Why is it?

[Jon Lester]

That on a site where we ask questions about which investment ARs are the best to buy before the administration policies drive prices up,Or which Hi cap mags are best to scarf by the masses before the next ban, turn and hammer folks that jumped on the Dicks 700 deal. Heck I thought this site was chocked full of capitalistic free market types. We say nothing when used rifles from the top makers often sell at near to, or actually more than original price, and buyers feel they got a deal by avoiding a lengthy wait. Everyone here saw the Eagle products, that Natchez had marked at significantly reduced prices, sell on hear at near MSR prices in the equipment section weeks after the sale. What about those FN/WIN70s actions and Barreled actions that were sold at bargain deals from a major warehouse not long ago. Folks bought them in masses and when they hit this board for profit, not a peep. How many here wish they had a gross of Eagle stock packs? And what about the McMillan Return Stocks, that was the largest example of firearms capitalism in history? Yet it went by hardly noticed.
And now we have decided to beat the crap out of a couple guys who have chose to do the same thing, where is the difference? Dealer/Not a dealer, who really cares? There are several private members here who have sold a lot more firearms in a years time, 4-5 at a time in single listings. What does it matter to the average Hide member? Nothing! Don't like a guys add? Why not just move along and mind our own business? Thats the part I just dont get. If these guys are selling defective crap or children into the sex industry, jump in with both feet, but a guy that got a deal and is making a buck...Roll on. My first thought when seeing thee guys ads was "Dude you wont sell that here, everybody and their uncle was told about this deal, flea market for you dude" and that was the end of it for me.
Maybe I am just different.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Why is it?

Who fucking cares??

Gotta love the hall moniters!!

 

[hyoslvr]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Don't like a guys add? Why not just move along and mind our own business? Thats the part I just dont get. </div></div>

I don't get it either. I saw them attacking last night and was just shaking my head. You don't like it, don't buy it. And as for the DEALER/NO DEALER shit, let the mods sort that out.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Why is it?

Mostly because it was a classless act.

They had a once a year sale with limited quantities and the jackass bought most of what they had.

So now, there are at least 5 folks who had a chance to purchase a good starter rifle at a great price but weren't able to. It may have been the only way they could have afforded to get a good rifle.

Can you imagine how you would have felt if you were waiting in line and the jackass in front of you bought all the rifles on sale in the store?

Dick's should have limited it to one per customer.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Why is it?

Sour grapes.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mostly because it was a classless act.

They had a once a year sale with limited quantities and the jackass bought most of what they had.

So now, there are at least 5 folks who had a chance to purchase a good starter rifle at a great price but weren't able to. It may have been the only way they could have afforded to get a good rifle.

Can you imagine how you would have felt if you were waiting in line and the jackass in front of you bought all the rifles on sale in the store?

Dick's should have limited it to one per customer.</div></div>

Did we hold everyone to that same standard when McMillan released the return stocks? A certain big name builder who I consider a VERY Personnel friend bought a load of them, even the A3s and sold them as builds only and we were ecstatic on the board.
Some of those stocks were for sale here at double price before the owners even received them. And folks gladly scarfed them up,even creating a secondary SN# thread to match Bottom Metals or give a guy a chance to find his issued stock.

If the ban comes, are we prepared to talk cap to the guy that lands 2 cases of p mags? I saw a guy happily pay $120.00 for 2 glock mags here once and instead of people yelling Cheat, there were about 10 seconds called.
I have no Dog in it either way and maybe this was just a different place back then.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Why is it?

For all the people who are trying to defend the actions of "Dastardly Dick," listen up closely to what has already been said about the nature of firearms and their regulation. No, we don't tend to believe that BATFE should have as much leeway as they enjoy in enforcement, and some of us even think that they are an unconstitutionally improvised branch of the government whose mission is directly contrary to the intentions of our founding fathers. Nonetheless, things are as they are, and I really don't think any of us want to see transaction after transaction in the PX scrutinized and having to endure polite social exchanges on the stoop with representatives from the local office making sure that we have what we have or that we're not making bank through an illegal cottage industry. Note, I used the word <span style="font-style: italic">illegal,</span> because that's what it is, and there's no getting around it. Standing to gross $1,200 in a given month from selling firearms <span style="font-style: italic">that were expressly purchased for resale</span> puts him outside the law, and until the law is pretty much a perfect expression of tyranny, I'd like to try and stay within it, as no doubt would the many people here who are charged with enforcing various laws. It was crass, it was illegal, it had jack squat to do with as-of-yet unregulated but related gear, and I don't like what it could have meant or could still very much mean for the PX.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Why is it?

If I pick up a custom build off a prize table exactly like the one I won the match with on a Sunday eve, just because it is the most valuable prize, and sell it here Monday morning for 3K am I in the same boat?
I had no intention of keeping it when I picked it up, and after all my expenses to get it, I will exceed $1,200 easily and depending on the state, I could keep it less than 1 day.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I pick up a custom build off a prize table exactly like the one I won the match with on a Sunday eve, just because it is the most valuable prize, and sell it here Monday morning for 3K am I in the same boat?
I had no intention of keeping it when I picked it up, and after all my expenses to get it, I will exceed $1,200 easily and depending on the sate, I could keep it less than 1 day. </div></div>

hypothetical: if I do something completely different and unrelated, is it the same???

Are you purchasing multiple regulated items with the full intent of resale and distribution at a selling cost higher then the original purchased price without a FFL? No your not.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I pick up a custom build off a prize table exactly like the one I won the match with on a Sunday eve, just because it is the most valuable prize, and sell it here Monday morning for 3K am I in the same boat?
I had no intention of keeping it when I picked it up, and after all my expenses to get it, I will exceed $1,200 easily and depending on the state, I could keep it less than 1 day. </div></div>

The fact that you actually do get to take home custom builds from the prize table makes me hate you lol...

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I pick up a custom build off a prize table exactly like the one I won the match with on a Sunday eve, just because it is the most valuable prize, and sell it here Monday morning for 3K am I in the same boat?
I had no intention of keeping it when I picked it up, and after all my expenses to get it, I will exceed $1,200 easily and depending on the state, I could keep it less than 1 day. </div></div>

The fact that you actually do get to take home custom builds from the prize table makes me hate you lol...

</div></div>

I have been a Really lucky guy for sure, And while I have gifted several prizes including a Patriot Arms 308 to my son,and other things like bases, rings, and targets to Mil/ leo competitors as well as Youth competitors, I have never sold something that a vendor was gracious enough to give me through a prize table.

EDIT: I did sell my half of a USO scope that my partner and I won in the Mammoth Team match. But I sold it to the Co Winner so we really kept it. (Thanks again for the support John)

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I pick up a custom build off a prize table exactly like the one I won the match with on a Sunday eve, just because it is the most valuable prize, and sell it here Monday morning for 3K am I in the same boat?
I had no intention of keeping it when I picked it up, and after all my expenses to get it, I will exceed $1,200 easily and depending on the state, I could keep it less than 1 day. </div></div>

The fact that you actually do get to take home custom builds from the prize table makes me hate you lol...

</div></div>

I have been a Really lucky guy for sure, And while I have gifted several prizes including a Patriot Arms 308 to my son,and other things like bases, rings, and targets to Mil/ leo competitors as well as Youth competitors, I have never sold something that a vendor was gracious enough to give me through a prize table.

EDIT: I did sell my half of a USO scope that my partner and I won in the Mammoth Team match. But I sold it to the Co Winner so we really kept it. (Thanks again for the support John) </div></div>

Jon... I'm just fucking with you man... It's called jealousy. That's what happens when you're always the last guy to pick off the prize table

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Why is it?

I guess My main issue is. Why is it not a Moderator issue? Why all the dog piling. It really is not that cut and dry so why not leave it to Frank to decide what happens on his site?

This would have never went down in this manner when the site was young and Shooting accurately while treating others professionally was the course of the day.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I pick up a custom build off a prize table exactly like the one I won the match with on a Sunday eve, just because it is the most valuable prize, and sell it here Monday morning for 3K am I in the same boat?
I had no intention of keeping it when I picked it up, and after all my expenses to get it, I will exceed $1,200 easily and depending on the state, I could keep it less than 1 day. </div></div>

The fact that you actually do get to take home custom builds from the prize table makes me hate you lol...

</div></div>

I have been a Really lucky guy for sure, And while I have gifted several prizes including a Patriot Arms 308 to my son,and other things like bases, rings, and targets to Mil/ leo competitors as well as Youth competitors, I have never sold something that a vendor was gracious enough to give me through a prize table.

EDIT: I did sell my half of a USO scope that my partner and I won in the Mammoth Team match. But I sold it to the Co Winner so we really kept it. (Thanks again for the support John) </div></div>

Jon... I'm just fucking with you man... It's called jealousy. That's what happens when you're always the last guy to pick off the prize table

</div></div>


I didn't take it any other way. All is well.
Just watched this all unfold and was a little disappointed where our little place has gone through the years.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Why is it?

Jon, if your <span style="font-weight: bold">livelihood </span>depends on the resale of firearms you need to have an ffl. Take another look at the way the guy handled the whole situation, carrying his water is not worth your while. Nobody GARA if you make a few bucks on re-sale, that was never the issue. He flaunted the rifles and was mercenary every step of the way. If you were waiting in line for one of these rifles, I believe you'd have a different take on it. I was in Dicks Wednesday evening and could have bought the 3 ADLs and 2 Troy Carbines they had at doorbuster pricing. That store would have had ZERO rifles for the poor bastards who sat in line at midnight waiting. I passed, and am glad I did. Karma is a bitch!

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Why is it?

I'm with the op on this.
Let Frank and the mods decide what to do. Four days of whining, locked threads, who really gives a shit. The shout box was the worst of the sniveling.
Yes, we all like the px, this garbage isn't going to have any effect on it. And as far as not getting a gun because of tp, first come, first serve, get up earlier next year.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Why is it?

I am not actually sure he was right or wrong really, it's the guy who runs th place to make the call. My issue is why it didn't go to PM and get Handled off line. 2/3 of the people that found out about it was from continually bumping the thread to the top through bickering,thus helping the problem that was trying to be cured. It went viral because of all the attention 8-10 folks gave, not the action of the 1 guys post. Any Mod or Frank could have been notified and got it handled the way they wanted it handled, and that would have been it.
But I still won't say what he did was wrong, everyone wanting a Black Friday product had the option to beat the guy that bought the very last one to the store . Kinda like the Give me some of your stuff because you are successful and I am not line of thinking that seems to be popular in these times.
Why not beat up the Manufactures/Distributors who allowed WM to sell goods cheaper than Mom and Pop, whose livelihood depends on firearms sales, could buy them wholesale? That has never came up at all.

 

[hyoslvr]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm with the op on this.
Let Frank and the mods decide what to do. Four days of whining, locked threads, who really gives a shit. The shout box was the worst of the sniveling.
Yes, we all like the px, this garbage isn't going to have any effect on it. And as far as not getting a gun because of tp, first come, first serve, get up earlier next year. </div></div>+1

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why is it?

Jon,

It's very simple what he did was illegal. Just like Veer said, you cannot buy "firearms" like that for the sole purpose of reselling them for profit without having an FFL.

If he bought them, and trickled them out over time, he could have slipped through the cracks, but he didn't, he showed them all off and thus demonstrated bad judgement.

People don't seem to get it, there is a line, and websites like this with classified ads get a certain amount of attention. Every agency you can think of patrols this site, some with the intention of grabbing low hanging fruit, you guys who post illegal stuff. A great example is military tech, we have an ICE agent who just loves to ask for IPs and contact info so they can chase down guys selling stuff they shouldn't be. I can tell you the ATF also has accounts on here.

So would you rather I, or we as a community should look the other way and risk it all, or would you rather we police ourselves and catch it early?

By shutting down the thread and banning him, just for a bit, we show we are pro active and prevented a member from breaking the law.

It sucks but I make no bones, when Law Enforcement comes knocking, and they do, I will turn in each and every one of you before I risk this place. This is my only job, no way I am risking it for a single member because it might bend a nose. I will turn you over to any agency who asks and they don't have to ask twice, that includes, and believe me I have, copying every post you ever made on here.

Clear?

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Why is it?

Looking the other way at issues needing addressed was never a thought and not my style, I have no issues, in fact I do understand, and have to deal with similar issues with agencies and FB accounts myself in my work. It is your call,and being you I would have acted in the same manner no Doubt! Too much to loose in your position to take chances. How will anyone prove intent of purchase, Knowing vs Proving. Not worth the risk.
But any one person could have notified you or a mod and had it handled PDQ, proper and consistent. The fact that it turned into a game of kick the ball was where we lost it. The body of this site is better than that.

Good on you to come and address it here in front of everybody,says volumes.

Thanks

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Why is it?

I believe all the harsh feelings and "ball kicking" started because alot of fellers felt like one of our own was trying to take advantage of us, do i give a shit he bought rifles to sell, not really but i dont respect a guy who says i bought this for price x and want to rape your butt for price x+. Regardless of illegal acts its was a matter of in yourface i dont respect yall enough to not take advantage of you.

Ive always respected tp's posts, does this change my opinion of him, no just think a guy lacked tact and had a brainfart

 

[el gordo2]

Re: Why is it?

Jon,

It's very simple what he did was illegal. Just like Veer said, you cannot buy "firearms" like that for the sole purpose of reselling them for profit without having an FFL.

If he bought them, and trickled them out over time, he could have slipped through the cracks, but he didn't, he showed them all off and thus demonstrated bad judgement.

People don't seem to get it, there is a line, and websites like this with classified ads get a certain amount of attention. Every agency you can think of patrols this site, some with the intention of grabbing low hanging fruit, you guys who post illegal stuff. A great example is military tech, we have an ICE agent who just loves to ask for IPs and contact info so they can chase down guys selling stuff they shouldn't be. I can tell you the ATF also has accounts on here.

So would you rather I, or we as a community should look the other way and risk it all, or would you rather we police ourselves and catch it early?

<span style="color: #FF0000">By shutting down the thread and banning him, just for a bit, we show we are pro active and prevented a member from breaking the law.

It sucks but I make no bones, when Law Enforcement comes knocking, and they do, I will turn in each and every one of you before I risk this place. This is my only job, no way I am risking it for a single member because it might bend a nose. I will turn you over to any agency who asks and they don't have to ask twice, that includes, and believe me I have, copying every post you ever made on here.</span>

Clear?


Shutting down a thread and banning is a good start.

Lowlight,if someone is clearly breaking the law here on your site dealing with firearms in which you are very well aware of, is it not your responsibility to notify an law enforcement agency to report it?

If not it sends a signal saying it's ok to break a federal law but you just cant do it in here.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why is it?

That is one way of looking at it, I see it different.

He was ignorant of the law and we prevented him from asking a mistake. Advertising his intentions put him in a bad position, stopping him we prevented him from crossing the line.

Had he sold one or more based off the ad, then I think he would be in trouble. He didn't sell any the thread was shut down quickly. We as a community prevented him from getting in trouble.

We shut his car off, took his keys and called him a cab before he drove away from the bar.

 

[hyoslvr]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We shut his car off, took his keys and called him a cab before he drove away from the bar. </div></div>

I get it. I'm on board now!

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess My main issue is. Why is it not a Moderator issue? Why all the dog piling.</div></div>

Because the dude spent the past two weeks talking up this deal, and then attempts to flip the rifles the very day after the sale. In the minds of many, this was not a classy move.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Why is it?

i do appologize to whomever I have “offended” with this, including the administration of the site and LL. the temp vacation was the ruling, if that was the judgement, i accept it and not going to whine or try to repeal it in any fashion, or express any contempt for the site, LL, or the moderators. It is what it is, it's their site not mine, the rules are the rules through their point of view. i understand it and appreciate that the temp ban was to protect the interests of the site. i genuinely did not want to promote generating any “heat” toward the site. if i was shot a PM, email, or anything i would have deleted that post immediately, not to revisit it at all.

an additional bunch of comments of comments are added in the Dick's thread, mostly not to try to "get out" of anything, but to answer a few people that i believe needs answering while not being able to defend myself - basically cowards, some of them came to this thread too to get in a few sucker punches shots. i'll be as tasteful as i can be while still getting the point across to the armchairs that took a shot without knowing what was going on.

i did call the ATF and what i did was not illegal - the purchasing or the selling of the rifles (according to them) with the circumstances around the buy / sell, and is further explained over there on the dicks's thread. the explaination is not meant as a "how to" lesson, but as a proclaimation that i had no intent on doing anything illegal, and would be pretty stupid of me to do so on an open forum.

lowlight, i deleted whatever i posted up on the dick's thread, i can't delete the one in the for sale section as it's locked, or do anything about what show's up in following quotes threads by others.

again, explainations from the ATF why this wasn't illegal, felonous, or otherwise suspicious over there.

this is LL's house, i will not shit in it intentionally. i'm sorry for the inconvienance to LL and his team and have to listen or waste their time messing around with something that i did.