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Gunsmithing CAD/CAM to learn on??

GasLight

GasLight

That Guy
Banned !
Full Member
Minuteman
May 2, 2008
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Bozeman, MT
www.thevaultgunandloan.com
Hey all, this is really more of a hypothetical thing at the moment, but I am curious what a good starter CAD/CAM package would be. Something to learn on, but functional at the same time. I seem to see a lot of Master Cam and Solidworks, but holy s*#t that stuff is expensive. What else is out there that is a LOT more affordable?

Thanks!

Dave
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

If you can sign up for a college class, you can get a student version of solidworks.

Onyx
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onyx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can sign up for a college class, you can get a student version of solidworks.

Onyx </div></div>

Taking a class will be a good way to go. You'll get a version of the software and more importantly learn the software. Mastercam and Solidworks are expensive, but probably the lowest price point of entry.

Do you already have a CNC?
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

I don't have the ability to go to a machining course at this time. I took the local beginner manual class that was offered, but the closest full blown machining course is over an hour away (read not possible to attend school full time right now).

I do not have a CNC right now, but am keeping my eyes open. I just wanted to find something "affordable" to learn on CAD wise, while I search for a machine.

Thanks again!

Dave
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

Do a search on BobCad...not bad for the money. You can even down load a trial version for free to get your feet wet. Aspire is another one to look at. You can also down load a trial version of that to learn on. Its much more expensive at $2,000 but Aspire also writes g-code, and very well I might add. Aspire was developed for relief sign making but don't let that fool you. Although not a true engineering program like Solidworks or Autocad it is very intuitive. If you want to get into engineering though, Solidworks and Autocad are two of the industry leaders.

Jon
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

If you are interested in open source (read that as - computer tinkering), you can have a look at some Linux stuff. There is a custom Ubuntu release directed at CNC machining. I built up a VM on an ESXi hypervisor to give it a try, but I haven't gotten much time to play around with it yet. There are a few open source CAD programs out there, but from what I could tell, they all kind of sucked compared to Solidworks, Catia, Inventor, etc...

http://www.linuxcnc.org/ if you want to take a peek

I would be interested to see what you come up with if you don't mind reporting back!
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

Gaslight,
I have been a SolidWorks, AutoCAD, and SolidEdge user for many years. My suggestion would be to start with a full featured 2D CAD system first. Most 3D designs start out as extrusions of 2 dimensional constructs. Up until a couple of years ago, AutoCAD had the corner on high end 2D CAD. About a year or so ago, Dassault Systemes (the makers of SolidWorks and Catia) intruduced DraftSight, a free 2D CAD system designed to go head to head with the 2D functionality of AutoCAD. It is a very nice system, and there are versions for Windows, Mac, and Linux. Download it, study the free online tutorials and give it a shot. Good luck. Please feel free to PM me if you have any additional questions.

Best,
Brad
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brad Starcevich</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gaslight,
DraftSight, a free 2D CAD system designed to go head to head with the 2D functionality of AutoCAD. It is a very nice system, </div></div>

+1 - good free software. Very similar to AutoCAD but FREE.

I use AutoCAD, Solidworks, and FeatureCAM - they all have their purpose and no single one does everything.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

look into what the local communtity colleges offer. I know you said you cant swing a class right now but it might worth it to sign up for it for the discounted student version of the software and just blow off the class.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

If your computer/book literate you can skip the college.

Seriously.

First, ensure you have a PC at home that'll run the software well. You want dual monitors and a graphics card designed for CAD work. Gamer cards don't cut it.

RAM, you can never have too much. A solid state HD is even better.

Yes, it's expensive. . .because its worth it.

I started with MC version 7 on a Pentium I 486 14 years ago. It'd take close to 5 minutes for it to load and the first time I used the verification on a surface it took close to an hour for it to load/run.

Buy a good puter if you don't already have one. My "hot rodded" ASUS from Best Buy has been a good machine.

Next:

Visit the college book store or start hunting on Amazon. You can pick up a student copy of MasterCam along with a manual for around $150 bucks. (give or take)

Spend the money, do the turtorials, and in about 6 months you'll be up to speed on things. The rest you can just learn as you go.

Student versions won't allow you to post code, but it'll at least get you drawing and learning to run tool paths.

If it'll expand into a surfacing package great! Buy the next manual and have at it. MasterCam is a manufacturing software package. It's not really handy for design work. Surfaces and solids can be a little frustrating at times when trying to create them from scratch. This is where something like SolidWorks/Pro E/Inventor really comes in handy. Any of these will import straight into "X" or later versions of MC. From there it's pretty easy to generate tool paths.

Hope this helps and saves you some Shekels.


Last: If my opinion has any weight I'd like to offer this: CNC is great. I'd never give it up. However if your new to machining I urge you to go with extreme caution. Rapid rates, a G91 where a G90 is supposed to go, failure to use the right height offset, etc. Any of these will destroy a machine and potentially wrap you up tight in a spindle in the blink of an eye.

These machines can kill you just as easily as a gun can. Never forget that.

Also, when cutting steel on a manual machine you eventually develop a feel for what works and what doesn't. CNC's don't give you that direct "feel" feedback. You learn to use your eyes and ears more than you do your hands. I can hear one of my machines goof up from the parking lot. Chip evacuation is usually the culprit. Coolant lines love to plug up or suck air and cavitate the pump. That's a sure way to nuke a cutter/destroy a part.

Not trying to talk you out of it. I encourage you. Just use a student mind and go slow.

Good luck and be safe,

C.

 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

You can do a whole lot with the Alibre Design Personal Edition, it's only $99-$199 (I forget which offhand). Unfortunately you'll still need a CAM package with it and I haven't found a low-cost option for that I was pleased with. In the end I went ahead and dropped the $$ on Alibre CAM just for the integration benefits.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

I spent time in a class using Feature CAM. This seemed to be a very powerful, yet simple to use package for what we were doing.

Handles both Mill and Lathe programming, 2D and 3D milling.

I understand it is quite expensive though.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adam B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know a guy that really likes this software

http://www.bobcad.com/ </div></div>

One of the worst decisions I've ever made is giving Bobcad my contact info. Their sales team is by far the worst I've ever dealt with. I wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole knowing what I know now.

I think a student version of Solidworks for $129 and a copy of HSMExpress (free 2D version of HSMWorks) would be an excellent start. I wouldn't worry about learning CAM packages until you have the basics of CAD and how CNC machines work. Kind of trying to run before you can walk type of deal.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

Bobcad Cam. What is so bad about it? Specifics please.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

I've used Solidworks, Catia, and Autodesk Inventor. I am partial mostly to inventor, but that is what I have the most experience on. Solidworks seems to be a popular choice and is pretty intuitive to use. The tutorials in Inventor are great to follow along and the knowledge base really allows you to do almost anything you want. If not, there is always youtube.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

Ultimately you want simplicity.

Will the software post code that doesn't require a ton of editing, how does it post code ect. . .

Example:

Say your trying to machine a barrel channel. You create a revolved surface, selest your containment, set speeds/feeds, stepover, etc.

Only to have your machine go into a coma when you load the program.

Why?

If its cheap software it wont give the option to create arcs instead of splines. Splines are short line segments. Imagine a 2" circle. You can write it as a g2 and tell the machine everything you need to tell it on one line of code.

Do it as a spline and you could consume 100 blocks (lines) of memory. Buffer rates, etc become taxed and it slows everything down.


Arcs machine smooth, splines don't. To create smooth/efficient tool paths you need to be able to manipulate the work planes easily . If the software wont automatically change work planes you'll have these studdering tool paths that consume huge resources in the machine, are hard on the ball screws, and leave horrible finishes on parts.

Other stuff:

G41/G42 turns on cutter compensation. Very powerful tool with cnc stuff. You must turn it on/off when executing a G1 movement. Can't do it on an arc (G2/G3) if the code does this you have to either edit your post processor (no small feat) or go into your editor and rewrite everything.

Time is money. . .

C.
 
Re: CAD/CAM to learn on??

if you are new to cnc programming, I would buy whatever software you can afford and give it a try. Featurecam is probably one of the easiest to learn and yet powerful enough to machine complex surfaces. I prefer Surfcam or Gibbs to Mastercam, but that is a Ford vs Chevy thing. Grab a good G-code book and study it, that is probably the most valuable tool you could ever own. A good understanding of G-code will you get you a long way.

If there isn't a ball endmill involved I almost always fat finger the program right at the machine.
 
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