I'm looking to purchase a gas mask that will fit under a US military issue Kevlar helmet. I have a budget of around $150 but wouldn't mind spending less. From what I've been reading it's best to get a new one in the wrap so it will be more reliable. NBC protection would be nice, i will probably get a full protective suit and decontamination setup eventually. Anyone have suggestions?
- Thread starter Creature
- Start date
Filter masks depend on charcoal sequestration to protect you from chemicals. Chem warfare agents are designed to kill you with tiny, tiny doses. You have very little time before the charcoal is overwhelmed and you start getting some % pass through. Bottom line, basic masks are not adequate for anything except running away....you need a PAPR minimum, SCBA preferred for really toxic environments like CBRN hot zones (IMO).
If you still want to buy something, get a unit that will adapt to basic 40mm NATO spec CBRN filters and keep them sealed so the carbon does not get exposed to the air. A lot of guys like the MSA millenium unit... I cannot get a good seal and don't think much of it. I ended up buying a $30 adaptor to my Scott SCBA mask (firefighter issue)....
You can buy this type of unit from any fire service supply store.... I supply this link for visual reference, I am not recommending this online vendor (have never dealt with them)
Scott AV3000 AV 3000 Facepiece Gas Mask - Approved Gas Masks
I would guess that some of the other fire service SCBA makers might also sell similar adapters.... the SCBA masks can often be found on ebay
some other maker brands... MSA, Survivair, Draeger, Interspiro
If you still want to buy something, get a unit that will adapt to basic 40mm NATO spec CBRN filters and keep them sealed so the carbon does not get exposed to the air. A lot of guys like the MSA millenium unit... I cannot get a good seal and don't think much of it. I ended up buying a $30 adaptor to my Scott SCBA mask (firefighter issue)....
You can buy this type of unit from any fire service supply store.... I supply this link for visual reference, I am not recommending this online vendor (have never dealt with them)
Scott AV3000 AV 3000 Facepiece Gas Mask - Approved Gas Masks
I would guess that some of the other fire service SCBA makers might also sell similar adapters.... the SCBA masks can often be found on ebay
some other maker brands... MSA, Survivair, Draeger, Interspiro
Wow! Have you gotten this info to DoD? The M-17A1 Mask is only good for running, and will not protect our SM (along with their other MOPP gear), in fact it might just allow them to run from the battle, and nothing more! All the BS that has been printed in the 3 series manuals must be crap! Thanks for the heads up, I hope someone SecDef or the POTUS read this and stop wasting our tax money on all that MOPP gear, start teaching our SM to run from chem attacks (once in MOPP4), and don't even think that the standard issue filters (the green ones) actually work as per FM3-9. BTW not all "Chem warfare agents are designed to kill you wiht tiny, tiny doses", this is a load of crap. Many agents are designed to deny an area of operation, blister agents would be a good example, many agents are designed as irritants such as CS (long term powder), and the list goes on and on, I don't know where you are getting this BS, but it is BS nonetheless.
To answer the original question, purchase a NATO mask, it will use NATO filters (screw ins), a mask alone is only part of the mission oriented protective posture MOPP, if you feel you are actually going to come up against an NBC threat-you'll need a lot more gear, a LOT more, a mask alone will help in a small way in a Nuclear contaminated area (the N in NBC), but that alone is suicide, Biological attacks-again a mask would help, but you again would need a lot more gear (The B in NBC), and for most Military chemical agents, a mask alone isn't going to get it done, you'll need a complete chem suit, booties, gloves mask and hood, and a way to decon in order to get out of this suit once out of area, what is it you're fearing? Cops throwing some OC or something like that, any NATO mask will be just fine and all you'll need.
Last edited:
Nothing is going to fit well under a helmet.
A level A suit that you can wear with an SCBA - a real one - is $10k
I would suggest getting some actual training on respiratory and chemical protection with what you are talking about.
A decon station ? In order to do this properly, you need multiple folks with adequate protection in order to decon and undress you without contaminating everyone else.
If they are using chemicals / biologicals / rad against you - run far away.
For quick egress from an area - MSA ultra elite with CBRN - get in the jeep and floor it.
A level A suit that you can wear with an SCBA - a real one - is $10k
I would suggest getting some actual training on respiratory and chemical protection with what you are talking about.
A decon station ? In order to do this properly, you need multiple folks with adequate protection in order to decon and undress you without contaminating everyone else.
If they are using chemicals / biologicals / rad against you - run far away.
For quick egress from an area - MSA ultra elite with CBRN - get in the jeep and floor it.
Here in North America, if such items are needed, are we not already going to be dealing with much larger problems? And I'm not saying that these items don't work. What I am saying, is that what are they going to do? Give someone 10 maybe 15 minutes, before the inevitable happens? God Forbid,,,,,,
Firefighters wear SCBA, sure. But that is for when they intentionally go INTO a burning building, and they are already suited up with a whole whack of gear. That, and they have a (pre-emptive?) egress route planned, AND their in contact with others nearby, AND they're generally not alone to begin with.
For dealing with NBC (not the tv station) and one is asking about a 'mask'.... I'm just thinking that there are Eleventy-Eight other pieces of the same puzzle that go with such to actually make the intent viable.
Or am I wrong and missing something?
Firefighters wear SCBA, sure. But that is for when they intentionally go INTO a burning building, and they are already suited up with a whole whack of gear. That, and they have a (pre-emptive?) egress route planned, AND their in contact with others nearby, AND they're generally not alone to begin with.
For dealing with NBC (not the tv station) and one is asking about a 'mask'.... I'm just thinking that there are Eleventy-Eight other pieces of the same puzzle that go with such to actually make the intent viable.
Or am I wrong and missing something?
You are correct. Operations in a chemical I.e. nerve agent environment require far more than a mask alone.
Now if the op is talking about cs or pepper agents then a mask would be sufficient
Now if the op is talking about cs or pepper agents then a mask would be sufficient
WWI, both sides used TONS of chemical agents, yes thousands of pounds, check your history books (ones not written by far left crazy fools, but actual history books), see how many were killed. Our (US Mil) current chem protective gear is the best that has ever been issued to any army, anywhere, any time. If properly employed, gives the SM HOURS of protection, not minutes (again I am talking about a full MOPP4 POSTURE), this statement is backed up by 10,000s of hours of testing and research by the best in the world. BTW the testing was done with LIVE agents, not theory. Again, a mask alone is very limited protection when dealing with military agents. While the military's of the world do use area denial weapons, usually irritants, but also blister agents, for the most part you'll need a full protective suit, as many military agents such as various nerve, and blood agents are skin permeable, in order to be able to "continue the fight". The idea that our NBC gear is designed to fail in very short amount of time is based on something other than the facts-maybe some kind of computer game, or comic book, but not the facts. Again, decontamination will be required, much more gear is involved, showers, shuffle boxes etc, this operation requires more fully trained personnel. If you're afraid of the police's "tear gas", a mask will work, but may I suggest, staying away from area's and activities where the LE is forced to use riot agents, this will be your best bet.
I'd like to add, CS is not a gas at all, this is often put out by those that don't know crap. CS is a solid, as smoke is a solid, the CS is suspended as a "smoke" due to heating, it will adhere to most things including your clothes (especially those parts of your clothes that are wet), carpet, etc., if CS has been employed in a building, once the "smoke is clear" and you enter the building, or tunnel etc., you will be stirring up the particles, a mask will still be needed. In the old days all SM went through a gas chamber charged with CS in basic training, it really gave you an appreciation of how well your mask worked, it also had the tendency to motivate you use your mask and hood when ever you were given the alarm-the smell of CS is something you will never forget if you've ever been "gassed".
I'd like to add, CS is not a gas at all, this is often put out by those that don't know crap. CS is a solid, as smoke is a solid, the CS is suspended as a "smoke" due to heating, it will adhere to most things including your clothes (especially those parts of your clothes that are wet), carpet, etc., if CS has been employed in a building, once the "smoke is clear" and you enter the building, or tunnel etc., you will be stirring up the particles, a mask will still be needed. In the old days all SM went through a gas chamber charged with CS in basic training, it really gave you an appreciation of how well your mask worked, it also had the tendency to motivate you use your mask and hood when ever you were given the alarm-the smell of CS is something you will never forget if you've ever been "gassed".
Last edited:
What exactly are your intentions with this stuff? More importantly do you have training or access to training that will help you employ all of the equipment correctly? What are your plans if any for decon? It's one thing to read up on this stuff and admire all of the toys but hazmat is very labor intensive and requires a LOT of training. Not only in the equipment but also recognizing the threat and how to mitigate it.
A lot of people think that just by strapping on a mask with an NBC filter that they're protected from everything and that is far from correct. Lot of nasty shit out there and you need to have a basic understanding of the different types of agents in order to best protect yourself.
Last edited:
My position is based on training I received as a Hazardous Material specialist, Firefighter, National Fire Academy alum (ALS hazmat), UMDNJ paramedic, FEMA USAR Hazmat Tech (NJTF-1 member), college minor in chem / toxicology (focus on organophosphates) and some training at Dugway. Some folks with decades working with lethal chemicals look to me as an expert...but I'm not, I'm just a guy still learning about the topic. I do have hundreds of hours logged, in IDLH environments, so I'm not in the 'theory only' group.
For purposes of this discussion, let's use Sarin, a relatively primitive form of nerve agent, HUNDREDS of times less potent than other forms developed in the 1950s... and probably improved even more since then...
CDC - The Emergency Response Safety and Health Database: Nerve Agent: SARIN (GB) - NIOSH
The US Army actually supplied a Material Safety Data Sheet for this product...
Riegle Report - Lethal Nerve Agent GB
please scroll down to the section entitled
RESPIRATORY PROTECTION:
Concentration Respiratory Protective Equipment
less than
0.0001 mg/m3 A full face piece, chemical canister, air purifying
protective mask will be onhand for escape.
It sure looks to me like they are saying that when you have ONE TEN THOUSANDTH of a MILLIGRAM per cubit meter of air, you need a filter mask to run away. It takes 65 milligrams to make ONE grain of powder...so we are talking about a dose that is 650,000 times smaller than a grain (as in what we use to reload).
BTW- when I was in my third year of medic school (mid 1990s), I was assigned to assist the Pharm D in the regional trauma center with a victim that had been exposed to a decent dose of Carbamate....this is a pesticide component which is in the same family of chemicals as nerve agents... we were sedating him with Benzodiazepine while dosing him with Atropine to try to control the SLUDGE symptoms (waiting on 2-PAM which was not on site)... I believe the cumulative dose before we saw positive effects was somewhere around 45 mg. If I remember correctly, the antidote kits the military were issued at the time contained 1 mg auto injectors...(this kinda puts things into perspective)
MOPP4 + nerve agent antidote kits will save you from some level of exposure to Nerve agent....but will not provide hours of protection in high concentration environs....you will need to run to live.
Last edited:
Wow that is really something for sure. I could list the hundreds of Ph.D.s that have worked in and for the DoD, and list thousands of tests, and research papers written by real experts-those that classify, develop, identify agents, along with the development of protective equipment, but I will not do so here, for anyone interested can spend 2 minutes (max) on a search, and find thousands of pieces of research done on the subject. Not just by U.S. scientists, but also those from NATO countries, England (and the "empire") is a leader, but also former Soviet documents. BTW the Soviet Army trained with live agents once in a while, and were willing to accept a few casualties (not due to poor equipment, but dumb asses that didn't pay attention in training). I will stand with the real experts on the subject, American NBC Gear issued to our SM, is the best in the world, it will not fail after a few minutes, and you need not run like a pissing sissy because someone detects that a gas has been used. Stick to your training, your gear will save your life, you can continue the fight, at a slower speed of course as you will have to deal with MOPP4 conditons, but let there be no beating around the bush, no ambiguity at all, OUR gear works very well, and will work for hours on end, in a contaminated environment (Nuclear is different). If I sold fire fighting gear to Fire Depts around the nation, and didn't mind making a few donations to various politicians, and unions, of course I would want them to believe only I had the answers, and only my gear would work, regardless of cost. But in real life, our NBC gear is first rate, our decon equipment is first rate, the only thing that has been behind the power curve in the U.S. military has been training. The lack of proper training was make very evident during the Gulf War, not that the equipment didn't or wouldn't work, but troops and leaders were not fully trained up on the gear. Again, look at WWI and how many tons of agents were used by both sides, at very fixed targets (in trenches), and their mobility was generally horse drawn, or on foot), the very primitive gear worked fairly well in those days-those that died didn't use their masks, or have their masks, or were hit will agents like mustard, mask or not, if you get him with mustard (a liquid) your going die. If I am wrong, please contact the pentagon, let them know of your expertise, and lets get rid of all this well tested, tried and true equipment, along with our fighting doctrine. We need to buy a pile of fire fighting masks, and learn to run from the fight as soon as any chemical agent is discovered, you may receive a real high award from Obama, as you're about to save countless lives-you know better than all the military experts! I'm smelling a Noble Prize!
LOL. They clearly state "The permissible airborne exposure concentration for GB for an 6 hour workday or a 40 hour work week is an 8 hour time weight average (TWA) of 0.0001 mg/m3." If you had bothered to read this, you would realize that when the concentration is 0.0001 mg/m3 you can SAFELY work in the area with NO EQUIPMENT for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, i.e. if that concentration exists, you will suffer no harm by working full-time in that area.
The part you quote about the mask "being on hand for escape" is a precautionary measure in case the levels rise, you can then strap on the mask and run like hell. Sort of like saying "while cooking on an open-range, a fire extinguisher will be on hand." Not because there will be any need for it, but because in the unlikely even of a rife, you'd want to have one.
The US military understands the capability of it's issue kit, including it's limitations.
http://www.gordon.army.mil/SAMC/Downloads/NBCProtectionFM3-4.pdf
the good stuff starts around page 80
good luck guys.
http://www.gordon.army.mil/SAMC/Downloads/NBCProtectionFM3-4.pdf
the good stuff starts around page 80
good luck guys.
Last edited:
All you SHTF Preppers if the gas falls all you need is this:
Just for those that actually like to know the truth, Avon systems produces the new military mask, the M50, the FM53, states on page 6, under technical data, mustard (H), Sarin (GB), Soman (GB), and VX, the mask and filters have a 36hour requirement, this mask exceeds the requirement. This new mask has also met the European standards, certification. Think about it for 1 minute, this mask was only 1/10 as good as it is, you would still have 3.6 hours, only those that are prone to pissing their pants and running like complete cowards would say 3.6 hours isn't enough, "Someone said the word gas! RUN-RUN"!!! Thankfully our military has and continues to provide very good, the best in the world as a matter of fact, protective equipment for our SM, our gear works, and does not require one to panic, shit their pants, and run. With the proper training on the gear, once the SM is in MOPP 4, they can continue the fight, no panic necessary. Now a fireman using some fancy gear purchased with the locals money may know far better than all that have dedicated their lives to protecting our troops in a NBC condition. Virtually all our filters and mask designs are a result of years of research, often with the finest Universities in the world, MIT comes to mind, along with our National Labs, Sandia, Oak Ridge, Lawrance Livermore, etc. Our gear is first class, along with our troops that use it. For the "experts" that know more than all that have developed our gear, your wasting your time trying to convince me how great your knowledge is, you are doing the country a great disservice by not presenting your super smartness to the Pentagon, and save us all, looks like only you can do it!!
Last edited:
On 9/11/01, I was walking into the WTC site as part of the first due USAR tech rescue team, with M8 paper on my gear. The team that would have been first in (NYTF-1) had lost so many guys in the towers that they could not muster. The call for help had come from the CC in the towers and it was no longer there. There was an expectation that chemical weapons would be involved since they were used in the first WTC attack on the 1990s. We 'cowards' made entry to the scene and conducted operations continuously.
Masks operating with activated charcoal are impacted by concentration (something you leave out of every comment).... perhaps the M50 is rated for 36 hours at some predefined level... that level would not be "high" concentration (let's say > 10x the IDLH).
You have yet to claim to have done anything...no doubt, you and Chuck Norris have been busy in the middle east since 01, but go ahead, entertain me with your experiences actually wearing the gear and operating in an IDLH chem environment...or is the sum total of your life experience focused on your ability to be an ass on the internet.
Masks operating with activated charcoal are impacted by concentration (something you leave out of every comment).... perhaps the M50 is rated for 36 hours at some predefined level... that level would not be "high" concentration (let's say > 10x the IDLH).
You have yet to claim to have done anything...no doubt, you and Chuck Norris have been busy in the middle east since 01, but go ahead, entertain me with your experiences actually wearing the gear and operating in an IDLH chem environment...or is the sum total of your life experience focused on your ability to be an ass on the internet.
First off, if you knew anything about the M50, which you do not, you would not have made some of the stupid statements you have, the concentration levels of various agents will have an effect on any filtration system, to include the filters for the M50, however; your complete lack of military NBC is evident, as every SM knows, the M50 has a sight window, it "tells" you what percentage of the filter is left. I'm very familiar with M8 paper and decon kits, and M8 chem alarms, etc. etc., very familiar. Just so I get this straight, if your chem paper had change to a purple, you would have unassed the area, screaming, gas!! As you only had a very few minutes before your filters failed? Your stupid assertion that military grade MOPP gear isn't up to the task, is just that stupid, not backed up by anything, other than your a fireman, and have some fire fighting masks etc. Military MOPP gear works, works very well, and allows the SM to continue with the mission, slap shot-don't really need a google in order to discuss NBC operations, or gear. I must admit, there has been some new gear come on line in the last few years, but it is evolutionary, not revolutionary, it works even better. In real chemical attacks, the current gear (or similar gear used by other military personnel) has worked, thousands and thousands of "field tests" if you will-only for real. Not to mention our own US development includes 10,000 or more volunteers, in real life testing. It looks like only a couple of idiots believe our military leadership (and most military's leadership from around the world) actually spends training time/money on equipment that doesn't work, or doesn't work as promised, not a few minutes, but many hours. There appears a couple of idiots actually believe our leadership is willing to condemn all the warfighters to death, rather than admit that going to MOPP4 won't protect you but for a few minutes and you'll die trying to continue the mission. A few idiots have smoked far too much crack, or there mama's stayed drunk and took drugs while she was pregnant with them, as this ranks with some of the most stupid shit I read in a while! United States Military Issue gear, works, works well, as does NATO's, it works as advertised. I hope only a couple of idiots actually believe they need to piss their pants and run as soon as someone yells "gas". BTW, Edgewood is only a couple of hundred miles from NJ, may I suggest you make a call and take the drive, I'm sure there are a couple of guys there that would be anxious to hear how they are screwing up, and how you can set them straight, the Chem Command is very open to experts-your would be very valuable to say the least!
Last edited:
Back in the 80s and 90s, MOPP gear had an exposure limit. I forget what it was. The m117 mask also had an exposure limit.
As a side note, I have a 2 Pam chloride injector stached in my ass right meow. I also take morning antropene bumps shot directly in my peehole, can never be too careful
So, basically, you have no experience to speak of, don't really know too many facts, and are gonna keep repeating your same childish taunts.
BTW - I reread the whole thread looking for even one comment that said the US Mil was wrong, foolish, incorrect, etc.... not one person in this entire thread has gone there. The only discrepancy is with your impression of issue equipment...which you apparently do not and will not be using in the present or future.
The original poster was simply looking for advice on a mask under $150, can you get him an M50 for that price?
You are 100% sir, I believe you mean M17A1, but you're right on. The filters, for those of us that remember came in two different color code, gold and green, gold was training, and green-combat. The army loved gold, as they were much cheaper, but somewhere along the line, they got rid of them, as we all knew they'd get mixed up sooner or later. The filters on an M17, along with the entire chem suit, were good for 4 hours, in a contaminated environment, that would be what was called contaminated with military strength. The leadership was responsible establishing decon stations, DS-2 for those vehicles that needed it and could use it, and the setting up of the super tropical bleach boxes (I'm real sure they don't use this stuff now, but it worked). At the decon stations, fresh filters and suits etc. were to be issued, after the showers etc., we had tents, I'm sure they've upgrades to mobile units, but they worked. There was no need then, or now to run in some direction, who knows pissing your pants because someone yelled gas, or a smoke grenade went off and someone yelled gas, etc.. In the day, you went to MOPP4 if necessary, relied on your chem alarm, everybody put some m9 paper on, m8 was used to check any liquids in the area, and you continued your mission. The suggestion that troops in mass should run like hell from their assigned positions, give up the fight, because someone yells gas, is the result of someone being gassed! The New masks have an exposure limit, as all the filters do, better than the old M17's they screw in from outside the mask, and from all accounts make it easier to breath. If you ever spend time in MOPP4, you know how hard it was to breath, and how hot it was. The gear worked then and works better now.
medicjim, quote,"Filter masks depend on charcoal sequestration to protect you from chemicals. Chem warfare agents are designed to kill you with tiny, tiny doses. You have very little time before the charcoal is overwhelmed and you start getting some % pass through. Bottom line, basic masks are not adequate for anything except running away....you need a PAPR minimum, SCBA preferred for really toxic environments like CBRN hot zones (IMO)."
Okay you win, you're right, I hope our command structure listens to your sage advice, and changes all military doctrine and unit SOP for a chem attack, or for operating in chem environment. Thanks for the info, you're the man!
Okay you win, you're right, I hope our command structure listens to your sage advice, and changes all military doctrine and unit SOP for a chem attack, or for operating in chem environment. Thanks for the info, you're the man!
Everything I wrote in the above quote is absolutely factual. When you apply them in the context they were presented by the OP, employing a <$150 mask, no splash protection and no training....I consider it absolutely sound and correct advice.
I am very pleased that I won the argument... that was my whole agenda here...to spend an hour of my life arguing with an ass in reward for trying to help out a stranger with a basic question. Maybe you can go find a way to twist someone else's well meaning response into another storm of bullshit and continue to screw up Lowlight's otherwise useful web forum.
medicjim, I stated you were the man! What more do you want me to say? I guess you want a response, okay? In the context of the OP asking about a gas mask $150 range. If that is all he had, no hood, no suit, no gloves, no boots, just the mask, I would give him the following advice: Put on your mask, walk do not run, you will NOT have a very good field of vision, and if you wear glasses, you will not have those on, take your time being careful not to trip, as chem agents are often delivered in droplets form, you get it on you, you will most likely die, or blister, in any case you will be a casualty. Your filters are not going to stop working, don't worry about that. It will be much harder to breath wearing a mask than you are use to, if you start breathing really hard, you stand a good chance of fogging up your eye lens, it will already be hard to see, you don't want that. Take care not rubbing up against anything at all, and walk on hard surface, sidewalk or hard stand if possible, grass an hold a lot of liquid, you want to do all you can to stay dry. Again do not panic, your filter is not going to quit on you, it will last for many hours. Rest when necessary, the chances are not good of you having a correct canteen or other device full of water to allow you to drink even if the mask is so equipped (such as the M17A1), you most likely will not have any water, don't get your self in any more medical trouble by lack of water. If you can determine the prevailing wind direction, you may be able to find a direction that will take you away from the attacked area, with the least amount of walking. Avoid walking under things that may drip, if they appear to be wet, this includes trees, once you feel you are well out of the area and it is safe to remove the mask, stop and observe the area, are there other people without masks? Animals that appear okay? If not, stay masked as long as practical. Don't worry about the filters they will last longer than you can walk without water/and have to labor to breath through filters. Again take your time do not trip/ thus rubbing up against the ground, or breaking something, calm thoughtful egress will be your best bet. Regarding $150.00-Israeli Masks are around $30.00(with new filter), and new filters around$25.00(screw ons) often less, having a military grade mask for $150.00 is easy, will it be the latest and greatest? No, but it will work just fine. Spend your extra $$ on a chemical hood/ and chem suit. Remember, your mask and filter will last a long time, be calm, walk don't run, don't trip, don't rub up against anything, think about your route.
But once again medicjim you are the man, I hope the response you wanted from me was up to your standards.
But once again medicjim you are the man, I hope the response you wanted from me was up to your standards.
Last edited:
I forgot to mention I keep a 256 kit in the inner pocket of my LARPER costume, I'm a warlock ninja so my gandolf robes conceal it nicely
Hey "PORKCHOP" you on here to stur up shit you know nothing about??? I see you like to troll around the hide causing unnecessary trouble and add nothing. I'll have a talk with your mom.
These discussions crack me up. Having actually worn MOPP for weeks at a time I can tell you it is a major PITA. Not to mention anything about the detection agents that are needed to even identify the threat. If you want a basic gas mask for CS or whatever then go for it. If you think you are going to buy a full MOPP set to protect you and your family as you carry out "wolverine" attacks on the invading force, you have been watching too many movies. Save your money on MOPP gear and use it for food and water supplies. If someone wants to attack you with some chem agent, unless you are constantly monitoring for it, you will be dead before you can figure out how to get the filter out of the can.
+2 what hairball said.....
Pawprint2 likes this
Hey Conan, why don't you go eat a bag of dicks.
Last edited:
+1, What he said. Been there done that have the T-shirt with the hood on it.
Gotta give this a +3. MOPP 4 sucks. It's a whole logistical system that breaks down without all the components in place.
I have a newer mask . . . more for CS gas. We have 40mm. cs gas grenades. The problem Is . . . What do you do with them? Can't shoot them for fun. Although as long as I have my mask and a change of clothes, someone else is welcome to. I might get a laugh.
Back to working, fighting in a chemical environment . . . The soviets had a different philosophy and were set up to run massive Decon stations for tanks and equipment. I think they had turbine powered filed wash systems. It's been many years. I wasn't an NBC NCO, I just hung out with them. I am also friends with a current NBC NCO who is in recruiting right now. I'll ask him about the new masks.
Last edited:
I do industrial hygiene for a living at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation.
Something else to think on is that unless you have a portable GC/MS, you may not know that you are in an environment that you need protection until it is too late. We use some of the most advanced equipment you can get where I work, and things are many times difficult to identify from samples of stationary sources, let alone from a source where you won't know what or if any agent was applied. Rad is pretty easy if you have a GM and a PAM. Maybe even a CP. Chemicals are more elusive.....
Something else to think on is that unless you have a portable GC/MS, you may not know that you are in an environment that you need protection until it is too late. We use some of the most advanced equipment you can get where I work, and things are many times difficult to identify from samples of stationary sources, let alone from a source where you won't know what or if any agent was applied. Rad is pretty easy if you have a GM and a PAM. Maybe even a CP. Chemicals are more elusive.....
Similar threads
Sidearms & Scatterguns Auto vs OU? Where to compromise on field shotgun?
