Any gold/silver/precious metal portfolio experts around?

[TheGerman]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but still think there's time to get in eventually given our economic state and the fact that QE will eventually come home to roost.

Anyways, I'm stock savvy enough to be dangerous, but I know just what I've read online with gold/silver/metals and wanted to talk to someone that has hands-on experience with it and insights on what to do, what not to do, where to look, etc. Wanted to start talking to people that actually hedge/invest with metals before I learn the hard way.

Feel free to IM me and we can talk.

Thanks

 

[W54/XM-388]

A good start would be to read what happened with the whole MF global collapse. If you are worried about what happens when the music comes to a complete stop, pretty much the only thing for sure will be what you have in your hands.

That being said, there are lots of other strategies and investments that you can do without having things in hand, that will cover changing of the tune quite well.

 

[timesublime]

Gold Coins and Gold Bullion since 1973

^^has some good resources.

 

[Finris]

In Utah, I would probably do what most of the Mormons due and invest in LTS food and then ammunition. Gold and silver would be my last investment. I would go to places that would let me pay cash for it "think gold confiscations" and places like Cyprus. I would talk to a dealer in gold and silver and see what the locals are all getting. I think most Americans are into fractional up to an ounce. Many folks don't seem to like Kuggerands and that other foreign stuff...

 

[diverdon]

I would not wish to have the physical bullion or coin in my home. But, I did feel a need for some exposure to the metal in my portfolio, so I bought some SPROTT RESOURCE CP ticker SCPZF. Sprott Resource Corp. is a Canadian investment company that invests in Hard assets. Being Canadian, you would still have your gold or its value in Canadian dollars, even if a future US government were to make the ownership of gold illegal.

 

[TheGerman]

Thanks for the info. I've read a bit online but alot of it seems to be on the actual gold websites or ends up being from someone who is then trying to sell me gold/silver, so I take it with a grain of salt.

As far as the purpose of buying metals, the premise if I am correct is not to buy them as an investment per se but as a hedge against the dollar. Help me to understand this more as I do understand the basic premise, but if I am turning my cash currency into metals which have a possibility to both increase/decrease in value and am not purchasing the metals to 'flip' them isn't this a longer term investment regardless especially given that the dollar is going to shit? I am under the impression that doing this would be removing the cash I use to buy metals from my savings account earning like .001% interest and in the same time losing a greater percentage to inflation from the entire equation.

I'm only interested in actual physical gold/silver/metal and have started budgeting what percentage of our monthly expendable income can go to purchasing this as I am tired of putting it in a bank and collecting some laughable amount of interest, knowing that its worth less when I pull it out. Wife is contributing to the retirement plan at work (I'm retired) but she has 30+ years until she is allowed to draw from it and I have little faith that it will be A. left unmolested by the government B. still be there by that time, so I am really looking into something like physical metal because of the fact that I have it in my hands and will not give it up, I know the actual value of it, it's not tied to our shit economy/dollar and if I do decide to sell it there will be no tax issues for me.

I've read in a few spots that with your metals portfolio, they suggest an 80/20 ratio of gold to silver but I'm not completely convinced this is true. Both have value and while both are currently 'up' I don't see a bubble coming, even though I am waiting a little to buy and trying to formulate a set 'buy price' for beginning this.

 

[sharac]

It's dropping nicely so if you have some dry powder i'd consider starting to spend as it will either rebound soon or creep down to 1200-1300$/oz. Some even speculate it might go to 1100 (which i highly doubt). But whatever you do get physical and loose it on the way home somewhere and don't discuss about it with anyone except those whom you trust with life...

If you feel like gambling you can hedge your phys. buys with some online betting (spreads, futures) with either shorting or going long eventually but fully expect to loose every $ send to online broker...

Stay far far away from any stocks, bonds or other "dark" paper (like cds, spreads on indices or whatever else sick minds invent to fleece sheep with)...

GFGGL -> grub/friends/guns/gold/land

 

[TheGerman]

It's dropping nicely so if you have some dry powder i'd consider starting to spend as it will either rebound soon or creep down to 1200-1300$/oz. Some even speculate it might go to 1100 (which i highly doubt). But whatever you do get physical and loose it on the way home somewhere and don't discuss about it with anyone except those whom you trust with life...

If you feel like gambling you can hedge your phys. buys with some online betting (spreads, futures) with either shorting or going long eventually but fully expect to loose every $ send to online broker...

Stay far far away from any stocks, bonds or other "dark" paper (like cds, spreads on indices or whatever else sick minds invent to fleece sheep with)...

GFGGL -> grub/friends/guns/gold/land

The only people that know about this are myself, my wife and my immediate trust them with my life family. Anyone else I know doesn't even know how many rifles I have (always think I'm buying new shit all of the time) let alone will they know anything about our finances or savings. My wife is an oncologist, so people know we're not broke, but we also don't go full retard with showing off shiny shit that screams come take our stuff either. It's just gotten to the point that we have X disposable income above and beyond normal spending and savings that I wanted to do something with to counteract the pathetic bullshit that is our dollar and economy.

I only want physical metals that I can lose in the horrible boating accident I am bound to have or am always giving away to people for birthday/graduation/sweet 16 gifts. As I said, I'm 'ok' with stocks and the market but never really got into it, and the last straw was with my former employers 401k plan where your options all amounted to pretty much which would lose the least amount of money. I know the market is going full retard right now, but am also smart enough to know that A. its falsely inflated and B. its going to hurt when it happens.

Curious, what would your buy price be for gold/silver?

 

[sharac]

Curious, what would your buy price be for gold/silver?

For me in general its the question of how much spare income do i have and not of the price - though i try to time my purchase to coincide with pullbacks . So in general as the saying goes best day to buy gold was yesterday with today being 2nd best and tomorrow being 3rd best... IF i had some left (taking donations ) i'd start today (depends on your local premiums over spot and availability and your preference coins/bullion etc...) with perhaps 50% and see if goes down when Comex opens in a few hours and then the rest. Since you have surplus income this is certainly not a one time deal and you can afford to have it lost for a while so 100$/oz up or down makes no difference in the long run.

 

[Maggot]

Don't know if ou got the pm I sent. Sharac is right on, IMHO. Wish I had bought more several yesterdays ago. I advised Kitco because they are Canadian, and there is no record of what you buy from them....its all sent by secure USPO or Fed Ex right to your house. If you look at the historical charts it appears to me that its ready to start its long climb again.

 

[KYpatriot]

Gold and silver are not the only real asset inflation hedges. Any commodity can act as such, like steel, or cattle, ammo, etc. If you are holding physical gold because you are afraid it will be made illegal, then the market for such gold will get locked up as well. It may be hard to convert your gold to things you need in that case. On the other hand, I don't really see .gov trying that this time around like FDR did last time. People are not likely to roll over for that again.
Just remember, in your scenario, you had better have: your own food stored up, your own source of water available without power, and the ability to have heat independently, and the means to protect all that before you will care about how much gold you have.

 

[TheGerman]

Gold and silver are not the only real asset inflation hedges. Any commodity can act as such, like steel, or cattle, ammo, etc. If you are holding physical gold because you are afraid it will be made illegal, then the market for such gold will get locked up as well. It may be hard to convert your gold to things you need in that case. On the other hand, I don't really see .gov trying that this time around like FDR did last time. People are not likely to roll over for that again.
Just remember, in your scenario, you had better have: your own food stored up, your own source of water available without power, and the ability to have heat independently, and the means to protect all that before you will care about how much gold you have.

I am covering the other items like food, ammunition, energy, etc and the wife is on-board. I'm not really too worried about metals being illegal and/or confiscated, but like the flexibility the hard assets have and have wanted to not be directly in the stock market for our future. These seemed to me to be a better bet than putting money in a bank account due to inflation, shitty return on your cash and maybe a little bit of the direction I see us heading in; I'd much rather have my hands on it than it be a number on some piece of paper.

I don't see them coming after anything either mainly due to the fact that most people are 1 organized step away from seriously fighting back as it is. I just want something to do with the expendable income we have that isn't a joke like putting it in a 'savings' account or a huge risk as I see the current stock market as being.

 

[E. Bryant]

Given what the PM market has been doing the past few days, you might be getting in at a good time. A bit of patience would be well-advised in the coming days and weeks, since I'm nowhere near certain that the bottom has been found; either hold off entirely and see how good you are at calling the bottom of the market, or spread your buying over a period of time to do a bit of dollar cost averaging if you think that the present weakness may linger.

 

[Phil1]

Well its getting hammered today:
Gold Extends Bear-Market Plunge Below $1,400 - Bloomberg

The "herd" on wall street is concerned about China's latest slowdown. Since you've heard of QE. You should read:
Ruchir Sharma: China Has Its Own Debt Bomb - WSJ.com

And Google "ghost cities china"

Europe is far from done. Cyprus came back for 33% more money on its bailout last week. Politicians all over the world except for a few have decided to spend their way out of this so called "double-dip". Search for the Japanese govt's latest spending spree!

US citizens always seem to think that the US is in the worst fiscal position and going downhill fastest. NOT true. The problem arises because the greenback is the currency of choice for worldwide pricing and use. This has kept the value up.

Back to Gold. If you've decided to buy physical gold, buy monthly, quarterly as you can afford. Try to buy from a source with the least premium over the spot price.

There are a bunch of links in the Economist's story below that did not survive the "copy and paste" from the website. So lots of further reading there.


Investing
The gold bears emerge
Apr 4th 2013, 12:30 by Buttonwood

GOLD touched $1541 an ounce today, and having fallen 18% from its high, is nearing the conventional definition of a bear market (a 20% decline). All this is occurring as the Bank of Japan cranks up the monetary presses, there is no sign of a change in expansionary monetary policy at the Fed, and an expectation that the Bank of England will ease policy once Mark Carney takes over.

Indeed, gold's fall contrasts with a sudden boom in the price of another alternative currency, Bitcoin (although the price has been hit today by attacks on the website). As Felix Salmon notes in an excellent post on the virtual money, enthusiasts for Bitcoin and gold come from separate social niches so this trend divergence is explicable, even though one might think their fundamental similarities (a restricted supply) might prompt them to be correlated in normal circumstances. Another explanation for the gap is that the Bitcoin bubble, like any other, is a case of investors piling into an illiquid asset that has suddenly made the news (the story was on the front of the FT today).

In a sense, Bitcoin, a currency with no backing at all except faith (see FT Alphaville), is reminiscent of the "undertaking of great advantage but no one to know what it is" that (perhaps apocryphally) marked the peak of the South Sea Bubble. Of course, many might remark that developed world currencies have no metallic backing and so exist on faith as well; however they do have legal tender status and have the (admittedly impaired) implied backing of the tax-raising powers of their governments. Western governments may yet undermine their currencies but they haven't so far; dollars and euros are pretty universally accepted.

But back to gold. As this blog has mentioned before, the metal is very hard to value; that was an advantage on the way up, but is a disadvantage on the way down. There is no yield and no-one really has to own it; indeed many people only own it because it has been rising for much of this century. Now the bears are starting to emerge; Patrick Legland at SG had just produced a note looking for an end-year price of $1375 an ounce (and an average 2013 price of $1500). He argues that we have not seen the inflation to justify the phenomenal rise in the gold price in recent years (it doubled after 2007); that economic growth may be returning to normal; and that the dollar has rebounded. On that last point, of the G10 major currencies, only the New Zealand dollar has outperfomed the US dollar so far this year, and that only marginally; the yen and sterling have fallen 6-7% against the greenback. Low real interest rates have helped gold (reducing the opportunity cost of holding it) but recent falls in inflation have caused real rates to rise, although they are still negative in many places.

As Mr Legland points out, the fall in gold may simply be a return to normal conditions; since the end of 1971, gold investors have suffered negative returns in 38% of all rolling one-year periods. There are other signs that commodities in general may be losing their hold on investors; copper has experienced its worst start to the year in a decade. Indeed, its fall is perhaps even more interesting than that of gold; is it a sign that the world economy is weakening (the Dr Copper theory that it's the best indicator of global activity) or a sign that, on contrast, risk appetite has shifted in favour of equities, and away from raw materials?

For what it's worth, my view is that the fall in the gold price is a much-needed shakeout, that the world economy is not as strong as the equity markets indicate, and that eventually some central banks will generate high inflation as a way of reducing the debt burden. The alternative - default - is even more painful as Greece and Cyprus have shown. But, alas, I'm not smart enough to know when that inflation will occur - not imminently.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2013/04/investing

^^^^^^^ Go direct to the website to read about a dozen links to additional stories and research. The Economist provides 10 free stories per month for non subscribers.

 

[SFree]

Gold and silver are not the only real asset inflation hedges. Any commodity can act as such, like steel, or cattle, ammo, etc. If you are holding physical gold because you are afraid it will be made illegal, then the market for such gold will get locked up as well. It may be hard to convert your gold to things you need in that case. On the other hand, I don't really see .gov trying that this time around like FDR did last time. People are not likely to roll over for that again.
Just remember, in your scenario, you had better have: your own food stored up, your own source of water available without power, and the ability to have heat independently, and the means to protect all that before you will care about how much gold you have.

I'm not savvy to the "markets" and historically, precious metals hold a value, to some, but when it goes, and it will, the only commodities will be water, gas, beans, and bullets...

 

[pawprint2]

Gold and silver are not the only real asset inflation hedges. Any commodity can act as such, like steel, or cattle, ammo, etc. If you are holding physical gold because you are afraid it will be made illegal, then the market for such gold will get locked up as well. It may be hard to convert your gold to things you need in that case. On the other hand, I don't really see .gov trying that this time around like FDR did last time. People are not likely to roll over for that again.
Just remember, in your scenario, you had better have: your own food stored up, your own source of water available without power, and the ability to have heat independently, and the means to protect all that before you will care about how much gold you have.

I agree with most of your post, however; I do not agree with cattle being a commodity, in the "survival sense". Cattle require feed, and care. As a field that requires tending in order to get a crop, does not meet my requirements as a commodity. Real assets, gold, silver, food, a bag of 8 penny nails, will all have a known value when the currency is de-valued. It has to be "tradeable". The devaluation of the currency is currently taking place-through hugh inflationary moves. As the great folks in Washington keep telling us, we have very little or no inflation-it is just that almost everything costs more! Over the long haul, gold/silver will "hold their own", always have, always will. Regarding "suvival" gold and silver, you'll need silver more often than gold. Most of your trades will be for items that don't come up to the value of lets say 1/4ounce of gold. Ten ounces of gold, does not take up much space, and has a value of $16,000, holding gold is not very difficult. Even if gold is "outlawed", the world market will remain alive and well, I guess only outlaws will have gold-I wonder if that includes the bands on fingers, and the fillings in teeth?

 

[E. Bryant]

US citizens always seem to think that the US is in the worst fiscal position and going downhill fastest. NOT true. The problem arises because the greenback is the currency of choice for worldwide pricing and use. This has kept the value up.

It's also important to remember that, despite all the "printing" occurring around the world, credit is still drying-up, which has its own deflationary effect (the past 25 years in Japan being a prime example). Good if you're a net saver as your purchasing power increases, but very bad if you are a debtor.

 

[Phil1]

It's also important to remember that, despite all the "printing" occurring around the world, credit is still drying-up, which has its own deflationary effect (the past 25 years in Japan being a prime example). Good if you're a net saver as your purchasing power increases, but very bad if you are a debtor.

I'LL RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE ON THAT ONE!
Global debt guide: The debtors' merry-go-round | The Economist

A good Graph below on Governments Net Fin. liabilities over last decade.
Econbrowser: How long can Japanese bond prices defy gravity?

Below a PDF dissertation on the role of the greenback in worldwide debt and international debt denominated in US dollars.
http://www.capitalsynthesis.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/BIS-USD-credit.pdf

The simplest way to understand the expansion of debt is this "Debt Clock". The Economist is usually thought to be reliable and credible. The numbers are going up not down. Hence worldwide the money supply is expanding through debt not savings(and growth).
World debt comparison: The global debt clock | The Economist

Anyway. Back to GOLD. I've heard that women like it secondary only to diamonds!

 

[E. Bryant]

Phil,

You are correct in noting the huge rise in debt by governments around the world, but much of that is simply an offset to the collapse in debt elsewhere. The reason that the Fed can print $85B each month with relatively modest inflation is simply that a similar amount of credit becomes unavailable at approximately the same rate.

Make no mistake - I see this ride getting out of control at some point in the not-so-distant future, and the likely end game is hyperinflation since that is less destructive to debtors. But in the short term, it is exceedingly difficult to predict which way prices will go, and we simply need to look towards Japan or to late 2008 for a multitude of examples.

I just don't want anyone jumping into any investment class thinking that there is no way but up for prices to go, because that is a good way to get hurt. Gold could easily slip another few hundred dollars per ounce before recovering; not a problem for long-term investors since it'll eventually rebound to no less than the cost to extract it from the ground, but rather painful for someone who is maxing out their credit cards to buy PMs.

 

[Phil1]

Phil,

You are correct in noting the huge rise in debt by governments around the world, but much of that is simply an offset to the collapse in debt elsewhere. The reason that the Fed can print $85B each month with relatively modest inflation is simply that a similar amount of credit becomes unavailable at approximately the same rate.

Make no mistake - I see this ride getting out of control at some point in the not-so-distant future, and the likely end game is hyperinflation since that is less destructive to debtors. But in the short term, it is exceedingly difficult to predict which way prices will go, and we simply need to look towards Japan or to late 2008 for a multitude of examples.

I just don't want anyone jumping into any investment class thinking that there is no way but up for prices to go, because that is a good way to get hurt. Gold could easily slip another few hundred dollars per ounce before recovering; not a problem for long-term investors since it'll eventually rebound to no less than the cost to extract it from the ground, but rather painful for someone who is maxing out their credit cards to buy PMs.

I mostly agree.

Except the possibility of a Japan like deflationary recession. Where accumulated debt drags the economy down over a decades long time regardless of attempts of intervention.

The second is an inflationary spiral.

I don't know where gold fits in the first scenario. Its positioned well in the second.

The problem with a global economy interlinked with only 3-4 large currencies is that there is little room for countries to maneuver in a traditional sense. i.e. use independent currencies and independent treasury bodies to control a domestic economy for a national fiscal objective.

 

[E. Bryant]

Here is some good contrarian thinking on the topic of gold investing:

God is Making Gold Crash to Test Your Faith | The Reformed Broker

 

[hofhine1]

relatively modest inflation
.

That's the funniest shit I've ever read.

Buy a set of tires lately?

Paid cash for a medical procedure?

Bought any ammo lately, like maybe .22?

Buy any bacon, eggs, milk, bread, dog food, fuel, thhn, fuel oil, (or fuel of any kind for that matter) hell I don't know, do you even shop for anything?

The 'hundred dollar club' I pay to shop at is now the three hundred and fifty dollar club. Same buggy, just a 'slightly' or as you say, 'modestly' inflated price from just a few years ago.

I can just imagine the ten cent candy bar and the quarter (sixteen ounce in a glass returnable bottle)Coca-Cola as 'modestly less expensive' than today.

Of course that was when I was shooting an eighty nine dollar Browning lever action .22, and shooting bricks of .22 ammo that were 4.29 USD.

And believe me, I'm not that old, I just have a better memory than most folks.

I was buying silver before Y2K at 66 bucks for 20 American Eagles in a plastic sleeve, I guess, even with the recent crash, that those would be 'modestly' less expensive than today, and Gold Canadian Maple Leafs were out the door at my local coin shop 269USD.

My wife thought I was a complete fucking idiot.

Right now I don't feel horrible about owning PM's, I'm buying the dip.

Fuck Wall Street and all the TBTF banks, if those evil bastards want to steal from me, whether in a Cyprus style event, or through 'relatively modest' inflation in a ZIRP environment, they'll generally have to present themselves to my face.

To the OP, [email protected], I have a guy on our side that I buy from, shoot me an email and I'll send you my number and we can talk, he's sent boatloads to lots of folks down here without a hiccup.


sean

 

[sharac]

My wife thought I was a complete fucking idiot.

Hmm building on your observation how are her perceptions now deflated or inflated ...

On serious note do not kid yourself for one second, public figures (CPI etc...) distort image completely i won't even go into details about food package sizes and quality. But hey as long as the normal glass of Coke is half a gallon and Ipad changes capital version number every three months whats not like eh?

 

[TheGerman]

That's the funniest shit I've ever read.

Buy a set of tires lately?

Paid cash for a medical procedure?

Bought any ammo lately, like maybe .22?

Buy any bacon, eggs, milk, bread, dog food, fuel, thhn, fuel oil, (or fuel of any kind for that matter) hell I don't know, do you even shop for anything?

The 'hundred dollar club' I pay to shop at is now the three hundred and fifty dollar club. Same buggy, just a 'slightly' or as you say, 'modestly' inflated price from just a few years ago.

I can just imagine the ten cent candy bar and the quarter (sixteen ounce in a glass returnable bottle)Coca-Cola as 'modestly less expensive' than today.

Of course that was when I was shooting an eighty nine dollar Browning lever action .22, and shooting bricks of .22 ammo that were 4.29 USD.

And believe me, I'm not that old, I just have a better memory than most folks.

I was buying silver before Y2K at 66 bucks for 20 American Eagles in a plastic sleeve, I guess, even with the recent crash, that those would be 'modestly' less expensive than today, and Gold Canadian Maple Leafs were out the door at my local coin shop 269USD.

My wife thought I was a complete fucking idiot.

Right now I don't feel horrible about owning PM's, I'm buying the dip.

Fuck Wall Street and all the TBTF banks, if those evil bastards want to steal from me, whether in a Cyprus style event, or through 'relatively modest' inflation in a ZIRP environment, they'll generally have to present themselves to my face.

To the OP, [email protected], I have a guy on our side that I buy from, shoot me an email and I'll send you my number and we can talk, he's sent boatloads to lots of folks down here without a hiccup.


sean

Cool, Ill shoot you an email.

And this stuck out to me as being something I 110% agree with and is part of what has turned me into finally doing this instead of always saying that I should:

Fuck Wall Street and all the TBTF banks, if those evil bastards want to steal from me, whether in a Cyprus style event, or through 'relatively modest' inflation in a ZIRP environment, they'll generally have to present themselves to my face.

 

[E. Bryant]

That's the funniest shit I've ever read.

Do you understand the difference between inflation as a monetary phenomenon, an increase in prices as a function of supply and demand, and an increase in prices as a function of regulation? If you're bringing the prices of .22LR ammo and tires into the conversation, I'd suggest there may be an issue in this regard.

It's also important to note that even "moderate" inflation in the range of 2-3% will severely fuck over one's savings over the period of several decades.

Anyways, might want to save your venom for someone who is perhaps a bit further from your own viewpoints.

 

[W54/XM-388]

While Gold goes up and down regularly, it usually winds up having a similar value over the long haul and it's easy to hide, transport and sell.

Wealth tax to pay for EU bail-outs - Telegraph

Ruinous euro rescues - Telegraph

First they tax the ever loving stuffing out of you, then they devalue your money, then when that is not enough, they come for your bank accounts and when that doesn't satisfy the wolves, they come for your house and your property. That is why some people would like a bit of gold as a backup.

 

[hofhine1]

Do you understand the difference between inflation as a monetary phenomenon, an increase in prices as a function of supply and demand, and an increase in prices as a function of regulation? If you're bringing the prices of .22LR ammo and tires into the conversation, I'd suggest there may be an issue in this regard.

It's also important to note that even "moderate" inflation in the range of 2-3% will severely fuck over one's savings over the period of several decades.

Anyways, might want to save your venom for someone who is perhaps a bit further from your own viewpoints.

Sorry if you thought it was directed at you.

You were somewhat quoting that head cheesedick over at the Fed, and that motherfucker has my venom. You, none whatsoever.

The 22 ammo is somewhat of an anomaly, but last time I looked, every Discount tire store in town had themselves a shitload of tires, and the ability to get all I want, so there's no supply problem.

I'm hearing a 12 to 17 hundred dollars a set for guys who drive Super duty pickups like mine, that's relatively more than my last set of MT/R's I paid a grand for. Yes I know the government fucked the market on those tires, but the price is sticking like glue right now. Next time you see a Kenworth ask what a set of those jewels cost now. Last set I bought was four grand, and that was just the eight on the back, no steers, no trailer. Five hundred USD a throw for mid grade, American made drive tires I used to pay two-twenty each for.

Bacon, Hormel, yesterday 5.99 on the twelve ounce pack, cheapie bread I feed my dog, 1.29, bread I feed myself 2.19 (with the Fry's card), and yes, 70/30 ground beef, 2.99 per pound.

Those items, as of now show no supply or demand problems, just price problems, for a shopper like me. Or anyone working for wages.

And CPI came out yesterday at 1.5% year over year.

That's the biggest fuckin bald faced lie I've ever heard.

I guess as long as the bag of sugar is four pounds instead of five, that 1.5 percent price increase would be okay with me.

Or if they price shit made in China by slave labor, and not stuff I buy that was grown, manufactured, built, or mined, in these United States of America by folks that want , like me, to see this country work out long term.

That CPI number is based on stuff I don't buy, or is ex-food and fuel, or they're just flat out liars.

And three percent year over year is 34% reduction in buying power in a decade. Simple enough math for me.

I'm wondering when I'm gonna show up at the QT and pick up a twelve pack only to get home to see it only sports eleven beers in it, at the same low price.

Or the normal 12 ounces being reduced to 10, just because.

But of course there will be no price increase whatsoever.

We're being stolen blind if we have faith in this currency, especially if we work, save, and do what we thought as kids was the right thing.

Just wait until the velocity of the money that is hiding in people's closets start to kick up, that will cause a small hiccup, of course that's just my opinion.

It costs 19.00 per dollar for me to buy the same quarters my Dad carried in his pocket when he was my age, you think they haven't fucked the shit out of us already?



sean

 

[long range newbie]

ok I personally don't like reading stuff like this then because I can get thinking too much about this thus making me buy stuff to prepare for a collapse but really i got enough bullets, powder and guns to have a small army, but the thing is I don't want to buy gold and silver to prep. even though I'm trying the stock market atm with silver and I got 10oz of it but its dropping atm which meaning its gonna rise a lot usually after the drop.

 

[E. Bryant]

Sorry if you thought it was directed at you.

No problem - we're good.

And CPI came out yesterday at 1.5% year over year.

That's the biggest fuckin bald faced lie I've ever heard.

I hear you there. And even if it was "only" 1.5%, that means that one's first dollar of earnings at age 16 is worth only 48 cents when they retire at age 65. "Modest" 3% inflation makes that $1 worth only 23 pennies over the same period of time.

Ever wonder why the little guy feels like he's always on a treadmill, running his ass off but never moving forward? This is a big reason why.

 

[cl60cruzer]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but still think there's time to get in eventually given our economic state and the fact that QE will eventually come home to roost.

Anyways, I'm stock savvy enough to be dangerous, but I know just what I've read online with gold/silver/metals and wanted to talk to someone that has hands-on experience with it and insights on what to do, what not to do, where to look, etc. Wanted to start talking to people that actually hedge/invest with metals before I learn the hard way.

Feel free to IM me and we can talk.

Thanks

Eureka Miner's Market Report
read this and google VAGP chart it will give you an idea when to jump in
http://seekingalpha.com/article/134...of-production-is-the-next-price-support-level
and this
http://www.kitco.com/ind/RichardBaker/aug222011.html

 

[Phil1]

Gold Rush From Dubai to Turkey Saps Supply as Premiums Jump
By Glenys Sim - Apr 30, 2013

Surging demand for gold from Dubai to Istanbul has pushed physical premiums in the region to levels not seen in years as the biggest price slump in three decades lures consumers, according to MKS (Switzerland) SA.

Premiums paid by wholesalers and bulk buyers in Dubai to secure a 1 kilogram bar of bullion are being quoted between $6 an ounce and $9 an ounce over the London cash price, said Frederic Panizzutti, global head of marketing and sales at the Swiss-based bullion refiner. That compares with about 50 cents before the rout, Panizzutti, also chief executive officer of MKS Precious Metals DMCC, said in an interview from Dubai.

Gold fell to the lowest in more than two years this month on speculation that the global economy is recovering, unleashing a purchasing frenzy among coin and jewelry buyers from China to the U.S. Consumer demand for jewelry, bars and coins in Turkey and the Middle East represented about 9.4 percent of the global total last year, according to the World Gold Council. Bars have been cleared from display in the souks, according to Gerry Schubert, head of precious metals at Emirates NBD PJSC.

“Physical demand has been tremendous in a way I haven’t seen for a number of years,” said Jeffrey Rhodes, global head of precious metals at INTL FCStone Inc., who’s worked in the industry for more than three decades. “The price collapse prompted a physical gold rush and the evidence of the extent of that is the prolonged period of high premiums that we’ve seen. Reports from the gold souks are that business is good,” Rhodes said from Dubai.
Bear Market

Prices plunged 14 percent in the two sessions to April 15, the most since 1983, and reached a low of $1,321.95 an ounce on April 16. Since then, spot bullion has rebounded 11 percent to $1,469.54 today as the surge in physical demand offset record outflows from exchange-traded products. Gold is still lower in April, heading for the worst monthly loss since December 2011 amid a bear market.

In Turkey, the fourth-biggest gold consumer last year, bullion on the Istanbul Gold Exchange traded at premiums of as much as $25 an ounce over the London spot price, something that hasn’t happened in “a very long time, we’re talking years,” said MKS’s Panizzutti.

“In the gold souk, you see some coins left over, but the investment bars are all gone from the windows,” said Schubert at Dubai-based Emirates NBD, the United Arab Emirates’ second- biggest bank by assets. Domestic retail prices moved to a premium of about $5 an ounce from a small discount before the rout, said Schubert, who has traded the metal since 1979.
Largest Center

Dubai is the largest gold-trading center in the Middle East, according to the Dubai Gold & Jewellery Group, an industry body that includes manufacturers and retailers. Trade was worth about $56 billion in 2011, up from $6 billion in 2003, according to data on the Dubai Multi Commodities Centre website.

Gold jumped 4.2 percent last week, the most in 15 months, as coin demand from mints in the U.S. and Australia to the U.K. soared. The volume for the benchmark contract on the Shanghai Gold Exchange surged to a record last week, while premiums to secure supplies in India jumped to five times the level before the slump. China and India are the world’s largest buyers.

Consumers in Singapore and Hong Kong are paying premiums of about $3 an ounce, compared with about $2 just after the rout, according to Ng Cheng Thye, head of precious metals at Standard Merchant Bank (Asia) Ltd.
‘More Patient’

“Physical metal is still not available,” Ng said by phone from Singapore. “The Chinese are on holiday these few days and at this level, the market might slow down a bit on the demand side. People are a little bit more patient now compared with two weeks ago, where everybody was rushing for physical metal.”

Chow Sang Sang Holdings International Ltd. said that jewelry sales at its 44 shops in Hong Kong more than doubled in the two weeks ended April 27 from a year ago. In China, financial markets are closed through May 1.

“It’s not just a Middle East story, it’s all across the globe,” said Panizzutti. “The fact that premiums are so high, it means that no one is making enough. We are producing 24 hours a day.”
Gold Rush From Dubai to Turkey Saps Supply as Premiums Jump - Bloomberg