Re: .30'06 vs .308
Taseal-
MM is getting 2675 from his 26" barreled <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">308</span></span> and 2720 from the 22.5" barreled <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">30-06</span></span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matthewusmc8791</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could think of 20+ calibers that could do that with ease and actually do it further and flatter. Beside the military use for it, the 308 is a short range tool. I don't think too many ethical hunters would want to take game past 500yds with a 308.
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Time for me to link to
Salazar's article.
I largely agree with this and yet I wonder how many people ethically take animals too far beyond, say, 600 yards. Field accuracy is going to be about 1 MOA (probably a but more, actually, it is not just the accuracy of the weapon, but the wind read and the ranging and getting correct drops).
According to Salazar, he is getting better scores at and inside of 600 yards with the 308 due to its inherent accuracy. Beyond 600 yards, the superior ballistics of the 30'06 take over.
1 MOA gives me about 6" to work with at 600 yards. The ethical dilemma is a combination of retained energy and accuracy. At 600 yards, the 308 has both the energy and accuracy to kill a medium sized game animal. (150 - 250 lbs)
Going beyond 600 to 800 or 1,000, your accuracy is running out. Now you are talking +/- 10" - 12". That is getting out of the kill zone for most medium sized game. To boot, your 7mm and 6.5 mm bullets don't have the retained energy of the 7.62mm, so you are stuck with 30'06 or 308 Win Mag or RUM or .338's.
I would not call the 308 a short range tool. It is a great medium range tool. When you get beyond 600 yards, you have other considerations, like actually being able to ethically hit what you are aiming at. This makes the 308 a pretty powerful tool... it runs out of gas at just the point that accuracy becomes a major consideration for all cartridges.
It is difficult to argue with the 30'06, though. It will do everything the 308 will do. But once you stretch the range beyond 600 yards, you really need to worry about the size of that kill zone and the fact that you are going to actually have to find that animal. The 30'06 buys you maybe an extra hundred yards or two. At 800, I don't know if I would take that shot regardless of cartridge. I know many do, though. </div></div>
Keep in mind that German Salazar's numbers are for positional shooting. This does not beget the best groups possible from a platform, what it measures is that a highly consistent shooter at his level is more consistent with the 308 over the higher recoiling, longer bolt throw 30-06. The odd man out there is the 6XC but what do we know about the 6mm in regards to the two 30's? His numbers and years behind the rifle in 308 and 30-06 shows more time/exposure than with the 6mm "pea shooter".
I have little doubt that Salazar would run circles around everyone in this thread when it comes to his discipline and he certainly has the pedigree talk about what wins matches.
I don't necessarily buy the stackup he has based on "inherent accuracy" of a case. This isn't short range benchrest with 6PPC's and the like. That game has the human factor largely removed. That is highly different than what Salazar is doing and what we're doing around here. The human element is arguably the biggest factor at play, my opinion is that once the gear is settled (reliable scope, rifle, etc. then the human factor IS the biggest question).
Notice as well that the spread of all things involved is a few tenths of a percent in points amassed by one particular High Master.
There's likely fewer than 1000 people in the country as well qualified in Salazar's discipline and how does the "inherent accuracy" of a round that can potentially shoot 0.1 MOA agg's at 600yd make a bit of difference over a round that can potentially shoot 0.1005 MOA agg's at 600yd make a flip of difference in positional or tactical precision or belly bench rest?
The human factor is FAR MORE IMPORTANT in this argument over anything else. A piss poor shooter with a 338 LM will get their hat handed to them by a high level 223 or 308 shooter because of the human factor.
Equally paired shooters (or the same shooter) shooting those 2 different calibers will likely see a difference not based upon the inherent accuracy nonsense but because of the different behavior of the extra recoil, barrel length, and wind characteristics of the two rounds.
