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Tragic Events in Palestine.

Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The situation in Palestine/Israel is far more complex than most who are bold enough to share <span style="color: #CC0000">their ignorant and ahistorical</span> opinions...

<span style="color: #CC0000">In the U.S. the word Jihad is associated with terrorism although it bears no such significance with those who choose it as a name.</span> Hopefully this clarification gives pause to those who conflate terrorism with the name Jihad and it's bearing any responsibility for the death of a child.</div></div>

^^^
And you call others "ignorant"?
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The situation in Palestine/Israel is far more complex than most who are bold enough to share <span style="color: #CC0000">their ignorant and ahistorical</span> opinions...

<span style="color: #CC0000">In the U.S. the word Jihad is associated with terrorism although it bears no such significance with those who choose it as a name.</span> Hopefully this clarification gives pause to those who conflate terrorism with the name Jihad and it's bearing any responsibility for the death of a child.</div></div>

^^^
And you call others "ignorant"? </div></div>

What's ignorant about what I wrote? Do you speak Arabic? What knowledge do you have that I don't regarding the overwhelming majority of Muslims that use the word Jihad in a manner that means nothing even close to what it means to most people in the U.S.?
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They create an environment where questioning is seen as unpatriotic and those who do are labeled and disregarded without a second thought.</div></div>

While those supporting the Philistines make death threats against someone for tweeting they are praying for Israel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A man lost his son and its sad. End of story.</div></div>

Not even close to the end. </div></div>

My statement and the phenomenon it refers to is not restricted to only the U.S. and Israel and I made a note of that in the original post. When people shut down the conversation (whether through threats, force, hegemony, etc...) and vilify opposing views to the point where they aren't even considered, the result is nothing short of tragic.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you speak Arabic? What knowledge do you have that I don't regarding the overwhelming majority of Muslims that use the word Jihad in a manner that means nothing even close to what it means to most people in the U.S.?</div></div>

I don't speak Arabic, Farsi or any other language from that part of the world so I called a friend who does and asked what does the term Jihad mean where you come from. His response was immediate: "Holy War!" I asked about the original meaning of the word and he agreed that was correct, but over the past few decades has evolved to a battle cry more so than a religious term.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

Many of Israel's leaders were labeled terrorists by Britain! Moshe Dayan, Yitzhak Rabin, Menachem Begin, Ariel Sharon......! Yet they want to talk about terrorism??? Btw, look up which country sold US secrets to China?
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

Meh. Netanyahu will get re-elected. Turkey raises its profile in the region. Assad has a much needed distraction. Hamas is showing its new paymasters - Islamic Jihad - that their money is being earned and Egypt is showing its own identity seperate from the US.

It's a 'W' for all the C-level folks. As usual, the accounts are settled by the fodder class. To those who believe in absolutes in this thread, you have my envy. It must be nice to not be troubled by details.

I care, ultimately, very little for the Palestinans or the Israelis. Fighting over land is as old as land itself. I care mostly about knowing the details and the history. That's what'll make the difference if ever I have to fight for my land.

History repeats not because we forget, but because we didnt pay attention the first time round.

Mo - thanks for the book recommendation. It's on order.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many of Israel's leaders were labeled terrorists by Britain! Moshe Dayan, Yitzhak Rabin, Menachem Begin, Ariel Sharon......! Yet they want to talk about terrorism??? Btw, look up which country sold US secrets to China? </div></div>




Alex, I'll take "Who is Bill Clinton?" For $1,000.00.





Good luck
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to name my children Adolf Hitler and tell them it's just a Germanic name, don't take it out of context. </div></div>

A more accurate comparison would be if a group of Jews decided to commit acts of terrorisms and claim they were Mitzvahs. Then to expect the entire Jewish community to stop using the word Mitzvah because it's meaning is now associated with terrorism. If you're a Jew, or are very familiar with Judaism, then you realize how absurd such an expectation would be.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

No matter what happens the war will go on for thousands of years beyond this so who gives a shit.

Who celebrated 9/11?

That's what side I'm on.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't speak Arabic, Farsi or any other language from that part of the world so I called a friend who does and asked what does the term Jihad mean where you come from. His response was immediate: "Holy War!" I asked about the original meaning of the word and he agreed that was correct, but over the past few decades has evolved to a battle cry more so than a religious term. </div></div>

Scholars disagree with your friend according to this terrorism expert's research. (http://globalbrief.ca/tomquiggin/)

"Jihad or Struggle (al-Qaeda's View)"
"Jihad is war, according to al-Qaeda's perspective. It is an obligatory act for all Muslims. This obligation is described as being "fardh ain". Permission from parents or other relatives is not required if the jihadist is of an age of understanding. The aim of jihad is to achieve Muslim dominance over Daru Islam. Armed jihad is the highest form of jihad and should be undertaken against all enemies of Islam. This includes infidels, polytheists, as well as those who support them."

"Jihad or Struggle (Islamic Scholars' View)"
"According to mainstram Islamic scholars, the concept of jihad refers to 'striving for excellence'. There are multiple goals for jihad. Among them are jihad for goodness (al khair), human development, prosperity, education, family, friendship and nation-building. There is also jihad against the human condition as well. This includes jihad against evil (asy-syarr), one's inner self, and intrusions upon one's laziness, stupidity, hatred and arrogance."

Quiggin, Tom. <span style="font-style: italic">Understanding al-Qaeda’s Ideology for Counter-Narrative Work</span>. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Perspectives on Terrorism: a journal of the Terrorism Research Initiative</span>. Vol 3, No 2. 2009
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

My up bringing in Dearborn MI tell me #1 is it, and #2 is just smoke and mirrors.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

Valere,
You're a muslim apologist.

So you can try and convince us otherwise however your semantics are falling on deaf ears. Perception is reality and the entire world knows Jihad in any context means a holy war.

If you walk around the streets and your workplace saying you're "gay" 99.9% of the people under 70 are going to think you're a homosexual despite the fact that gay means having or showing a merry, lively mood.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter what happens the war will go on for thousands of years beyond this so who gives a shit.

Who celebrated 9/11?

That's what side I'm on. </div></div>

Say again? You're on the side of those who danced in the streets celebrating when 9/11 happened?

Perhaps you missed a word or two in there.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

About 4 years ago when they had their last Gaza war, I saw an interview with a Hamas fighter (sic). It was just after a raid where they went into a house and killed a little Israeli girl.

The brave hamas guy admits, if given a choice of killing an Israeli child or an Israeli soldier, they'd pick the child every time.

That's the animals we're talking about. I don't care what Jihad means, they are animals, rabid animals.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

If Hamas hits a holy site in Israel with an errant missile all hell is gonna break loose. It is going to rain missiles
like snow flakes in Wyoming on the Gaza Strip.
The Gaza Strip is 140 miles of stupid. They are like a kid lighting matches in a gasoline field. It is just a matter of time until......
Hamas might just be the one who starts the third and final world war.
These are critical times in World history.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Hamas hits a holy site in Israel with an errant missile</div></div>

I was thinking about that. It would serve them right if they hit that dome of rock that sets on Solomon's Temple.

Wouldn't that be the "cat's meow".
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

Worse than that. If they hit a heavily visited New Testament Christian site I think it will finally awake a population that has been patiently dormant.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ringbearer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Hamas hits a holy site in Israel with an errant missile all hell is gonna break loose. It is going to rain missiles
like snow flakes in Wyoming on the Gaza Strip.
The Gaza Strip is 140 miles of stupid. They are like a kid lighting matches in a gasoline field. It is just a matter of time until......
Hamas might just be the one who starts the third and final world war.
These are critical times in World history. </div></div>

I wish they'd hurry up. This back and forth BS every few years is getting old, one of the two needs to man up and wipe out the other and be done with it already.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter what happens the war will go on for thousands of years beyond this so who gives a shit.

Who celebrated 9/11?

That's what side I'm on. </div></div>

Say again? You're on the side of those who danced in the streets celebrating when 9/11 happened?

Perhaps you missed a word or two in there. </div></div>

I wanted to ask the same question.
confused.gif
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolfrandal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter what happens the war will go on for thousands of years beyond this so who gives a shit.

Who celebrated 9/11?

That's what side I'm on. </div></div>

Say again? You're on the side of those who danced in the streets celebrating when 9/11 happened?

Perhaps you missed a word or two in there. </div></div>

I wanted to ask the same question.
confused.gif
</div></div>

Sorry fellas that meant to mean, "This showed me enough to pick which side im on." To me, there's nothing more to learn about Islam since 9/11. That being said I hope Israel pounds the shit out of them.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

I knew what you meant. Islam has revealed a great deal since that time, as a religion , as an enemy and as a world threat.

In saying that I am referring ONLY to the extremist factions and not Islamic believeing law abiding citizens in the US.
I think that it is getting more difficult to sort the two because of the extremist trying to morph in with the good folks and the good folks not speaking up against actions of the extremists for fear of a sharp retaliation-but that is a chat for another time.

It is my hope that Hamas (Gaza Strip)stands down in relation to Israel but I dont see that happening in this current arena.

There is gonna be a shit storm and the vortex will draw us in at some point.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ringbearer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Worse than that. If they hit a heavily visited New Testament Christian site I think it will finally awake a population that has been patiently dormant. </div></div>

Let's not go there. It's bad enough this is a topic based upon religious differences and riding a fine line of the site rules.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ringbearer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Worse than that. If they hit a heavily visited New Testament Christian site I think it will finally awake a population that has been patiently dormant. </div></div>

Let's not go there. It's bad enough this is a topic based upon religious differences and riding a fine line of the site rules. </div></div>

My point there is some targets carry a heavier response than others. So far there has been loss of life which in itself is very tragic. If they hit a revered holy site that will ping a direct nerve and have an immedicte world reaction.

Yes I recieved your transmission regarding forum rules and hope I have not crossed them.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ringbearer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I recieved your transmission regarding forum rules and hope I have not crossed them.
</div></div>

I never sent you a pm so...
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ringbearer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I recieved your transmission regarding forum rules and hope I have not crossed them.
</div></div>

I never sent you a pm so... </div></div>

The one in your response one post ago.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolfrandal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter what happens the war will go on for thousands of years beyond this so who gives a shit.

Who celebrated 9/11?

That's what side I'm on. </div></div>

Say again? You're on the side of those who danced in the streets celebrating when 9/11 happened?

Perhaps you missed a word or two in there. </div></div>

I wanted to ask the same question.
confused.gif
</div></div>

Sorry fellas that meant to mean, "This showed me enough to pick which side im on." To me, there's nothing more to learn about Islam since 9/11. That being said I hope Israel pounds the shit out of them. </div></div>

No worries, I figured as much, I know I've sent messages with the complete opposite meaning than I intended purely from not including a not or wont or similar word. girlfriends get pissed when that happens lol.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Valere,
You're a muslim apologist.

So you can try and convince us otherwise however your semantics are falling on deaf ears. Perception is reality and the entire world knows Jihad in any context means a holy war.

If you walk around the streets and your workplace saying you're "gay" 99.9% of the people under 70 are going to think you're a homosexual despite the fact that gay means having or showing a merry, lively mood. </div></div>

Perceptions is most certainly not reality. It's merely an interpretation of it. A cursory reading of Plato's Cave illustrates this.

Plenty of the uneducated and insidious view gun owners are bad people with bad tools to execute bad intentions. Some are, many are not but frequently no distinction is made by those with the wrong perception.

People who kill non-combatants as a matter of policy are terrorists. I'd be interested to see if you'd hoist the Union Jack and proclaim death to the terrorist dogs in Northern Ireland...
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scholars disagree with your friend according to this terrorism expert's research.</div></div>

There is the world of academia and the world everyone else lives in. You're stuck on Webster's definition and and I'm talking about the folks who learn it outside the classroom. In a math class 1 X 0 = 0 and on paper that is correct, but in the real world it equals one.

My fried was born and reared in Iraq, lost family in the Iran/Iraq war and didn't spend a lot of time studying word origins and syntax.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

I think it boils down to a lesser grand equation and that would be: If you blow me up I blow you up and dont give a damn how it looks in the paper or what tomorrow brings.
I think we are reduced to that SOP at the moment when it comes to Gaza.

The biggest or longest or most booms win.

For now, its all about the boom and placement thereof.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: klf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if them fuckers would just approve of bacon they could be the 51st state.</div></div>There's a great place for bacon between Rehovot and Tel Aviv. The only problem with the location is that it's within missile range of Gaza. No worries, though, some people I know are busy sorting that out as we speak. </div></div>

I've had several bacon cheeseburgers at Moses's in Herzlia, they have good onion rings too. Now Mexican food in Israel... now that's a stretch (it _looks_ like a burrito but has the middle eastern spice pallet.. ugh)


I emailed my friend in Tel Aviv asking him how things were on the ground, he said:

"All well here. Well not very pleasant but under control."

I'm really interested to see what "under control" means in the coming days/weeks.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolfrandal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypno</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter what happens the war will go on for thousands of years beyond this so who gives a shit.

Who celebrated 9/11?

That's what side I'm on. </div></div>

Say again? You're on the side of those who danced in the streets celebrating when 9/11 happened?

Perhaps you missed a word or two in there. </div></div>

I wanted to ask the same question.
confused.gif
</div></div>

Sorry fellas that meant to mean, "This showed me enough to pick which side im on." To me, there's nothing more to learn about Islam since 9/11. That being said I hope Israel pounds the shit out of them. </div></div>


No worries too. Just had the same thought.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'd be interested to see if you'd hoist the Union Jack and proclaim death to the terrorist dogs in Northern Ireland... </div></div>
Perhaps if they were of a different religious belief!
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

I'm going to heed a warning given earlier about this thread pushing the limits of the rules and conclude my participation before getting banned since I find the Hide to be a very valuable resource to learn about shooting, which is the reason we are all here in the first place.

For those who participate in the conflation of distinctly different groups, dehumanize them and wish for their death, I hope you pause to consider that the people who commit acts of terrorism must go through the same process. Hate is a powerful and tragic thing.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The situation in Palestine/Israel is far more complex than most who are bold enough to share <span style="color: #CC0000">their ignorant and ahistorical</span> opinions...

<span style="color: #CC0000">In the U.S. the word Jihad is associated with terrorism although it bears no such significance with those who choose it as a name.</span> Hopefully this clarification gives pause to those who conflate terrorism with the name Jihad and it's bearing any responsibility for the death of a child.</div></div>

^^^
And you call others "ignorant"? </div></div>

What's ignorant about what I wrote? Do you speak Arabic? What knowledge do you have that I don't regarding the overwhelming majority of Muslims that use the word Jihad in a manner that means nothing even close to what it means to most people in the U.S.? </div></div>

Ignorance is stating as fact something that you can't possibly know the answer to. If baby Jihad's daddy (let's call him Abu Jihad) is an Islamist, you're likely wrong about the origin of his name. Considering the neighborhood, I certainly wouldn't be so quick to rule out the possibility.

With apologies to Mike, I have a feeling you're no Dhmmi. You might just be the real McCoy.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to heed a warning given earlier about this thread pushing the limits of the rules and conclude my participation before getting banned since I find the Hide to be a very valuable resource to learn about shooting, which is the reason we are all here in the first place.

For those who participate in the conflation of distinctly different groups, dehumanize them and wish for their death, I hope you pause to consider that the people who commit acts of terrorism must go through the same process. Hate is a powerful and tragic thing. </div></div>

Retreat is often the best strategy.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Valere,
You're a muslim apologist.

So you can try and convince us otherwise however your semantics are falling on deaf ears. Perception is reality and the entire world knows Jihad in any context means a holy war.

If you walk around the streets and your workplace saying you're "gay" 99.9% of the people under 70 are going to think you're a homosexual despite the fact that gay means having or showing a merry, lively mood. </div></div>

Perceptions is most certainly not reality. It's merely an interpretation of it. A cursory reading of Plato's Cave illustrates this.

Plenty of the uneducated and insidious view gun owners are bad people with bad tools to execute bad intentions. Some are, many are not but frequently no distinction is made by those with the wrong perception.

People who kill non-combatants as a matter of policy are terrorists. I'd be interested to see if you'd hoist the Union Jack and proclaim death to the terrorist dogs in Northern Ireland...</div></div>

That's not quite what the Plato's Allegory of the Cave explains. But I'm not going to argue the semantics of the philosophy of Plato. The point, whether you choose to recognize it or not, is that Jihad is perceived as a holy war against non-muslims. This is a fact.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People who kill non-combatants as a matter of policy are terrorists. I'd be interested to see if you'd hoist the Union Jack and proclaim death to the terrorist dogs in Northern Ireland...</div></div>

Yes on both counts.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

I still wonder if Iran had anything to do with getting Hamas to get busy starting a new round of fighting with Israel, to keep them from Bombing Iran for a bit?
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

I need to get me a job on the west bank selling popcorn or doing something CONstructive with my time. I wonder if there are any ranges on the west bank, you know, so I wouldn't get bored?
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Valere,
You're a muslim apologist.

So you can try and convince us otherwise however your semantics are falling on deaf ears. Perception is reality and the entire world knows Jihad in any context means a holy war.

If you walk around the streets and your workplace saying you're "gay" 99.9% of the people under 70 are going to think you're a homosexual despite the fact that gay means having or showing a merry, lively mood. </div></div>

Perceptions is most certainly not reality. It's merely an interpretation of it. A cursory reading of Plato's Cave illustrates this.

Plenty of the uneducated and insidious view gun owners are bad people with bad tools to execute bad intentions. Some are, many are not but frequently no distinction is made by those with the wrong perception.

People who kill non-combatants as a matter of policy are terrorists. I'd be interested to see if you'd hoist the Union Jack and proclaim death to the terrorist dogs in Northern Ireland...</div></div>

That's not quite what the Plato's Allegory of the Cave explains. But I'm not going to argue the semantics of the philosophy of Plato. The point, whether you choose to recognize it or not, is that Jihad is perceived as a holy war against non-muslims. This is a fact.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People who kill non-combatants as a matter of policy are terrorists. I'd be interested to see if you'd hoist the Union Jack and proclaim death to the terrorist dogs in Northern Ireland...</div></div>

Yes on both counts. </div></div>

Mike - firstly, the whole world does not perceive jihad as a 'hot' war simply because you think it does. Secondly, there are literally over a billion Muslims who have never committed an act of war by any standards so again, your irrational proclamations are unfounded by any empirical evidence. You may hate muslims, or Palestinians, and by me that's fine, I can't stand Jesuits, Calvinists and I particularly HATE Catholic bishops and cardinals who routinely and for decades knowingly protected child rapists but I'd be foolish to say ALL catholics are rapists and molesters.

On a completely seperate note, I find it curious we're all hot to debate the injustice or otherwise of the deaths of a comparatively few people when just south of our border there are about a dozen or so people mostly innocent people getting killed in the most horrendous of ways on a daily basis. Makes me wonder... do we care more about the loss of lives or who's dying?

BTW - you missed what I was referring to in regards to Plato's Cave. The central point is people who have never seen anything other than the shadows.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cmonroe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if there are any ranges on the west bank,</div></div>There are quite a few.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

Mike - firstly, the whole world does not perceive jihad as a 'hot' war simply because you think it does.

<span style="font-weight: bold">EH, now here is where you missed my point. You cannot tell me that if I went up to any muslim here or abroad and asked them the definition of jihad they're going to omit that it means a holy war. Will they define it in other ways as well such as "Struggle, internal strife, etc." absolutely. But to presume they do not know it also means a holy war is naive. After all, it's one of the five pillars of Islam so I am sure they are very aware of <span style="font-style: italic">every</span> definition. </span>

Secondly, there are literally over a billion Muslims who have never committed an act of war by any standards so again, your irrational proclamations are unfounded by any empirical evidence.

<span style="font-weight: bold">What empirical evidence do you require? Would you like me to interview a billion muslims? My response can be found above and doesn't detract from the fact. So my "irrational proclamations" are factual based on the definition of the word "jihad".</span>

You may hate muslims, or Palestinians, and by me that's fine, I can't stand Jesuits, Calvinists and I particularly HATE Catholic bishops and cardinals who routinely and for decades knowingly protected child rapists but I'd be foolish to say ALL catholics are rapists and molesters.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let me be specific so to remove any doubt in your mind. I do not "hate" muslims, palestinians, or any other religious or ethnic group. I hate terrorists. If a terrorist happens to be Saudi, Palestinian, Qatari, or even Filipino or Chechnyan. It's not who they are that I hate. It's what they do. Oh, and BTW let me be clear that includes IRA terrorists as well lest you believe I am excluding based on religion alone.

Second, I find it interesting that in your proclamation of distaste for Jesuits and Calvanists as a blanket statement yet you want to criticize me? </span>

On a completely seperate note, I find it curious we're all hot to debate the injustice or otherwise of the deaths of a comparatively few people when just south of our border there are about a dozen or so people mostly innocent people getting killed in the most horrendous of ways on a daily basis. Makes me wonder... do we care more about the loss of lives or who's dying?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Do you expect us to address every injustice in one thread? I would be more than happy to discuss the travesty that is south of our border if you would like to start a separate thread about it. The context of this thread was the "tragic events in Palestine" not "tragic events in Palestine and Mexico". So let's keep things in context before you go off and make assumptions. </span>

BTW - you missed what I was referring to in regards to Plato's Cave. The central point is people who have never seen anything other than the shadows.

<span style="font-weight: bold">No, I got that. But the point that I was making, that can also be deduced from Plato's allegory is that regardless of true reality, people will believe only what they know until they are convinced otherwise. Do you remember the movie "The Village"?</span>
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

With the vast difference in military capabilities, I am disappointed that the Pal death toll is so low.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the vast difference in military capabilities, I am disappointed that the Pal death toll is so low. </div></div>No military, other than ours, takes as many precautions to ensure that civilian casualties are minimized. Considering that the terrorist group(s) purposely shelter themselves and their weapons behind civilians I see remarkable restraint, and excellent precision, by the Israeli military.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the vast difference in military capabilities, I am disappointed that the Pal death toll is so low. </div></div>

Your psychotic enthusiasm for a higher body count is noted.
 
Re: Tragic Events in Palestine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still wonder if Iran had anything to do with getting Hamas to get busy starting a new round of fighting with Israel, to keep them from Bombing Iran for a bit? </div></div>

Seems to be the prevailing thought among many people I read and respect. Also takes the scrutiny off of Iran's other proxies-Syria and Hezbollah.

And then there's Benghazi...
 
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