F T/R Competition Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

[oud272]

I’ve just started loading for a Savage F/TR 308 and was surprised how short I needed to load the 175 SMK. This is my first F/TR and was curious to see if this was normal. Are the chambers “short” on the 308 F/TR?

Measured data. 175 SMK just touching the lands:
To ogive 2.216” (using Hornady gauge) C.O.L. approx. 2.800”
Based on this 175 FGM would just be touching the lands.


As soon as the weather breaks I’ll be evaluating the following loads:
175 SMK, to ogive 2.196” (0.020” jump) C.O.L. approx 2.780
43.7 - 45.2gr Varget (just compressing at 45.2gr)
Winchester Brass
Wolf primer
Am I in the right region to hit an accuracy node for the F/TR?

As soon as I get hold of some 155.5 fullbore I’ll try these but for the moment I am using 175 SMK as I have them.

 

[XTR]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

Short chambers are not the standard but 2.8 OAL is pretty close to all you can get to fit in a mag. I was surprised to learn that the chamber in my new Krieger was cut to similar numbers.

When/if you get into custom barrels I'd suggest that you get your own reamer from PTG. I've got one that should be here soon, that way all your chambers will be cut the same from here on in. I think the cost is well worth it.

 

[DanSavage]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

I've got a 10FP LE that measure's the same as your's. My barrel is 24" though. I shoot this load at a coal of 2.780 for a .020 jump. Varget is slightly compressed in Winchester brass at 44 grains, and I'm getting 2640 fps with it.

Regards,
Dan

 

[InTraining]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

I too noticed that on my Savage F Class (6BR), with factory loaded Lapua 105 Scenars the bullet was jumping only .008 to the rifling. I'm impressed with the Savage lineup.

DV

 

[oud272]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

Dan, thanks for the info.
I have a 10FCP-HS and when I load to OAL of 2.800" it gives me a 0.030" jump. I guess they are all a little different.

XTR, I'll definitely look into getting a reamer when I replace the F/TR barrel with a custom.

 

[mattt]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

I and 3 of my friends shoot savage 308 f/tr.All were the same 2.800.I put a new Bartlien barrel on my f/tr and it is around 2.800 also. With my factory barrel 45 grains varget worked well out to 1000 but killed the brass.I had primers falling out of the rem brass after firing.43.5 is a good load !

 

[Guest]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oud272</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I’ve just started loading for a Savage F/TR 308 and was surprised how short I needed to load the 175 SMK. This is my first F/TR and was curious to see if this was normal. Are the chambers “short” on the 308 F/TR?

Measured data. 175 SMK just touching the lands:
To ogive 2.216” (using Hornady gauge) C.O.L. approx. 2.800”
Based on this 175 FGM would just be touching the lands.


As soon as the weather breaks I’ll be evaluating the following loads:
175 SMK, to ogive 2.196” (0.020” jump) C.O.L. approx 2.780
43.7 - 45.2gr Varget (just compressing at 45.2gr)
Winchester Brass
Wolf primer
Am I in the right region to hit an accuracy node for the F/TR?

As soon as I get hold of some 155.5 fullbore I’ll try these but for the moment I am using 175 SMK as I have them.
</div></div>

The only problem we've ever had with our 308 175 load was with a customer who was shooting a Savage F/TR. Primers popping, sticky bolt, and occasional light primer strikes. He really wanted to shoot our ammo, but after exchanging it twice, for shorter OAL and different primers, both parties agreed that our product wasn't form him. Anything over 2.79 would be into the lands, and we couldn't stock a different type of primer for one customer.

But for a handloader, it is an awesome rifle, ready for competition right out of the box. I believe you are on the right track with you oal, and powder charge. I am also a big fan of Wolf primers, they fit very snugly and are the most consistent we've used.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[BamaAl]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

I have a Savage 11 Long Range Hunter in 308 and see the same thing. Anything over 2.79 and it doesn't like it at all.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

Weird, I have a Savage FTR and it absolutely loves FGMM 168's which I thought were the same OAL as the 175 stuff?
My gun would print horrible 4-5in groups with FGMM 175's at 100 but was less than a MOA with SW's stuff, no signs of pressure and definitely wasn't jamming the bullets when loading.

I have never loaded any 175's but for reference Berger 185BTLR measure 2.2465" to Ogive in my gun, can't remember OAL.

 

[oud272]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

Some results from initial testing.
Win Brass, Wolf primer, 175 SMK 0.020" jump, Varget. CED M2 chrono.

44.0gr 2742fps sticking bolt
43.7gr 2705fps no over pressure signs
168 FGM 2713fps

Will be trying some loads between 42.5 - 43.7

 

[GJgo]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

I have a Savage 10 FCP in 308 & it's the same story, 175 GMM touch the lands. Shoots them well, though. I roll my own so it's really of no consequence- but on the flip side the DBM can take ~3.0" so it's kind of a dichotomy.

 

[jhelmuth]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

Will be interested to follow the results here, as I have a Target Action Savage in .308 (CBI barrel though) and shooting SMK 168s (for now). I'm planning to get some 175s for 800+.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

The 50 thou freebore dimension of the "Palma" reamers is a known issue for 175 SMK factory ammo at 2.800"-2.810". It is my understanding that the F/TR and Palma 308 Savages are chambered with such a reamer.

The simple solution is a standard "308 Match" freebore dimension, usually in the .100" range for freebore.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

Unless they changed something... the Palma uses a WTC95 Palma reamer (or whatever the JGS equivalent is). The 12 F/TR and BR use an Obermeyer chamber - with a fuzz more freebore than the Palma.

If you get a chance, take a look at the throat/leade region with a borescope. The problem may be visibly apparent.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

Monte is on the know on Savage stuff, BUT... hard to say what went out the door there.

A chamber cast would do away with any speculation.

 

[Xcount]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

When I had a Quadlock built by Warner Tool for Palma I told Dan I wanted to shoot 175 SMk's mostly. Guess what chamber they used?? of course a Palma95. It's a damn fine chamber. SMk 175 measure 2.78 oal while touching the lands. 2156's measure 2.85" oal.
Savage did their homework and used known good build techniques.

 

[DGD6MM]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

I believe I'm going to have a 22" barrel chambered like this. I'm told that I can shoot out to the 175 SMK in it.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Savage F/TR Short chamber? 175 SMK C.O.L.

The issue isn't the bullet by itself - the issue is the factory loaded ammo with the bullet.

 

[Tempest 455]

Hate to dig up old thread but was doing a search and found this.

I'm finding same thing with my sons 12 F/TR but don't think it's the Accutrigger, at least in my case. He gets around 1 out 25 miss fires, using CCI 200 primers. When those rounds are tried in my Savage 10BA, they go bang 1st time. When I look at the primer dent between the two, the BA clearly hits the primer harder, deeper or both. Kind of subjective, but it even sounds louder when you dry fire it.

I wonder if they used a different spring in the BA vs. F/TR? I would like to resolve this because it's a PITA during a match when he has a good shot, target comes up and he gets a click, then has to wait to clear it. I may contact Savage and see what they say.

 

[Texas solo]

Your chamber measurements are not unique to the F/TR. My new #12BVSS has identical CBTO measurement of 2.216 with SMK175.
I'm just beginning load development with this bullet, set the CBTO to 2.210 for a .006 jump. We'll see what happens.