Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fuck 'em. They fired hundreds of rockets into Israel and wonder why Israel fires back..........DUH.
How long would it take us to get pissy if someone was sending rockets into our towns.
Israel should have never given up Gaza.
If the Palestine dudes don't like Israel bombing their ass, they should run Humas out of town.........but nope, they elected them to run the place.
Sorry I don't feel sorry for the dudes in Gaza, not one bit.
I'm pissed at Israel, they should never have let it get this far, it should have been stopped after the first rocket hit Israel.
I forgot who said it, but its true,
THERE WILL NEVER BE PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST UNTIL ARABS LEARN TO LOVE THEIR CHILDREN MORE THEN THEY HATE ISRAEL. </div></div>
And I suppose you would have been ok with being forced to move out of your home and land because a bunch of Europeans told you that it now belongs to someone else.
Where the situation is, it is intractable, but to suggest that Israel 'gave up' anything is laughable. Arafat had a chance for peace but he fucked it up, the Israelis do very little in return to allow Palestinians to achieve anything like 'normal'. The Palestinians in turn don't have much future to aim for for their children given the situation and in what I'm pretty sure is common to human nature (if the Irish ability to hold a grudge is anything to go by) they pass thier hate onto their kids.
Your summarization of Arabs as being all the same is pretty ignorant too. When the land grab was in full effect a large portion of the Palestinians moved away from the violence being directed towards them from Israeli settlers into Jordan. Jordan had the chance to actually show some Arab/Muslim brotherhood towards the refugees by allowing them to integrate into Jordanian society, but no, instead they forced the refugees to stay in camps. Your statement therefore ignores the fact that it's not the average Palestinian has tons of options and freely chooses to live in the shit pit that is Gaza/West Bank.
I would bet not a single person here with anything resembling a spine would be filled with anything less than the anger and frustration of a typical Palestinian who just wants to get on with life. That fact that an extremist group like Hamas is deemed the only political option is more symptomatic of hopelessness of the situation than the innate views of the people in Palestine.
Israel on the whole, on the other hand, is actually pretty 'centrist', the majority of the population don't want to crush the Palestinians or anyone else and like most people elsewhere, just want to get on with things. It's the extreme factions of the society (yes, Jews are able to be just as extreme, murderous and irrational as Muslims, Christians and others) that are able to leverage their positions into policy.
Now I'm sure the usual dolts will worm out of the woodwork with their labels and indignation, I don't care. What I've expressed above has been articulated by Arabs, Jews, Israelis and others who know more about it than anything gleaned from a press story and who actually live in the area or used to.
To a father who lost his child - regardless of his name, religion or nationality - I extend my condolences. </div></div>
Hope you two don't mind if I use you both as an example here, but your posts capture a lot of what is at the heart of the matter. The world tends to get down in the weeds over the basics of who shot first, who's kid was murdered today by which side, who rightfully *should* control the land, which settlements are *illegal* and how walling off large areas resembles the Jewish ghetto experience under the Nazis.
However, if one can allow themselves to zoom out for just a minute, and
examine today's events in a historical context, then one must ask if this isn't all by design in the first place.
Only when the combatants, as well as the rest of the world come to understand that this inextricable conflict was purposefully created; and has been used as leverage at the expense of these peoples' lives for decades can the principals (themselves) begin to work out a solution.
Good luck
