I am looking into a PMII 5-25x56 for my 6.5x47L that currently is wearing an NXS 5.5-22 NP R1. After reading up on the amount of elevation travel the SB has, I am not sure it is the way to go. I am shooting 130gr Berger's @ 2830. The way I understand, the SB has 56 MOA total elevation, which would give me approx. 43 MOA with a 20m rail. That only gives me 1300yds without holdover, per my rangecard. I shoot out to just under 1400 at least once a week. Would a 30Min rail solve the problem the easiest way or is the SB not quite the way to go versus the Nightforce with 100MOA of elevation? I prefer MOA/MOA as well. Is the SB worth it?
Rifle Scopes S&B pmII questions
- Thread starter nobody13
- Start date
Re: S&B pmII questions
If the NF works for you just fine...keep using it.
Or you could buy the S&B to put on another gun. Don't have another gun you say?....build another gun ;D
If the NF works for you just fine...keep using it.
Or you could buy the S&B to put on another gun. Don't have another gun you say?....build another gun ;D
Re: S&B pmII questions
The 5-25 PMII has over 100 MOA of total internal travel. All of mine are set up on 30 MOA rails and I'm getting a minimum 23 MRAD (79 MOA) of adjustment.
Not sure where you got your numbers from but be assured the scope is more than capable of giving you the adjustment range you need if set up properly.
The 5-25 PMII has over 100 MOA of total internal travel. All of mine are set up on 30 MOA rails and I'm getting a minimum 23 MRAD (79 MOA) of adjustment.
Not sure where you got your numbers from but be assured the scope is more than capable of giving you the adjustment range you need if set up properly.
Re: S&B pmII questions
I just got one in MILS. it had more travel listed than the same scope in MOA. I have no idea why this is
I just got one in MILS. it had more travel listed than the same scope in MOA. I have no idea why this is
Re: S&B pmII questions
A lot of the german to english translations are a bit funny for schmidt.
There is a single turn and double turn version of most of their scopes.
I find the best thing is to go to the .de site instead of .com and use google translate.
German is pretty easy to decipher though if you take your time, good luck, but i think you'll find your pleasantly surprised
Chris
A lot of the german to english translations are a bit funny for schmidt.
There is a single turn and double turn version of most of their scopes.
I find the best thing is to go to the .de site instead of .com and use google translate.
German is pretty easy to decipher though if you take your time, good luck, but i think you'll find your pleasantly surprised
Chris
Re: S&B pmII questions
Seems like a lot of confusion over the actual amount of travel - here's what S&B quote on the 5-25x56 tech data:
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/5-25x56-pm-iilp.html
Jerry, can you clarify where the quoted 65MOA / 26 MilRad comes from?
Assuming one is usable elevation via the turret, the other figure you quote is total internal adjustment?
Seems like a lot of confusion over the actual amount of travel - here's what S&B quote on the 5-25x56 tech data:
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/5-25x56-pm-iilp.html
Jerry, can you clarify where the quoted 65MOA / 26 MilRad comes from?
Assuming one is usable elevation via the turret, the other figure you quote is total internal adjustment?
Re: S&B pmII questions
The 26 MRAD's is from a scope set with the zero stop and 13 mil per turn double turn turrets. You have more adjustment in the scope, but when you set the double turn turrets you get 26 mils of usable travel. Does this help?
The 26 MRAD's is from a scope set with the zero stop and 13 mil per turn double turn turrets. You have more adjustment in the scope, but when you set the double turn turrets you get 26 mils of usable travel. Does this help?
Re: S&B pmII questions
double turns are 14 mils per rev
double turns are 14 mils per rev
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 5-25 PMII has over 100 MOA of total internal travel. All of mine are set up on 30 MOA rails and I'm getting a minimum 23 MRAD (79 MOA) of adjustment.
Not sure where you got your numbers from but be assured the scope is more than capable of giving you the adjustment range you need if set up properly. </div></div>
listen to this guy im purdy sure he knows what hes talkin about. hes not just guessin
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 5-25 PMII has over 100 MOA of total internal travel. All of mine are set up on 30 MOA rails and I'm getting a minimum 23 MRAD (79 MOA) of adjustment.
Not sure where you got your numbers from but be assured the scope is more than capable of giving you the adjustment range you need if set up properly. </div></div>
listen to this guy im purdy sure he knows what hes talkin about. hes not just guessin
Re: S&B pmII questions
I assure you they both have the same exact amount of <span style="font-weight: bold">internal trave</span>l. They are built exactly the same with identical internal components. The ONLY difference in the two are the gewindestück/trieb assemblies (turrets) which determine click values and of course different knobs to show it.
When a MRAD to MOA conversion is performed these are the only components that are changed, nothing internally is altered or switched.
Regardless what you may read you're just going to have to trust me on this one.
I am in Germany now and confirmed this today. If I didn't know it to be true I would have never hit the "submit" button.
I assure you they both have the same exact amount of <span style="font-weight: bold">internal trave</span>l. They are built exactly the same with identical internal components. The ONLY difference in the two are the gewindestück/trieb assemblies (turrets) which determine click values and of course different knobs to show it.
When a MRAD to MOA conversion is performed these are the only components that are changed, nothing internally is altered or switched.
Regardless what you may read you're just going to have to trust me on this one.
I am in Germany now and confirmed this today. If I didn't know it to be true I would have never hit the "submit" button.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobody13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking into a PMII 5-25x56 for my 6.5x47L that currently is wearing an NXS 5.5-22 NP R1. After reading up on the amount of elevation travel the SB has, I am not sure it is the way to go. I am shooting 130gr Berger's @ 2830. The way I understand, the SB has 56 MOA total elevation, which would give me approx. 43 MOA with a 20m rail. That only gives me 1300yds without holdover, per my rangecard. I shoot out to just under 1400 at least once a week. Would a 30Min rail solve the problem the easiest way or is the SB not quite the way to go versus the Nightforce with 100MOA of elevation? I prefer MOA/MOA as well. Is the SB worth it? </div></div>
Get the PMII. You won't regret it. I've ran those scopes on my work/comp rifles for the past 7 years. Worth every dime IMO.
On my GAP Crusader .260, with a 20 MOA rail and 180 meter zero, I get 25 mils of elevation travel with my 5-25X56 PMII.(130 VLD's@3000fps)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobody13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking into a PMII 5-25x56 for my 6.5x47L that currently is wearing an NXS 5.5-22 NP R1. After reading up on the amount of elevation travel the SB has, I am not sure it is the way to go. I am shooting 130gr Berger's @ 2830. The way I understand, the SB has 56 MOA total elevation, which would give me approx. 43 MOA with a 20m rail. That only gives me 1300yds without holdover, per my rangecard. I shoot out to just under 1400 at least once a week. Would a 30Min rail solve the problem the easiest way or is the SB not quite the way to go versus the Nightforce with 100MOA of elevation? I prefer MOA/MOA as well. Is the SB worth it? </div></div>
Get the PMII. You won't regret it. I've ran those scopes on my work/comp rifles for the past 7 years. Worth every dime IMO.
On my GAP Crusader .260, with a 20 MOA rail and 180 meter zero, I get 25 mils of elevation travel with my 5-25X56 PMII.(130 VLD's@3000fps)
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assure you they both have the same exact amount of <span style="font-weight: bold">internal trave</span>l. They are built exactly the same with identical internal components. The ONLY difference in the two are the gewindestück/trieb assemblies (turrets) which determine click values and of course different knobs to show it.
When a MRAD to MOA conversion is performed these are the only components that are changed, nothing internally is altered or switched.makes me
Regardless what you may read you're just going to have to trust me on this one.
I am in Germany now and confirmed this today. If I didn't know it to be true I would have never hit the "submit" button. </div></div>
This makes sense to me. However the info presented to me when buying mine said otherwise. I believe we were on schmidt's website at milehigh comparing specs. The site said mils had more elevation travel. It is the reason i switched to mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assure you they both have the same exact amount of <span style="font-weight: bold">internal trave</span>l. They are built exactly the same with identical internal components. The ONLY difference in the two are the gewindestück/trieb assemblies (turrets) which determine click values and of course different knobs to show it.
When a MRAD to MOA conversion is performed these are the only components that are changed, nothing internally is altered or switched.makes me
Regardless what you may read you're just going to have to trust me on this one.
I am in Germany now and confirmed this today. If I didn't know it to be true I would have never hit the "submit" button. </div></div>
This makes sense to me. However the info presented to me when buying mine said otherwise. I believe we were on schmidt's website at milehigh comparing specs. The site said mils had more elevation travel. It is the reason i switched to mils.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobody13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appreciate all the feedback. Will go with the SB when it is time. Should be great on my 6.5. </div></div>
Hold it please for a second
Here is a question for all S&B PM II owners.
Have you ever tried to see how the sight picture looks like when elevation knob is turned up or down close to extreme
(e.g 0-5 or 20-25 milrad) on high 15-25 zoom level. My first S&B PMII 5x25-56 front focal showed "moons" on the top or bottom edges (depending on elevation settings). At the setting 13-14 (middle of the elevation range) it was perfect. Same happened with wintage knobs with the smaller "moons" on the left or right.
I sent it back to the dealer and got the new one. Guess what. Got the same problem in different scope (different reticle and serial number)
I showed both scopes to my friend and he claims that he sees exactly what I see.
I have never seen a scope that fails to produce perfectly round sight picture in my life. I checked my and friend's NFs, Leupold's. All of them 2nd focal plane though. I will check Swarovski and Trijicons later. Unfortunately I do not have easy access to another front focal scope.
Could you please check your scopes for this effect. Do you see what I see? Please be honest to yourselves. Can you see sharp edges of the picture and it's perfectly round?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobody13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appreciate all the feedback. Will go with the SB when it is time. Should be great on my 6.5. </div></div>
Hold it please for a second
Here is a question for all S&B PM II owners.
Have you ever tried to see how the sight picture looks like when elevation knob is turned up or down close to extreme
(e.g 0-5 or 20-25 milrad) on high 15-25 zoom level. My first S&B PMII 5x25-56 front focal showed "moons" on the top or bottom edges (depending on elevation settings). At the setting 13-14 (middle of the elevation range) it was perfect. Same happened with wintage knobs with the smaller "moons" on the left or right.
I sent it back to the dealer and got the new one. Guess what. Got the same problem in different scope (different reticle and serial number)
I showed both scopes to my friend and he claims that he sees exactly what I see.
I have never seen a scope that fails to produce perfectly round sight picture in my life. I checked my and friend's NFs, Leupold's. All of them 2nd focal plane though. I will check Swarovski and Trijicons later. Unfortunately I do not have easy access to another front focal scope.
Could you please check your scopes for this effect. Do you see what I see? Please be honest to yourselves. Can you see sharp edges of the picture and it's perfectly round?
Re: S&B pmII questions
i will keep this in mind when im dialing 6 mils left wind then switching to dialing 6 mils rt wind from 1840 yds
i will keep this in mind when im dialing 6 mils left wind then switching to dialing 6 mils rt wind from 1840 yds
Re: S&B pmII questions
Are you saying SB isn't all that great or just that you have a question? What about the rest of the scopes attributes? I don't think I would be wasting my money but want to hear about any potential issues.
Are you saying SB isn't all that great or just that you have a question? What about the rest of the scopes attributes? I don't think I would be wasting my money but want to hear about any potential issues.
Re: S&B pmII questions
Most all scope will start to distort a little when on the extreme adjustment range. For instance, all the scopes I've used (S&B 5-25 and 4-16, Premier, Hensoldt, Nightforce NXS Benchrest and F1, Vortex PST and Razor, Barska, Simmons, Swarovski, Leupold MK4 and VX3, Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell) have all had this "issue". If the turret is adjusted all the way to one extreme then you usually get distortion and it appears to distort on the edges.
Most all scope will start to distort a little when on the extreme adjustment range. For instance, all the scopes I've used (S&B 5-25 and 4-16, Premier, Hensoldt, Nightforce NXS Benchrest and F1, Vortex PST and Razor, Barska, Simmons, Swarovski, Leupold MK4 and VX3, Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell) have all had this "issue". If the turret is adjusted all the way to one extreme then you usually get distortion and it appears to distort on the edges.
Re: S&B pmII questions
I am not saying that S&B is a bad scope. It looks rock solid, nice crisp clicks, wonderful glass. But I do not see how I can shoot from it. I always check the sight picture at the edges to keep it centered. This I believe, reduces chances of parallax and develops consistent eye relief. I find it hard to perform the trick on something out of shape. Furthermore, at first I confused the "moon" at the edge with scope shadow you can all see if eye relief is not correct. This drives me nuts. But it's me. One of my friends says that he does not think it's a big problem and it disappears close to midrange and at lower magnification level. In theory you can pick cant of your base to cover midrange elevation for the distances you are shooting most of the times. I would consider stop shooting if I have to dial wintage 4 or 6 but I am not a world class shooter. Some will still would like to take a shot even in these conditions.
I think one can find compromises and still make the thing shoot well. But, seriously, I do not have time or any desire to compensate for the scope which cost me around $4K.
I will talk to S&B folks and if the say it's normal for this design then, sorry folks, the scope goes back.
I am not saying that S&B is a bad scope. It looks rock solid, nice crisp clicks, wonderful glass. But I do not see how I can shoot from it. I always check the sight picture at the edges to keep it centered. This I believe, reduces chances of parallax and develops consistent eye relief. I find it hard to perform the trick on something out of shape. Furthermore, at first I confused the "moon" at the edge with scope shadow you can all see if eye relief is not correct. This drives me nuts. But it's me. One of my friends says that he does not think it's a big problem and it disappears close to midrange and at lower magnification level. In theory you can pick cant of your base to cover midrange elevation for the distances you are shooting most of the times. I would consider stop shooting if I have to dial wintage 4 or 6 but I am not a world class shooter. Some will still would like to take a shot even in these conditions.
I think one can find compromises and still make the thing shoot well. But, seriously, I do not have time or any desire to compensate for the scope which cost me around $4K.
I will talk to S&B folks and if the say it's normal for this design then, sorry folks, the scope goes back.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most all scope will start to distort a little when on the extreme adjustment range. For instance, all the scopes I've used (S&B 5-25 and 4-16, Premier, Hensoldt, Nightforce NXS Benchrest and F1, Vortex PST and Razor, Barska, Simmons, Swarovski, Leupold MK4 and VX3, Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell) have all had this "issue". If the turret is adjusted all the way to one extreme then you usually get distortion and it appears to distort on the edges. </div></div>
I drove myself nuts trying to see it on my NF 3.5x15x50. No result. The picture is perfectly round.
I will make a visit to my rich friend who has all kind of expensive junk and see what his stuff does. I will keep you posted.
On other side with S&B, while using 15x magnification I can see distortions up to 6 milrad of elevation. At 25x zoom I can see it up to 8 mrad. It appears again on opposite side at 20 mrad. So I have only 12 milrad of relatively undistorted image
No good folks, no good. If you take a look at your ballistics charts then you start making tough decisions. Where do I want the picture to start showing distortion? Close to minimal range (100, 200 meters) or at the far end of my chart (1100, 1200).
This all assumes that you can get your gunsmith to set the base slope right otherwise you are stuck with bad picture on one side of your chart or even worse - your full effective range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most all scope will start to distort a little when on the extreme adjustment range. For instance, all the scopes I've used (S&B 5-25 and 4-16, Premier, Hensoldt, Nightforce NXS Benchrest and F1, Vortex PST and Razor, Barska, Simmons, Swarovski, Leupold MK4 and VX3, Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell) have all had this "issue". If the turret is adjusted all the way to one extreme then you usually get distortion and it appears to distort on the edges. </div></div>
I drove myself nuts trying to see it on my NF 3.5x15x50. No result. The picture is perfectly round.
I will make a visit to my rich friend who has all kind of expensive junk and see what his stuff does. I will keep you posted.
On other side with S&B, while using 15x magnification I can see distortions up to 6 milrad of elevation. At 25x zoom I can see it up to 8 mrad. It appears again on opposite side at 20 mrad. So I have only 12 milrad of relatively undistorted image
No good folks, no good. If you take a look at your ballistics charts then you start making tough decisions. Where do I want the picture to start showing distortion? Close to minimal range (100, 200 meters) or at the far end of my chart (1100, 1200).
This all assumes that you can get your gunsmith to set the base slope right otherwise you are stuck with bad picture on one side of your chart or even worse - your full effective range
Re: S&B pmII questions
Well, how about the tunneling at the lower power settings? Was a little surprised to see a black ring close to the outside of the field of view at 5 to 5.5 power on my MPII 5-25 x 56.
And now there are cresent moon aberations at higher powers when dialing up for range and over for wind?
Just pulled the 5R out of the safe & checked. Yup, crank up the power and dial up the elevation and the bottom edge gets a little fuzzy, but just at the edge. Clear all around tword the middle of the elevation. With my eyes I find it is really difficult to see the cross hairs and edge of the field at the same time.
But by far the worst problem I have with S&B is the 6-12 week wait on the new one I just ordered.
OFG
Well, how about the tunneling at the lower power settings? Was a little surprised to see a black ring close to the outside of the field of view at 5 to 5.5 power on my MPII 5-25 x 56.
And now there are cresent moon aberations at higher powers when dialing up for range and over for wind?
Just pulled the 5R out of the safe & checked. Yup, crank up the power and dial up the elevation and the bottom edge gets a little fuzzy, but just at the edge. Clear all around tword the middle of the elevation. With my eyes I find it is really difficult to see the cross hairs and edge of the field at the same time.
But by far the worst problem I have with S&B is the 6-12 week wait on the new one I just ordered.
OFG
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, how about the tunneling at the lower power settings? Was a little surprised to see a black ring close to the outside of the field of view at 5 to 5.5 power on my MPII 5-25 x 56.
</div></div>
You mean the diameter of the picture comparing with 25x? Yes it is smaller and looks like you are in the tunnel. My NF does the same but the effect is less pronounced (I would say barely noticeable). The other annoying thing S&B does on 5x is shiny white circle around picture edges. I think I can live with it but it's another flaw in expensive device.
It goes back for sure. Now I need to decide on if it worth the time to try another one? I am not 100% convinced that all the problems I see are design flaws. It's just hard to believe. I have got 3 scopes from my dealer (2 S&Bs with same problems) and 1 Trijicon ACOG which had shifted illumination which was fixed but now the zero is jumping on me (I need to investigate this one). I may have the case of bad supplier
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, how about the tunneling at the lower power settings? Was a little surprised to see a black ring close to the outside of the field of view at 5 to 5.5 power on my MPII 5-25 x 56.
</div></div>
You mean the diameter of the picture comparing with 25x? Yes it is smaller and looks like you are in the tunnel. My NF does the same but the effect is less pronounced (I would say barely noticeable). The other annoying thing S&B does on 5x is shiny white circle around picture edges. I think I can live with it but it's another flaw in expensive device.
It goes back for sure. Now I need to decide on if it worth the time to try another one? I am not 100% convinced that all the problems I see are design flaws. It's just hard to believe. I have got 3 scopes from my dealer (2 S&Bs with same problems) and 1 Trijicon ACOG which had shifted illumination which was fixed but now the zero is jumping on me (I need to investigate this one). I may have the case of bad supplier
Re: S&B pmII questions
I run my S&Bs on 20 MOA bases and don't have any problems with any shadowing but as mentioned you will see it if you run almost any scope to the outward extremes.
The "shiney" white circle, as you call it, is not a design flaw but just the inside of the scope. Here is a video of the so called tunneling I made for someone here a while back going from 7x to 5x and you can see the edges around at 5x. I wouldn't call it shiney or distracting. It's not a problem for me as I rarely use the scope down there and when I do I am looking at the reticle.
I run my S&Bs on 20 MOA bases and don't have any problems with any shadowing but as mentioned you will see it if you run almost any scope to the outward extremes.
The "shiney" white circle, as you call it, is not a design flaw but just the inside of the scope. Here is a video of the so called tunneling I made for someone here a while back going from 7x to 5x and you can see the edges around at 5x. I wouldn't call it shiney or distracting. It's not a problem for me as I rarely use the scope down there and when I do I am looking at the reticle.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "shiney" white circle, as you call it, is not a design flaw but just the inside of the scope. Here is a video of the so called tunneling I made for someone here a while back going from 7x to 5x and you can see the edges around at 5x. I wouldn't call it shiney or distracting. It's not a problem for me as I rarely use the scope down there and when I do I am looking at the reticle.
And again, not all the scopes distort the picture. I have one that does not. At least I can not see it. With S&B I can tell where the elevation setting is with 10 milrad increments just by looking at it
</div></div>
As I noted I can accept some more tunneling and the fact that is more pronounced on S&B than on my 3.5x15 NF. I can write it off on bigger magnification. Some may find white little thing around the picture on 5x distracting but not me. I will try to film the distortions on the edges. It's quite tricky though. I have to make sure that video shows correct picture as yours
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "shiney" white circle, as you call it, is not a design flaw but just the inside of the scope. Here is a video of the so called tunneling I made for someone here a while back going from 7x to 5x and you can see the edges around at 5x. I wouldn't call it shiney or distracting. It's not a problem for me as I rarely use the scope down there and when I do I am looking at the reticle.
And again, not all the scopes distort the picture. I have one that does not. At least I can not see it. With S&B I can tell where the elevation setting is with 10 milrad increments just by looking at it
</div></div>
As I noted I can accept some more tunneling and the fact that is more pronounced on S&B than on my 3.5x15 NF. I can write it off on bigger magnification. Some may find white little thing around the picture on 5x distracting but not me. I will try to film the distortions on the edges. It's quite tricky though. I have to make sure that video shows correct picture as yours
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "shiney" white circle, as you call it, is not a design flaw but just the inside of the scope. Here is a video of the so called tunneling I made for someone here a while back going from 7x to 5x and you can see the edges around at 5x. I wouldn't call it shiney or distracting. It's not a problem for me as I rarely use the scope down there and when I do I am looking at the reticle.
And again, not all the scopes distort the picture. I have one that does not. At least I can not see it. With S&B I can tell where the elevation setting is with 10 milrad increments just by looking at it
</div></div>
As I noted I can accept some more tunneling and the fact that is more pronounced on S&B than on my 3.5x15 NF. I can write it off on bigger magnification. Some may find white little thing around the picture on 5x distracting but not me. I will try to film the distortions on the edges. It's quite tricky though. I have to make sure that video shows correct picture as yours </div></div>
I have three S&B's. I have noticed that if you have the eye relief set correctly there are no rings or halo's or half moons. I can see all those things IF I move my head around.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "shiney" white circle, as you call it, is not a design flaw but just the inside of the scope. Here is a video of the so called tunneling I made for someone here a while back going from 7x to 5x and you can see the edges around at 5x. I wouldn't call it shiney or distracting. It's not a problem for me as I rarely use the scope down there and when I do I am looking at the reticle.
And again, not all the scopes distort the picture. I have one that does not. At least I can not see it. With S&B I can tell where the elevation setting is with 10 milrad increments just by looking at it
</div></div>
As I noted I can accept some more tunneling and the fact that is more pronounced on S&B than on my 3.5x15 NF. I can write it off on bigger magnification. Some may find white little thing around the picture on 5x distracting but not me. I will try to film the distortions on the edges. It's quite tricky though. I have to make sure that video shows correct picture as yours </div></div>
I have three S&B's. I have noticed that if you have the eye relief set correctly there are no rings or halo's or half moons. I can see all those things IF I move my head around.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have three S&B's. I have noticed that if you have the eye relief set correctly there are no rings or halo's or half moons. I can see all those things IF I move my head around. </div></div>
This what I would like to see. Unfortunately my scope is not mounted yet. I am trying to look at it from all angles. All is good around 14 milrads of elevation. If I dial 6 or 7 up or down from it then I start "seeing" things :-(
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have three S&B's. I have noticed that if you have the eye relief set correctly there are no rings or halo's or half moons. I can see all those things IF I move my head around. </div></div>
This what I would like to see. Unfortunately my scope is not mounted yet. I am trying to look at it from all angles. All is good around 14 milrads of elevation. If I dial 6 or 7 up or down from it then I start "seeing" things :-(
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not being mounted is the problem I think. I dial about 7.2 mills for 800 yds on my GAP 10 with a 20 MOA mount and a 5-25 PM II and I see nothing but a clear target. </div></div>
If one would set up my scope properly I am sure that 800 would not be a problem. My scope has roughly 12 milrads in total around 14 mark with acceptable sight picture. If you mount the scope in a way that 100 zero corresponds to 8 milrad or so (the lowest distortion I can accept), then you still have 12 mils to 20 (distortion will appear from the other side). This will bring my 300 Win Mag approximately to the range of 1100 and 1200 meters without to much of distortion. Note, that my round is still supersonic at 1300 meters and one would be tempted to take a shot at that distance. This requires at least 15 milrads of elevation which now with S&B I have to shoot with distorted picture. This all assuming I can set the base exactly at 8. Any error will move my "good" range up or down. I do not think that I can mount the scope with 1 milrad precision (can you?). If I start to be practical I would move it further, say to 10 or even 12 in order to have good picture further down the range. On shorter ranges I would use lower magnification to cancel effect. This should work. My question is why I have to bother doing it for a scope with 4K price tag?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not being mounted is the problem I think. I dial about 7.2 mills for 800 yds on my GAP 10 with a 20 MOA mount and a 5-25 PM II and I see nothing but a clear target. </div></div>
If one would set up my scope properly I am sure that 800 would not be a problem. My scope has roughly 12 milrads in total around 14 mark with acceptable sight picture. If you mount the scope in a way that 100 zero corresponds to 8 milrad or so (the lowest distortion I can accept), then you still have 12 mils to 20 (distortion will appear from the other side). This will bring my 300 Win Mag approximately to the range of 1100 and 1200 meters without to much of distortion. Note, that my round is still supersonic at 1300 meters and one would be tempted to take a shot at that distance. This requires at least 15 milrads of elevation which now with S&B I have to shoot with distorted picture. This all assuming I can set the base exactly at 8. Any error will move my "good" range up or down. I do not think that I can mount the scope with 1 milrad precision (can you?). If I start to be practical I would move it further, say to 10 or even 12 in order to have good picture further down the range. On shorter ranges I would use lower magnification to cancel effect. This should work. My question is why I have to bother doing it for a scope with 4K price tag?
Re: S&B pmII questions
Those are strikes on a piece of AR500 at 1788 yards. Most of these hits were with my .338LM and a 5-25X56 PMII set at 20X with 17 mils of elevation dialed in. I had zero problems seeing impacts and individual strikes through the scope.
Those are strikes on a piece of AR500 at 1788 yards. Most of these hits were with my .338LM and a 5-25X56 PMII set at 20X with 17 mils of elevation dialed in. I had zero problems seeing impacts and individual strikes through the scope.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those are strikes on a piece of AR500 at 1788 yards. Most of these hits were with my .338LM and a 5-25X56 PMII set at 20X with 17 mils of elevation dialed in. I had zero problems seeing impacts and individual strikes through the scope. </div></div>
Very impressive.
I agree that in practical terms the problem I describe can be compensated by lower magnification. I also agree that with practice you can still make amazing shots like yours with sight picture which is not completely round as long as you keep it consistent. Maybe I am overreacting here because I have got so used to my NF which apparently does not have this problem.
You say you have 17 mils dialed. My scope is giving me good picture at 17. No problem.
Could you please come down to 2 or 4 mils and verify that at 20x magnification you still have round sight picture with sharp edges both top and bottom? My goal here is to have good picture at ALL reasonable ranges (100 - 1500m).
To make it more fun try to add 3-4 mils of wintage while keeping elevation around 2 or 4. See what happens.
By the way I got reply from S&B and Dr. Hesse confirms the effect:
"When you move the elevation to the upper or lower end of the available range, parts of the field of view are cut off by the main tube and the image gets oval"
Now I am waiting for his reply with regard of elevation range at which the effect is hardly noticeable according to their specs.
I will keep you posted
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those are strikes on a piece of AR500 at 1788 yards. Most of these hits were with my .338LM and a 5-25X56 PMII set at 20X with 17 mils of elevation dialed in. I had zero problems seeing impacts and individual strikes through the scope. </div></div>
Very impressive.
I agree that in practical terms the problem I describe can be compensated by lower magnification. I also agree that with practice you can still make amazing shots like yours with sight picture which is not completely round as long as you keep it consistent. Maybe I am overreacting here because I have got so used to my NF which apparently does not have this problem.
You say you have 17 mils dialed. My scope is giving me good picture at 17. No problem.
Could you please come down to 2 or 4 mils and verify that at 20x magnification you still have round sight picture with sharp edges both top and bottom? My goal here is to have good picture at ALL reasonable ranges (100 - 1500m).
To make it more fun try to add 3-4 mils of wintage while keeping elevation around 2 or 4. See what happens.
By the way I got reply from S&B and Dr. Hesse confirms the effect:
"When you move the elevation to the upper or lower end of the available range, parts of the field of view are cut off by the main tube and the image gets oval"
Now I am waiting for his reply with regard of elevation range at which the effect is hardly noticeable according to their specs.
I will keep you posted
Re: S&B pmII questions
Looks like we have to live with it or go somewhere else... Here is more detailed explanation from S&B
Topic:
The "shadowing" effect seen in the field of view of a 5-25x56 PMII.
Thank you for your inquiry into this question about the Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PMII. We hope the following explanation helps you better understand this optical issue.
The 5-25x56 PMII was developed to provide 2000 meter capability. In order to achieve this in a first focal plane scope the erector tube must be allowed to move up and down to both ends of its vertical adjustment range. In doing so you will see a "shadowing" affect within the field of view.
This affect is called Vignetting (vin'yed•ing) and is defined as follows:
(optics) Reduction in intensity of illumination near the edges of an optical instrument's field of view caused by obstruction of light rays by the edge of the aperture.
(In this case, when the erector tube is at the end of its adjustment range you will see a distortion caused by the inside edge of the scope tube as it is now visible in the field of view.)
To see this, adjust the power ring to 5x power and set the elevation turret to its lowest setting. Now when looking through the eye piece you will see a "black ring" surrounding the field of view that is off center. The "black ring" will appear to be sitting on the bottom of the tube with a gap at the top. You will also see a shiny elliptical area above the top half of the "black ring" that is a reflection of the surrounding's in the direction you are pointing the scope. This reflective surface is the interior wall of the scope tube. Now if you adjust the elevation turret to its highest setting this view will change. Now the "black ring" appears to be touching at the top and the reflective surface is now visible at the bottom of the field of view. When the power is increased the "black ring" becomes blurred but is still evident even at 25x in the field of view.
Two solutions to this issue would be to:
a) Shorten the vertical adjustment range to eliminate the vignetting which would then also reduce the amount of total elevation adjustment in the turret or
b) install a baffle or ring that eliminates the vignetting, but also cuts down the field of view.
Either solution reduces the effectiveness of the 5-25x56 PMII as a long range scope. So if we remove the vignetting we lose a key feature in this scope which is extremely important to the users of the 5-25x56PMII and allowing this vignetting affect is a compromise Schmidt & Bender is making in order to provide a better product.
Here is the image I found on this forum:
Looks like we have to live with it or go somewhere else... Here is more detailed explanation from S&B
Topic:
The "shadowing" effect seen in the field of view of a 5-25x56 PMII.
Thank you for your inquiry into this question about the Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PMII. We hope the following explanation helps you better understand this optical issue.
The 5-25x56 PMII was developed to provide 2000 meter capability. In order to achieve this in a first focal plane scope the erector tube must be allowed to move up and down to both ends of its vertical adjustment range. In doing so you will see a "shadowing" affect within the field of view.
This affect is called Vignetting (vin'yed•ing) and is defined as follows:
(optics) Reduction in intensity of illumination near the edges of an optical instrument's field of view caused by obstruction of light rays by the edge of the aperture.
(In this case, when the erector tube is at the end of its adjustment range you will see a distortion caused by the inside edge of the scope tube as it is now visible in the field of view.)
To see this, adjust the power ring to 5x power and set the elevation turret to its lowest setting. Now when looking through the eye piece you will see a "black ring" surrounding the field of view that is off center. The "black ring" will appear to be sitting on the bottom of the tube with a gap at the top. You will also see a shiny elliptical area above the top half of the "black ring" that is a reflection of the surrounding's in the direction you are pointing the scope. This reflective surface is the interior wall of the scope tube. Now if you adjust the elevation turret to its highest setting this view will change. Now the "black ring" appears to be touching at the top and the reflective surface is now visible at the bottom of the field of view. When the power is increased the "black ring" becomes blurred but is still evident even at 25x in the field of view.
Two solutions to this issue would be to:
a) Shorten the vertical adjustment range to eliminate the vignetting which would then also reduce the amount of total elevation adjustment in the turret or
b) install a baffle or ring that eliminates the vignetting, but also cuts down the field of view.
Either solution reduces the effectiveness of the 5-25x56 PMII as a long range scope. So if we remove the vignetting we lose a key feature in this scope which is extremely important to the users of the 5-25x56PMII and allowing this vignetting affect is a compromise Schmidt & Bender is making in order to provide a better product.
Here is the image I found on this forum:
Re: S&B pmII questions
Have you mounted the scope yet or still holding it? There are some shortcomings for having a 25X with 30+ mils of travel in it.
Have you mounted the scope yet or still holding it? There are some shortcomings for having a 25X with 30+ mils of travel in it.
Re: S&B pmII questions
CCCP you should just sell the scope as you obviously have problems with the way it functions. 9 of your 10 posts are here complaining about the scope. I am sure you will have no problems finding someone to buy it as they are very popular and used by many top shooters. But only sell here when you have the proper post count of course
CCCP you should just sell the scope as you obviously have problems with the way it functions. 9 of your 10 posts are here complaining about the scope. I am sure you will have no problems finding someone to buy it as they are very popular and used by many top shooters. But only sell here when you have the proper post count of course
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you mounted the scope yet or still holding it? There are some shortcomings for having a 25X with 30+ mils of travel in it. </div></div>
Still holding. Not sure what to do with it. Great peace of glass. A pity to send it back because of this bloody moon. Sorry Rob01, can not stand it.
Gentlemen, please check your scopes for elevation range on which you can not see the moon. I still hope that my scope somehow out of specs. If I had around 20 milrads to work with then I could figure out how to mount it efficiently
Looks like I hijacked the thread here. I created new thread to continue discussion for those who interested
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3421660#Post3421660
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you mounted the scope yet or still holding it? There are some shortcomings for having a 25X with 30+ mils of travel in it. </div></div>
Still holding. Not sure what to do with it. Great peace of glass. A pity to send it back because of this bloody moon. Sorry Rob01, can not stand it.
Gentlemen, please check your scopes for elevation range on which you can not see the moon. I still hope that my scope somehow out of specs. If I had around 20 milrads to work with then I could figure out how to mount it efficiently
Looks like I hijacked the thread here. I created new thread to continue discussion for those who interested
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3421660#Post3421660
Re: S&B pmII questions
So mount it. It's possible the issue is being increased by your eye not being aligned correctly.
The guys that make decisions and post reviews on scopes by holding them up and simply looking through them are doing everyone a disservice. Use it, then report back.
So mount it. It's possible the issue is being increased by your eye not being aligned correctly.
The guys that make decisions and post reviews on scopes by holding them up and simply looking through them are doing everyone a disservice. Use it, then report back.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So mount it. It's possible the issue is being increased by your eye not being aligned correctly.
The guys that make decisions and post reviews on scopes by holding them up and simply looking through them are doing everyone a disservice. Use it, then report back. </div></div>
Good point. I am not reviewing the scope though. I do not have the level expertise required for this task. Just looking for your help to make correct decision: keep it or send it back. Unfortunately if I mount it then I can not return it anymore. I will loose a lot of $$$ :-(
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So mount it. It's possible the issue is being increased by your eye not being aligned correctly.
The guys that make decisions and post reviews on scopes by holding them up and simply looking through them are doing everyone a disservice. Use it, then report back. </div></div>
Good point. I am not reviewing the scope though. I do not have the level expertise required for this task. Just looking for your help to make correct decision: keep it or send it back. Unfortunately if I mount it then I can not return it anymore. I will loose a lot of $$$ :-(
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So mount it. It's possible the issue is being increased by your eye not being aligned correctly.
The guys that make decisions and post reviews on scopes by holding them up and simply looking through them are doing everyone a disservice. Use it, then report back. </div></div>
Good point. I am not reviewing the scope though. I have no the level expertise required for this task. Just looking for you help to make correct decision: keep it or send it back </div></div>
In that power range it's the reigning king, the proven winner. Whether you keep it or send it back is up to you, but I think if you actually use it then you'll be happy with the scope.
The other options to explore are the new Kahles 6-24 and the Leupold 3.5-25 Mark 8 (or something like that), but both those are newer scopes and hard to come by.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So mount it. It's possible the issue is being increased by your eye not being aligned correctly.
The guys that make decisions and post reviews on scopes by holding them up and simply looking through them are doing everyone a disservice. Use it, then report back. </div></div>
Good point. I am not reviewing the scope though. I have no the level expertise required for this task. Just looking for you help to make correct decision: keep it or send it back </div></div>
In that power range it's the reigning king, the proven winner. Whether you keep it or send it back is up to you, but I think if you actually use it then you'll be happy with the scope.
The other options to explore are the new Kahles 6-24 and the Leupold 3.5-25 Mark 8 (or something like that), but both those are newer scopes and hard to come by.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In that power range it's the reigning king, the proven winner. Whether you keep it or send it back is up to you, but I think if you actually use it then you'll be happy with the scope.
The other options to explore are the new Kahles 6-24 and the Leupold 3.5-25 Mark 8 (or something like that), but both those are newer scopes and hard to come by. </div></div>
Could you all please drop few notes at following thread to keep this one clean from our current discussion. I think the author of this thread got the main idea on what to expect. I would like you to share your views on the issue and provide some advice on how to setup your scopes and adjust shooting techniques to compensate for it
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3421660#Post3421660
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In that power range it's the reigning king, the proven winner. Whether you keep it or send it back is up to you, but I think if you actually use it then you'll be happy with the scope.
The other options to explore are the new Kahles 6-24 and the Leupold 3.5-25 Mark 8 (or something like that), but both those are newer scopes and hard to come by. </div></div>
Could you all please drop few notes at following thread to keep this one clean from our current discussion. I think the author of this thread got the main idea on what to expect. I would like you to share your views on the issue and provide some advice on how to setup your scopes and adjust shooting techniques to compensate for it
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3421660#Post3421660
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobody13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It may look odd but if you are shooting through the middle of your scone using the adjustment why should it matter much? Isn't SB as good as it gets? </div></div>
Just too keep the thing in perspective. We are discussing a trade off here, not a major flaw. Some would consider it annoying, some unacceptable, some no problem at all. So far I am the only one who is bothered by it here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobody13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It may look odd but if you are shooting through the middle of your scone using the adjustment why should it matter much? Isn't SB as good as it gets? </div></div>
Just too keep the thing in perspective. We are discussing a trade off here, not a major flaw. Some would consider it annoying, some unacceptable, some no problem at all. So far I am the only one who is bothered by it here.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most all scope will start to distort a little when on the extreme adjustment range. For instance, all the scopes I've used (S&B 5-25 and 4-16, Premier, Hensoldt, Nightforce NXS Benchrest and F1, Vortex PST and Razor, Barska, Simmons, Swarovski, Leupold MK4 and VX3, Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell) have all had this "issue". If the turret is adjusted all the way to one extreme then you usually get distortion and it appears to distort on the edges. </div></div>
Which scope had the least distortion? What was maximum distortion free elevation range?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most all scope will start to distort a little when on the extreme adjustment range. For instance, all the scopes I've used (S&B 5-25 and 4-16, Premier, Hensoldt, Nightforce NXS Benchrest and F1, Vortex PST and Razor, Barska, Simmons, Swarovski, Leupold MK4 and VX3, Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell) have all had this "issue". If the turret is adjusted all the way to one extreme then you usually get distortion and it appears to distort on the edges. </div></div>
Which scope had the least distortion? What was maximum distortion free elevation range?
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not being mounted is the problem I think. I dial about 7.2 mills for 800 yds on my GAP 10 with a 20 MOA mount and a 5-25 PM II and I see nothing but a clear target. </div></div>
If one would set up my scope properly I am sure that 800 would not be a problem. My scope has roughly 12 milrads in total around 14 mark with acceptable sight picture. If you mount the scope in a way that 100 zero corresponds to 8 milrad or so (the lowest distortion I can accept), then you still have 12 mils to 20 (distortion will appear from the other side). This will bring my 300 Win Mag approximately to the range of 1100 and 1200 meters without to much of distortion. Note, that my round is still supersonic at 1300 meters and one would be tempted to take a shot at that distance. This requires at least 15 milrads of elevation which now with S&B I have to shoot with distorted picture. This all assuming I can set the base exactly at 8. Any error will move my "good" range up or down. I do not think that I can mount the scope with 1 milrad precision (can you?). If I start to be practical I would move it further, say to 10 or even 12 in order to have good picture further down the range. On shorter ranges I would use lower magnification to cancel effect. This should work. My question is why I have to bother doing it for a scope with 4K price tag? </div></div>
4 grand?.....Really? You should learn how to shop....
Critiquing a scope you've never fired a shot with is kind of bogus in my opinion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCP2K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not being mounted is the problem I think. I dial about 7.2 mills for 800 yds on my GAP 10 with a 20 MOA mount and a 5-25 PM II and I see nothing but a clear target. </div></div>
If one would set up my scope properly I am sure that 800 would not be a problem. My scope has roughly 12 milrads in total around 14 mark with acceptable sight picture. If you mount the scope in a way that 100 zero corresponds to 8 milrad or so (the lowest distortion I can accept), then you still have 12 mils to 20 (distortion will appear from the other side). This will bring my 300 Win Mag approximately to the range of 1100 and 1200 meters without to much of distortion. Note, that my round is still supersonic at 1300 meters and one would be tempted to take a shot at that distance. This requires at least 15 milrads of elevation which now with S&B I have to shoot with distorted picture. This all assuming I can set the base exactly at 8. Any error will move my "good" range up or down. I do not think that I can mount the scope with 1 milrad precision (can you?). If I start to be practical I would move it further, say to 10 or even 12 in order to have good picture further down the range. On shorter ranges I would use lower magnification to cancel effect. This should work. My question is why I have to bother doing it for a scope with 4K price tag? </div></div>
4 grand?.....Really? You should learn how to shop....
Critiquing a scope you've never fired a shot with is kind of bogus in my opinion.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
4 grand?.....Really? You should learn how to shop....
Critiquing a scope you've never fired a shot with is kind of bogus in my opinion. </div></div>
Canada, man. Not exactly 4K but very close to it.
I am not arguing about practical scope performance. Let's draw the line here. I am just expressing concern here. Keep in mind that I am no expert here and owned only 2 scopes in my life which do not have the effect. My expectation from S&B were very high and I just feel a little bit disappointed. I expected perfect device. Maybe I am being a little bit naive here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
4 grand?.....Really? You should learn how to shop....
Critiquing a scope you've never fired a shot with is kind of bogus in my opinion. </div></div>
Canada, man. Not exactly 4K but very close to it.
I am not arguing about practical scope performance. Let's draw the line here. I am just expressing concern here. Keep in mind that I am no expert here and owned only 2 scopes in my life which do not have the effect. My expectation from S&B were very high and I just feel a little bit disappointed. I expected perfect device. Maybe I am being a little bit naive here.
Re: S&B pmII questions
As was said in the other thread, mount the scope and zero it. Where it is at in the internal travel might not be where it is when you get the scope zeroed on the rifle.
You have a perfect device. It works perfectly for what it's intended to do. When you finally use it for that then you will see. I have been using S&B 5-25s for 6 years now and they are an excellent scope.
As was said in the other thread, mount the scope and zero it. Where it is at in the internal travel might not be where it is when you get the scope zeroed on the rifle.
You have a perfect device. It works perfectly for what it's intended to do. When you finally use it for that then you will see. I have been using S&B 5-25s for 6 years now and they are an excellent scope.
Re: S&B pmII questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You have a perfect device. It works perfectly for what it's intended to do. When you finally use it for that then you will see. I have been using S&B 5-25s for 6 years now and they are an excellent scope. </div></div>
Good point. While discussing the problem I forgot why I picked S&B on the first place and looked at the candidates again with intended use in mind. Here comes again: S&B fits my bill better
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You have a perfect device. It works perfectly for what it's intended to do. When you finally use it for that then you will see. I have been using S&B 5-25s for 6 years now and they are an excellent scope. </div></div>
Good point. While discussing the problem I forgot why I picked S&B on the first place and looked at the candidates again with intended use in mind. Here comes again: S&B fits my bill better
Re: S&B pmII questions
Nice feature of S&B that it is able to focus at very close distance 15 meters and less @25x magnification. You can dryfire with it in your basement like on the range!!!
My NF gives me good picture on 12 meters only @ 5-6x
Now I am thinking to put it on 300 Win Mag while waiting for .338 LM rifle
Nice feature of S&B that it is able to focus at very close distance 15 meters and less @25x magnification. You can dryfire with it in your basement like on the range!!!
My NF gives me good picture on 12 meters only @ 5-6x
Now I am thinking to put it on 300 Win Mag while waiting for .338 LM rifle
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