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Baffled: Brass won't resize?

SavageStag

SavageStag

Tech Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 3, 2008
235
0
Nellis AFB, NV
I just got 300 pcs. of once fired Lapua 308 from a Hide member today. I went home and threw them in the tumbler for a few hours then sat down to resize them.
They will only size about .080 of the neck before it gets "stuck." Just to see, I sized two once fired Hornady's with no problems. The outside neck diameters of both averaged .345 with a neck thickness of .015. I don't see a difference between the two.

If anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate it. BTW Lapua is the brand I normally use.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/kohley1/_DSC3153_zpsad081eb7.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/kohley1/_DSC3152_zpsb74029ee.jpg
 
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cessna833 said:
I just got 300 pcs. of once fired Lapua 308 from a Hide member today. I went home and threw them in the tumbler for a few hours then sat down to resize them.
They will only size about .080 of the neck before it gets "stuck." Just to see, I sized two once fired Hornady's with no problems. The outside neck diameters of both averaged .355 with a neck thickness of .015. I don't see a difference between the two.

If anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate it. BTW Lapua is the brand I normally use.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/kohley1/_DSC3153_zpsad081eb7.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/kohley1/_DSC3152_zpsb74029ee.jpg
Click to expand...

How do we know it's the neck that's causing the problem and not the case's web/head area?

What die are you using?

.355" pretty much qualifies as 'blown the fuck out'...my Savage 10FP LE2b blows out my necks to .343"-.344" and that's generous.

Try removing your expander ball/decapping rod and lubing the outside of your necks to see if that helps.

Contact seller and ask him what's up?

I'm thinking that your die just can't step down that far.

Now, if you were one of the Tier 1 cool kids, you'd be using bushing dies with larger, step down bushings and this wouldn't be a problem.

You might as well compare the case head area with other known brass and see what you see.


Chris
 
Of course you are lubing in the same way...

Maybe try and run it thru without the dies neck sizer button? See what happens..
 
Sounds like the decapping pin is hitting the bottom of the case and not knocking out the primer. Are you sure it's boxer primed brass? It could also be the decapping rod is set tool deep.
 
Took de-capper out and it made no difference. I've sized about 4 Hornady's and tried to size four of the Lapua with no luck. The case is tapered so it's very difficult to measure any other areas but it seems like the head area measures the same.
 
PD nut said:
Sounds like the decapping pin is hitting the bottom of the case and not knocking out the primer. Are you sure it's boxer primed brass? It could also be the decapping rod is set tool deep.
Click to expand...

It goes in just far enough to de-cap then stops and yeah the Lapua's are boxer.
 
Is it small primer .308? If by chance it is, the decapping pin won't go through the hole.
 
cessna833 said:
Took de-capper out and it made no difference. I've sized about 4 Hornady's and tried to size four of the Lapua with no luck. The case is tapered so it's very difficult to measure any other areas but it seems like the head area measures the same.
Click to expand...

Are you lubbing the case neck and what lube are you lubbing with?

Chris
 
I wish it was something as simple as no lube or de-capper. All cases were properly lubed and the de-capper is adjusted right because I resized the Hornady's just fine.
 
Hey, you can now add photos directly to you r post without an external hosting service. The user sees a thumbnail and can click for expanded. Hit go advanced and scroll down to manage attachments.
Is this a stock FL RCBS die. I've found them to have the minimum neck dia plus you are using the thickest hardest brass around. I use a 0.336 neck bushing on Lapua. Can you try some sizing wax or axle grease on one or two of them just to see. That case is starting to look like a die necked beer can.
 
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cessna833 said:
I wish it was something as simple as no lube or de-capper. All cases were properly lubed and the de-capper is adjusted right because I resized the Hornady's just fine.
Click to expand...

My guess is is that the Hornady was fired in a different weapon.

It's brass buddy, it's soft and pliable. If the unsized case necks are micing at the same diameter, then the 'bind' has to be someplace else. You need to figure that out.

Again, what lube are you using? All lubes aren't created the same. Also, take a Q-tip and alcohol and clean your die out.

Finally, on many dies, there is a vent hole on the side, see if that's clogged up and if so, unclog it with a toothpick.

Chris
 
Sorry, I've been at Long Rifles Inc. all day having Chad do some work for me. I'm out of lube so I just wiped a thin film of Slip 2000 on the cases. The dies are Forester Bench Rest. The Hornady's were fired in my gun and the Lapuas were fired in the seller's rifle. I'm out of ideas, I'll see if he'll let me return them. Very Strange
 
I think you need to lube a case and get western with it, if you're out of lube, just use cooking oil or motor oil. They might have been fired in an oversize chamber, giving the stuck feeeling, but brass will cave in before cracking steel. If the case is really oversized, it very well could crinkle the outside bottom of the brass.
Chances are if they're that oversized, they wont chamber in your gun anyway
Also in your first pic, it doesn't look like your die is screwed far enough down, might be the pic though. Does your shell holder contact the die when ram is raised? It doesn't have to, but should be close.
 
Hmmm, brass won't chamber in my rifle. But i don't see how that would effect running them through a press. And yeah my die contacts the shell holder. This is the exact setup I've used for 400 +reloads of 308 and I haven't adjusted the die.
 
Are you sure they're once fired? If they are once fitted they should still have the annealing process heat signature visible. I'm thinking the seller misinformed you.
 
bodywerks said:
Are you sure they're once fired? If they are once fitted they should still have the annealing process heat signature visible. I'm thinking the seller misinformed you.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. I know with my Lapua brass that both the new brass that shows the annealing band from the factory as well as brass that I anneal here on my Giraud annealer that shows the annealing band will have that discoloration disappear after SS tumbling.
 
cessna833 said:
Hmmm, brass won't chamber in my rifle. But i don't see how that would effect running them through a press. And yeah my die contacts the shell holder. This is the exact setup I've used for 400 +reloads of 308 and I haven't adjusted the die.
Click to expand...

Good luck.
 
Stupid question, is that a full length sizing die or neck die? Have you smoked or marked an unsized cast to see where it hits your chamber? The neck in your picture, has that been sized down and had the expander pulled back through it? From the other picture it looks like the case isn't entering the die all the way; measuer the mouth of the die and the case just below the mouth of the die see if the case is that much larger. Look at the Lapua and Hornady brass side by side and see if anything jumps out at you.
 
I have 400 pieces of 338 Lapua brass that is the same deal . It was all fired in a TRG , and my Gap chamber is absolute minmum chamber spec . Dave at CH is sending me a small base die to correct it . Yes my shell holder contacted . Turns out that the TRG chamber is 4 though bigger than the match chamber .
Greg
 
Are you using Redding dies by chance? I have to take 400 grit Emery cloth on a wood dowel chucked in a drill to smooth out the chamfer at the base of the die. I go back and hit it with 800g wet, dry sand paper. I use WD40 on both grits. If you look a Redding die and compare to RCBS the RCBS is rounder where the brass feeds into. I try to take the sharp edges out of the Redding die chamfer. Seems to help a lot.
 
A little update. I went and bought some lube and got two to resize with a little effort. The third one got stuck, ripped off the head, and I destroyed my die trying to remove it. I appreciate the offer 280 but I'm just going to send them back and start looking for a new die.

Any suggestions for a new full length die? I was looking at the Redding Bushing die but can't find any in stock. I did find the "small base die" but I'm not sure what that's all about.
 
You dont need and in my opinion dont want a small base die for precision work in a bolt gun. I like Forster dies, they are what I use. The best lube I have used by far is imperial sizing wax, a tin of that is good for thousands of cases, not messy, no spraying, no waiting for it to set up, never had a stuck case.
 
Thanks KY I'll order some of that lube as well. I'm trying to find a place with the Forster FL Benchrest like I had. I can only find the dang things as a set.
 
Thanks Miles! I just ordered one of those and some Imperial Wax from Sinclair. BTW there is no getting that case out. Oh well.
 
cessna833 said:
A little update. I went and bought some lube and got two to resize with a little effort. The third one got stuck, ripped off the head, and I destroyed my die trying to remove it. I appreciate the offer 280 but I'm just going to send them back and start looking for a new die.
Any suggestions for a new full length die? I was looking at the Redding Bushing die but can't find any in stock. I did find the "small base die" but I'm not sure what that's all about.
Click to expand...
They make a stuck case remover kit b/c this wont be the last time a case sticks in your die. You just drill out the primer and tap the pocket and insert the screw from the kit and jack it out. You may need to apply a little Zen to the art of reloading.
 
cessna,
I forgot to tell you about the stuck case remover kit, they do work slick. Don't pitch that die yet. There's alot of people from Rapid on the hide, you can find someone with one. Dixon should have one.
Sorry
 
So how is the Die damaged. Did you gouge it getting the case out.
I had a live round stuck in my chamber last week. talking about a tense afternoon.
 
Check to see if the body of the case is perfectly round. The most difficult cases I've resized were .223 Rem cases that were shot in an overgassed AR. The cases hit the shell deflector too hard, causing the case body to become oblong. The cases measured about .002-.004" wider in one direction than the other. Not sure why this made the shells stick, but I probably got at least 7-8 cases stuck in my dies before I figured out what the problem was.
 
Hey cessna833.
If you can't get the case out of your die call Forsters and see if they'll remove it for you.
Also, if you haven't already tried it, annealing the brass might help.
 
Thanks for the advice guys but I'm sure I damaged the die one way or another, a new one is only $35 so it isn't worth the hassle to me.

BTW my user name used to be SavageStag. I have no idea why it changed or how I change it back.
 
cessna833 said:
Thanks for the advice guys but I'm sure I damaged the die one way or another, a new one is only $35 so it isn't worth the hassle to me.

BTW my user name used to be SavageStag. I have no idea why it changed or how I change it back.
Click to expand...

On the top of page, right side, click settings.
 
SavageStag said:
A little update. I went and bought some lube and got two to resize with a little effort. The third one got stuck, ripped off the head, and I destroyed my die trying to remove it. I appreciate the offer 280 but I'm just going to send them back and start looking for a new die.

Any suggestions for a new full length die? I was looking at the Redding Bushing die but can't find any in stock. I did find the "small base die" but I'm not sure what that's all about.
Click to expand...

Next time you stick one copy the rcbs stuck case removal kit. Lots of people stick cases you don't need to destroy the die to getit out.
 
Here's an update... I'm the guy Savage bought the Lapua brass from... The brass was indeed once fired brass and I did not try to mislead him in any way... It was fired from a SAAMI 308 chambered bolt action rifle...

I refunded the money to Savage and received the brass back today... I grabbed a handful from each bag and ran them through my Redding FL die with expander and decapping rod without a problem or any excessive resistance...

He was kind enough to leave the brass he attempted to resize in one of the bags and I was able to run those through my die without a problem as well...

The brass that was attempted to be resized had unusual marking around the entire case most of the way down the case... After I PM'd Savage I decided to resize all the brass and ran some through an RCBS FL die and had no problems there either... I also ran some through a Redding S bushing die with a .337 bushing and had no problems there either...

I have no clue what the problem was/is but it appears Savage had a die that was allergic to Lapua brass...

A few pics...

Marks on Brass that was attempted to be sized by Savage...

010.jpg


Brass compared to a once fired tumbled piece on right...

006.jpg


Brass that was attempted to be resized...

007.jpg


Same brass run through my Redding FL die...

009.jpg
 
WTH!!! LOL, I don't even know what to say at this point. What's really strange is that the only brass my die has ever seen is Lapua. With the exception of the trouble shooting I did for this. Oh and BIG props to EHG for having the patience, and kindness to deal with me and refund my money. A lesser man could have left me stuck.
 
I forgot to add, I received my new Forester die and Imperial wax today. Once fired Rem will not go into this one either! I called Forester and they are going to send me a sample of their lube to try (like that's going to matter.) So I guess i better just order a Redding die and be done with it (hopefully.)
 
I have run 30.06 brass through my Hornady and Lee .308 resizer/decapper die. Yeah, more effort is required but that leads me to believe an ove sized/expanded .308 case should be resized in a .308 die (with the proper amount/type of case lube) without much of an issue. Sticking with the .308 sized cases I've run .358 Win. brass through my .308 dies to make .308 brass.

Case stuck in the die? Again, sounds like a lube issue.

I never put lube on the outsides of the neck for standard resizing, sometimes on the insides (every few pieces of brass) but never on the outside. I just hand roll them back and forth on the lube pad and then resize them. The necks don't contact the surface of the lube pad.

There is an issue here besides neck size of the brass, unless the brand of dies used is that much different from Lee, Hornady (Pacific) or RCBS.
 
Shit kid, you've got bad luck!
There's no magical lube, so finding a different die might be the key.

There was another thread started yesterday on kind of the same problem with 338 Lapua.
Caliper the die mouth as close as you can to see the diff between it and your case heads. You'd think Forster was making saami spec dies, not match chambers.
 
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