifle was flexing. That wasn’t my fault. You said it.
And you’re lying about your groups. Seekins can’t possibly shoot that good with all the flex in the upper. Member. Member.

 

[JR1200W3]

Just remember @db2000, all this started because you feigned a good faith question and I gave you the benefit of the doubt and answered your question respectfully, in good faith. And then you wanted to argue, mitigate, and deny the response. Making evident the motivation behind your question. Like, what the fuck are you afraid of? Your precious Seekins got out did by another company in ONE aspect? It hurts so bad? You're afraid you're going to feel pressured to have to go buy another rifle to get the tippy top of semi monolithic uppers?

Couldn't you tell I was giving an unbiased assessment based on owning both brands. I wasn't exactly kind to Ridgeline in the other areas. And then multiple people chimed in to confirm and agree with my assessment. And then you start fighting them.

Dude, you're the problem. Just take deep breath and walk away. You can't control the whole world and everyone's experiences.

 

[db2000]

Just remember @db2000, all this started because you feigned a good faith question and I gave you the benefit of the doubt and answered your question respectfully, in good faith. And then you wanted to argue, mitigate, and deny the response. Making evident the motivation behind your question. Like, what the fuck are you afraid of? Your precious Seekins got out did by another company in ONE aspect? It hurts so bad? You're afraid you're going to feel pressured to have to go buy another rifle to get the tippy top of semi monolithic uppers?

Couldn't you tell I was giving an unbiased assessment based on owning both brands. I wasn't exactly kind to Ridgeline in the other areas. And then multiple people chimed in to confirm and agree with my assessment. And then you start fighting them.

Dude, you're the problem. Just take deep breath and walk away. You can't control the whole world and everyone's experiences.

It’s a discussion forum. I called BS on your good faith statement. That’s all it was. We have different opinions. But stating things as fact without proof is just opinion…which is fine but we can still discuss it. Also, I was offering my own opinion with the other guy without being rude. I’d still like to see 3rd party metrics you mentioned showing how much stronger the LPR is over Seekins.

 

[BurtG]

Seekins are great accurate rifles with high qc. Good accuracy and very little shift I think we all can agree on that

 

[JR1200W3]

We have different opinions. But stating things as fact without proof is just opinion…which is fine but we can still discuss it. Also, I was offering my own opinion with the other guy without being rude. I’d still like to see 3rd party metrics you mentioned showing how much stronger the LPR is over Seekins.

You have no leg to stand on to call bullshit. You have literally no evidence to the contrary because you don't have an LPR. If you and I were standing in the same room with a Seekins and an LPR upper, handguard, and lower weight could both see the difference objectively. But we're not. And you don't have samples to compare. So when someone that does, explains in pretty plain and logical points, who the fuck are you to just outright call someone a liar? Because that's all you can do. I explained the features that make the LPR upper and handguard more rigid and you......"call bullshit"? Like I'm just blatantly lying that the LPR has a thermal fit, thicker handguard mating, more mating surface, reinforced 6 o'clock dovetail, and superior mechanical locking tabs instead of tiny ass screws on a slip fit surface? What the fuck are you calling bullshit on? You can't point to any one of those facts and say they don't exist without just resorting to flat earther logic. Or you just can't accept it because you're biased?

Also, you can't have an opinion on something you don't have any experience with. That's just you making shit up.