A study of 45ACP brass

[ZLBubba]

I loaded my first big batch of 45ACP on my new-ish Dillon 550B. I had a numerous issues with the priming system that took a couple days to figure out with the help of some Hide members. I paid extra attention not to throw a double charge, but since I just got an RCBS Chargemaster, I thought I'd weigh my rounds and see if I have any glaring issues. Here is the basic load recipe I followed: Assorted brass (the variable), 200gr Rainier copper-plated RN, 5.0gr W231, CCI and Remington primer (ran out of the CCI midway).

To my surprise, I had a very large range of cartridge weights: 288 grains all the way up to 302 grains. I then took 10 rounds from each type of brass I had, weighed them, and averaged the brass weight. Here's what I found, in ascending order:

1. Wilson brass: avg 78.75gr (lightest)
2. PPU brass: avg 79.4gr
3. Winchester: avg 82.9gr
4. Federal: avg 83.3gr
5. RP brass: avg 83.7gr
6. CCI brass: avg 84.5gr
7. CBC brass: avg 85.75gr
8. WCC brass: avg 86.3gr (or 88gr if controlling for 1 outlier)
9. PMC brass: avg 89.3gr (heaviest)

By identifying the PMC brass as the heaviest, I was able to add about 8-9 loaded rounds back into the "use" pile since they were within acceptable deviation. However, the WCC brass was the most disconcerting since the variation with the brass was so high (over 10gr), and I had no way of knowing if the 3 loaded rounds were within the acceptable deviation for weight. Thus, I ended up throwing out 5 total rounds, 3 that were WCC and two that were Winchester and well beyond acceptable deviation. If nothing else, I learned a lot for the next batch of 45ACP that I load.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

Just to be clear here . . . you're loading 45 ACP? For Benchrest?

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

No, I was comparing loaded cartridges to see if I'd either double charged a round or loaded a squib. The Dillon 550b was so cantankerous during this batch that I couldn't be 100% that every load had the right amount of powder. The data you see above is my attempt to weed out any loads that are squibs or overcharged.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

Okay, entirely different story and I salute your diligence. I actually do the same thing with rifle rounds (I don't use the standard Dillon measure, but a Redding BR-30 in one of Dillon's adapters), but there's enough of a difference there that any problem is easy to see. Lots tougher with a 45 ACP, especially in view of the small charges weights that you'd be using with 231.

Personal recommendation here; avoiding double charges in a 550 really just comes down to operator attention to detail. I used to have to load test lots for accuracy samples in the range, and more often than not the bullet press operator who brought them down would want to stay and watch. Unfortunately, they often wanted to chat as I loaded, and several couldn't understand why I was so damned antisocial while they were trying to talk to me . . . while I was trying to reload. Eliminate distractions devote 100% attention to the task, and don't heistate to be downright rude to anyone who wants to chat while you're running a progressive.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

I absolutely agree. This is the first pistol batch I've done on my Dillon and since I had a good number of problems with the priming system, I just didn't want to take the chance on a squib or overcharge. I was about 95% that I didn't have either one, but since I'm shooting 100 rounds, 95% isn't good enough for me.

I learned a lot from doing this. Frankly though, it's too easy just to keep an eye on the brass going into stage 3 to see if it's got a proper load of powder. I may also clear out all cartridges from now on to fix an issue at a certain stage, just to be safe.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

Operating a progressive requires a strict pattern in how you do things, and a routine that has to be repeated on each and every stroke. There are powder sensors that are available, and they're good additions to a press.On the bigger models like the 650 and 1050s, they press indexes automatically with every stroke. On the 550s, you jest have to pay a bit more attention to detail. Not a slight against them, and they're terrific presses. Wouldn't trade them for anything, but they do have some special requirements in operation. Remember that, and you'll probably never have an issue with them.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

The simplest method to avoid a double charge while progressive loading is to select a powder with enough bulk that a double charge will overflow the case. That doesn't negate the necessity of paying attention to what you're doing.

The 45ACP is a low pressure cartridge; those variations in case weight will not have a huge impact on creating dangerous pressures or accuracy (unless you are shooting at the highest levels of competition).

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The simplest method to avoid a double charge while progressive loading is to select a powder with enough bulk that a double charge will overflow the case. That doesn't negate the necessity of paying attention to what you're doing.

The 45ACP is a low pressure cartridge; those variations in case weight will not have a huge impact on creating dangerous pressures or accuracy (unless you are shooting at the highest levels of competition). </div></div>

You make a very good point. I simply wanted to go with W231 for all my 9mm/40/45 needs instead of having various jugs spread throughout my basement. Still, your solution is solid.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

nice post

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

I ran into a similar situation several years ago on my Lee. I had a few loads that were not powdered and had to sort by weight. If you have the same cases and can weigh ot a few to start and you know the variation of your bullets you can establish an expected range that should be right. I don't have my notes with me but I think both the cases and the bullets were within a grain of each other giving about a four grain average window. Kind of tight when you are loading 5 or 5.4 grains of a powder. I found a hand full that were lighter than expected but haven't taken them apart yet. Too busy over the past few years. Maybe when I get home and need something to do if it snows.

The important part is the first squib load cost me a match 1911 barrel. When the case didn't eject I racked it back and fired again. I didn't notice a difference but after that my groups looked like I was throwing bullets by the handfull not aiming. Popedthe slide of and found a crack from the muzzle to the end of the chamber. I learned that a lead bullet with little to no powder will go far enough into the barrel that the next round chambers. Be safe, have fun. Pm Me and I can send you weight variations after Christmas, I'll forget before I get back to the States.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The important part is the first squib load cost me a match 1911 barrel.</span> When the case didn't eject I racked it back and fired again. I didn't notice a difference but after that my groups looked like I was throwing bullets by the handfull not aiming. Popedthe slide of and found a crack from the muzzle to the end of the chamber. I learned that a lead bullet with little to no powder will go far enough into the barrel that the next round chambers. Be safe, have fun. Pm Me and I can send you weight variations after Christmas, I'll forget before I get back to the States. </div></div>

Ruining my gun and hurting myself was the primary concern. While I was *pretty sure* I wouldn't have any problems, now I'm 99.99% positive, and have removed 5 rounds that fall outside of the tolerances I'd expect. Plus, I learned a lot about the aspects of pistol brass that I'd never known. As geeky as it sounds, I love the science behind reloading. It gives me something interesting to do during the winter months!

 

[DocB]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

ZLBubba,

If you figure out why Remington .45 brass burns cleaner than the same load in other brass, please let me know.

Second Buffy's suggestion.

HTH,
DocB

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: A study of 45ACP brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ZLBubba,

If you figure out why Remington .45 brass burns cleaner than the same load in other brass, please let me know.

Second Buffy's suggestion.

HTH,
DocB </div></div>

Ahhhh, I believe some mysteries of the universe may never be known, though I'll keep an eye out as about 40% of all my brass is R-P. I'll be loading a shit ton of ammo this winter, and shooting it all in the spring... that is, IF the Mayan apocalypse doesn't come.