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Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

cundiff5535

cundiff5535

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 25, 2012
127
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Mokena IL
Hey Guys, its been a few since I last posted. I do ALOT of reloading and selling. Brass is where most of my sales come in but, this isnt the place for all that info.

I typically get 10,000-50,000 cases per trip to my local contact and have had it with regular vibrating and walnut tumbling. The brass I get is from an outside range, its filthy and it only takes my media 10 batches or so be be totally contaminated dirty as heck. Once this happens, the brass that I tumble is very dull and almost looks like it needs to be tumbled longer. I know this isnt the case as I typically run the brass in a Dillon tumbler and run it for 6-8 hours. Since I have 2 tumblers going at the same time, I can compare the two batches (they both come out the same. I use a cap full of Cabelas brass shine/cleaner, a Bounce dryer sheet, and a few caps full of Turtle wax. This does nothing to the brass... Most people that do this swear that the brass is ridiculously shiny... not mine.

So with that said, I started looking into wet tumbling and reading up on it. Once I saw how much brass the standard Thumbler did, I realized that it wasnt going to work out as it would take WAY to long to tumble the amount of brass I receive on a regular basis. I read the thread and idea about the gentleman who used the two chlorine bucket system and it seemed smart! I thought I was going to go that exact route and if it was easy enough, I would build multiple machines and sell them at local gun shows. After exhausting all my heating and air conditioning contacts (figured I could get motors for free). EVERYONE of my contacts just threw out at least 5-10 motors each... Grrr, I was about two weeks late on my idea.

So, that took me to looking for a motor to construct one homemade SS media tumbler capable of doing large amounts of brass at one time.

After researching the idea a lot more and seeing that between materials and time, I would have around 70 bucks or so into the project (can be done a lot cheaper if you find a "deal" on parts) I got impatient and started thinking more about it.

Looked at what Harbor Freight had in store and found this....

cement_zps3c043c1b.jpg


With a 25% off coupon and a nice guy in the store, I got it for 100.00 out the door!

I am not sure if this is going to work but, I do not see why it wouldn't.

Since I own my own custom body shop, I am going to spray in Gorilla Rubber lining and I should have a HUGE SS Media tumbler capable of doing a few 5 gallon buckets at a time.

Now, here is where I am getting worried. How much media do I need? Where do I buy it at? What is the "formula" of water, soap, brass, Lemmon Shine, and SS Media?

I would prefer to buy the SS pins locally from a Menards or Home Depo but, I have no clue if they sell anything like that. Ideas thoughts?

I also have an old dryer that is at my shop.... I am planning on throwing all the tumbled media into a mesh bag and drying it like that for 30-40 mins? Thoughts on this idea?

Anything else I should think about when doing this?

Help, thoughts!

Thanks guys,
Bobby C


Here is the link to the Mixer I picked up just incase you all need specs for what I should mix for the "formula"...

Cement Mixer Linkie!
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I sent you a PM with some info.

There is no need to dry the ss media, just leave it in mixer or in a bucket. Just dry the brass.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Wait till you see the SS media price. You need to get it wholesale.

But I see some problems here. You will need a SHIT LOAD of SS media to do that big a job. How are you going to separate that much brass from the media? I guess I'd scoop it all back into buckets. Or that mixer probably tilts so maybe.... Something to pour Into I dunno.

I use the separator that was for dry media method and it works great. Fill it 2/3rds to the top and spin the cage. Rinses and separates at the same time. Then I take brass and rinse again in separate water. But for your volume I dunno.

You'll want large cantainers of rinse water. Nice that you have a shop you'll need spilling space. Water is heavy to move around and I get enough spillage just shuffling water for the Thumler's.

Get some good magnets!! You're going to have pins all over I can just see it. I have a telescoping type with strong 1/2" magnet on the end. I wish it was larger.

If the mixer has a paddle I'd remove it.

So just my initial thoughts without thinking a lot yet.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Hey fellas, I just want to chime in and show some of the findings I had today. So I set up the cement mixer, I used about 1/3 cup of Dawn and a 40 cap full of Lemi-Shine.

I emptied a 5 gallon bucket of 40 brass into the mixer tossed in the dawn and lemi shine and turned it on. I then started to add water (Hose water which was ice cold) to the mixer and turned the mixer so that I could see the brass start tumbling and aggressively rolling around. I used a little more water at that point... really filled it until water started to come out of the hole on the mixer... and suds started foaming everywhere. I let the load (which was filthy) go for around 35-40 mins (max)

End result was pretty impressive for no media or cap on the machine. I was also very impressed that I was able to clean a full 5 gallon bucket of brass in just about 35 mins.... far less time that my Dillon vibrating tumblers could have. Here are some pics of the bucket I did today...

I will be updating this thread as I am making a cap for the mixer, I am also getting some media for it... I am not even sure I need to do anything else but, I figure what the heck... why not.

What do you guys think?

Just finished tumbling....
IMAG0242_zpsb0e7446d.jpg



Clean Brass!!!
IMAG0243_zpsdf944ae3.jpg
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

As some added info that I think a few of you all maybe asking...

I understand that when I use SS media, it will weigh this down a lot. I figured, since I just did 1 full 5 gallon bucket I can live with half of a 5 gallon full... + the media.

Even if it takes an hour or so, Im still way ahead of the game on it. As far as the motor... I have given this some thought and figured... for 120.00 bucks, I got the machine with motor. I am going to run this thing till it takes a crap. I can then "upgrade" the motor if it goes out. Its not like I do not have access to getting a nicer one if this breaks down. The electrical folks that I employee can just wire it up and the rest can be fabricated or made to work!

I have been asked about the inside of the brass, it is clean but, its definitely perfect like it would be with the media... Since this was my first load, I didnt expect it to be though!

I will add that I did not deprime these as I was not sure how this was going to turn out. Since I use a 650, the deprime is just part of my sequence. I do have to say, I have these laying out to see just how well I can get these to dry. I know depriming is make drying easier but, I honestly went into today as a total test. Since I do not shoot 40, have way more than I know what to do with, and have no real use for them... other than possibly selling them... I really didnt care if they got messed up. They are my test batch:)

As far as separating these once I use the media... I have a rinse box (the pictured blue box)... it has a few very small holes that drains all water out and allow for further rinsing. I figured from there I would use Dillons large media separator? I can then dry the cases in a drying box that I have made and make sure that the SS Media is dried off with a towel etc. I know its not a one shot deal as I will have to do 3 loads in Dillons large separator to get the whole load done..

The current load I did today are laying out dying now so once they are dry, Ill run a swab into a few of them to see if they are truly dry or there is some water still inside. That will let me know what more needs to be done.

Thoughts?
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I've seen excellent results from someone who tried just using copper washed 17c BB's thrown into the tumbler. It didn't get the corners of the primer pockets but it got everything inside and out other than that sparkling.

I'm impressed how well the brass cleaned up without any media in there, that's great.

If you want to make sure that there's no water left you can use a glass baking tray full of cases and turn your oven to "warm"

Give it an hour or so, the brass will be totally dry and there's no danger of causing damage to the brass, kitchen ovens don't have the capability to hurt it without days of negligent max heat exposure.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

interesting idea with the BB's... I am betting its probably much cheaper than SS Media as well... there are definitely a lot of things to think about moving forward.

I have a family friend who works at a steel mill... he told me they throw out SS Rod all the time. He is going to cut up some of the stuff they are going to toss... He said he could get me around 25 lbs or so. Ill probably give that a whirl in the next few weeks as well (basically when I get it from him).

Looking forward to more replies here!
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

In the SS media thread there was a guy who used a cement mixer. Talked about the media not working with the drum pointed up and changing out the metal pads for plastic. What is your plan to make a cap? If I could figure that out it?that way it could turn on its side
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Here are a few pics... Now that the brass is dry its looking pretty good.

IMAG0245_zps07a7ea4a.jpg


IMAG0244_zps982b114c.jpg
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jrb572</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the SS media thread there was a guy who used a cement mixer. Talked about the media not working with the drum pointed up and changing out the metal pads for plastic. What is your plan to make a cap? If I could figure that out it?that way it could turn on its side </div></div>

JRB, you are absolutely correct there is no way this would work if it was left upright....

For this first batch, I just turned my on its side with no cap.... Like I said, no media, no cover.... just brass, water, dawn and lemi shine. I had turned it on and then moved until the brass was almost coming out (non did). The dirty suds came out but the longer it tumbled the cleaner the suds got and the cleaner the brass got. If I had a top/lid on it, I think it would have been even better but, I dont think that it would be 100% necessary.

As far as the plan for a cap, I am still thinking about a few ideas... when I come up with one, Ill make sure I share it in the thread...
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Looks great! May use less dawn & lemishine, I found that less lemishine is better. That thing looks awesome though, wish i had that & a truck load of brass to run! As far as drying goes, you could build a large box from plywood with a fan & light bulb, use chicken wire in it to lay the brass on. Hour or so it it and its dry. I use a toolbox with a light bulb, fan & chicken wire. Works great. Anyway, looks great & keep us posted.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Op, have you considered using a liquid detergent meant for a dishwashing machine? I'm pretty sure those are meant for less suds. I only know that because I used the regular dish soap once as a kid and spent the rest of the evening mopping the overflow suds off the kitchen floor.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: country888</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks great! May use less dawn & lemishine, I found that less lemishine is better. That thing looks awesome though, wish i had that & a truck load of brass to run! As far as drying goes, you could build a large box from plywood with a fan & light bulb, use chicken wire in it to lay the brass on. Hour or so it it and its dry. I use a toolbox with a light bulb, fan & chicken wire. Works great. Anyway, looks great & keep us posted.</div></div>

Thanks for the comment! I think I am going to go with less lemishine and less soap but, both bottles that I am currently using are cracked... so they are leaking everyplace. I am just tossing the stuff in as I figure I might as well use it then it just go to was on the floor.

Next batch will be more regulated on what I am using!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: knight_dive</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Op, have you considered using a liquid detergent meant for a dishwashing machine? I'm pretty sure those are meant for less suds. I only know that because I used the regular dish soap once as a kid and spent the rest of the evening mopping the overflow suds off the kitchen floor. </div></div>

I have not thought of detergent... sensible thought though. Maybe Ill try it out here soon!
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Ok, I want to provide some feedback on what I did yesterday... I tumbled each batch for 35 mins.... That being said, I did roughly 25,000 empties from 2:30pm-6:00pm! Not a bad tumbling day at all I will say!

Here are step by step pics of what I did and the end results.... even though this is pic heavy, I could have took a lot more but, I think it would have been overkill (This is already overkill).

Before I post the pics though, I want to say, I think its interesting as you will see in my pictures... I am still not using stainless media... the brass itself is acting as the media would and agitating against itself.

Brass... this is 38 speical brass, most of the brass looks similar to this:

IMAG0253_zpsc13c6886.jpg


45acp Brass dirty as heck:

IMAG0254_zps41824875.jpg


More brass that is not as bad:

IMAG0255_zpsf0d90ba3.jpg




Filling up the mixer... Water:

IMAG0256_zps62e1f755.jpg


Dawn and Lemishine:

IMAG0258_zps2f1ae266.jpg


Brass into the mixer:

IMAG0259_zps994953b3.jpg

IMAG0262_zps4d889c27.jpg



Brass in almost totally covered and ready to go!

IMAG0263_zps60c4112c.jpg


Starting to mix:

IMAG0264_zps45239cef.jpg


Fully mixing:

IMAG0265_zps3eedb3fb.jpg


 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

35 mins later....

IMAG0249_zps044f3e7d.jpg


Into my rinsing tub....

IMAG0250_zpsc71f6368.jpg



Drying table with heat lamp... Bling Bling!!

IMAG0251_zps668fd3a2.jpg

 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Nice! Are you having any issues getting the media out of the cases?
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

That is impressive, looks like its able to handle just about every piece of brass you can throw at it.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice! Are you having any issues getting the media out of the cases? </div></div>

I am not using any media... so far its been brass, dawn dish soap, and a cap full of lemishine!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gijoetx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is impressive, looks like its able to handle just about every piece of brass you can throw at it.</div></div>

It has definitely been worth the 120 dollars of money I have put into it!
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I've often wondered what it would look like without the pin's and a cement mixer for a tumbler.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Is it getting the primer pockets clean too?
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it getting the primer pockets clean too? </div></div>

I am not depriming my brass before I tumble... from everything I read though, if the brass is deprimed it should... especially if you actually use the SS media. Remember this is basically soap, lemishine, and water I am using... nothing else!

At this point, I am not sure if its worth depriming everything before I actually tumble. Since I load everything on a progressive press, the deprime is part of my sequence...
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I think I know where I am heading this weekend. Harbor Freight!!!
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sasquatch98226</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I know where I am heading this weekend. Harbor Freight!!! </div></div>

^^ that's awesome.... Let me know his or turns out or if you have any questions
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I use Cascade automatic dishwashing detergent. My results have been that it cleans the cases better than Lemi-Shine and Dawn, it does not foam, and it like all automatic dishwashing detergents, it is formulated to prevent dirt from re-depositing.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I had thought about going that route but I just don't process enough brass to come ahead. Nice job
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Now I'm wondering if the SS media is even required in a liquid tumbler. I'd love to see just how well this SS media-less method cleans out the small primer pockets.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

For those of you using a wet cleaning process on the smaller scale, a cheap dehydrator with stackable trays will hold around 500 223 brass, and have it dry in under half an hour. Granted I only do it without primers so I don't know how long it takes if you leave them in.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: arterg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use Cascade automatic dishwashing detergent. My results have been that it cleans the cases better than Lemi-Shine and Dawn, it does not foam, and it like all automatic dishwashing detergents, it is formulated to prevent dirt from re-depositing.</div></div>

Cant wait to try this!! Obviously with people going crazy, Its been a little rougher getting brass... less people are shooting where I am as well so, I have been light on brass... I typically don't like to tumble until I have at least 20,000 cases... I am no where near that right now.

I have a ton of new great ideas though... Cant wait for the net batch!
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Guess sometimes less is more! Nice job on thread and good looking brass!!
Wish I had a source that I could get brass from like you do.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I'm a tad concerned about the Cascade. I know you aren't supposed to put fine knives in the dishwasher because the soaps designed for that use are too harsh and will eat away at the metal. I know that's true because I had an ex once that kept putting some nice knives I bought her into the dishwasher. Eventually they all started showing pits along the cutting edge. They ended up looking like ragged saw blades there was so much metal eaten away. Whether brass is immune from this is beyond me, but just thought I'd mention it in case you were gradually weakening your cases without knowing it.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldTex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a tad concerned about the Cascade. I know you aren't supposed to put fine knives in the dishwasher because the soaps designed for that use are too harsh and will eat away at the metal. I know that's true because I had an ex once that kept putting some nice knives I bought her into the dishwasher. Eventually they all started showing pits along the cutting edge. They ended up looking like ragged saw blades there was so much metal eaten away. Whether brass is immune from this is beyond me, but just thought I'd mention it in case you were gradually weakening your cases without knowing it.</div></div>

AS long as cascade does not include ammonia or borax (both which are known to have issues with brass) it should be OK. I'd have to look at the chemicals to know better though.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

I checked with a friend who is a PhD chemist, and I reviewed the ingredients for Cascade listed by Procter & Gamble on its website. My friend advised me that there is nothing in Cascade that can weaken or otherwise damage brass cases. I too found nothing that concerned me.
 
Re: Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help....

Ketchup I have two answers to your question about how clean brass merely tumbled in detergent and water comes out. One, check the following link of about a man from Germany who “cleans” his brass in an ordinary washing machine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF5B6DkxXH8. Two, I pre-tumble my brass in Cascade and water only. I then drain the dirty water, add fresh water and stainless steel media, and tumble them again. My results are that after the pre-tumble the brass is 85 - 90% or so clean including the primer pockets. After the second tumble all my cases are spotless.
 
Skipping stainless media would definitely be interesting. Anyone get similar results in washing machine? Still not using any media in the big mixer?
 
I purchased one of those cement mixers a couple of years ago before I started using the stainless media on a smaller scale. I would polish 1000 rounds or so at a time with corn cob or walnut hull whatever I had and it did a great job. After using the thumbler and stainless media for short runs I considered using that in my mixer, I even bought an extra 5 lbs of stainless pins just in case. I put a few gallons of water in the mixer with nothing else and it leaked like a tea strainer! I figured I would need to take it all apart and silicone all the joints and bolt holes before trying again, I was also worried about the painted interior. Are you guys just keeping it all stock as it comes? You replace the paddles? How many pounds of pins per batch? Does the paint wear off? I'd like to know a little more, it seems like the thing to do and should work great for large batches.
 
2Shots I think we are all waiting for the adventerous types to try it and post their results. You should be the guinea pig and let us know how it goes!
 
Well I might throw 10 lbs of pins, cascade and 1000 rds of something and see how it goes! Ill let you know. Nothing ventured nothing gained!
 
We are using a Kobalt brand large cement mixer with a polymer drum that we got from Lowes. It was about 300. We use 1/2 to 3/4 of a 5 gal bucket of brass, 1/2 bucket hot water, 2 oz dawn and about 2 capfuls of Lemishine.
Works great so far.
 
Scimitar said:
We are using a Kobalt brand large cement mixer with a polymer drum that we got from Lowes. It was about 300. We use 1/2 to 3/4 of a 5 gal bucket of brass, 1/2 bucket hot water, 2 oz dawn and about 2 capfuls of Lemishine.
Works great so far.
Click to expand...

So you aren't using any other polishing media, just the brass and the soap and water?
 
So how much brass can the small thumler do? I dont think I need the cement mixer hahaha.
 
dlouie87 said:
So how much brass can the small thumler do? I dont think I need the cement mixer hahaha.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you use for caselube. If you use the lanolin-based lubes like Dillon lube, the Thumler Model B will do 100 pretty well. The tumbler will actually hold 300 or so, but if you stuff them in there, there won't be enough soap water solution to emulsify all the greasy lube, and you'll wind up with dirty water and a nasty greasy sheen all over your brass.

If you use liquid dish detergent (dawn, ivory, ajax, etc) as caselube, you can pack that tumbler to the gills and it'll come out great. That means about 300pcs or so of 308.
 
First, sorry for reviving an old thread. Figured this would be preferable to starting a new one.

I recently got a 1.25 cu ft Harbor Freight cement mixer for wet tumbling with stainless steel pins. My observations were that the paint was flaking off the inside of the drum, and the media didn't tumble at all without at least one paddle installed.
And then the motor died.

HF didn't have another small mixer in stock, so they gave me the 3.5 cu ft mixer as an even exchange. I ran it a few minutes with media/brass without paddles (it didn't tumble), and then a few minutes with one paddle. The paddle swept the top layer off (small batch), but most of the brass/media just slid under the paddle. So I sprayed the inside of the new drum with 2 full cans (2 coats) of Rustoleum LeakSeal spray-on rubber, hoping that it would provide grip for tumbling, and protect the paint from flaking off.

Boy, was I wrong: after letting the rubber cure for 2 days (24 hours after each coat), I loaded it up and after 5 minutes the rubber was peeling off.

Has anyone come up with a simple and elegant solution to this? Am I just going to have to sand all the paint off the inside of the drum? (How would I keep it from rusting?)

Suggestions/feedback are very appreciated.
 
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