NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

[chooter]

Re: NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

A lot of good points have been made on both sides of this issue. Still I believe that what it all comes down to do not bad mouth anyone else's game and most importantly just <span style="text-decoration: underline">SHUT UP AND SHOOT.</span>

 

[c ward]

Re: NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

What I have been saying for years , the NRA is in the business of keeping the NRA in business .

One has to ask that for the past 6 years there has been a field practical rifle match , NRAWC Sporting Rifle Match , at there back door so to speak . No one from the new "tactical rifle " arm has made contact with anyone associated with the match .

This match has been a monthly occurrence put on by a small group of practical shooters from the Denver metro area .
All of the little idiosyncrasies in the rules are driven by concessions made to the NRAWC when the match was started because the director at the time did not want to be associated with a " tactical " match . Since that time the director has moved on and the new director and program director are a pleasure to work with .
Any one who has shot the match will tell you the the name " Sporting Rifle " has nothing to do with the NRA sporting rifle matches .

This leads to the question of actually how serious they are going after this market or whether this is another money making venture ?
The NRA has stepped far from there roots of promoting marksmanship through competition and training and is more concerned with being one of if not the biggest lobbyist in DC . No good or bad here it is what it is but saying that the NRA is concerned with competition first just isn't so .
Which leads to the conclusion that putting an organization that does not have competition as its primary focus in charge of a match isn't the smartest thing to do .

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

To elaborate on the Sporting Rifle Match that C.Ward described: The initial investment (2004) in steel targets for that match was made by a group of about a dozen Denver-area 3-Gun and Long-range shooters. Since then, the match's fees have paid for everything. It actually pays NRAWC a per-shooter fee every match, to the tune of over $2000 for the August match last year.

 

[Raven 6]

Re: NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

I doubt there has been anything wrong with the way matches have been conducted by the various groups that have posted on this site. And I would venture to say that the NRA hasn't contributed anything to them. I say we keep on keeping on the way we have been doing all along, and let the NRA stick to what they do best, lobbying.

 

[Grump]

Re: NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is some more info about Trey should anyone be interested in having some updates on what the NRA is up to lately with the shooting sports.

This is my e-edition, so hopefully others can open it as well.

http://www.nxtbook.com/fx/mags/lastissue.php?mp=/nxtbooks/nra/shootingsportsusa </div></div>
Just see table of contents (referring to the story starting on page 22) of that document to see the type of USPSA style "test bed" "what works best" "do it like NASCAR to develop the limits" nonsense that comes about, paradoxically, by having too many rules, yet failing to have the guts to have a rule to outlaw something silly, impractical, and which will most likely NEVER make it to the hunting fields:

An 8-inch tall scope mount on a pistol for shooting iron critters.

The snippet I see there hints that the NRA approach is trying to get tactical matches developed for square ranges. Okay, there's room for that.

Just beware efforts to "level the playing field" or "avoid an equipment race". The first, if taken too far, restricts innovation and makes it too artificial, like never, ever having a stage with more than five rounds *without* a required reload. The second, if taken too far, risks becoming too much like IDPA's lists of "approved" equipment.

If NRA keeps its phobia of muzzle brakes, it will be merely another variation of F-Class and will die on the vine.

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

Come on out and support it.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2143908#Post2143908

 

[scorehi]

Re: NRA involvment in Tactical Rifle competition

I wish I could be there. It will be a blast, because nobody puts on a better match than Vu. Today I shot the local F-Class match here in Albuquerque and I had a ball. Myself and a friend of mine each shot 6.5 Creedmoors built on Remington 700 actions fitted with a McMillan A-5 stock off bi-pods. We got spanked!! BUT, we had to shoot in the unlimited class against some fantastic shooters. We are very lucky to have some of the best F class shooters in the world here in Albuquerque so I don’t feel bad about my spanking. I am shooting a magazine fed 12 pound rifle off a bi-pod against 22 pound benchrest rifles off of a Farley rest. I would have liked to shot against shooters with equipment similar to mine. I had fun, I learn every time I shoot and I will do it again. There are High Power ranges sprinkled all over the country and if they are any thing like our local High Power range they are grossly under used. I hope this new venue in Sacramento finds support and spreads across the country like wild fire.

I believe tactical matches are a different matter. Lack of participation does not seem to be a problem. In fact it can be quite the opposite. Most matches worth attending have a waiting list. Every range has unique qualities. I have shot at Scott’s match in Phoenix, Vu’s match in Sacramento and the Sporting Rifle match at the NRA Whittington Center at Raton, NM to name a couple. They are all great. They are vastly different. A good match director can take what he has available, use his imagination and produce a good match so long as he is not tied down with too many rules

As long as a shooters rifle does not damage targets I don’t care what he shoots. If your man enough to carry a 30 pound rifle and a table to shoot off of that’s fine. When you can’t keep up and the other shooters and they leave you in the dust because you carry too much crap you will see the light. If you can carry it you can have it, that’s my motto. It is the option of the match director to decide the details of each stage. Just because a shooter drags along 500 pounds of toys doesn’t mean he gets to use them. Ah, behold the power of the match director for he is God and should never be trumped by the NRA. Out side of rules having to do with safety I think that should be all the rules required.

Charley

 

[pawprint2]

I think shooting is a lot like racing. How fast do you want to go and how much do you want to spend. I only shoot in local tac matches and have a blast doing it. I only shoot .308 and yesterday I was feeling "Old School" and patriotic so I drug out the M40a1. I didn't win nor did I embarrass myself.

As for the NRA taking a greater role in this type of shooting; can anyone tell me exactly what type of shooting this is? You go to any number of different events around the country and you'll get a different match. It isn't the same range with the same rules.

Most of us got into this sport because it meant putting rounds on target under various conditions. How the hell do you make that a standard?

On a side note when the NRA is more interested in legal gun owners and less interested in lobbying I'll pay attention to what they are saying.

There is a way to "make it standard". If the rules called for catagories such as 100 to 400 meters, 401-800 meters, 801-1200meter (just for examples sake), any target within these zones would count as x points along with x additonal points for size of target. Just for argument sake, a 3 inch target shot within cat one would count a 1 hit +1, where as a 2 inch target within cat one would count as 1 hit +2 (this is just a very rough example, but I"m sure you see what I mean), total rounds fired would be a factor, for example 1 round 1 hit zero minus, 2 rounds 1 hit minus a figure maybe 1/2 a point depending on distance. Time for course completion would also be counted, more than x minutes-minues, more than y minutes -bigger minus etc. The shorter courses (600 yard for example) semi's could have an advantage, however; this would be known in advance. The best was to "even the field" would be to award higher points to the longer range targets, lets say 800-1200 catagory-typically bolt guns should shine here. I guess what I'm saying, rules don't have to be a bad thing, and having rules does not mean having to standardize the true course of fire. Some events that might be "worth while", military cartridge only course, where the .308 and now the 300WM would be the only two allowed-forget the 50 and 338 Lapua. In short the m24 and m40 class, and as it could go.

 

[pawprint2]

I wish I could be there. It will be a blast, because nobody puts on a better match than Vu. Today I shot the local F-Class match here in Albuquerque and I had a ball. Myself and a friend of mine each shot 6.5 Creedmoors built on Remington 700 actions fitted with a McMillan A-5 stock off bi-pods. We got spanked!! BUT, we had to shoot in the unlimited class against some fantastic shooters. We are very lucky to have some of the best F class shooters in the world here in Albuquerque so I don’t feel bad about my spanking. I am shooting a magazine fed 12 pound rifle off a bi-pod against 22 pound benchrest rifles off of a Farley rest. I would have liked to shot against shooters with equipment similar to mine. I had fun, I learn every time I shoot and I will do it again. There are High Power ranges sprinkled all over the country and if they are any thing like our local High Power range they are grossly under used. I hope this new venue in Sacramento finds support and spreads across the country like wild fire.

I believe tactical matches are a different matter. Lack of participation does not seem to be a problem. In fact it can be quite the opposite. Most matches worth attending have a waiting list. Every range has unique qualities. I have shot at Scott’s match in Phoenix, Vu’s match in Sacramento and the Sporting Rifle match at the NRA Whittington Center at Raton, NM to name a couple. They are all great. They are vastly different. A good match director can take what he has available, use his imagination and produce a good match so long as he is not tied down with too many rules

As long as a shooters rifle does not damage targets I don’t care what he shoots. If your man enough to carry a 30 pound rifle and a table to shoot off of that’s fine. When you can’t keep up and the other shooters and they leave you in the dust because you carry too much crap you will see the light. If you can carry it you can have it, that’s my motto. It is the option of the match director to decide the details of each stage. Just because a shooter drags along 500 pounds of toys doesn’t mean he gets to use them. Ah, behold the power of the match director for he is God and should never be trumped by the NRA. Out side of rules having to do with safety I think that should be all the rules required.

Charley

Right on, this is the type of RULE that should be put in the rules from the start- If you carry it, you can use it, however; I don't believe you should be allowed to litter the course. If you carry it from the start, you keep it to the finish, you can't "shed gear" 1/2 way through, and go pick it up later. As long as you don't damge the targets is another spot that may be good for a Rule. If the rules stated the type of steel and thickness for various distances, then vel. and bullet types would be more standardized, this only helps the shooter, if it changes from match to match, it requires more load development etc., not a bad thing. I for one am glad the NRA is interested in Lobbying, where would be without them? We all hear about their lobby efforts, but not so much about the 1000s of NRA affiliated (insurance etc)clubs across the U.S. and all the events that are NRA sanctioned. I think the NRA (l'm a proud life member) made a mistake when they took the match results out of the American Rifleman (I know the other old guys on this board remember that) and made it a seperate pub. the entire membership was able to see what was going on via the matches every month.