Flash hole deburring and uniforming... is it the same thing?

[dlouie87]

I'm uncertain about flash hole deburring and flash hole uniforming (new to reloading). Is it the same thing? I saw a lyman flash hole uniforming tool on midway for half the price of the sinclair but I dont want to buy two of the same things.

Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer Tool

and

Sinclair Gen II FlashHole Tool w/ Handle : Gen II Universal FlashHole Deburring Tool | Sinclair Intl

Thanks for looking.

 

[KUSA]

Yes. Get the Lyman. It works great.

 

[Graham]

Can anyone show that spending the time to do this, on good quality brass, has any effect downrange in our sport?

In Benchrest: Sure. But for practical precision rifle why waste your time?

 

[427Cobra]

They are the samething, but the stop for the cutter on the Sinclair is directly above the cutter it indexes off the case web, the cone shape thing is just for alignment, on the Lyman the cone is the stop, and cutting depth is set by it, and case length comes into play, both tools do the samething, but the Sinclair does a better job and is easier to use, but costs alot more.

 

[427Cobra]

Can anyone show that spending the time to do this, on good quality brass, has any effect downrange in our sport?

In Benchrest: Sure. But for practical precision rifle why waste your time?

I only shoot Winchester Brass and it requires everything , Lapua does not need the hole uniformed.

 

[pawprint2]

I don't know if in this sport you can show that it makes a difference down range or not, deburring a flash hole can only be good for your tube. chunks, or flakes of brass flying down the bore, can't be a good thing.

 

[KUSA]

I use Winchester brass and it needs it. They stamp the flash hole out and a lot of times it is hanging on and needs to be removed. I guess if you use that fancy Lapua brass you may not need it. As far as the time goes it just takes a moment to debur a piece of brass.

 

[Danco411]

As stated by KUSA the flash holes are punched out which leaves a not so uniform hole. When you use the drill bit type deburing tool you can feel it catch on the burr as you turn it slowly. Whether it makes a difference or not I have no freakin idea. I usually do it with new to me LC brass because I process it more thoroughly (having to remove the damn crimps). The only other brass I uses is Lapua which as also mentioned is hoity toity and does not need much prep other than sizing and camfer.

 

[Bradu]

I use one on my Winchester brass, Remington and Lapua don't need it.

 

[wilecoyote]

I have the Sinclair only, and on the Sinclair, the cutting end is apt to cause some kind of funneled hole, if not cautiously spaced regulating the upper cone_ I really doubt,being picky, that the funnelling feature can do any good to small primer cases...

 

[oldfatguy]

Never heard of "flash hole uniforming", deburring, yes. The OP might be asking about "primer pocket uniforming". Every brand of brass benefits from primer pocket uniforming. As already stated some brass, Lapua, has a drilled flash holes and no burr to be removed.

OFG

 

[ChrisGarrett]

I use the Lyman tool and it works fine for me. I've also taken burrs off of Lapua 308 and 338LM cases, so they're there as well, but not as frequent as some of the typical commercial brands.

Whether it shows up on paper, or not, is something I've never tested, but I've had some nasty burrs on my flash holes and they can't be helping matters.

Much like uniforming the primer pockets, it's a one time deal that doesn't take much of our time.

Chris

 

[dlouie87]

Thanks for all the quick responses. I'm going to go ahead and get the Sinclair tool.

As for some of you who think I'm confused with the primer pocket uniforming, I'm not. I have a primer uniformer on the RCBS trim mate. I was just curious about the flash hole but I think I got all the questions answered.

I have to do this every time I clean the brass after shooting right?

 

[pell1203]

The flash hole deburring only needs to be done once on each piece of brass. Not after each firing and cleaning.

 

[1lnbrdg]

I keep being suprised by people claiming that Lapua brass doesn't have burrs on the flash hole. They're usually not as bad as LC but I usually see a burr there on more cases than not.

Does it make a difference? It could. Since it's a quick easy fix and only has to be done once, I do it.

 

[buffybuster]

While it feels good to debur the flash-holes, is there any EMPIRICAL evidence to show it makes an actual, repeatable difference in vertical at long range?

How much of case prep has an actual impact on accuracy and how much is for "piece of mind", for the type of shooting we engage in?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

While it feels good to debur the flash-holes, is there any EMPIRICAL evidence to show it makes an actual, repeatable difference in vertical at long range?

How much of case prep has an actual impact on accuracy and how much is for "piece of mind", for the type of shooting we engage in?

Like other 'endeavors' there is an aggregate that has to be considered. Taken solely, each step is probably hard to quantify, but taken as a group of steps, there can be measured gains.

The problem with burrs on flash holes is, is that once you remove them, you can't really go back and do an A/B comparison. I do think that there is a point of diminishing returns, for me at least and that's why I'm not turning my necks and water weight sorting brass. I've done some of those things, but for me, it's not worth the time.

Uniforming primer pockets and deburring flash holes takes so little time and physical effort (with a power drill/Trim Mate) that it's something I don't fret over too much.

Others will obviously not share this thought, but it 'can' be the little things that add up to noticeable gains, is my thought.

Think about it? Why weigh down to .02 of a grain? That's outside the accuracy parameters of most all chronographs, so you're not going to be able to measure that with any certainty, yet people ANALyze over it.

Wet tumbling? Look at the loons rushing out to play with muddy water around electricity. You think that shows up on the target?

People do what they do and we just learn and adopt, or move on.

Chris

 

[Graham]

With everything else the same, the difference in accuracy between brass that has primer pockets 'trued' and factory brass is much less than my own ability to hold the rifle steady and break the shot.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Yeah, Chris. It's MOJO, and yours may not agree with mine. I do everything whether I can document improvement downrange or not.

When I read the first post, I assumed the writer made an honest mistake, flash hole deburing and "primer pocket" uniforming, but he says not?

Then this: "I have to do this every time I clean the brass after shooting right?"
which leads me to believe he may not have the solid grasp of the case prep ritual as we thought. BB

 

[Rob01]

Can anyone show that spending the time to do this, on good quality brass, has any effect downrange in our sport?

In Benchrest: Sure. But for practical precision rifle why waste your time?

I used to do it then stopped and saw no difference in my performance. Everything still sub 1/2 MOA. Same chrono numbers. I shoot alot of factory ammo too which doesn't have this done and also very accurate. I stopped doing it a few years back. Couldn't see the benefit vs time.

 

[buffybuster]

I used to do it then stopped and saw no difference in my performance. Everything still sub 1/2 MOA. Same chrono numbers. I shoot alot of factory ammo too which doesn't have this done and also very accurate. I stopped doing it a few years back. Couldn't see the benefit vs time.

This mirrors my experience. I just couldn't justify the time, especially for brass that is lost during a match, for benefits which I could not quantify. It "might" make a difference but nothing that wasn't swallowed up by all the background noise.

 

[cactusbrew]

I used to do it then stopped and saw no difference in my performance. Everything still sub 1/2 MOA. Same chrono numbers. I shoot alot of factory ammo too which doesn't have this done and also very accurate. I stopped doing it a few years back. Couldn't see the benefit vs time.

Rob do you still uniform your primer pocket after each firing or have you stopped doing this as well? For those who clean with SS media, the pocket comes out clean, so its no longer an issue of getting the burnt soot and carbon out of the primer pocket.

 

[Rob01]

I hit them with the uniformer on the cordless drill but more to clean the primer pocket hole out. That said I am going to test and see if that's needed every time or if it can be done every few reloads and still not effect accuracy or velocity numbers.

 

[sentry1]

Wet tumbling? Look at the loons rushing out to play with muddy water around electricity. You think that shows up on the target?

Chris

Who wet tumbles for accuracy? I use wet tumbling to clean my brass because it's MUCH faster. Especially when cleaning brass that's either range pickups, or just plain filthy from dirty burning factory ammo. I can wet tumbler 2 - 3 batches in the same amount of time as I can do one batch in a vibratory tumbler.

Rob do you still uniform your primer pocket after each firing or have you stopped doing this as well? For those who clean with SS media, the pocket comes out clean, so its no longer an issue of getting the burnt soot and carbon out of the primer pocket.

Is it even necessary to have the primer pockets exceptionally clean? I square off the primer pockets the first time I reload a case, but after that, it goes into the tumbler, and when I pull it out, I start loading as-is. Some are spotless, some have a little bit of reside left in them.

 

[2Shots]

Who wet tumbles for accuracy? I use wet tumbling to clean my brass because it's MUCH faster. Especially when cleaning brass that's either range pickups, or just plain filthy from dirty burning factory ammo. I can wet tumbler 2 - 3 batches in the same amount of time as I can do one batch in a vibratory tumbler.



Is it even necessary to have the primer pockets exceptionally clean? I square off the primer pockets the first time I reload a case, but after that, it goes into the tumbler, and when I pull it out, I start loading as-is. Some are spotless, some have a little bit of reside left in them.

I quit uniforming the primer pockets, I felt they loosen up quick enough anyway so I just debur the flash hole on remington and winchester but not the lapua.

 

[Unknown]

Every lot of Lapua brass for my 6.5 Grendel has needed to have the flash holes uniformed as they come with two different diameters of flash holes. I discovered this when I was poking walnut shell media out of the flash holes. My tool would pass through some flash holes, and not pass through others.

I have not tested whether I get better groups from uniforming the flash holes, but I figured anything that gives more consistent ignition can't hurt. If the flash varies from round to round because of the different diameter of flash holes, my ignition may also vary.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Who wet tumbles for accuracy? I use wet tumbling to clean my brass because it's MUCH faster. Especially when cleaning brass that's either range pickups, or just plain filthy from dirty burning factory ammo. I can wet tumbler 2 - 3 batches in the same amount of time as I can do one batch in a vibratory tumbler.

I don't know how it's faster and you're certainly not doing more cases than I'm doing, unless you're running something like Bigddawg's unit with a 12" drum and most people aren't.

I tumble for 60-90 minutes using an 18yr old Dillon CV-500 using some walnut and Dillon polish. it takes me about 3 minutes to pour the media/brass into a RCBS media separator and separate the brass for immediate sizing/depriming.

Sorry, but you're not even close to beating that with wet tumbling, so I can't fathom what you're talking about?

Brass gets spotless wet tumbling, that's a given, but you're waiting and waiting. Plus wet tumbling is messy, really messy and you're certainly not loading that brass up right after it's done.

Chris